Weird morality question, sorry it is long

[rodeosweetheart]

Hi, I have a rather weird morality question to get y'alls take on. Here is the situation.

My dad, who is 85, has been diagnosed with stage iv prostate cancer with bone mets and has been told he is terminally ill (by his oncologist.) He is doing well right now with pain and his spirits in general and lives at a distance from me, unfortunately.

About 70 years ago, his brother was killed in WWII. This week, I was at a war museum where a man gave me some information about his squadron that resulted in me finding more out about my uncle and his death. I now have a printed pdf of an account of my uncle's wing man from the war, with an eye witness account of the last moments of his life (his last view of the plane, anyway) and an account of how they found out that he was dead (he was MIA and a body not recovered) and an incredibly moving account of my uncle's last days in England, and this man's memories of my uncle.

My father's family, and especially my father, were devastated by this loss and never recovered from it. My father still cannot talk about his brother with any equanimity, and his parents never recovered.

Do I have any moral obligation to somehow let my dad know of this account?

I feel strongly (I live where they used to live,) that have been getting these "messages", as it were, from the dead. It is all just too weird, that I am finding this stuff out, and all very coincidental,as though I am being led to it.

I can't bring myself to tell my dad any of this and keep hoping he will just sort of say, "By the way, do you have some news of my brother to tell me?"

I know it is ridiculous, I just can't help hoping, the whole thing is so weird.

My dad does not believe in an afterlife, etc., and is sometimes afraid about dying.

I think his brother is trying to help him.

i do not want to upset or hurt my father.


This all started becasue we drove home a different way and a voice said, "why don't you stop at that museum, you're here, you never drive this way, and it's ten in the morning and you have time." By twelve hours later, I had pictures and this pdf eye witness account.

This is driving me crazy. I wish my uncle would just HELP him!

Does anyone have any good advice here?

[loosechickens]

I don't have any idea what "good advice" would be. And I don't have any idea what the "morality" would be. I think if I were faced with this situation, I would give my father this information. He has already been as hurt by his brother's death as he probably can be, and there is at least a chance that having the opportunity to have this "closure" of knowing this information, and perhaps feeling, as you do, that his brother is reaching out to him, might actually be of comfort to him.

My feelings would be that the dangers of telling him would probably be outweighed by the chance for him to have this connection with his long lost brother. But I couldn't tell you or anyone else what decision would be best for you. You know your father, I don't. You know much better than anyone whether this information would be healing for him or cause him more hurt.

I'm a person who believes that nothing really happens by chance and all things are interconnected in some way, which makes things like this easier for me, even comforting. But I don't know if others would see it the same way.

My heart goes out to you to have to make this decision at the same time as you are suffering the impending loss of your father. Cyberhugs coming your way, no matter what you decide.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thank you, LC. yes, exactly, it is the fear of causing him any more pain at this point that makes me hesitate, and yes, it is hard to know if it would be healing or not. Your answer is really helpful because you have summed it all up really well, and I like your point about interconnectedness and you have given me a good framework to think about this. To me it is a matter of morality as in, ' do I have a moral obligation to give this person this information because it belongs to them, really, and not to me, and does it supercede my obligation to shield him from pain.'

Thanks, you give much to think about, and yes, closure is what I would hope it would give him. He struggles with clinical depression and has all his life. He was on antidepressants 2 years ago after a quad bypass and he felt so much better, but I think he has stopped taking them, and stopped going to the psychiatrist who prescribed them. Unfortunately.

Okay, now I'm going to go cry for a while. I HATE this.

[Rosemary]

I don't have any advice, but wish you the best in making and carrying out your decision.

[cdttmm]

I'm a big believer in "things happen for a reason". Tell your dad. If you weren't supposed to, you wouldn't have uncovered this information. Just my opinion.

[Stella]

I would tell him that you have the information and let him decide if he wants to read it.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thank you, Stella, I was thinking that and have drafted an e-mail, now will think about whether to send it.

[iris lily]

Thank you, Stella, I was thinking that and have drafted an e-mail, now will think about whether to send it.

Wait--you are thinking of delivering this news via e-mail?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even the tip "dad I have informaiton about your brother" must be delievered by human contact. Please please do not do this via E-mail.

Call him (he must be long distance from you.)

[redfox]

DITTO. In person. Then you - or someone near to him - can support him in his reactions and emotions.

[JaneV2.0]

I agree with the notion that there are few accidents and also with the idea that his brother may be drawing near. I can see how you would feel a moral obligation to at least put the issue on the table so he can choose whether to read the information.

Speaking of World War II and the afterlife, I'd like to put a plug in here for Soul Survivor, a book about a pilot and reincarnation. Thought-provoking.

[rodeosweetheart]

I hear you, no e-mail. But writing it did give me ideas about what to say if I do bring it up. I would prefer not to do it on the phone since he does not hear well and I do not want to drop something like that on him and my mother without being there. So that leaves in person.

At least if my uncle is drawing near, he is showing up to take care of my dad, which is good news. He always did take care of my dad, always, and that would be very fitting.

[razz]

Another yes to telling your dad. Seniors spend a lot of time in their remaining years reviewing their life, the good, bad and ugly. I don't think that this is the brother but perhaps your dad's mental wish/prayer being expressed to have this issue sorted out. Have no fear that you will bring pain as that has been ongoing most of his life and he may well be revisiting it introspectively seeking closure. It would be very wrong to withhold this info from the family including your dad, IMHO.

I don't see this as a 'moral' issue as this info belongs to the family especially your dad and especially now that he is terminal. He may even doubt that it is authentic so make sure that you have clear proof documented appropriately. You will find the right way to follow through if you think about it, I am sure.

[janharker]

"and my mother" ?? Is your mother, aka his wife?, still living. Talk to her first. She knows him best and can give you guidance.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thanks, Razz, I hear you. jan, my mother is still living and would be very angry with me for bringing this up with him, as she tries to protect him from any upset, and has shielded him (her idea for it, not mine) from my cousin's attempts to get him to talk about his brother with her. My cousin is the only child of my uncle, who died before she was born. (Sorry, this is complicated, I know.) I know she knows of this report as it was her daughter who located this info. My mother has been very angry at my cousin for trying to discuss this with my father, and my father has expressed a desire that my cousin not visit him or discuss this.

After thinking more on it and hearing the ideas here, it is my intention to travel to him as soon as I can and to have the information in hand, and pray that the right opening comes up for the discussion. I thought about this all day, and I thought about whaqt happened when he was diagnosed with cancer--he forbade any of us to talk about it with him, which has made it real hard to get useful info about how he is doing. But I realize it is what he has always done--forbidden the discussion and used denial as a coping mechanism.

Apparently, when his brother died, my grandfather used the same coping mechanism and had a psychotic break, refusing to believe that he had died and talking about him as though he were still living for several years. (Actually, that does not sound like a psychotic break but just a really, really strong denial mechanism.)

Thus I am certainly not going to spring this on him at a distnace, but get myself into a position where I can spend time with him and if I am meant to tell him, then it will come up, and he will want to discuss it.

It is his end of life and I think I will let him direct the conversation. If it is meant to be discussed (which would be why I was given the information, I guess) then the opening will come up.

We have been talking a little about the war because my husband's dad got the distinguished service cross in WWII, and he was interested in learning about that. We have also talked about going to Washington to see the War Memorial, which he says that he does not want to do.

He has at times in his life been suicidal, so I am certainly not going to spring anything on him, but wait to see what he wants to talk about.

I also feel that jane's comment that perhaps uncle was "drawing near" was correct, and I have to realize that if this is so, then this is part of a whole mystical process that is much bigger than me and in good hands, so I can just pray to take my part in it, but not agonize over controlling the process quite so much. That is not my role, so I will see what unfolds here.

Thank you, thank you all for thinking about this and being open to discussing what to do here. I am so grateful for all of your good ideas.

[Karma]

Tell your father that you found some info on his brothers death at a museum and ask if he might like to see it. The next move is his. Good luck.

[Sad Eyed Lady]

I would tell him that you have the information and let him decide if he wants to read it.

This was my thoughts exactly as I read about your situation. I would just gently let him know that you had come into this information and you could share it with him if he wanted. My husband was a little boy (9 years old) when his father committed suicide by putting a gun in his mouth. My husband ran in the house right behind his mom when he heard the noise, (not knowing what it was), and saw this. That was over 50 years ago and it affects him to this day. His family never talked about it to any degree, and now he has questions and so few people who might have answers. I am relating this because sometimes, years after the fact, there comes a time when you wan to know more details.

[loosechickens]

I think I agree with the "telling him that you have information regarding his brother IF he wants to see it", and then leaving it up to him. Because this new information about his lifelong habit of coping with happenings in his life by refusing to discuss them or acknowledge them, may prove to be his M.O., even in this.

Sometimes people just use denial as a way of protecting themselves from things they feel unable to bear, so it really should be his choice as to whether he wants to read the information. You can offer it, but will probably have to leave it up to him as to whether or not he wants to look at it.

What kind of changes my first advice is this insight into the fact that apparently he has been fond of "remaining in denial"
as a coping mechanism for many issues in his life. So it may be that, although he might really find a great deal of comfort by facing this information directly, the habit of a lifetime may be too strong for him to reach out for it.

[domestic goddess]

If your father knows that information about his brother is available and he hasn't asked your cousin to see it, then he probably really doesn't want to see it. Let him know that you have it, and then back off and let him take the next step. If he wants to see it, then he can let you know. If he doesn't, maybe he knows more about his brother than you think...
My dad was much like that. He was an intensely private person, and did what he wanted about such matters when he was ready to do so. Your dad may not be ready until he is closer to death, and may never be ready to know what is in the files you have. He may have written the scenario in his mind, and it may be closer to the truth than any file could be, because he knew his brother so well. Or maybe his brother has been with him at times through the years. You may never know. But I would make the offer, and then leave it alone. He has enough to deal with as it is. Tell your uncle that you tried, and now it is up to him.

[leslieann]

Ahh, this forum has such good advice. And I like that the advice isn't the same....so you get to pick what works for you.

I have an aversion to "shielding" and "protecting" people from information. Information is just information. What people want to do is "protect" others from their own feelings. But doggone it, all we have is our feelings. And most of us can survive our feelings just fine. We only think that we can't.

I support the idea of making it clear that you have learned a lot about your uncles death and would be willing to share it IF he desires. Just bringing your uncle up in conversation will make him present to your father (in his memories) if he's not already there. He may say no initially, and then later, phone you and ask for more information. It may take a little while to get used to the idea of opening stuff up since he's been a person who packs it away. I hope he can be open to your information...it offers an opportunity for such closeness for you and him. Not to mention getting closer to his brother, at least in memory.

How very sad to be so ill and not be "allowed" to talk about it, to be facing death and have everyone pretend that it isn't happening. We spend so much of our lives with our experiences not validated, it seems a shame to go into death that way. It is certainly hard on the family....((((rodeosweetheart)))). I wish you peace in your decision and in your conversations with your father.

Leslie

[reader99]

I would tell him that you have the information and let him decide if he wants to read it.

+1

[Glo]

I agree that things happen for a reason. But, give him the info in person.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thank you guys, so much. This is wonderful advice. I really feel this situation is sorting out, and the weight of the anxiety about what to do has lifted. We spent a long time talkign on the phone yesterday and he wanted to talk about my husband's job (he works in the town where my dad grew up) and my job and my son's upcoming move. All very present oriented, and he sounded stronger and happier the longer we talked. So I know that when we get there in person, the time will arrive if it is meant to be that he wants to discuss this, we will. But it will need to be at a time when he wants to let it in, given his coping style.

A few times on the phone he has brought up these topics that he has forbidden speaking about, so I figure my role is to be very available and let him steer the course of what happens, what needs closure. I also frequently remind him that at any point, he can change his mind about what he wants to talk about, do, help he might wish to ask for, etc.

One of the eeriest things about this whole thing is that one of the pictures of my uncle that my cousin placed on the WWII registry is a picture that had given to his wife. When I clicked on the photo to look at it closer, my uncle had written a message, and there was his handwriting and it said, "I always love you."
Not "I will always love you" or "I love you" but "I always love you." I sort of felt this was a message, too.

[KayLR]

I think since you have been having so many strong feelings about sharing what you have, you should go forward. That being said, I might broach the subject with your Dad carefully, asking him if he had the chance to know more whether he would like to hear something. Then tell him (or not) what you have discovered based on his response. Maybe he's not up to hearing it, maybe he is. At any rate, you'll have it when he's ready.

Edit: Sorry---I just read your last response after I posted. Redundantly yours, K.