Farming suburbia, possible downside?

[ApatheticNoMore]

Does the whole idea of farming suburbia have a downside? Like maybe pest control? :0

I'm referring to a certain vision that sees turning all of suburbia into suburban farms.

Now perhaps I should disclose my personal experience here, I tried to "farm" (ha, by which I mean grow a few vegetables :~)), a suburban lot and rats ate half the produce. Now those whose lot I was farming (ok my folks) were somewhat hoarders, so yes, I know, I know .... Believe me I shall not make that mistake again! :) Live and learn ...

But sticking with the larger issue: to what extent is pest control going to become a serious problem if we really did farm suburbia? But how does this differ from actual farms? Actual farms are not as dense in human population as suburban lots (even though suburbia is not as dense as truly urban living). Heck with big agribusiness in control of all, actual farms aren't dense at all, although small farms are a little denser. Still neither rival suburbia in human density.

[Crystal]

Well, around here the neighborhood cats wouldn't allow a rat population. But I know what you mean. Learning about natural methods of pest control can take awhile. My experience with reclaiming an urban lot so far is that the grass and weeds are winning. Next door my neighbor regularly sprays his lawn to keep the weeds down, and I worry about that spray blowing over onto my vegetable plots. But at least I wouldn't have to worry about the ubiquitous weeds and grasses. Last year I did a raised bed where I laid down heavy cardboard, and then piled on various compost and soil. For awhile, my plants did great. But the surrounding grass seed blowing on the plot eventually won. There came a point where I just could not keep up.

[kib]

Well, part of the problem with industrial farming is that they use vastly more pesticide (and fertilizer) than strictly necessary, which is what's creating a lot of problems with run-off. I'd say individual suburban farmers would use significantly fewer artificial agents per pound of food produced, both because they don't want to waste all that money on excess chemicals, and the NIMBY effect - if you're interested in growing your own food, you're probably also interested in not poisoning your yard or your family. I'm guessing that even if there is more chemical use in an urban area than before, it's still a whole lot less than what's currently used by the ag industry. Perhaps as urban farming becomes more popular we'll see a rise in protective fencing/netting sales, or some sort of incentive for those things?

[Zzz]

Perhaps Animal Control & Health departments could adapt to loaning out live traps for catching rats & picking them up to dispose of the vermin for people. Seems to me that is a good trade-off for having locally grown food.

[Gina]

I do a lot of vegetable gardening and the critter problem is great. I am in a mildly rural part of S.California where it rarely freezes in winter to help control vermin. We have rabbits, ground squirrels, gophers, rats, birds, and raccoons that eat or damage crops. We cant let our cats out because coyotes eat them. In the past when I could, except for birds, lizards and an occasional mouse, my cats were pretty worthless for critter control. Some people have dogs in their enclosed yards, but they can be very destructive to a garden.

This past summer when my first significant crop of apricots was getting ripe, the ground squirrels ripped apart literally half the fruit in 24 hours. Rabbits and rats ate the tomatoes and any sprout of pepper plant that was not enclosed in wire was nibbled. And lettuce? That is covered on all 6 sides w wood on the bottom and wire, and weighed down or the squirrels slip through the top. And birds got many of the blueberries.

Natural controls here are snakes (gopher, rattler, king), hawks and owls, coyotes and once I saw a bobcat. But they don't wipe everything out, and often don't come near the house, so critters remain a big problem.

I trap gophers, but the best thing is for a snake to move in. But sadly nearby laborers often to kill them, or people run them over. Sigh. I have also trapped the above ground critters, and caught 21 bunnies, squirrels and rats with 2 weeks. Then I stopped, and their populations grew again. I don't much like the killing, and won't use poison.

So this coming year I'll try better, more extensive physical barriers. 'Safe gardening' so to speak. I plant some things in plastic pots and sink those into the ground. The roots grow out the bottom. Works pretty well against root eating gophers, but is a pain to dig up at the end of the season, and doesnt work as well for larger plants.

I'll use more low fences around developing things, and hope for the best. It's a real problem here for suburban gardeners, especially in the summer when most of the area is dry, and a green garden is a real attraction. I would really hate to have to survive on just what I grow because of all the critter damage.

It's a continuing battle and humans will always have a hard time getting the upper hand because vermin reproduce quickly, and/or will move into an open territory where there is food.

[ke3]

I also live in So. Cal, but we don't have too many critters other than snails and the occasional possum eating our fruits and vegetables. So I can't give very good advice to those of you dealing with that.

I thought of starting a new thread; but since you're all gathered here at the moment, I was wondering if any of you "neighbors" might tell me what crops you grow in the winter months. We live in a very suburban area of Ventura, halfway between the beach and the drier, sunnier Santa Paula area, about 15 minutes in either direction. We do really well with tomatoes (except for the snails and slugs, who love to set up housekeeping in nice, large tomatoes) every summer/fall, but very badly with basil (the plants grow wide, but not tall, and go to seed very quickly). Pumpkins work some years; others, they don't. We're drowning in avocados, which seem to ripen every two years.

What variety of tomatoes and basil do you buy here for summer, and what can we grow in the winter? A year or two ago, I met with someone who had lettuce in winter. I'd be more interested in herbs and salad-enriching crops like arugula and cilantro. What do you grow in winter, and how well does it do, with snails and such?

Thanks!

[TMC]

Well, we're in the country but still have a lot of the problems that you talk about. We do have cats to keep the mice out of my hay and feed that I have stored. They patrol the garden for mice but that is not really my big problem, bunnies, groundhogs and deer. We have put up fencing and try to plant enough extra to share.....groundhogs however don't share well. Some things we've just had to give up on....grapes don't seem like it's going to happen....the deer just love the plants.....

Fencing really seems to be the only solution I have found so far for garden pests....we even put up an electric fence and if they are hungry enough they will put up with the zap of electricity.

[Crystal]

My one big gardening success this year was a very large basil plant. I kept pinching off the flowers so it wouldn't go to seed. And it just grew and grew.

[ke3]

My one big gardening success this year was a very large basil plant. I kept pinching off the flowers so it wouldn't go to seed. And it just grew and grew.

Well, I never! I'm planting one tomorrow; it will grow in my kitchen-window mini-greenhouse in a pot (I hope). I'll just pinch the flowers. Did you grow it from seed, or did you buy a seedling with the first few leaves already there?

My big gardening success is my mint forest outside my kitchen window. There's absolutely nothing I can do to it (or neglect to do) to kill it.

[kib]

I put basil, oregano, parsley, chives and mint right into my salad as greens! The basil dies off in winter but everything else is still alive even with some temps below freezing. Right now I have a raised bed with beets, chard, spinach, black seeded simpson lettuce, carrots, radishes, romaine lettuce, broccoli and garlic in it. I have it enclosed in chicken wire. We have had several nights in the 20s here in a row, and I've just thrown a cotton blanket over the whole thing and clipped it to the chicken wire with clothespins. So far it's all fine, althought the radishes do look a bit tired. I have wild mustard very similar to arugula that comes up on its own accord in the yard, I'm always throwing that in the salad as well.

I cheated and bought a gorgeous basil plant at Trader Joe's for $2.99 last year, not sure what variety it was but it got big and was very full and prolific. The secret is to pinch off the tops before they get to the blooming stage, when they get these little green star shaped clusters of leaves at the end of the branches. (I put em in a plastic baggie in the freezer and stuff them in my roast chicken with some garlic - they still taste like basil although they're sort of prickly/stiff to eat). Yum.

[ApatheticNoMore]

This is mostly in pots: I'm growing chard, some "mesculin" mixed greens, trying salad burnet (really have no clue about how that will work). I noticed I have a pack of chervil seeds just sitting around, never opened, so I think I will try planting the chervil. Have chives and lemon grass. Ha, do I even eat all these things? I think I'm collecting ;). But I do actually like greens especially chard, so we'll see how they turn out. Also have thyme and rosemary (those two are always useful).

[ke3]

Thanks so much for the info, kib and ApatheticNoMore! I'm going to the Green Thumb, our local garden store, and at least I'll have a list of questions to ask, and get some advice about growing these winter crops, some outdoors, and others in my special kitchen window ledge, in pots.

It's gotten to the point where I absolutely hate cooking; and without the inspiration of something growing in my yard or home, I just churn out the same, dull meals week after week. I'm really ready to give up cooking for 5 people every night; but if I had some inspiration, things might change.

[Yppej]

I stopped planting lettuce and corn because animals would just eat them. My challenges are squirrels, a possum, a skunk, and insects. In the past I had rabbits but not lately since a new development went up in what must have been their habitat. I shoo the neighbor cats away when I see them as I don't want their droppings amongst my food. Mothballs got the skunk out from living under my shed.

[Poco Pelo]

Neighbors can be a downside, pesticide use or lack of but that is just sometime to adjust for. Here is a small urban farm i visited yesterday. http://mayasfarm.com/

[ljevtich]

While I do not live in suburbia per se, my gardening has to be done in pots. We move around a bit, and are right now in the desert - Lake Mead National Recreation Area, near Las Vegas, NV. We will be going to Canyonlands National Park in mid March. I have thought about getting into Hydroponics, as I can't "plant" anything in a garden, because I live in National Parks. Soil can be heavy when moved and it seems easier if I just have plants that "live" indoors.

I still have to research this idea more closely, but maybe for those that have major pests outside, hydroponics would work well for you inside. Just a thought.

[simplelife2]

I've turned most of my backyard into a "farm" over the past few years. My yard is fenced, but plenty of wildlife gets in. I have field mice that often live in my garage and compost bin in the winter. The wandering neighborhood cats lie in wait at the compost bin for a snack, so that keeps the mice in check. I have had a problem with birds eating my pea shoots, which I try to control with netting. The squirrels have eaten my sunflowers, but that's about it. BUT, I do have a medium-sized dog that a let loose on any varmints. Between her marking the yard and scaring off critters, I haven't had an real problems.

My garden is constantly evolving and growing, but I am getting as much food out of it as I can in Zone 5. I've also noticed more and more of my neighbors planting veggies.

It's a much better use of the space than all the chemicals and time spent trying to maintain a picture-perfect lawn.

[CathyA]

I've had gardens for about 35 years, and the only way I could have one was having good fencing. I live out in the country now and there are deer, coons, foxes, rabbits, cats, dogs,.....you name it. The absolutely only way I could grow anything or raise anything (chickens) is to have good fencing. We use utility wire fencing with 1" chicken wire around some things, and utility wire and hardware cloth around the chicken run.
We even have fencing around our trees! (deer/rabbits/beavers).
I would imagine that suburban "farms" would need to have fencing and very protected compost piles. I've never had problems with rats, probably because we have enough predators around. But I have to be very careful with birdseed, chicken feed, etc., because these less desirable animals can smell it a mile away.
I think everyone would adjust to what is needed on suburban farms.......but it would take awhile to learn what that is, to keep the pests away.

[CropCircleDancer]

I don't see a downside. No matter where you try to grow, something will also want it.

[clear water]

I envy you all for your climate. I live in British Colombia up North. The only thing outside now is snow! On the upside ,our growing season is short about 90 days with 19 hours of daylight. I don't have much trouble with animals eating my vege garden just grow a little more to share with them.Herbs do well here as well as root crops. Greenhouses are common

[redfox]

Most farming around the world is small scale. Pest control is one of the major aspects of raising both crops & animals - it's just part of the job. There are plenty of non-chemical strategies that work just fine, including knowing that a certain percentage is gonna be lost.

Good fencing and other barriers go a long way towards keeping pests out. There's a reason one of the truths of farm life is this wisdom: Good fences make good neighbors.

I see no substantial downsides to raising food anywhere, from large acreage to a pot on the porch. I used to manage 500+ acres and 600 sheep. Now I have a small urban lot with lots on it, a mix of perennials, trees, ornamentals and food. And a hot tub! But sadly, no sheep.

[Hattie]

If you have "critter" problems I HIGHLY recommend this: http://www.contech-inc.com/products/scarecrow/ It won't hurt the animals and it is amazing! Hubby mounted ours on the side of the shed and set it on a timer. It only goes on after 10 pm and turns off at 7 am (so it doesn't scare our chicken dog). The only downside is it won't work in the freezing weather. If you get a cold spell, it will freeze and you have to be careful it doesn't crack when this happens. We have tried kazillions of things to keep animals out of our raised bed gardens and this is the only one that really works well!!!