View Full Version : New preparedness challenge
Spinning off the food stockpiling thread and also after what we've seen happening in Japan. I'd like to propose a challenge. Can each of us list 3 meals we would make from stockpiled food during an emergency? The only stipulation is that in this thread, it is assumed there is no electricity or gas so the only meals could be "No cook".
I'll start
With Mayo, olives, tuna and crackers dried fruit I could make a tuna salad and serve with crackers.
With corn and beans and canned salsa and crackers or corn chips I could make a tex mex dip.
With canned or powdered milk and cereal I could make cold cereal or granola.
These are simple meals, but we are hearing the people in Japan saying they have no water or food. In this situation what could you serve for meals with what you have? I'd love to hear and learn. I'd like to hear ideas so I can get ideas for things to plan.
Why would you be so unprepared as to be unable to cook if the power and gas is out?
I can cook just fine on my wood stoves, or the grills, or on a cook fire, or on my camping stoves/ovens, or with my Thermette.
Bae, you are welcome to start your own thread with your own criterion. This one has parameters. You can contribute, or not. I'd love to hear more of your ideas in a different thread.
I'm sorry, your parameters specified "no electricity or gas so the only meals could be 'No cook'", and I was simply objecting to your logic, as many people can cook without gas or electricity.
By all means, drive on with your cold crackers.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_8bdYFKk3OW4/TX7rkKiZxXI/AAAAAAAACXQ/cR8KzFsEX6U/s640/119-1927_IMG.JPG
Well, now, Bae, you are just being rude. You could have started another thread. I was interested for my own reasons. A what if scenario. You insist in disrespecting that simple parameter. As I have said, I would be really interested in reading another thread based on parameters like yours. But instead of doing that, you simply disrespect mine. You would rather engage in the argument in this thread than discuss your very viable ideas and options in another. Thanks for your rudeness. If there is a moderator, please remove this thread. I was actually looking for some viable, legitimate input and not to be trolled.
Tiam, I'm sorry if you took it that way, and read things into my posts that simply are not there. I shall sprinkle my responses to you in the future with little :-) icons if it will make you happier.
Your initial post had an serious issue from a "preparedness" or reality point of view (as I suspect many simple livers may live, well, off the grid already.). Being able to cook food and boil water is an important part of preparedness, and with minimal planning you can arrange easily to be able to do so.
Cheers. ;-) :-)
Note: I wrote my response before reading all of the above exchange, so please forgive me if I've crossed any lines.
My RL emergency plan includes a solar oven or bbq, and not so many uncooked things. I've also made a simple, small 'cat-can' cooker (from an empty small cat food can with holes punched in the side - very cheap and easy to make) that uses denatured alcohol (about $12/gallon but that would last a long time) from HomeDepot for fuel. Surprisingly efficient and fast to cook with.
As to things that aren't cooked, I guess I would open canned soups and eat them cold. And second, maybe nuts and dried fruits, or any fruits and veggies from the yard/garden. I'd also snack on cheese which can keep at room temp for some time. I formerly had crackers in my 'reserves', but they went rancid so I tossed them.
Tiam, if you have no electricity, I would worry about the mayonaise unless you were opening a new jar and using it once. Same perhaps with the salsa, though I don't know if that needs refrigeration or not.
My main stored foods really are rice and beans and masa for tortillas, and canned soups and oatmeal, plus dried fruits and nuts. And chocolate. :)
It's not that I don't have an imagination to think of ways to cook, but I have no issues with using jarred mayo out of the cupboard, or jarred salsa either. I actually buy the mexican brands of salsas in little 8 oz one serving cans.
If I was going to think of foods in an emergency to be cooked....well, then this would be a different thread wouldn't it? I could have created a thread for how will I cook when the power is out with my emergency stockpile, but I was trying to think beyond that. But I mention it because many in japan are doing this right now. They have no access to water, electricity, gas, fresh foods, or even cooking outdoors in solar oven over a hibachi. I notice a lot of people make assumptions about what is available to others because it's something they would have themselves.. It could very well be available to you or someone but not to another. So, in that vein only, I'm trying to use my imagination for what I could make, till a rescue comes. If I was unable, for whatever reason to cook, because my house was flooded and I'm living in the attic but I've got some emergency food I suppose I could make a fruit ****tail. I don't like canned fruit, but still. I could make instant pudding for a psychological lift.
Yes, Bae, so I understand. I understand you perfectly. I wonder if you could say the same about me? the request was simple enough. Like I said, I would LOVE to discuss the things you are talking about in a DIFFERENT thread.
I feel sorry and frustrated that I started this and would like it removed if no one wants to participate.
So, in that vein only, I'm trying to use my imagination for what I could make, till a rescue comes.
If I found myself in a very dire situation, I doubt I'd be thinking in terms of meals, but rather eating whatever I could find that I could chew. Clean drinking water would be more important than food, so that's also a major consideration. If I had access to the inside of my house, I'd also then have access to my very primitive cooking tools too, and I'd use them if the wait was going to be long.
I don't much like canned foods, but I do keep some. As well as several yard-sale non-electric can openers. So all I'd need was a spoon.
I've been storing limited food and thinking through many basic survival alternatives for a few decades because I do live in wildfire and earthquake country.
IMO the most important thing to stay alive in a major crisis is to be flexible and to be able to think on your feet. And have really good luck.
If I found myself in a very dire situation, I doubt I'd be thinking in terms of meals, but rather eating whatever I could find that I could chew.
This is why I keep a large pile of these guys handy:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_8bdYFKk3OW4/TX8IdKXgOFI/AAAAAAAACX4/4_j0hvicxTM/s640/%5BUNSET%5D.jpg
If I lived on an island that could be cut off for significant time, I'd have different preparations. And a lot more. Here, however, unless something horrific happens (in which case everyone would be toast), our 'disruptions' would be only a few weeks at worst. Except for maybe a serious pandemic or some other disease like the black plague.
My short-term 'fast foods' really are nuts and dry fruits because I eat them anyway. I just make sure to keep extra around. And sometimes granola bars. Any real emergency would be a time of survival, not necessarily well-rounded meals. :)
Canned salmon, protein bars, MRE's (not all mixed together! lol)
Oh, I really don't like canned food at all and don't use much. That's why for me, even thinking of it in terms of 'preparedness' is such a challenge.
If I lived on an island that could be cut off for significant time, I'd have different preparations. And a lot more. Here, however, unless something horrific happens (in which case everyone would be toast), our 'disruptions' would be only a few weeks at worst. Except for maybe a serious pandemic or some other disease like the black plague.
I wonder if a challenge thread is the place to post opinions as to potential situations.?
Canned salmon, protein bars, MRE's (not all mixed together! lol)
I have never had canned salmon. I think I occassionally keep granola bars around at times.
Oats are good. You can eat oats raw mixed with applesauce or some things.
ApatheticNoMore
3-15-11, 12:14pm
Yea, hate most canned foods. Home canned foods are better and I don't mind them, but like all those glass jars are going to survive an earthquake. :) But I suppose it doesn't hurt (of course all glass is kept in lower shelves and drawers where it is unlikely to hurt anyone should the big one come).
Nuts I could do, I eat nuts. I eat oats too. I do eat canned tuna fish sometimes. I suppose almond butter and peanut butter I eat and could keep more around. My, that's not much ...... BTW: I have a lot of canned goods but I really don't use them so they just get old.
By the way is anyone prepared to cut off their arm should the need arise?
(ok, ok, being silly)
loosechickens
3-15-11, 12:25pm
I remember reading once that if you had to evacuate immediately and could throw only three items in your house of an edible nature into your bag, throw in rolled oats, jar of peanut butter and some dried milk powder, and you'd be good to go for quite awhile on complex carbs, protein and fat.
I actually agree with whoever it was who said "water", because you can go many days without food, but only a short period without water.
I've heard you can live on molasses and rolled oats. Throw in loosechickens dry milk and peanut butter, sounds like a feast to me. (But I love rolled oats (uncooked), I used to sneak into my mom's cupboards and help myself to a handful to munch on.)
My current cupboard is stocked for my situation, in which I'm fortunate to have the ability to cook with wood or solar oven.
BUT in terms of this challenge, I always keep about four jars of peanut butter and 25 pounds of oats around. Canned fish and home-canned fruit. Chocolate. Raisins. This thread made me think it might be good to stock up on aseptic or powdered milk (or rice/soy/oat milk).
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_8bdYFKk3OW4/TX7rkKiZxXI/AAAAAAAACXQ/cR8KzFsEX6U/s640/119-1927_IMG.JPG
If I'm ever caught in a natural disaster I hope I happen to be visiting bae at the time! I'll bring a jar of SIchuan bean paste and we can have spicy roasted fish...
lhamo
If I'm ever caught in a natural disaster I hope I happen to be visiting bae at the time! I'll bring a jar of SIchuan bean paste and we can have spicy roasted fish...
+1
Oh, ya, I forgot. I keep extra jars of peanut butter too. And I always keep extra bottles of oil and vinegar for salads as a prep. (I grow a lot of lettuce.)
As mentioned in another thread, I've had to evacuate 3 times over the years for wildfires. The last couple times I just grabbed a bag of craisins and a bag of almonds. (Plus the cats and some kibble) And there's always water in the car.
I mentioned the cats, and each time I've evacuated, they were very docile and totally cooperative about being put in their carriers. Guess they could tell I was serious. I was.
If I kept extra jars of peanut butter around I would be one fat and happy critter -- that stuff is like crack to me! :)
The lines in Japan at the moment are for water and toilet paper. I guess that's a never go bad item.
loosechickens
3-16-11, 12:21am
I remember reading somewhere that in natural disasters, hurricanes, etc., the first two things that sell out are toilet paper and beer.........
Lol! Well I've seen the lines for TP. This is day 5. The stores are empty. I am trying to look at myself and ask myself, if I was going to be without food for more than a day or so, what should I have? In the Japan scenario it looks like two weeks is going to lucky. So, I change my view. Maybe I should just start acting as if I won't have an income and need to be able to live on what I have in my home because I won't have money to go to the store. Or in a disaster, there won't really be a store to go to. Like this case. These people don't have paper supplies, water, or basic food. So, I'm starting there. If I have to survive for 2 weeks or more, I don't want to have to just chew. If I had something to chew if I had nothing I'd be very lucky. But if I think ahead, I dont' have to be lucky. I just have to be smart. So, my challenge is that I don't like too much canned food, so planning for an extended time and having foods I wouldn't mind is the challenge. I started out with 'no cook' because for many of those in Japan, that is exactly the issue. Living on nuts for 2 weeks will work, but I could do better. I'm no fan of canned milk, but I do keep it and use it in cooking. It could do well in a pinch for drinking (with water added) or adding tea. Making hummous and eating it with crackers would be better than a stale granola bar. (I hope) I'd be happy with Peanut butter if I had to. Since I have to worry about the rancidity factor, I'd probably buy hydrogenated. And honey. honey doesn't go bad. So, for today, I bought another gallon of water in high quality plastic.69 cents. One more thing to add. Two boxes of crackers on sale. I might just eat them, but they might go towards creating that extra p adding by buying a few more next week. Oil, because it is a valuable commodity for cooking, first aid, even fuel if desperate. So, I'll start stock piling that.
So, my next no cook meal? Peanut butter and honey with crackers of course!
Also look at whey powder and/or meal replacement powder (more of a "complete" macronutrient profile than whey alone)
Of course, I would need to be eating whey regularly so that I could rotate it. I tried some powders, but I really can't stand them.
Italian white bean dip would make a great meal. I think after a while having something nice could be a great morale lifter. Chocolate comes to mind.
Chocolate is definitely a good morale booster for me :D
There's been a run on iodized salt here in China -- people have the mistaken idea that it will help prevent radiation sickness, which we are not at risk of (prevailing winds blow EAST people....). Anyway, I took some inspiration from this thread and in my latest "calm down" message to my grantees suggested, among other things, that they stock up on water and food they can eat without cooking (as most live in urban apartments and would not have cookstoves, etc. handy) and also mentioned the bit about TP.
I have decided that if the plume comes this way, I am going to buy/eat copious amounts of potato chips. If the world is going to melt down, there's no need for me to diet anymore, right? Might as well go out happy.
lhamo
Just remember that you don't have to cook most foods for them to be food. i.e. pasta can be chewed, oats can be eaten "raw"....very few foods have to be cooked (i.e. beans) to be digestible. Water is important. You don't REALLY have to have toilet paper--paper towels or napkins or in a pinch corn cobs or towels or the Sears Catalog...
Here are the essentials: air, water, shelter or clothing to maintain body temperature, food (doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, humans can survive on weird-ass food for a long time, google (diet) if you doubt this.) Love. Humans need love.
Just remember that you don't have to cook most foods for them to be food. i.e. pasta can be chewed, oats can be eaten "raw"....very few foods have to be cooked (i.e. beans) to be digestible. Water is important. You don't REALLY have to have toilet paper--paper towels or napkins or in a pinch corn cobs or towels or the Sears Catalog...
Here are the essentials: air, water, shelter or clothing to maintain body temperature, food (doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, humans can survive on weird-ass food for a long time, google (diet) if you doubt this.) Love. Humans need love.
Well, I'd consider that the option after months of crisis, not day 5.
To be honest, if you are in a severe crisis, as in crisis where you stand to lose something significant in your life, or there is great danger for yourself and others, you won't give a **** about what you have to eat. Your body will get hungry, but anything will do. Taste nor what is 'healthy' simply.. wont.. matter.
I am a foodie, and good food is of great importance to me day in and day out. But a few years ago when I had to evacuate from a raging, fastly approaching wildfire, and really thought my home was a goner, food was the last thing on my mind.
I did take some with me because I am efficient, had the time, and my mind does think ahead. But when my body got hungry, I knew I should eat, but it honestly did not matter one whit what the food was. Flavor or enjoying the food was not the remotest issue - I ate to keep my strength, to keep at my best functioning level, not to savor the food.
When you are in survival mode, you are 'on alert', and your mind prioritizes different things. If you are really hungry, even if you generally don't eat them, canned foods will seem just fine. And in a real emergency, often there simply will be no choice. You will have either what you find, someone gives you, or what you have on hand.
If you are talking about a long-term emergency, and you are just waiting it out for a few weeks, and not in constant fear mode, then taste and planning might be an issue. If you are 'sheltering in place', then you also should plan on being able to cook things for the duration. It's good to plan ahead, but circumstances will be very different than they are while we are all comfortable and warm and sitting in front of our computers.
Here are some pics of the circumstances for having to evacuate. Trust me... the quality nor taste of food did not matter for days even after the danger passed. (The firefighters did a Heculean task and none of our homes were damaged.)
The moutains on fire.... it got much, much closer....
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=229&d=1300476869
Evacuating... the neighborhood leaving.. This was not at night - the smoke made it very dark.
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=228&d=1300476839
Looking away from the mountains which were ablaze. The same view as my current avatar..... only very smokey.
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=230&d=1300476889
I remember being in the Santa Cruz mountains during one earthquake. We didn't have heat or electricity for days. Now, in this situation, it is a crisis, and back then I would really have appreciated having a few days worth of no cook recipes and ingredients on hand. It was bad enough to be freezing without being reduced to 'Just' chewing. We were not 'down' in the earthquake, but we were definitely affected by it. I think the idea is that should you need it, if you plan to go to the store, chances are the shelves will be bare. But my thought on this thread if that if you don't really have a contribution but want to talk about crisis in general, there must be other threads to do that in instead of food and recipe thread.
loosechickens
3-19-11, 1:28pm
Tiam....if you've been around for awhile on these forums, you have got to know that threads take on a life of their own, wander far from the original intentions of the OP, and it does no good at all to get your knickers in a twist and try to get people to do differently, because it just isn't going to happen. Trying to control the direction, tone or even subject of a thread after it's been started is a "doomed to fail" proposition. Sad, I know, for any OP who wants to discuss a specific thing, but it's just how life is.......
for just one example....go to the Public Policy forum and check out the thread about the NPR kerfluffle because of the misleadingly edited sting operation of a political activist. that thread has gone from that subject, into pros and cons of having NPR at all, into prison policies in this country, and the last time I looked had veered into border control on both the Mexican and Canadian border.
There IS no way to keep a thread on track. There just isn't. Human beings are messy, organic, emotional creatures, with axes to grind, ideas to express, subjects upon which to digress, and all the hand wringing in the world will not help, because threads will be hijacked, wander all over the universe in subject matter, yet the system manages to get lots of good information out to people and many, many people here find the forums worth reading every day. Just as this post itself is digressing, hijacking the original subject, etc.
I understand your frustration, and am just trying to tell you that it's to no avail, so you are just stressing yourself without hope of success. ;-)
Perhaps we could create some mechanism to allow a poster to start a thread, and then delete all new posts on it not to their liking?
Moderators do have the tools to split/divide threads into two, but that's a lot of work for an unpaid job. Not to mention many posts do not divide well, esp if someone discusses two diverging topics within one post. Generally the original poster just has to live with what people want to talk about, ...or try again in a new thread. ;)
Moderators do have the tools to split/divide threads into two, but that's a lot of work for an unpaid job. Not to mention many posts do not divide well, esp if someone discusses two diverging topics within one post. Generally the original poster just has to live with what people want to talk about, ...or try again in a new thread. ;)
All true. I would add that some unpaid mods prefer to let threads take their natural (meandering) course partly to avoid the outcry if we were to determine the division of a thread in a different fashion than the posters. Aka...its not worth the risk.
loosechickens
3-22-11, 1:03pm
plus......after all, isn't this exactly what happens to conversations in real life? Whenever a small group of people are talking, over lunch, say, the conversations veers from one subject to another......if you look, there's usually some sort of thread where you can see why a comment elicited another that veered the discussion off into a new direction, but that's just how human beings are, and one of the biggest sources of frustration in the world for anyone is to try to change human nature.
and as Gregg so nicely said, no matter WHAT the moderators do, we'll manage to offend or displease some segment, so often, our tendency is just to let well enough alone and spend the time instead wading through the hundreds of spam registrations very day, trying to pick out the diamonds of real, honest people who want to join our forum to add to our discussions as opposed to sell us Viagra, pornography, time shares, "real" Rolex watches, etc. from every point on the globe, practically........
o.k. we've probably hijacked poor Tiam's thread enough for now......back to what to have if you have no way to cook in an emergency and still want to eat something other than chewing on dry rolled oats.....(not all that bad, actually, if you're really hungry)
I understand your frustration, and am just trying to tell you that it's to no avail, so you are just stressing yourself without hope of success. ;-)
If a poster is so frustrated at responses in their thread that they don't feel are sufficiently on-target that they *report other participants to the moderators*(!!!), as happened to me in this thread for suggesting the use of alternative cooking methods, I humbly submit that in the sort of preparedness event that is envisioned in this thread, they are going to be well out of sorts.
Perhaps disaster preparedness should start with attitude. Gonzales' wonderful study "Deep Survival" might be of benefit.
Yesterday I mixed rolled oats, peanut butter, chocolate chips and dried cranberries. Let it set up for a while and voila! New-preparedness-challenge certified AND really delicious! :)
winterberry
3-22-11, 11:08pm
I just looked over the items in my pantry and thought about what I would throw into my reusable grocery bags if I had to evacuate in a hurry. I could live a very long time on what I have, provided I remember to throw in the can opener. Some eating utensils would be useful, too. I'm thinking you wouldn't have to cook pasta. Just mix some up with a can of tomatoes and after awhile it would be soft, don't you think?
But I live on a hill in a southeastern PA suburb and doubt if I will ever need to do this. Then again, Three Mile Island isn't too far from here....
Yes, there's bug out circumstances and holed up at home circumstances. The cat stove might be handy, because, yes, i think the noodles might need some cooking. They can be cooked with the tomatoes.
But ramen is ok uncooked.
Some of the granolas that have dried fruit and nuts/seeds
or well balanced granola bars
Note that either of these are also good cooked if you have or get access to cooking equipment.
Prepackaged well balanced GORPs or you can make your own
http://www.backpacker.com/may_2001_food_reader_gorp_recipes/skills/2046
Canned meats/fish in sizes such that your family could eat the can in one meal.
Whole grain crackers with seeds and nuts.
Canned nuts
Peanut M&Ms
Pemmican or jerky if you can find some without chemical additives
Naturally fermented pickles or small jars of pickles/relish/chutney that need refrigeration that your family could eat in a day.
Powdered drink mixes to add to water
Single serving condiment packages that don't need refrigeration.
A producing garden--good for earth quakes or if you are cut off due to nearby disaster. Nearly mature root crops may be useful in tornados or hurricanes. All may be unusable if a flood goes over the actual garden depending on flood water contents.
Consider all of this too in light of if you can't wash any dishes. In that case individual granola bars are better than a box of granola cereal for example.
We are huge food stockers. We have 30 gallon drums with flour, sugar, corn meal, rice, pasta, seasonings, beans, and coffee. We also stock up on bleach for water purification and sanitation.
toiletries
water
canned meats
veggies rotated each year from the garden
first aid supplies
meds that we take every day
Also, we use only open pollenated garden or heirloom seeds so we can save seed each year for the next.
Thats the things that come to mind right now, tho I am sure there are more lol
Gardenarian
3-24-11, 6:36pm
We buy soymilk in those containers that don't have to be refrigerated, so that would be something I could use.
I keep a lot of nuts and dried fruit around.
Don't have much in cans....I would be hard put to make a proper meal once the fresh fruit and veggies had spoiled. But I do have peanut butter, and oats, so I guess I'd be okay for a while.
We have a small emergency supply in case of earthquakes, just enough to last for three days. (Protein bars, water, medications, dog food.) (I guess humans could eat the dog food too :~))
I recently learned that you can drink the water that is stored in your hot water heater. I think that is important to remember!
We are huge food stockers. We have 30 gallon drums with flour, sugar, corn meal, rice, pasta, seasonings, beans, and coffee. We also stock up on bleach for water purification and sanitation.
toiletries
water
canned meats
veggies rotated each year from the garden
first aid supplies
meds that we take every day
Also, we use only open pollenated garden or heirloom seeds so we can save seed each year for the next.
Thats the things that come to mind right now, tho I am sure there are more lol
I haven't gone as far as stocking in huge amounts. I think I'm leaning towards an inflation hedger and enough water for 3 days. I feel like I would be hopelessly inept regarding adequate consumption and rotation of such supplies.
loosechickens
3-25-11, 12:05am
Your comment, Gardenarian, made me think of this. Remember that you can also drink the water in the tank of your toilet......having water to drink is more important than flushing the toilet, and in emergencies, often people don't even think of the water in the toilet tank as drinkable, yet it's fine and perfectly usable.
Also, although perhaps high in sodium, if you are relying on canned goods, they often are packed in liquid. LIQUID. That means water, even if it is high sodium water.
As for gardens, if my garden was intact and approachable, it would depend on the time of year. This time of year? A few turnips, broccoli and bokchoy.
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