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ctg492
5-6-15, 9:15pm
How does this work when in line if there is no one behind you to pay for, yet the person infront paid for you?

Am I a bad person because I do not like this?

Zoe Girl
5-6-15, 9:27pm
Just accept it graciously, maybe there will be a chance to pay it forward in a totally different way that you are comfortable with. Maybe just accepting and letting them do a good thing is fine. If they have an expectation of you or the store has an expectation for you then that really is their deal.

ApatheticNoMore
5-6-15, 10:06pm
Hmm I was like wait people in front of you in line actually pay for you? Your joking right? Where does this happen, at what type of place? Are you particularly pitiful looking? (as in homeless looking or something)

I always thought pay it forward was a metaphor (as in give a dollar to the homeless, it helps your karma, what goes around comes around or something) and this was some kind of take on the metaphor.

iris lilies
5-6-15, 10:15pm
How does this work when in line if there is no one behind you to pay for, yet the person infront paid for you?

Am I a bad person because I do not like this?i think that's great! How fun! This doesn't,t mean that you have to pay it forward immediately, or at all.

Lainey
5-6-15, 10:32pm
I had it happen to me once when I went through a fast food drive-thru on my way to work during Christmas week. I was so surprised when the cashier told me that the person in front of me had paid for me I just said "thanks!" I realized later I could have just paid my own bill plus a little more and kept the "pay it forward" going.
But in practical terms I'm not sure how that works either: does the originator hand the cashier a $20 and say use that to pay for as many people behind me as you can? Then the cashier just has to manage that I guess.

Tussiemussies
5-6-15, 11:18pm
You can always do an act of kindness!

ctg492
5-7-15, 6:04am
That is kinda my question on if the till has a spot for the $ that some hands them to use for the following cars in a drive thru. Not sure of the legality of that really, ok is that digging to deep but an honest question.


In asking where this happens, Starbucks is big on this just google it more articles then can believe on the topic. Yes I embarrassed to say went to Starbucks last week. I was grumbling to my self that the coffee drink was $5 than the cashier says Paid by the car in front of you. I was not thinking on the phone and shocked as I do not frequent here ever, so I said Thanks and drove on. Then came home and googled and understood kinda what was happening, so I felt cheap that my response was not to pay the next bill.


My actual thought was I don't need charity, nobody does that goes to Starbucks!

Then yesterday at Tim Hortons I got a coffee and and can of coffee $24. The Cashier says the man in front paid. I say No I got a can of Coffee? Oh he paid for that too. So I paid the bill behind which was $4.50. Again second guessing as I should have given the total of my bill and the cashier hold it? IDK. But again, WHY? These places are Luxury places to spend money, not in need. I read it is easy to do this vs paying in a check out line where the meeting would be face to face and there may be words said.

I just don't like it, sorry. Give to a charity, give to a family that appears in need at the store, help a homeless dog or cat, but not someone spending wasted money at an over priced coffee shop.

sweetana3
5-7-15, 7:06am
You are not a bad person. I agree with ctg492. ANYTHING or ANYONE that tries to guilt me into spending is a NO. It loses its "goodness" and becomes "following the herd".

If you want to do something for someone, do it on your own, whether direct or thru your own chosen group, and keep it quiet. Doing good works is good for the soul.

cdttmm
5-7-15, 7:44am
Doing good works is good for the soul.

This. It's called the "do good, feel good" phenomenon and is quite well researched within the field of positive psychology. At the core, is people committing random acts of kindness. We feel a greater boost in positive emotion when we do something for a stranger, randomly, when we do it as a premeditated act. Hence, the pay it forward actions that have been referenced above.

If someone in front of you in line pays your bill, then my suggestion is to accept this random act of kindness as if a friend had given you a gift card for Starbucks/Tim Hortons/the grocery store/wherever and that is how you just "paid" for your purchase. If this were truly the case, you wouldn't feel compelled to run out an buy a gift card and give it to another friend. Any feelings of guilt that you have about "accepting charity" are your own to wrestle with because that is never the intention of people who are committing random acts of kindness.

What to learn more about random acts of kindness that people are performing around the world? Go here: https://www.randomactsofkindness.org/

catherine
5-7-15, 8:23am
Here's the idea:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nwAYpLVyeFU

razz
5-7-15, 8:29am
It is a way of life with lots of little things that we can do for one another. If someone is looking for change at the till, simply hand over the missing items

iris lilies
5-7-15, 8:58am
...
I just don't like it, sorry. Give to a charity, give to a family that appears in need at the store, help a homeless dog or cat, but not someone spending wasted money at an over priced coffee shop.

haha, I understand, I DO see you point now.

Yes, it would make me uncomfortable for someone to pay for my $24 can of coffee. But a $5 Starbucks, as a one time thing, would be a nice surprise. I guess, for me, it's the "surprise" element. One time over a few years=cool. If it happens all of the time, as a matter of course, no.

If something that was once a random act of kindness is now considered an obligatory act, that's too bad. And if those who don't play are considered stingy, that is stupid.

But that may not be the intent of those providing the pay it forward act. OP, let us know if you encounter more of this.

Float On
5-7-15, 9:53am
I don't like the current "pay it forward" where you are guilt-ed into paying for the next person so Starbucks can say "we had 1230 people participate in 'pay it forward' until some 'jerk' said 'thanks' and drove off without continuing the 'pay it forward' movement."
It use to be someone thought "I'm going to do something nice and pay for the next customer" and then the next customer said "Wow! Thanks!" and their whole day looked better and maybe 1 day or 3 weeks later they did something nice for someone else at a totally different place.

Also, I don't like "Random act of kindness" day". That doesn't seem random at all.

This doesn't make me a scrooge. I do nice things all the time for people, even if it's just a smile.

ctg492
5-7-15, 11:37am
I don't even want to return to the drive thru coffees because of this. Gosh I must have a terrible spot in me :(. Made me dig inside to understand why I feel this way honestly. A month ago a homeless man had his bike stolen from this Tim Hortons he goes to daily. TH and our small wonderful Local bike shop each donated and gave him a new Trek. I thought WHY we have a ReCycle bike shop the low income can take a repair class on bike maintanence and get a free bike. But whatever good advertisement. A comment in the paper was Hope they gave him a lock. I saw the bike at Tim Hortons that morning and NO Lock just sitting where it always sits, that bothered me. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.

I donate to the causes I feel good about, one is in my budget as I feel so strongly about it. Over priced coffee not one I guess and the guilt factor involved. SO I will go back into my bubble now and drink my over priced home brewed coffee.

catherine
5-7-15, 11:47am
But a $5 Starbucks, as a one time thing, would be a nice surprise. I guess, for me, it's the "surprise" element.

If something that was once a random act of kindness is now considered an obligatory act, that's too bad. And if those who don't play are considered stingy, that is stupid.

But that may not be the intent of those providing the pay it forward act. OP, let us know if you encounter more of this.

I agree--it's too bad when a simple act of kindness evokes negative feelings of guilt and resentment. ctg, I'm not saying you are WRONG to feel the way you do--but just wondering why? I don't like managed, contrived feel-good acts, but nice surprises are rare out there in the community in this day and age.

Float On: I always hated the George H.W. Bush "random acts of kindness" campaign. THAT'S an example of a contrived movement. However, I feel that in general, kindness is contagious, so if we are the recipients of kindness, it will usually be replicated in one way or another without angst and analysis and in spite of ourselves. I think that's the point.

I think it's nice now and then to abandon "tit for tat" thinking: "If you give me something I am OBLIGATED, and that sense of obligation places a burden on me." Why do we feel that way? Why can't we just say thank you?

ToomuchStuff
5-7-15, 12:52pm
How does this work when in line if there is no one behind you to pay for, yet the person infront paid for you?

Am I a bad person because I do not like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTm-iYUpm4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxB43PxasGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDcm0nlYQs&list=PLLs4VMxXPwaPAtfYaJIb6U7OQgOYPmH6n


First, lets start with the bad person question, no your not. Pay it forward, is a concept that took a random act of kindness (what it was called before and term still used), and tried to expand it (via a movie). It is about trying to do something for someone, who can't do for themselves, where a random act of kindness is simply that, a random act. When they start mixing the terms they dilute the meaning and the purpose.
As Larry said (my late friend from the last video), it is more a selfish act, because of the feelings you get out of it. (and why people do things in area's where people can provide for themselves, selfish reasons)
The second video, explains how "pay it forward" is supposed to work.
When you watch the last video, make sure you watch number 2. This is the true purpose/hope behind the whole pay it forward/random act of kindness thing. I knew who Larry was for 20 years, I only got to actually know him, his last five. He only came out towards the end, to get others to try to do what they could and become other Santa's. In the same way Warren Buffet is trying to get those of wealth to give away their wealth in order to inspire and provide opportunities for others.

ApatheticNoMore
5-7-15, 2:09pm
If I hear someone is doing something out of some ludicrous psychology movement that's a reason to make me hate it right there. But yes give a $1 to the homeless :P (help a few homeless people and consider it paid back I'd say - then at least your latte went to people who really need it so to speak) But ... it builds community? Yea maybe, but as only atomized consumers can conceive of it :P

ApatheticNoMore
5-9-15, 3:57am
Spend more at Starbucks ..... spend more at Starbucks ....

I saw this article today (my bold):

"Imagine walking into a coffee shop, ordering a cappuccino, and then, to your surprise, being informed that it has already been paid for. Where did this unexpected gift come from? It transpires that it was left by the previous customer. The only snag, if indeed it is a snag, is that you now have to do the same for the next customer who walks in.

This is known as a “pay-it-forward” pricing scheme. It is something that has been practised by a number of small businesses in California, such as the Karma Kitchen in Berkeley and, in some cases, customers have introduced it spontaneously. On the face of it, it would seem to defy the logic of free-market economics. Markets, surely, are places where we are allowed, even expected, to behave selfishly. With its hippy idealism, pay-it-forward would appear to go against the core tenets of economic calculation.

But there is more to it than this. Researchers from the decision science research group at the University of California, Berkeley have looked closely at pay-it-forward pricing and discovered something with profound implications for how markets and businesses work. It transpires that people will generally pay more under the pay-it-forward model than under a conventional pricing system.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/may/07/how-friendship-became-tool-of-powerful

Ok, it's not that good an article overall, but those dynamics of "pay it forward" are interesting. Consumerized altruism. And yes these things become movements (positive psychology etc.) seem horrible as movements. But as a one off thing I'd find someone paying for my coffee charming. But it's so one off to me I wouldn't even know the "rules" were to pay for someone else's, I'd just think "what nice people, how nice of them" and go on my day thinking "cool ....".

I thought forward in the term "pay it forward" was some temporal thing not literally forward in line, and then it's just saying "you get what you give", which is true, to an extent. But what you give is often no money being spent.

rosarugosa
5-9-15, 6:58am
We've done this sometimes at tollbooths, so at least that doesn't have much in the way of a consumerism component. I've never done it in a store, and I don't buy coffee out or frequent drive-throughs.

cdttmm
5-9-15, 7:15am
Ok, it's not that good an article overall, but those dynamics of "pay it forward" are interesting. Consumerized altruism. And yes these things become movements (positive psychology etc.) seem horrible as movements.

ANM, the first time I let your comment slide. But now I feel I must clear something up for you.

Positive psychology is not a movement.

Just like psychology is not a movement.

Or cognitive neuroscience.

Or behavioral economics.

Or decision science.

Or physics.

These are all academic fields grounded in scientific research.

In case you didn't realize it, the article that you linked to (which was actually really great, by the way) references a variety of scientific research.

catherine
5-9-15, 7:45am
Spend more at Starbucks ..... spend more at Starbucks ....

I saw this article today (my bold):

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/may/07/how-friendship-became-tool-of-powerful



Ok, it's not that good an article overall, but those dynamics of "pay it forward" are interesting. Consumerized altruism. And yes these things become movements (positive psychology etc.) seem horrible as movements. But as a one off thing I'd find someone paying for my coffee charming. But it's so one off to me I wouldn't even know the "rules" were to pay for someone else's, I'd just think "what nice people, how nice of them" and go on my day thinking "cool ....".

I thought forward in the term "pay it forward" was some temporal thing not literally forward in line, and then it's just saying "you get what you give", which is true, to an extent. But what you give is often no money being spent.

Well, this is the heart of the Gift Economy. I am on a Facebook group of >8,000 members who are all believers in the gift economy. One of them is a website designer, and he took a leap of faith and started working under the premise that he would provide the work and let people pay him if and whatever he wanted. He wound up getting more work than he could handle--and more money than he had ever made.

ApatheticNoMore
5-9-15, 1:52pm
ANM, the first time I let your comment slide. But now I feel I must clear something up for you.

Positive psychology is not a movement.

I don't know the idea to get everyone to pay for everyone's else coffee rather than their own seems a bit like a movement (and then it mostly enhances the stock price of SBUX apparent, since everyone ends up paying more :laff: ). As a one off thing it's nice, but I didn't know there were whole memes about paying for the person in back of you and it obligating you to pay for the next person.

Positive psychology may be academic, I think the end result of a lot of these social trends injected into the social body is mostly to make everything a mood crime (like a thought crime). And a gift as a gift is one thing, a gift in order to start a $$$$ business, just sounds nothing like giving a gift at all and everything like using a marketing gimmick. Yea I think there are people that glom on to movements with far more altruistic intentions and ride them all the way to the bank. Is there a term for that type of behavior? There should be.

Oh I guess I got a bit annoyed with the article when it spent a long time pretending human beings altruistic nature was some brand new idea. And it was kind of rambly.

Gardenarian
5-9-15, 3:35pm
I think we should come up with some more inventive ways of "paying it forward." I don't go out for coffee, but I think bringing your own mug would be a good thing to do. I feel I would rather "pay the Earth" than give money to someone who probably doesn't need it. (At Starbucks? Seriously? There are way better charities.)
Picking up litter is a nice thing to do.
Driving courteously - letting the other driver go first when it's questionable - that's really nice.
Smiling.
Living with the assumption that the people you come into contact are decent and well-meaning.