employees who don;t speak enough English

[Zoe Girl]

I have employee issues, of course everyone does ya know. Here is the one that is going to kick me out of the liberal camp however. I have a staff member who does not speak very good English. It is causing multiple problems. For one I keep hearing that these certain girls are bad kids and always in trouble. I have been spending more time subbing at this school because someone quit and I am not having a problem with them. One of the ways they get in trouble is that they 'talk back'. Okay I can see them being mouthy but when I have spoken to parents (2 parents and a grandparent) they have all offered the same thing, the girls do not understand the teachers because of heavy accents and not speaking English well enough. These parents are frustrated because they also do not speak Spanish and have a hard time understanding. I have staff members at this same school who are uncomfortable because the main teacher and 2 TA's speak in Spanish so much. The supervisor before me told them to speak in English but I guess I have to make that clear again (yes I have brought this up before). Today we were doing our great science kit that we spent money on to be used all year (it has not been used at all) and my Spanish speaking staff couldn't follow the directions and kept on messing the kids up in the project.

So I am going to offer some contacts for English lessons to one and tell her she has to be able to write all her paperwork in English next year. I have been the understanding boss (okay I got this staff midyear and didn't choose) but knowing that kids and parents are upset and arguments are being caused by this takes away that understanding nature. So then I just get so frustrated myself. It has been over 20 years that I have been frequently in situations where even people who can speak English just don't and it really is awkward. I am usually the person who understands more of what a foreign language speaker is saying than most because I have a background in French and can read a lot of other signals and I think I am burned out frankly. Besides I could never get a teaching job at this school because I don't speak Spanish.

So the main points to staff are:
* you must speak English unless you are talking to a parent who needs Spanish
* paperwork needs to be in English even if you need help to write it, I am available but it must be completed in English.
* if a child or parent says they cannot understand then get someone who can speak to them, we do that for our Spanish speaking families and so we need to do the same for English only families who need a good English speaker

Sound fair?

[lhamo]

I think you are right to raise this issue, but I would be very careful about how you do it. It could very easily be perceived as an issue of racial or cultural discrimination rather than promoting good communication all around. Some thoughts:

1) Point out to ALL staff that it is not appropriate for adults to be having their own conversations -- in any language -- around children or parents during work time. Stress that this is everyone's responsibility and part of presenting a professional, learning-focused image to those who pay for the services (those who pay tuition as well as the funders).

2) Stress that you/the program see bilingual/bicultural skills as an important asset to the program, and something that you want to support across the board. Suggest that everyone try to make an effort to develop their skills in their less strong language/culture. Use this as an opportunity to break up the Spanish-speaking clique that seems to have developed between the main teacher and those two TAs -- split them up into different groupings so that they aren't working together all the time. Try to make sure that you have native English speakers and native Spanish speakers working together Stress that in lesson situations advance preparation is essential and it is fine to co-teach with whoever is the native speaker of the dominant language among the kids in that group leading the lesson, with the co-teacher providing support for kids who speak the other language. Be sure people have time to prepare, especially new materials that might not be familiar with them. I have pretty strong Chinese skills and I am a good teacher, but if you asked me to lead a science demonstration that i hadn't had time to prepare in advance I might well struggle, too.

3) Stress the importance of open communication and inclusiveness. Again, in line with point one, point out that people sometimes assume the worst when they are left out of a conversation because they don't speak the language. It doesn't create an atmosphere of teamwork and cohesion if some staff are always breaking off to have conversations that others don't understand. When people do have breaks, etc. it is natural to want to connect with the people you feel closest to culturally, but everyone should make an effort to be friendly and include others in the conversation wherever possible. Translating takes time and effort, but it will help everyone get to know each other better and can also build everyone's language skills.


I think there may well be some cultural things going on too with different expectations about how kids should act -- that might be something to explore as a group as well, at least getting everyone's expectations and cultural frames on the table.

Ultimately you want to send the message that you want to help all your staff become the most effective professionals they can be. There is a particular problem here with some linguistic and cultural differences that are impeding mutual understanding and effective communication, and making your work with the kids less effective. Those are challenges, but nothing that can't be surmounted, especially if you can work as a team.

I hope this doesn't sound too namby pamby and idealistic. I can imagine how hard this will be. But I fear that if you come out with a focus on the negative and the "you must not" approach, you are going to create a really antagonistic situation with these individuals, who already have a definite clique dynamic going. Whereas if you can show that you respect and value the unique skills they have and what that means for other kids in the program who might not be native English speakers, you are in a much better position to build a team-based approach and do some really innovative things.

lhamo

[fidgiegirl]

lhamo said it well. When I read your OP my alert sirens are going off!! Do not outright prohibit them from speaking Spanish!!! I am not a lawyer but I think it is actually illegal - a violation of civil rights. I would consult with your boss and if possible with school district counsel if this is truly your only alternative.

But as lhamo pointed out I think you do have other alternatives.

Why are the Spanish-speaking staff together? Do you have a high population of Spanish-speakers in the area, so it's just natural that there will be a lot of employees who are native speakers? Or were they assigned together because they were in working some kind of bilingual program?

I personally think with the "mouthy girls" the issue isn't the adults' quality of English but rather respect for both parties. We also know that respect toward the children plays into their respect for us and that regardless of language children can tell when they are disrespected. Even native English speakers can say all the right words and students know there is not respect present in the relationship. So I believe that issue possibly transcends language. Still, no matter the language the adult is speaking, "mouthy" is not ok.

I think just to eliminate the use and hearing of a foreign language in this setting isn't doing the students a long term favor. Our nation is a diverse one and they might as well start to learn to deal with that now rather than thinking that as a majority language speaker they will be able to just push other language speakers out for their own comfort.

Assuming paperwork is records like incidents reports or daily reports that are retained for program purposes, it sounds realistic and practical to require it in English. If it's something like personal lesson plans for their own use, well, then who cares?

I'm pressed for time this morning but really wanted to respond and hopefully I haven't been too brash. This issue deserves very careful consideration and consultation on how it should be handled. Not to be too dramatic, but a wrong move could make it much worse. I would give lhamo's suggestions very serious thought.

[Zoe Girl]

thank you both, I only have a minute but I think i need to be careful about letting my frustration of feeling left out of conversations even as the boss and the many years in the past when it wasn't a benign little conversation get the best of me. We do have a high Spanish spekaing population here and it has been a reason to hire people who have Spanish, I have at least one staff at all my sites who are fluent in Spanish. However I am feeling at this site between my staff and the day school which focuses on bilingual staff there is a different dynamic. Right now there is growing tension between the English only speakers who come to pick up their children and hear only Spanish in the room.

Good point about preparation Lhamo, I have been asking them to use the science kits for 2 months and they have not planned or used them at all. I think by just coming in and using them hopefully they will continue to use the kits we purchased when I am not there to help plan or lead the lesson. My staff still acts surprised when I say that they are supposed to do a science lesson every week.

[Zoe Girl]

Oh yeah, and it is relevant that my least English staff member was in the 'almost came to blows' meeting I had recently. Whew. The parent said the staff was close to her and pointing a finger in her face and the staff said she was lying and then both stood up ready to fight. I think we have some cultural differences here.

[Bastelmutti]

Excellent advice already given - I second it. Having grown up with another language at home (and raising my kids w/ it now), I can attest that I would feel somewhat bent out of shape by someone telling me to speak English if I was having a private conversation, even at work, say at lunch. As Lhamo says, though, in the professional environment - if Spanish is not part of the curriculum - then, yes, English should be the norm. Maybe the previous super having said "Speak English" without qualification could have caused a hostile atmosphere?

I also don't think there is anything wrong with suggesting extra English-learning opportunities as part of an evaluation of performance: communication is part of the job, so if communication is being hindered by a lack of language skills, then that's a performance issue. And it sounds like paperwork coherently written in English is a requirement, so I don't see any problem in enforcing that either. If an English native is producing incomprehensible reports due to bad grammar and writing skills, but they need to fill out paperwork as a requirement for the job, they should be called on it, too.

For what it's worth, my kids are in a Spanish immersion program and the staff does a great job of speaking the "appropriate" language at the "appropriate" time. "Appropriate" is hard to define, though - I am not sure if your school is bilingual, if there is a bilingual strand within the school, or if ESL is taught separately? For instance, in my kids' school, our teachers will speak Spanish to my girls in front of me when they're giving instructions, even though I don't understand, but that's part of the immersion process. Many events will have an announcement in Spanish and an announcement in English. The teachers speak to the parents in the language in which they feel comfortable.

Good luck with this - it's a tough one!

PS Maybe another way to integrate the Spanish-speaking staff better and provide some insight to the English speakers who are picking up their kids & hearing Spanish would be to do some Spanish (I'm assuming Mexican?) activities - Dia de los Ninos (Day of the Child celebration), cook a food together, learn a song, etc. Might bring people together a bit & indicate that the other language and culture is actually valued as a resource.

[Bastelmutti]

3) Stress the importance of open communication and inclusiveness. Again, in line with point one, point out that people sometimes assume the worst when they are left out of a conversation because they don't speak the language. It doesn't create an atmosphere of teamwork and cohesion if some staff are always breaking off to have conversations that others don't understand. When people do have breaks, etc. it is natural to want to connect with the people you feel closest to culturally, but everyone should make an effort to be friendly and include others in the conversation wherever possible. Translating takes time and effort, but it will help everyone get to know each other better and can also build everyone's language skills.

I think this is a very valuable point.

[KayLR]

+1 with the above. I remember some years ago a huge flack over some bilingual staff who would "switch" to their native language when someone walked past them in certain situations. Not cool.

[Bastelmutti]

Another point I thought of - You describe the English speakers as feeling uncomfortable about the Spanish spoken. It would be essential to pinpoint WHY they are feeling uncomfortable. Is it that there is a communication barrier or that misunderstandings are happening due to the English skills of the employees? Or is it that they are simply unaccustomed to hearing other languages spoken in public and are getting used to that? Makes a big difference in how you approach the issue.

[Bastelmutti]

+1 with the above. I remember some years ago a huge flack over some bilingual staff who would "switch" to their native language when someone walked past them in certain situations. Not cool.

Yeah, we usually try to make it less obvious than that... KIDDING! ;-)

See, this situation may have also been a misunderstanding or a situation of the English speakers feeling generally uncomfortable with languages they don't understand. If not, very uncool, I agree.

[bae]

I once worked at a small-ish company, here in the USA, where several of the founders and key management staff were French.

They'd speak French amongst themselves, even in the presence of English speakers, even in meetings with the English speakers. They'd switch to French often when you'd walk by.

I found this quite rude and offputting.

Especially since I've spoke French fluently since I was 10. A fact I never thought to mention while I was working there.

Oh, the things I heard...

In a later job, I found that many Japanese engineers assume gaijin don't speak a word of Japanese. Ooooops.

[KayLR]

Yeah, we usually try to make it less obvious than that... KIDDING! ;-)

See, this situation may have also been a misunderstanding or a situation of the English speakers feeling generally uncomfortable with languages they don't understand. If not, very uncool, I agree.

No, it was not a misunderstanding. It was pretty obvious.

[lhamo]

I actually deal with this at work sometimes, but I'm the one in the middle. I work mostly with native Chinese speakers, and I am pretty strong in the language and have no problem using it to discuss work. So when we have programmatic discussions, 9 times out of 10 it is in CHinese when I am with local staff. But I have colleagues at the Embassy who don't have strong Chinese skills, so when they are involved in the meetings we usually speak in English. But I often feel that my Chinese colleagues are not fully expressing themselves in those meetings, or at least not being as candid or insightful as I know they can be when speaking Chinese. So sometimes I will interject somethign in Chinese, even just a little question to ask them to clarify or elaborate on a point, and then they will really open up -- and I'll do a quick translation for my AMerican colleagues so that everyone feels involved.

I have had other situations where I am working with teams where not everyone is bilingual, and sometimes during the break I will chat with people in Chinese, especially the ones I don't know as well. It really helps to break the ice and have people feel more comfortable. But I always try to make an effort to bring the non-Chinese speakers into the conversation, too -- even just saying "oh, we're talking about the weather" can reassure them that you are not talking about them, and get them involved.

I really love my own office, because everyone is bilingual and we all feel comfortable switching back and forth between languages. And there is no cliquishness related to language/cultural background.

And I agree with the comments that people need to try to get used to hearing and understanding accents at a young age. I went to an international school to finish high school, and never really found accents to be a problem. I was stunned when I returned to my state university and took my first class with a foreign TA. He was Italian, really sweet, but had a pretty strong accent. NOt incomprehensible by any means. But some people in the class insisted they could NOT understand him at all. They made it really hard for him. I think it was probably more that they couldn't understand the subject (statistics) and took it out on him. It is really easy for this kind of thing to degenerate so whatever you can do to encourage better mutual understanding and cooperation that doesn't privelege one side or the other, the better.

bae, your story is sad and funny. Kind of surprising with French speakers. I overhear people talking about me in CHinese all the time, but that is because they just assume no laowai could possibly understand them. Sometimes they are speaking in a dialect I understand, and when I interject something in dialect you should see their jaws drop...

lhamo

[Bastelmutti]

I once worked at a small-ish company, here in the USA, where several of the founders and key management staff were French.

They'd speak French amongst themselves, even in the presence of English speakers, even in meetings with the English speakers. They'd switch to French often when you'd walk by.

I found this quite rude and offputting.

Especially since I've spoke French fluently since I was 10. A fact I never thought to mention while I was working there.

Oh, the things I heard...

In a later job, I found that many Japanese engineers assume gaijin don't speak a word of Japanese. Ooooops.

That is clearly rude and unacceptable. But I had to chuckle at your response... :devil: (don't we have that other devil smiley anymore?)

[redfox]

Language is a part of who we ARE. It's one of the ways we identify with our culture of origin. If you choose to ban that part of someone, the meta message is that their full self is not welcomed at their job. Is that really the message you want to send?

You have a choice: be punitive or be supportive. Punitive will get you disrespected, cause the other to shut down, and ultimately unravel relationships. Supportive will get you stronger relationships, more cooperations and get you closer to your overall goals of great teaching.

Offer your staff support via assistance for them with their language skills, and set a reasonable goal that they can reach for over time. Instead of "you must", talk with the staff about the hope that they will achieve proficiency in English with parents by X date, and invite them into the goal setting. What help do they need to reach this? what is a reasonable time line? How shall you set up measures of success?

Treat people decently, and as adults. This isn't about "the liberal camp", whatever that is. It's about being civil and collaborative to get to your end goals with decency, respect, and good relationships.

[Zoe Girl]

Thank you all, this has been a very good discussion and I was really nervous about bringing it up. I know that it is very easy (especially when you don't know me in real life) that some of us are just uncomfortable with other languages. Actually I think my primary English speaking staff is very comfortable with different language speakers and our area is racially diverse which has not been an issue.

So I have a practiced talk in my head that includes that i appreciate that we have bilingual and Spanish speaking staff to better serve our population. The parents are our customers even though we are paid for by a grant. They have the choice to use our services or not. My very best site out of 4 has 70 students and 30 on the waiting list, we have one fluent Spanish staff person and many families who need this. However the staff speaks English unless there is a need with students or family. All of my schools are at least 50% Spanish language. I think that the issues at the other site are more than just language. It really is that I walk into the room and everyone is speaking Spanish and they do not switch to English to talk to me. I have worked at schools with 14 languages so I am comfortable with speaking with families and then having a family member translate to another for better understanding, then translate back important information. So my goal is to ask for some sensitivity to the issue from my Spanish speaking staff. I am not generalizing but I have had many jobs with Spanish speakers and i picked up some, and what was said in my earshot that they thought I could not understand was bad (like the French story). This is not uncommon (and not limited to Spanish at all). I think I can share that nicely with my staff to explain why some parents and staff would like to have more in the common language. The kids are young and emotional and have their own trauma as many of our kids do, so hearing people speak in a language they don't know, then the staff will laugh, and then often the English speakers are getting in trouble if they question what is being said.

[Reyes]

Zoe, any chance you and your english speaking staff are willing to learn spanish?

[bae]

Zoe, any chance you and your english speaking staff are willing to learn spanish?

It seems to me that part of the problem Zoe was mentioning was that the customers of the business, the parents and children, didn't speak Spanish.

If interacting with English-speaking people is a required part of the job, the staff needs to be able to do that. And if the business' forms and records are maintained in English, the staff needs to be able to fill them out properly.

It's pretty simple. The employees need to learn sufficient English to fulfill the job requirements, or they need to find another job.

[Reyes]

My misunderstanding. I thought Zoe said that many of the children and their families spoke Spanish as their first language.

[rodeosweetheart]

It sounds to me like you are having several problems with the employees that have more to do with attitude than with languages spoken. If you have an employee getting into a shouting match with a parent, then you have a different problem on your hands, managerially speaking. If you have employees talking smack about you publically, you have another problem. Is there a way you can address these problems more directly?

[Zoe Girl]

Yes we do have Spanish speaking families who are very happy that we have Spanish speaking staff, however they still do want their children to learn and practice English as I understand it. And we have families who speak no Spanish and they are feeling excluded.

Um yea Rodeo, you said it. I do have more than one problem. The parent that we had come in and talk actually stood up to fight and one point and my staff member was just as fast. I had to stand up between them to stop it. I was very proud that we ended much more positive than that however the parent pointed out that the staff rolls her eyes at the parent and we assume she would do this to the child as well. At this point I am very short staffed at this site so I am just going there many days and spending a lot of time. I talked this through with my supervisor just so she would know what was happening and then got the message to wait and see what HR says. I should have just talked to staff and checked in afterwards honestly. I hope today I can get somewhere with my supervisor/HR or I just need to go deal with it anyway. I was going over yesterday when I had a staff member with an emergency and had to sub.

[Tenngal]

For several months I've had to work on the phone about once a week with someone who is orginally from Iraq. At first I could only understand a few words, although it has gotten a little better, I 've often wondered why being able to communicate in English is not a job requirement. It is a problem and I dread our weekly conversations.

[sweetana3]

Speaking English and communicating in Enlish are often different. Indians and Scots speak English but the accent can cause a communication problem. We had a travel program with subtitles for the Scottish person while they were speaking since there was not enough time to figure out the accent.