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Ultralight
7-5-16, 10:02am
Yesterday evening my significant other (who is black) and I went to a small lakeside town for some perch and walleye dinners.

We went to the restaurant and she was the only black person there. The town is very white, with a few Latinos in the shadows.

But the town is a popular place for tourists to stop in -- for food or to do lake-related activities.

My significant other, who I will call "T" said she felt like a number of older white folks were giving us mean looks. I ignore this on the rare occasion it happens. It bothers her more though.

Then a black family pulled into the restaurant parking lot. They were dressed a little bit on the urban side. Though the grandma and grandpa were dressed in what looked like church clothes.

Anyway, I am not paying much attention because I am slamming some delicious perch.

But in the corner of my eye in the parking lot I see a little kid, probably about 10 years old, from this black family go running around a car.

T says nonchalantly: "I think she is mad or something..."

Then I see the dad, who is huge -- like linebacker size -- go tearing after her. He catches her between cars, towers over her, and strikes her several times on the head while yelling at her. She is cowering under him and trying to cover her head with her hands to little avail. After about 30 seconds the incident is over, but the little kid is crying, and looks like the strikes her father dealt her certainly hurt.

I quickly glance around the restaurant and see a handful of other people looking at this incident. They avert their eyes, paint over their shocked and upset expressions, and go back to eating.

What would you do?

iris lilies
7-5-16, 10:48am
I wouldnt take on a linebacker. And its too bad the little girl's family didnt think enough of her to protect her.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 11:09am
I wouldnt take on a linebacker. And its too bad the little girl's family didnt think enough of her to protect her.

He was her family, perhaps her dad or stepdad.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 11:33am
He was her family, perhaps her dad or stepdad.
There was a group of family members, at least thats what I got from your description. Tacit approval from them says a lot about my theoretical success in stepping into the middle of this.

i will say that in this situation it may be better for a woman to approach the linebacker than for a man to do it.

During one of many culture clash episodes in our neighborhood's history, my petite blonde female friend regularly approached people who threw trash out of their cars onto the street in front of her house and asked them not to do that. It is common for people to pull up to our park, open their car door, and throw an accumulation of trash onto the street.

Her ladylike presence and lilting Irish accent coupled with a very politely expressed request often shocked them into compliance.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 11:36am
Yes, there was a group of family members. You read correctly. I just wasn't sure I explained very clearly at first.


Also: That trash dumping is just horrible and kind of wacky.

catherine
7-5-16, 11:43am
This thread reminds me of the John Quinones TV show of the same name. In fact, they just had a segment on a litterbug in Portland. If you're not familiar with the show, the "litterbug" was an actor with the show who just sat on a walkway bench in Portland where people were walking/jogging and he threw his trash on the walk. The camera would catch responses by the onlookers--some acted just the way your Irish friend did, IL. Some got mad and called him names, many walked by. One man called the cops.

Then John Quinones and the crew typically will come out of hiding and approach the people who responded to the wrongdoing and asked why they acted the way they did. It makes you wonder what you would/should do.

Other segments have been public emotional abuse of children (child actors, mom actors), or scenarios where people witness a man slipping a date rape drug (supposedly) into a woman's drink.

Frankly, if I were in that parking lot, I don't know what I would do--but unfortunately, unless it was more than a disciplinary slap, I mostly likely wouldn't do anything other than stare disapprovingly. I have, however, called Child Services before when I suspected child abuse, so it's not like I always turn a blind eye.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 11:54am
...it was more than a disciplinary slap

It was and it was obvious.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 12:10pm
Rev UL, What was your gf's take on this sitch?

ApatheticNoMore
7-5-16, 12:14pm
I don't know if I'd do anything, but the only thing really to do is call the authorities or something. Thinking one should take on a linebacker oneself is just silly. They thing is while at least it is doing something, I don't actually see much good in say the cops showing up (it could escalate but what is more likely to happen is nothing is done as it's a domestic dispute and the cops don't really want to interfere in how you raise your kids, so brief talk and people are made more angry). See that family needs a social worker but ....

Ultralight
7-5-16, 12:28pm
Rev UL, What was your gf's take on this sitch?

Well, if I tell you what her take on it was, then I basically have to tell you what all happened.

When I saw it happen I, without thinking, said aloud: "That M-----F----- is beating his kid! This is B---S---!"

I wisely caught myself before I got up to say something, as we were dining on the patio right there, along with other folks.

I said to T: "Call the cops. Call the f------- cops!"

T said: "I am not calling the cops. You call the cops!"

Around this moment the incident stopped. The dad turned away and started walking into the restaurant. The kid followed warily behind by several steps crying.

I had T write down the license plates. I scooped our leftovers into the to-go boxes. Then I went into the parking lot with T and used her phone to call the cops.

I reported exactly what was seen and described the people involved.

Then two minutes later the cops were there.

T said that one reason she did not want to call was because she thought if a black lady reported a black man beating his black kid then the cops would just ignore it.

But my white male privilege made the cops respond fast.

catherine
7-5-16, 12:34pm
How did the cops know you were white when you called? Or, did your gf assume that once they got there, and you told them you were the one to call, they would take it seriously as opposed to if she had done the same thing? Is it also possible that gf was afraid that onlookers would consider it to be a "black issue" if the triangle was black kid/black parent/black caller?

In any case, that's really sad, but unfortunately believable.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 12:40pm
How did the cops know you were white when you called?

T says I have a "very white-sounding voice," which I'd say is true.


Or, did your gf assume that once they got there, and you told them you were the one to call, they would take it seriously as opposed to if she had done the same thing?

Maybe, she did not say though. We left the area once the cops arrived. It all transpired very quickly.


Is it also possible that gf was afraid that onlookers would consider it to be a "black issue" if the triangle was black kid/black parent/black caller?


Again, maybe. Who knows? T did not say much about the incident after it all happened. She may have been concerned that the cops could think we were part of the family or something, is that what you are asking?

catherine
7-5-16, 12:46pm
She may have been concerned that the cops could think we were part of the family or something, is that what you are asking?

No, more that it would heighten the possibility of prejudicial attitudes among the onlookers.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 12:54pm
No, more that it would heighten the possibility of prejudicial attitudes among the onlookers.

Good question.

CathyA
7-5-16, 1:08pm
Did the cops do anything when they got there?
I think I would have yelled at the guy.......no matter what his size. But I tend to become a warrior when my adrenaline goes up........whether that's good or bad......

Ultralight
7-5-16, 1:11pm
Did the cops do anything when they got there?

Not sure...

CathyA
7-5-16, 1:14pm
I wanted to add something sort of off-topic. We tend to go to this local restaurant on many Saturdays for dinner. It's mostly a white crowd, but there's always a couple blacks. Everyone is usually well-behaved. When DH and I walked in (you're supposed to get your own seat), We saw 2 tables with 4 older black people each. They were being very loud, so we sat a few tables away, so we could hear each other better. But after they got their food, they quieted down. They weren't being obnoxious.......just loud. Anyhow.......I found it very interesting that as others (whites) came in, they headed towards that area, and then stopped and sat further away. Just an observation.
But.....I can sort of understand your girlfriend not wanting to be associated with the abusive black man. On the other hand, I feel that people like that black man maybe would listen more to another black person??
It's a difficult situation, when you're just wanting to have a peaceful, quiet dinner. But I do think I would have yelled at him.....at a safe distance.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 1:17pm
I generally sit away from loud people, regardless of demographics.

I think I probably could have gotten hurt if I confronted the linebacker.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 1:29pm
...

But my white male privilege made the cops respond fast.

Oh BS.

Were that true, this incident (see below) discussed all over my neghborhood last week where a white man was attacked by a group of 30 black kids would have brought the cops faster than the half hour it took for them to get there. And then they dissed the guy's veracity.

This guy is active in the community garden down the street feom his house and he volunteers in dog rescue. He is a solid citizen.

The Ferguson Effect is real.

OP, I know that you love to devolve into to race baiting posts to ease your boredom at your government paid job. Since Ive lived in the epicenter of black/white racial tension for 25 years, your posts are not new info or thought provoking, they are simply provoking.

https://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/crime-car-keys-crime-police-lights-road-street-web-generic.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=400&h=225&crop=1 (http://fox2now.com/2016/06/29/man-recovering-after-unprovoked-attack-by-group-of-boys-3/#thumbnail-modal)
ST. LOUIS (AP) _ A 44-year-old St. Louis man is recovering after an unprovoked attack by a group of boys.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://bit.ly/293HnXW) reports that the victim was unloading groceries from his car Saturday night when he was suddenly attacked, punched in the back of the head and punched in the eye.
The attack happened in the city’s McKinley Heights neighborhood. The victim says the boys were about 10 to 15 years old.
Police say they don’t have any suspects. The victim refused medical treatment.

CathyA
7-5-16, 1:30pm
Just by yelling at him without being too close? This is to ua's last post.

bae
7-5-16, 1:34pm
What would you do?

How was the perch? Was there cobbler?

Ultralight
7-5-16, 1:36pm
Just by yelling at him without being too close?

We were already close. The patio seating we were at was like 5 yards away from him.

And have you ever been chased by someone?

bae
7-5-16, 1:37pm
And have you ever been chased by someone?

Have you ever killed someone with your bare hands? Felt them struggle to the last, as life escaped them?

Ultralight
7-5-16, 1:38pm
How was the perch? Was there cobbler?

The perch was excellent! I cannot remember if there was cobbler on the menu.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 1:40pm
Oh BS.

Maybe, maybe not.


Were that true, this incident (see below) discussed all over my neghborhood last week where a white man was attacked by a group of 30 black kids would have brought the cops faster than the half hour it took for them to get there. And then they dissed the guy's veracity.

This guy is active in the community garden down the street feom his house and he volunteers in dog rescue. He is a solid citizen.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. Is there a link to a news article about the incident?


The Ferguson Effect is real.

What is this? I am not familiar.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 1:52pm
Maybe, maybe not.



I am sorry to hear about your friend. Is there a link to a news article about the incident?


What is this? I am not familiar.

i added the news article to my post above. There was a predictibly hot Nextdoor discussion about Todd's attack with most people being reasonable but as it heated up, the gun discussion came up and one hand wringer cried (paraphrasing) "and how would you feel if your 14 year old son was killed by a gun for simply pushing a man to the ground. " There are not enough eye rolls in the world for me to express my distain for this keyboard social warrior.

This attack took place 1.5 blocks from where DH and I regularly hang out for hours, working in our gardens. The attack engendered a realistic discussin of what happens if the gang threatens one of us. i think stay outside of the fence, stay out in the open, he thinks go behind the fence and slam the gate. But I think the little m-----f------- could easily climb the fence, so it is safer to be out where cars are driving by and people can see and call 911. Of course in that neighborhood that would be hit or miss.

As far as The Ferguson Effect there is this thing called Google...try it. You will find the Ferguson Effect right up your alley, providing lotsa grist for the race baiting mill.

JaneV2.0
7-5-16, 2:06pm
I think you did the right thing. Local police respond to domestic violence all the time and people aren't shy about reporting it, either.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 2:06pm
Oh BS.

Were that true, this incident (see below) discussed all over my neghborhood last week where a white man was attacked by a group of 30 black kids would have brought the cops faster than the half hour it took for them to get there. And then they dissed the guy's veracity.

This guy is active in the community garden down the street feom his house and he volunteers in dog rescue. He is a solid citizen.

The Ferguson Effect is real.

OP, I know that you love to devolve into to race baiting posts to ease your boredom at your government paid job. Since Ive lived in the epicenter of black/white racial tensin for 25 years, your posts are not new or thought provoking, they are simply provoking.

https://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/crime-car-keys-crime-police-lights-road-street-web-generic.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=400&h=225&crop=1 (http://fox2now.com/2016/06/29/man-recovering-after-unprovoked-attack-by-group-of-boys-3/#thumbnail-modal)
ST. LOUIS (AP) _ A 44-year-old St. Louis man is recovering after an unprovoked attack by a group of boys.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://bit.ly/293HnXW) reports that the victim was unloading groceries from his car Saturday night when he was suddenly attacked, punched in the back of the head and punched in the eye.
The attack happened in the cityís McKinley Heights neighborhood. The victim says the boys were about 10 to 15 years old.
Police say they donít have any suspects. The victim refused medical treatment.

I am very sorry to hear about what happened to your friend.

Before you get too deep in criticizing me I want you to know that Dr. Bob was my friend when I lived in Toledo.
http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2009/06/30/Vigil-praises-Robert-Brundage-as-indelible-influence.html

IL, please read the article. I read the one you posted and all the comments too.

JaneV2.0
7-5-16, 3:15pm
I just finished a book by Jill Leovy, called Ghettoside (I would probably have called it "Ghettocide," because that was the gist of it, but the title referred to a particular unit of LA police detectives.) It followed detectives as they undertook the difficult task of working in a virtual war zone where witnesses were hard to come by--due to their understandable reluctance to put their lives on the line to testify--and where police had historically looked the other way, tacitly encouraging violence.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 3:25pm
I just finished a book by Jill Leovy, called Ghettoside (I would probably have called it "Ghettocide," because that was the gist of it, but the title referred to a particular unit of LA police detectives.) It followed detectives as they undertook the difficult task of working in a virtual war zone where witnesses were hard to come by--due to their understandable reluctance to put their lives on the line to testify--and where police had historically looked the other way, tacitly encouraging violence.

It is reality that middle class neighborhoods get better police coverage because they openly value police presence, they cooperate with police, they celebrate police.

I really do not know what cops are supposed to do in bad neighborhoods where witnesses refuse to cooperate. If the black community doesnt value itself, why would anyone else place value there?

We had a highly publicized black on white crime a few years ago when the "knock out" game was at its height. A gang of black youths beat a white man. They caught the perps, a bystander identified perps, slam dunk court case. Only oops, the bystander later refused to testify. Perps got out to beat and rob again. fortunately in these situations the cops know the perps very well and watch closely for them to slip up and sooner or later, they slip up.

bae
7-5-16, 3:28pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-establishment/my-husbands-unconscious-r_b_10322380.html

Teacher Terry
7-5-16, 6:00pm
Before i read what you did i was thinking get license plate # and then call cops. You handled it perfectly. It is most likely that CPS will be called in to investigate.

iris lilies
7-5-16, 6:02pm
Before i read what you did i was thinking get license plate # and then call cops. You handled it perfectly. It is most likely that CPS will be called in to investigate.
Social,worker in training!

Teacher Terry
7-5-16, 6:03pm
I was a SW at one point in time:))

Ultralight
7-5-16, 6:06pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-establishment/my-husbands-unconscious-r_b_10322380.html

Why this link?

Ultralight
7-5-16, 6:07pm
Have you ever killed someone with your bare hands? Felt them struggle to the last, as life escaped them?

No...

iris lilies
7-5-16, 6:08pm
I was a SW at one point in time:))
No, I mean the Rev UL. He has aspirations toward social work as a profession.

Ultralight
7-5-16, 6:10pm
Terry already done it! :)

Simplemind
7-5-16, 6:15pm
I clearly see an assault with my own eyes. I either intervene and/or I call 911 immediately. I tell them that I will stay as a witness.
Having been the victim of this type of thing I only wish somebody had done the same for me.

Teacher Terry
7-5-16, 6:19pm
IL: I forgot about that.

Teacher Terry
7-5-16, 7:21pm
This story just brought back a very old memory. When I was in my 20's we lived on a dead end street off of a busy st. It was night and I was alone and driving a big old truck. No cell phones back then either. When I get to the corner I see a middle aged man with a trench-coat nicely dressed talking to a girl about 12 while she is crying and backing up. Actually back in the day he was dressed like a plainclothes detective would but the car was kind of shabby. So I back up some and watch. He keeps approaching so I back up more and angle my truck right at the man and open the window and yell "don't touch her." He comes to the window and shows me a badge saying he is a cop and going to give her a ride home since she looks upset. I tell him that if he goes near her I will run him over with the truck, call the cops and sort it out later. I then tell him I will be the only one giving her a ride home. After a little while he leaves and I give the girl a ride home. I am sure a real cop would have called for backup. I was not very assertive when I was that young but I had 3 young kids and all my Mommy instincts just popped into gear. I was prepared to run him over and I think he got that loud and clear.

CathyA
7-5-16, 7:28pm
Good job Teacher Terry!

Lainey
7-5-16, 7:57pm
Before i read what you did i was thinking get license plate # and then call cops. You handled it perfectly. It is most likely that CPS will be called in to investigate.

I was going to say ditto, I'd do the same. Good going, especially on behalf of a little kid.