View Full Version : Yet another thread on moving away from toxic friends
I'm having trouble being with unhappy or toxic people. I'm doing a lot of inner work right now to solve my own persistent issues with depression, sleep, bad patterns, etc., and I'm making a lot of progress. I never made my problems someone else's problem, but inside I've often felt like I wanted to change my life to something better. Most days now I feel really great about being alive.
What I'm finding is that I'm having a lot of trouble being with people who are chronically unhappy and talk about it all the time. How bad their job is, how bad men/women are, how bad their commute was this morning, how terrible the price of (insert thing) is, how awful so-and-so is on TV or in real life.....
In a parallel universe, I'd have the guts to say, "You know, I don't think I can be your friend any more. Being with you drags me down into the unhappiness I'm working too hard to escape. See you!"
But I'm here, and I don't have the guts. I know I can't change some of these people --- they've been this way all their lives, and it's not up to me to change them, even if they WANTED to change. So I make excuses not to get together, plead busy or whatever. It feels cowardly.
What would be a more courageous way to handle these kinds of situations?
It may not be the direct way, but it's effective over time. What is the alternative? To be totally honest and say "You are too negative and you drag me down." Would you be saying something like that (however muted or polite) for your benefit or theirs? Is brutal honesty towards those also carrying burdens always the best policy? Or is just fading away a better choice for everyone.
If the person is valuable to you, I suppose you could reply more about the activity than the person, and when given an invitation say something like "I don't want to do that - it's too much of a downer and I"m trying to bring more positivity into my life - why don't we do xxx instead and have some fun." And if that trial fails, you know you will need to move on...
Years ago on the cover of Parade magazine (the old newspaper insert) they published a list of New Year's resolutions. One that really stood out -and that I have taken to heart- said don't associate with people that bring you down. It's really made a difference. I'd rather be alone than with people that consistently make me feel bad, angry, uncomfortable, etc.
I've been known to ask "Do you have any good news?" It worked in the short term.
And I remember once a (chronically complaining) friend saying to me mid-call "You sound kind of down." To which I replied honestly "I was in a good mood when I answered the phone," and then we both laughed. Complaining becomes a bad, bad habit with some people; when I can, I avoid those.
First, I'm getting something from the relationships I don't walk away from... comfort, security... something. Oh, usually it's because I'm such a blue skyed optimist that I need a tempering force in my life... I really crave this. When I "own" my downside and just live my life I don't notice this in other people so much.
I use avoidance, too. It works well.
I use avoidance, too. It works well.
Yes it does. Even on internet boards, if it's bothering me, I'll put people that tend to be very negative all the time on my 'ignore' list.
First, I'm getting something from the relationships I don't walk away from... comfort, security... something. Oh, usually it's because I'm such a blue skyed optimist that I need a tempering force in my life... I really crave this. When I "own" my downside and just live my life I don't notice this in other people so much.
Thanks, everybody. This is really interesting, mattj. I think for a long time I secretly enjoyed the role of champion and savior -- "I'll be a great friend to you even if others won't, blah blah blah". But now that I've given up my savior robes, I see that with some of these people there's nothing left. The relationships aren't doing anything for my happiness. It's not even fun to be around them. So I stick around (and answer their emails, and go have coffee with them...) simply out of guilt, because it's always been drilled into my head that you stay loyal to your friends no matter what, etc etc.
ApatheticNoMore
4-28-11, 7:18pm
I'd probably take their friendship. Send them my way :) Although I work really hard to project an image of invulnerability and indifference, life is often a struggle.
I feel guilty when I have to distance myself from people, for the same reason that Puglogic mentioned about being loyal no matter what.
I had a friend with severe anxiety issues. I felt bad and became her friend. But after a while, I got tired of hearing her panic about losing her job. This went on for at least 4 years. I would try to get her to focus on contingency plans, but she refused. She just wanted to fixate on the idea of losing her job. When she did lose her job, she just moved her fixation onto something else. She went back to school, so now its panic about failing whatever class she's taking. It's like the anxiety is a substitute for actually /doing/ something, like getting extra help, or getting a study group with other students. No matter what I did, she stayed in that spiral.
What finally put me over the edge was her calling me in the middle of the day when I was working telling me she was going to cut herself. She lived close to 2 hours away and there was nothing I could do about it, plus did I mention I was /working/? I wanted to be sympathetic, but she had no concern for ME. She didn't care that I was working, she needed someone, and I should be there dammit. Unfortunately that street only went one way. She wouldn't listen to any suggestions for getting help, for talking to her shrink, for getting her medication changed, or telling her husband she had a problem with cutting. I felt like a horrible person, but she only dragged me down and there were no redeeming qualities to compensate for any of that. I tried to be helpful, but she refused any help, and just kept expecting me to relisten to the same exact conversation we'd had dozens of times before.
Distancing did work, but she still occasionally calls me, always when I'm working, to say she misses me and throws the guilt at me that I'm no longer driving the 2 hours to see her. Oh she couldn't possibly drive up to where I live, don't you know its 2 hours away!
I wouldn't do that to you, apatheticnomore. Like Gina said, it really can be worse than being alone. At least there's no one to be resentful when you make some small successes, and can't wait to change the subject to their gripe-du-jour. Pretty tired of that, really.
puglogic--
My mom (who tends toward depression/pessimism herself) describes me as "fiercely optimistic."
Yep. You bet. I've had enough sadness/drama/badness in my life that I can probably top whatever drama story your "friend" is telling.
I choose joy.
You can too. !thumbsup!
Fawn you are so sweet. I had one downer friend refer to me as "tragically optimistic" -- how's that for taking something good and smearing poo all over it? :)
I too have had a bad-novel history -- child abuse & neglect, sexual assault more than once, physical abuse, poverty, infidelity. But I am not my story - all that's just the wake, not the boat. I am busting my butt to write a new story for myself.
Thanks, all, for the thoughts. It helps to know that there are options....that's what this place is so wonderful at pointing out.
The idea of being loyal to friends no matter what doesn't resonate with me. Possibly because I'm old enough to have had multiple experiences of friendships fading away. Often friendships are situational, and when I moved into a new situation the old friends gradually faded out and were replaced by people in the new situation. Friends have come to seem to me more of a role than as individuals. Having friends, personal contacts, is important for mental health. When specific ones start harming one's mental health it defeats the purpose.
I also don't resonate with the honesty and courage thing. How people interact is largely perception. They perceive themselves as behaving normally (for them). Unless they really want to know that they are presenting as downers, there is little gained by telling them so. It seems to me kinder to arrange to drift apart than to make an overt statement.
Reader99
Left a best friend behind in each life transition
I think being dragged down by others' moods and statements is a boundary thing. As a well-trained co-dependent, I had very enmeshed relationships, until I couldn't do that any more & stay sane. I have slowly learned to not let others' moods be absorbed into my being. I just ground myself in my own body experience, and remind myself that their mood is theirs, not mine; and perhaps it's benefitting them in some way I'll never know about. Not foolproof, but effective. I'm much more able to have compassion for them and keep my own state intact.
Your sitch is so similar to mine these days. Argh...I have relatives like this. My cousin's dying wish, expressed to her husband Jared, was apparently: "I feel guilty that I dropped Kitten like a hot brick a few years ago. Now that I'm dying, I want you to make amends. Make sure she feels like she's part of our family."
I wasn't close to my cousin, and I never knew her husband well. So to have this guy - Jared - suddenly swoop down on me out of nowhere and start demanding that my hubby and I attend all of his extended family celebrations was alarming. These events were SO NOT fun.
I realized after a while that Jared didn't have any desire to get to know me better, or my husband. He's weirdly incapable of intimacy. He thinks of himself as a patriarch, and we're just extras in the pageant. He loves to play the role of the hail-fellow-well-met big-bellied jolly old dunce at the head of the table. But he doesn't smile, doesn't laugh, doesn't listen, is a terrible host, forgets to offer you a drink, makes you set the table and break down the tables after dinner, asks the same questions over and over, always forgets the answers - and doesn't care about anything that doesn't involve him and his money, his house, his artwork, or his history with his deceased wife with whom he's obsessed. (I never knew her, I can't share the interest.)
Hubby and I played our bowing-and-scraping roles for a while, and then asked ourselves: why the hell are we doing this?
One reason it took so long for us to get out from under it is that I adore Herb, my 92-year old uncle. I don't see him enough, and he's always at the Jared things. We finally figured out a way to see Herb on his own - we're going to roll into his home town in June and have lunch with him, and enjoy a nice Jaredless outing with him on our own terms.
If Herb asks me: Why don't you ever see Jared anymore? I don't know what I'll say. I'll come up with something though. I just know that I REALLY NEED to not see Jared anymore ;)
Tragically optimistic - love it! :)
Puglogic, here's to you and your story. Your experiences make you human...what you've been through makes you compassionate around others' pain (and I've seen that from you on this forum, thanks!)
(((((((((((((((puglogic)))))))))))))))
Fawn you are so sweet. I had one downer friend refer to me as "tragically optimistic" -- how's that for taking something good and smearing poo all over it? :)
I too have had a bad-novel history -- child abuse & neglect, sexual assault more than once, physical abuse, poverty, infidelity. But I am not my story - all that's just the wake, not the boat. I am busting my butt to write a new story for myself.
Thanks, all, for the thoughts. It helps to know that there are options....that's what this place is so wonderful at pointing out.
Would the opposite of tragically optimistic be wonderfully pessimistic?
poetry_writer
5-1-11, 10:22am
I have had a couple of "friends" who drained the life out of me. One is a former co-worker, a hoarder who is a bit paranoid and another is a male friend who drops in and out of my life as it pleases him. I finally told the former co worker to just quit calling me . Period. It wasnt easy for me to do, but I cannot help this woman and to even talk to her sucks the energy out of me. With my male friend, who thought he just just dissappear for months on end from my life and then pop back in and have me be like an obedient puppy sitting there waiting faithfully for him.....well...no. It just isnt going to happen. When he drops back in he wont be finding me. I simply have no time for someone who likes to play with you like that. I can only blame myself if I allow people to treat me like the city dump, unloading all their problems or ignoring me for months on end. I refuse to do it anymore. And it feels good.
I have had friends and acquaintances like this too. Normally, I want to help them out, but when that help is not well received and doesn't make a dent in their outlook, it seems futile and the only option left for self-preservation is to distance yourself. But by doing this, you may be severing a relationship with someone who is in genuine need of support and a good kick up the backside. It's tricky!
Maybe you need to call this person on their constant pessimism, as Jane has hinted at, before giving up completely.
My last such acquaintance was a work colleague at my last job. I used to just make comments along the "it could be worse"/"It's not the end of the world" lines and make a conscious effort not to bring up certain topics that I knew would set her off on a unnecessarily pessimistic rant (uh... family, work, weather...!!!). I took solace in the fact that my other colleagues felt the same way around her, but talking behind someone's back is not something I enjoy.
I have a current colleague whose favourite topics are her weight, lack of money and lack of luck with men. She's lovely otherwise, but when she gets on to these topics (which is very often) it is extremely draining. There are only so many times I can recommend her healthy dishes, suggest that she is spending too much and that should cut up her credit card (she makes more than me and still lives at home yet has no money left at the end of the month?!!). It must be a confidence thing with her, but there really isn't much I can do... the onus is on her.
Would the opposite of tragically optimistic be wonderfully pessimistic?
(giggling) I think so!
puglogic--
My mom (who tends toward depression/pessimism herself) describes me as "fiercely optimistic."
Yep. You bet. I've had enough sadness/drama/badness in my life that I can probably top whatever drama story your "friend" is telling.
I choose joy.
You can too. !thumbsup!
WOW! I so admire you right now! I love the "that's the wake, I'm the boat" thinking. Thanks for sharing. I, too, choose joy.
((( beckyliz )))
I'm learning that "choosing joy ain't for wimps" ....the world sure makes it hard sometimes.
:D
After a day of being a downer here - :|(>8) - I'll try not to continue it in your thread, Pug.
The other day I took some sort of online test, I think it was for longevity. One of the questions was, "how many new friendships have you made in the past year?" 0, 1-3 and so on, more being better. My first response was, "Add 8 NEW friends every year? Who has room for that? The "friend room" would get so crowded I'd just die!"
But when I thought about it, it seemed this suggestion for how to live a long and happy life was apparently suggesting something else. Obviously you can't add 8 new "best friends" to your life every year, so it seemed to be saying that it was OK, that it was Healthy to have differing levels of intimacy with your friends, and to let at least some relationships ebb, flow, or be what they will - including gone.
I'm not good at this. I still have a woman in my address book who moved away when I was 11. Chrysanthea, how the heck are you? I mean I haven't spoken to you in 37 years, but hey, I should! This is entirely my fault! When I sent a christmas letter to another childhood friend I haven't seen since college, she said she still had Chrysa's address in her book, too. Just In Case.
So anyway, I'm rambling but I found it interesting that this longevity advice apparently included letting go, guilt free, instead of being the Keeper Of The Relationships, working and defunct. It's OK to occasionally be the one saying, "I'm sorry, have we met?" to someone introduced to you at a party last year, instead of the obsessive "person collector" for all current relationships good and bad, as well as potential relationships, past relationships and never-gonna-happen relationships.
ETA: relating this to you, perhaps you just need to give yourself permission to let people come and go a little more freely? I know that I get overwhelmed with the idea of New friends, no matter how much I think I like them, because I feel like I'm already overflowing with Friend Keeper responsibility (even if I never dust off the collection and it includes people I don't even like.)
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