View Full Version : Evacuations In California
They are evacuating 200,000 people in California because the Oroville Dam might flood or break.
I've been following that - it was a lot of "this won't happen" - and then it did. It makes me wonder how much they are downplaying the heavy rainfall expected later this week.
My dad was a genius civil engineer and lived on the down side of the dam. He told them years ago that it was a danger. Apparently many also did in 2005 and maybe earlier. Nothing was ever done.
I saw it overflowing on the news the other day and thought......hmmm.....that's too much pressure behind that dam. Apparently, it's never come close to the top, since it was built in the l960s. Pretty scary.
Very practical question. What happens to those who have evacuated? How do they maintain employment and pay their bills?
I suppose the Red Cross has places set up for sleeping and eating. Some people might even be able to go to their jobs, provided they aren't in the evacuation area. Let's just hope the dam doesn't break and destroy homes. Hopefully this will be a temporary thing. Must be pretty scary for everyone though. The weather is doing what climate change causes.....which is make weather very variable....wild swings. We had sub-zero temps in early winter, but it's been in 50's and 60's lately. It's quite disconcerting, but at least we're not (in this area), having scary weather (knock on wood).
One thing I haven't seen discussed - is what a breach in this dam might "break" downstream. More dams?
I don't know that much about it, but I do think it was a secondary safety wall for a lake. Maybe I'm making a wrong assumption, but it's the overflow of the lake. I don't think the entire lake will spill out...just the overflow. I'm not sure it's like a regular dam.
I don't know that much about it, but I do think it was a secondary safety wall for a lake. Maybe I'm making a wrong assumption, but it's the overflow of the lake. I don't think the entire lake will spill out...just the overflow. I'm not sure it's like a regular dam.
There's the Oroville dam - some water can flow out via the power generation stuff - in addition there's a spillway to release water when the level is too high. The 1st issue is a sinkhole developed in the primary spillway - but they can't shut it off because the water level is too high. So it's destroying the spillway and land downstream from the sinkhole.
Lake kept filling to capacity so it started flowing down the emergency spillway as well that has never been used - and the land downhill from the spillway wasn't properly maintained so the water was really tearing it up and started compromising the emergency spillway, which triggered the evacuations.
Currently the water has dropped enough it's not topping the emergency spillway - but there's a lot of rain coming later this week. If the emergency spillway gives way they are talking like a 30 foot wall of water coming down.
http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/2/13/14598042/oroville-dam-flood-evacuation
This article gives a pretty good synopsis of what's happened and what could happen later this week. Right now it looks like the worst case scenario is that the emergency spillway fails and drops 30 feet sending a whole lot of water downstream all at once. Assuming the evacuation has been total and remains in effect through this week's storm it would be devastating from a loss of property standpoint but hopefully not from a loss of life standpoint.
So far no one is predicting the entire dam failing, which would be far beyond the worst catastrophe seen in the US ever. If 30 feet of the reservoir flooding down the Feather River will flood 200,000 people's homes just imagine what the 900 foot lake all going downstream at once would do. Not to mention the follow on problems of losing the entire reservoir as a water storage facility. This water is a major major part of the water used in the central valley for farming and in southern california for household use. Loss of this would be a massive longterm disaster that would have impacts not only on all the millions of people whose lives and livelihoods depend on the water, but on the food supply for the entire country.
I suppose the Red Cross has places set up for sleeping and eating. Some people might even be able to go to their jobs, provided they aren't in the evacuation area. Let's just hope the dam doesn't break and destroy homes. Hopefully this will be a temporary thing. Must be pretty scary for everyone though. The weather is doing what climate change causes.....which is make weather very variable....wild swings. We had sub-zero temps in early winter, but it's been in 50's and 60's lately. It's quite disconcerting, but at least we're not (in this area), having scary weather (knock on wood).
This is fairly close to me. The regional hotels are filled. Everyone is donating their time and space, even karate dojo's It's a big deal. Is this an infrastructure question? Or just a freak thing with the heavy rains and snow we've had. Rut Roh! California is a sanctuary state. Will Trump turn away?
Something I'm wondering is why would anyone live downhill from a huge lake/dam like this? Do they just assume that nothing bad will ever happen? I guess it's sort of like living on or near a major earthquake fault or near a volcano. I wonder what the area was like without this.....just a lake? Maybe some of these people have lived there for generations, before the dam was built.........but the dam was probably built to protect people if the lake overflowed?
Cathy, people buy homes right beside a busy airport and then complain about the noise and moving the airport elsewhere. They buy on waterfront that is hazardous and so on. The dam was built 60? years ago and it was forgotten that it had a limited lifespan.
The reality is that they had to evacuate people from 3 counties just in case the emergency spillway fails. If the entire dam ever fails the death toll would be huge. Assuming the water followed the current path it follows upon leaving the dam the entire city of Sacramento would probably be destroyed if the whole dam fails. And that's probably 70 miles away.
sweetana3
2-14-17, 10:15am
Cathy, I continued to live in Anchorage, Alaska and my brother still does even though we lived thru the 1964 9.2 earthquake and a volcano eruption. People live in SF and LA regardless of the earthquake risk. They live in the mountains regardless of fire risk. Almost anywhere has risk. I live in a tornado risk area and when in NC we had hurricanes.
iris lilies
2-14-17, 11:00am
Cathy A lives in tornado land. I know some people who say they wont live in the praries due to tornadoes, too much risk, how can people live there!???
Well, I'd still prefer some of the other risks to an old big dam giving way. I know there are risks everywhere, but they aren't all the same.
I think you pick your poison. If I live on a beach, for example, most of the time it would be glorious, but it's not a smart place to build a house.
I think you pick your poison. If I live on a beach, for example, most of the time it would be glorious, but it's not a smart place to build a house.
The whole planet is a bit sketchy, what with the problems with asteroid impacts and the variable-star -> supernova business.
mschrisgo2
2-15-17, 11:49pm
"The whole planet is a bit sketchy..." is not very comforting... but it is real. No wonder there is so much stress in the world- we really are in danger. it was less stressful when most were blissfully ignorant of all the dangers.
Williamsmith
2-16-17, 8:02am
"The whole planet is a bit sketchy..." is not very comforting... but it is real. No wonder there is so much stress in the world- we really are in danger. it was less stressful when most were blissfully ignorant of all the dangers.
Count me in the basket of blissfully ignorant. Today, it is well with my soul. I just pretend it is 1969 and Broadway Joe Namath just led the New York Jets to a Super Bowl win. Born to an Hungarian immigrant family working in the steel mills of Western Pennsylvania became an iconic figure in Professional Football. Wanted to play baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates but his mom wanted him to get a college education. Too bad. Played for Alabama under Bear Bryant......I can still hear my mom and dad talking about Joe Willie....that's what they called him......
Yes, blissfully ignorant, thank you. And now deplorable.
I think there are so many things that contribute to feeling like it's all falling apart. Probably the biggest thing is the internet. We learn about everyone else's tragedies. Also, science has progressed and can warn us of all sorts of potential catastrophies. Then there are the different laws/expectations in different countries about how we should all be alike.......or all be different.
I would love to be blissfully ignorant, I suppose. I seem to be hardwired to always be aware of what's going on everywhere. No wonder I'm in pain all the time.......physically and mentally.
And of course, the current political environment makes everything more scary.
Back to the Evacuations in CA. They let people return to their homes yesterday. I hope that wasn't premature. I would sure have my exit plan well prepared and listen to the news constantly...........or to the sound of gushing water........
Probably the happiest person I've known in my adult life was a woman I used to work with who completely 100% had no idea what was going on in the world. Her only concerns were things like when her daughter's next dance recital was, and how many weeks it was until their trip to Orlando. She knew who the president was but there's no way she could have known who the congressman for Staten Island was, or who the NY senators were.
Cathy, I share your concern about it being premature to go back. Although the news reports indicate that things are much better now if we get buckets and buckets of rain this weekend/early next week as is predicted, the lake may well get back up to the point of going over the emergency spillway again. If things go wrong evacuation probably won't be an option. The last evacuation had people stranded in traffic jams and lines at gas stations for hours. If there's a next evacuation the same thing will happen again. If I lived in that area I probably would have gone back, but I'd also probably be leaving Saturday and waiting out the coming storm someplace else just in case.
Yeah, I think I would do the same thing if I lived there. Nobody wants to be away from their home and I'd go back too.... but my antenna would definitely be in over-drive and I think I would leave, like you, if much rain were in the forecast. It must be really hard for the people in charge there to know what to do. They're probably "dam-ed" if they do and dam-ed if they don't! (pardon the pun).
mschrisgo2
2-17-17, 3:14am
Well, I live in California, on the Sacramento river, the river that it all flows into on the way to the ocean. We have been evacuated 3 times in the last 5 weeks, for a total of 13 nights/14 days. The first time was for a full week at the high tide in January, then 4 days, and most recently 3 days. And we're looking at another big storm coming in on Sunday...
Our seawall/levees are designed to hold a 10.6 rise in the river level. The highest level was 11.4, and we had water flowing over the edges of the community, and into driveways and garages, and lots of seepage, but no water into homes and no vehicles lost. At that time the concern was the seasonal high tides. Now we are trying not to panic over the huge flows being released from the dams. There is an unbelievable amount of water being released down the river, as of this afternoon it was still nearly 200,000 cubic feet per second. Our river rise is hovering right around 10 feet.
Actually packing to leave has been an interesting exercise. I subscribe to the 4 P's: people, pets, prescriptions, papers; fill in available space with water, food, and clothes. The first time I packed just as I do to visit family for a week, because I was going the stay with a friend. I actually took things I discovered I didn't need and dropped them at Goodwill before I came home. All was well.
The second time kind of caught me by surprise, at the end of a work day and I was already tired and frazzled. I didn't take enough clothes or food. The third time, I really crammed my car full, because I was not at all sure we would be back, and my 2 dogs and I were going to stay on a motel. I discovered the secondary most important things were down comforter, pillow, and my grandma's cookie jar. I walked through after I packed, to see if there was anything that couldn't be replaced, that I would really miss- the cookie jar was the only thing. (Grandma has been gone for 50 years).
My car is still half full, because I expect we will have to leave again Sunday/Monday. I feel like I'm camping out in my own house. And if I get to stay home this weekend, there quite a few things I intend to give away, things I haven't used in more than 2 years, that were not even a consideration at all. I've had a good lesson in "what's important."
Mschrisgo2, is there relief in sight? Having to pack and leave at a moment's notice over and over must be harrowing.
Sorry you've found yourself in this, Mschrisgo2. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you can soon get back to normal. Good luck this weekend with the coming storm.
awakenedsoul
2-17-17, 5:38pm
mschrisgo2, I hope you are okay and that the rain isn't too heavy on Saturday. I'm in LA, and it's been raining here all day. The water has pooled in front of my cottage, but so far no water has come into the house. I may have to pile some straw on the porch to act as a sponge. The street where I live looks like it has two rivers on each side. As long as it doesn't come down to heavily, we are usually okay.
Our local feed store had a fire a few weeks ago. All of the straw heated up because of the rain and caused $75,000. worth of damage. I feel so badly for them. They're very hard working people.
This is such a change after the the extreme drought we were in for years. I hope everyone is safe and dry.
mschrisgo2.......just wondering how you did this weekend with all the rain?
And the DWR posted video of what the regular spillway looks like now. Holy moly, there's not much left. There's no way this will get fixed in one summer and it's going to cost a small fortune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyvDPt-HU3g
ToomuchStuff
3-2-17, 12:41am
Was there some sort of copper mine around there at some point? The rock, to me, appears to have copper in it, based on the color, and I am thinking a mine, under the spillway, collapsing, could have been an initial cause.
Well, obviously something collapsed.
We were evacuated here again for 2 days and a night, then they cut way back on the dam releases, so the river has gone down to a nice spring level. We're good now until the snow starts melting, which hopefully will be a slow melt.
I think it was more just a matter that once the concrete failed and a hole developed water got under and washed away a whole lot of dirt.
Hmmm.....did they build the spillway on all the huge boulders with the spaces inbetween, or had they filled those spaces/holes in with something and the "filler" got washed away?
Water is incredibly powerful and if any got underneath any type of fill, it would wash it away. IF Dad was still alive, he would have the answer. He was a civil engineer and lived down from the dam. He said at least 10 years ago that there would be problems.
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