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Ultralight
5-27-17, 2:32pm
In June I start facilitating the new simple living course from the Northwest Earth Institute. It is called A Different Way: Living Simply in a Complex World. We have 11 people signed up for the class.

I have facilitated the Voluntary Simplicity class a bunch of times, but this course is like part two.

The articles look excellent! I expect there will be some great conversations and revelations.

If anyone else is interested in doing this course over on their side of the street, let me know. I can share some ideas for getting it going. :)

As "cheese ball" as it sounds, doing these courses really lights up my life.

catherine
5-27-17, 3:13pm
I have always wanted to facilitate one of their courses--they look amazing. I'll bet you do a great job.

Zoe Girl
5-28-17, 8:27am
I would live that, I agree that the groups I help lead mean a lot to me personally and socially, would you message me some info?

I have been reading all these simple and green ideas lately, most of them I do or have done. Especially when I stayed home I did every frugal eco friendly thing there was. It is more challenging in some ways but easier in others

iris lilies
5-28-17, 9:11am
UL, I am glad you are out there in the world leading these sessions. I think the real core message is "self actualization through voluntary simplicity" and I would like all Americans to be exposed to the idea.

Ultralight
6-5-17, 6:22am
We had the orientation meeting last night. Only 75% of folks showed up. Hopefully we'll have full attendance next time. People had other obligations -- they have complex lives, apparently. haha

Ultralight
6-19-17, 7:40am
The class is starting to pick up the pace and people are really opening up with each other.

Crowd-sourcing this question:
Invariably these classes are almost all women; for instance, this class is 8 women and me (the only guy). Any guesses as to why this might be the case?

razz
6-19-17, 7:46am
Not to be difficult but why does it matter? Women usually talk things through more and, in my experience anyway, men look at things/situations and then problem-solve modifying as seems wise. Both require intelligence and understanding. It is really wonderful when the two approaches combine and work things through. Often, men have commented to me about a situation that puzzled them looking for the conversation aspect and then done their modification as it seemed appropriate to them.
Does that help answer your question?

Ultralight
6-19-17, 7:51am
Not to be difficult but why does it matter?
I know it is rare these days, perhaps even more rare in your nation, but I have an intellectually curious mind. I ask questions when I see trends or anomalies.


Women usually talk things through more and, in my experience anyway, men look at things/situations and then problem-solve modifying as seems wise. Both require intelligence and understanding. It is really wonderful when the two approaches combine and work things through. Often, men have commented to me about a situation that puzzled them looking for the conversation aspect and then done their modification as it seemed appropriate to them.
Does that help answer your question?

Uh... please clarify. Thanks.

catherine
6-19-17, 7:54am
Do you think women have a need for discourse about these types of topics? Do you think women have more complexity in their lives in general (due to multiple responsibilities that are still mostly on their shoulder i.e. earning and child-rearing and homemaking) and are responding the idea of "a simpler way" out of that complexity?

Ultralight
6-19-17, 8:23am
Do you think women have a need for discourse about these types of topics? Do you think women have more complexity in their lives in general (due to multiple responsibilities that are still mostly on their shoulder i.e. earning and child-rearing and homemaking) and are responding the idea of "a simpler way" out of that complexity?

I think it is possible women just like to talk more. I have definitely noticed that there are more ideological minimalists who are women and more practicing minimalists who are men.

Do you really think men have less complicated lives or fewer obligations?

catherine
6-19-17, 8:28am
Do you really think men have less complicated lives or fewer obligations?

I think it's a pretty well-known assumption that women are the multi-tackers, more likely to be put in a position of juggling multiple roles.

herbgeek
6-19-17, 9:12am
Do you really think men have less complicated lives or fewer obligations?

Traditionally, yes. The man went to work and then came home and was waited upon. Raising children and taking care of household responsibilities was the woman's job. It was enough for a man to just bring home a paycheck. Conversely, there really weren't many roles for men. Fewer choices to make.

I think the norms for that are changing, but not as quick or as widespread as we might like/think.

creaker
6-19-17, 9:39am
The class is starting to pick up the pace and people are really opening up with each other.

Crowd-sourcing this question:
Invariably these classes are almost all women; for instance, this class is 8 women and me (the only guy). Any guesses as to why this might be the case?

Men don't ask for directions?

catherine
6-19-17, 9:47am
I think the norms for that are changing, but not as quick or as widespread as we might like/think.'

Good point. UL, what are the ages of the women in your group? When I look at my two married sons, they are definitely "co-creators" of their homes. In fact, to be honest, my oldest son does a tremendous amount of housework and childcare--possibly even more than DIL. She's a huge clean freak (but he does a lot of that, too), and she also does the child care (feeding and bathing 2 very young kids), while DS picks up the kids from child care and makes all the meals and cleans up.

I know my second son and his wife are equal partners when it comes to housework.

So, herbgeek, maybe you're right. I think my generation still feels the "Superwoman" pinch, but maybe that's going away. I hope so!

razz
6-19-17, 9:53am
I know it is rare these days, perhaps even more rare in your nation, but I have an intellectually curious mind. I ask questions when I see trends or anomalies.

Believe or not, Canada has its share of the curious minds, including mine. :laff:
I was just wondering what part of the question triggered your interest.

As Catherine mentioned, women over the centuries have had to find solutions and often by collaborating with others who shared the communal space. Warriors, sheep-herders or the hunter-gatherers were often on their own and dealing with the situation as they found it and solved it. DH and I talked at length about things; I did the research, he found a solution based on the research that met our needs. It worked well so I never questioned it.

ApatheticNoMore
6-19-17, 4:28pm
Crowd-sourcing this question:
Invariably these classes are almost all women; for instance, this class is 8 women and me (the only guy). Any guesses as to why this might be the case?

if the focus of the classes are household things, then yes women are more focused on household things, on keeping up a home, they just are.

They may have more time, but not if they are working full time as well (then they don't have much time of course). A social responsibility focus will also more often attract women although that's probably not central.

Ultralight
6-19-17, 4:46pm
I think it's a pretty well-known assumption ...
:confused:

Ultralight
6-19-17, 4:51pm
Traditionally, yes. The man went to work and then came home and was waited upon. This is a far distant memory to men in our current era.

Ultralight
6-19-17, 4:53pm
Good point. UL, what are the ages of the women in your group?

It varies. One woman is 24, another is about 35. There are some in their 50s and 60s.


So, herbgeek, maybe you're right. I think my generation still feels the "Superwoman" pinch, but maybe that's going away. I hope so! I think the "superwoman" thing is still going strong. Nearly every woman I know thinks that women can "have it all and do it all."

I think this is a bad idea though...

iris lilies
6-19-17, 4:56pm
This is a far distant memory to men in our current era.
It's not "traditional" for most of the history of mankind, and certainly was not the standard for my family who lived on farms. Also for DH's father who worked a full time job and akso ran a farm groeing corn, beans, and pigs and cows.

KayLR
6-19-17, 5:58pm
I was curious how and where the class was promoted. Maybe more women saw it than guys did?

razz
6-19-17, 6:02pm
I was curious how and where the class was promoted. Maybe more women saw it than guys did?
Has the wording method of marketing been mentioned or implied to go with Kay's point.

Ultralight
6-19-17, 6:21pm
Has the wording method of marketing been mentioned or implied to go with Kay's point.

Well, it went out to some community and volunteer organizations and to some liberal churches. There was also work of mouth, like: "Hey, friend, you might like this class..."

JaneV2.0
6-19-17, 6:55pm
The class is starting to pick up the pace and people are really opening up with each other.

Crowd-sourcing this question:
Invariably these classes are almost all women; for instance, this class is 8 women and me (the only guy). Any guesses as to why this might be the case?

Because most women are relentlessly trying to fix themselves? You could make the point that this is "self-actualization," but it seems like we have internalized the idea that we are never enough as we are.

Ultralight
6-19-17, 7:03pm
Because most women are relentlessly trying to fix themselves? You could make the point that this is "self-actualization," but it seems like we have internalized the idea that we are never enough as we are.
This is exclusive to women?

Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:28am
It is interesting, this class. I have some folks in here who have taken the NWEI voluntary simplicity course already -- even more than once. As I have been in class with them before I saw their condition before, during, and after the first course.

Unfortunately some of these folks have not changed at all -- same problems, same complaints, same unmet goals. I am brainstorming things that might empower them to make some changes that they want.

But then, perhaps, maybe they just don't want it enough.

I notice that people will skip a session of this course because they are "too busy."

So I think: "If you are so busy you have to miss class today, then you really need to be in class today."

Chicken lady
6-26-17, 9:05am
UL, lol!

Like the the women who get pregnant because "they can't afford birth control" (I have known two. - really made me want to smack them in the side of the head and see if their brains would reboot.)

iris lilies
6-26-17, 9:15am
UL, lol!

Like the the women who get pregnant because "they can't afford birth control" (I have known two. - really made me want to smack them in the side of the head and see if their brains would reboot.)
please dont tell me there are women that stupid, and mean to their children. Please.

catherine
6-26-17, 9:26am
This is exclusive to women?

I don't think self-improvement is exclusive to women. I'm a rabid "self-improver"--My hero in high school was Ben Franklin, because of his self-improvement principles. I wrote my first self-help poem when I was about 8.

Yes, I'm a woman, but all the self-actualizer sites I go to are heavily populated by men. I do Brian Johnson mostly (I LOVE him), but have done Steve Pavlina, a little bit of James Altucher. These self-actualizer gurus see self-improvement as a "growth mindset"--not a self-blaming mindset at all.

Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:49pm
please dont tell me there are women that stupid, and mean to their children. Please. You know there are.

Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:54pm
I think being early to the simple living game really matters. Now, it is not the only thing that matters, but I think it profoundly matters.

I see people in this class and the other voluntary simplicity classes who are very late to the simplicity game.

I know people from other organizations who are interested very much in minimalism too.

But if they have already dumped a crap ton of money into expensive toys -- like sports cars -- or they have 3 kids by three baby-daddies or they have mountains of credit card debt they may never be able to live a truly simply life.

(Insert arguments about what "truly simply life" means here, then go back to the rest of the post).

So I am thinking of interjecting a few points into the next couple sessions of class about self-acceptance and reasonable expectations.

Chicken lady
6-26-17, 9:52pm
My father has a history of dumping the crap ton of expensive toys at a significant loss when the upkeep becomes too much and they no longer bring him joy (drives my mom nuts) so that isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

i'd advocate against dumping your kids though.

Williamsmith
6-27-17, 9:46am
Warning: Harsh Criticism

The concept of Living simply is mostly a by product of expanded leisure time for our society. It's not primarily driven by people's feelings that they are overwhelmed by the complexity of their relationship to other people and tangible things. Plenty of people live a simple life out of necessity and never dwell on the "complexity" of simple living.

I don't think simple livers can be evangelized. Therefore, I find the study group itself to be oxymoronic. No disrespect to the OP but perhaps leadership of a class like this is more about the leaders need for confirmation than the participants need for enlightenment.

Now, if this class is simply for social entertainment......as say a substitute for church or going to the movies....well that's hunky dory. Carry on. And that would explain the high percentage of female participants. Men are not easily persuaded that sharing ones feelings or thoughts with others is productive in a competitive sense. Men are not as prone to "self improvement" as women.

Chicken lady
6-27-17, 10:01am
Actually, I think simple livers can be "evangelized" or perhaps "enabled".

there are a lot of people who look at their lives and think "this isn't working" but don't know what to do about it. It can be very hard to get out of your frame of reference. If you have not been exposed to other frames of reference, it is even harder.

example - my children were homeschooled. When we first started homeschooling, many friends and family said something along the lines of "but you have to send them to school!" To which I usually responded "why?"

simply having a group of people who respond to "I hate (x) but I have to." With "why?" Can be a huge thing.

Tybee
6-27-17, 11:27am
I can see what you are saying, Williamsmith, but I do think that if one is trying to live a simpler, more fulfilling life today, that one does have to follow countercultural ideas. Like don't get a mortgage if you possibly can--see the work of Rob Roy, Mortgage Free! or follow someone like Dave Ramsey or Mary Hunt to learn why it's a good idea to avoid student loan debt.

The times when I have had to simplify because I didn't have any money at all, and had kids to feed, were incredibly stressful and complicated. So were the lives of people I got to know when I was working my survival job at IKEA-- people were going bankrupt, getting divorced to avoid partner debt, working two and three jobs, losing their homes, getting cars repossessed-- so I don't accept that everyone who is living lives at a lower income level is just leading simpler lives. I know there is the distinction between voluntary and involuntary simplicity but it goes a lot deeper than that.

I started reading the Nearings and YMOYL and Janet Lehrs and Dave Ramsey and everyone I could get my hands on who had confronted some of the same problems and found a better way. So like Chicken Lady, I disagree about the role model concept-- these folks helped me think my way out of being broke.

Maybe the OP's group can help people to do that? So I think it's a neat idea. ..

Teacher Terry
6-27-17, 3:43pm
Having 3 kids is much different then debt or toys. Lumping them in together does not make sense. Maybe they wanted that many kids.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 5:07pm
Having 3 kids is much different then debt or toys. Lumping them in together does not make sense. Maybe they wanted that many kids.

Maybe they wanted that many kids. Then later they realized they didn't. Fathers have said this to me: "I wish I did not have kids."

Mothers have said this to me: "Maybe if I could go back in time I would have ended the pregnancy"

Not all obviously, but a few have.

The NWEI is also about environmentalism. So a person who has a bunch of kids is probably never going to bring their ecological footprint down to a sustainable level simply because their footprint was made ENORMOUS by having a bunch of kids.

And I actually think that beyond one kid, maybe two, simple living becomes virtually impossible at the family level. If one member of the family, let us say the mom, wants to live more simply she can do a Project 333 on her wardrobe, donate stuff from the hobbies she does not do anymore, etc. But ultimately, if she has 3+ kids then her life will probably never be simple, except maybe after launching the kids and then retirement.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 5:08pm
Warning: Harsh Criticism

The concept of Living simply is mostly a by product of expanded leisure time for our society. It's not primarily driven by people's feelings that they are overwhelmed by the complexity of their relationship to other people and tangible things. Plenty of people live a simple life out of necessity and never dwell on the "complexity" of simple living.

I don't think simple livers can be evangelized. Therefore, I find the study group itself to be oxymoronic. No disrespect to the OP but perhaps leadership of a class like this is more about the leaders need for confirmation than the participants need for enlightenment.

Now, if this class is simply for social entertainment......as say a substitute for church or going to the movies....well that's hunky dory. Carry on. And that would explain the high percentage of female participants. Men are not easily persuaded that sharing ones feelings or thoughts with others is productive in a competitive sense. Men are not as prone to "self improvement" as women.

I often wonder if deliberate, voluntary simplicity requires a certain level of intellectual capacity that the vast majority of the population does not have.

Chicken lady
6-27-17, 5:44pm
I some ways, my life was simpler when my house had three kids in it.

Teacher Terry
6-27-17, 5:58pm
When I was raising my kids many families had 3 or more. YOu make your life complicated by the activities, etc that you decide to pursue not by the number of kids. Also if people are sorry perhaps they did not think through the decision very well or now don't like the sacrifices required or are disappointed in the outcomes. Kids don't come with a money back guarantee. My 3 kids have decided not to have kids and I am fine with that. My 2 step-sons want to have a family someday. I hate it when people start getting bashed for having kids or more then 2.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 6:43pm
I some ways, my life was simpler when my house had three kids in it. Quantify this statement.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 6:45pm
When I was raising my kids many families had 3 or more. YOu make your life complicated by the activities, etc that you decide to pursue not by the number of kids. No matter what having more kids means more complications. Sure, you can tell them all: "Only one sport!" But if you have one kid in 3 sports I bet you will be less busy than with 3 kids in one sport each.


I hate it when people start getting bashed for having kids or more then 2. I wasn't bashing. Was someone here bashing?

iris lilies
6-27-17, 6:56pm
Quantify this statement.

I am not CL but I remember someone on a website making a profound statement about bringing children into the world, and it is that suddenly you know what is important beyond all else. Nurturing and caring for one's children is The Goal. All of the other stuff is not important.

That makes sense to me even if the ongoing daily complexities of life with small beings in the house seems overwhelming. One main reason I did not have children is the complexity. I like things simple, that is, unless I choose a short term goal that makes my life (temporarily) complex.

Chicken lady
6-27-17, 6:59pm
Well, for example, I had three kids in one sport - swimming. So I had many many days when I knew my whole day would be spent sitting in bleachers. I would tell the kids to let me know when their event was coming up, and then I had the rest of the day to read or knit. I didn't get involved in a bunch of things that made demands outside of their time slots or have to navigate difficult (for me) social situations because "oh, I can't, we have swimming."

also, many hands make light work. Canning applesauce for example was a fun, all day family activity. So was cutting and stacking wood. It was easier to keep the fire going. One person can cook dinner for five almost as quickly as one person can cook dinner for two, and the person wasn't always me. When they could drive, they did some of the errands.

Btw, if you have three kids in one sport each, you will go insane. You clearly do not understand the scheduling of kids sports these days. With one kid in three sports, at least no one thinks you should be in three places at once - you just go where the kid goes.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 7:05pm
Well, for example, I had three kids in one sport - swimming. So I had many many days when I knew my whole day would be spent sitting in bleachers. I would tell the kids to let me know when their event was coming up, and then I had the rest of the day to read or knit. I didn't get involved in a bunch of things that made demands outside of their time slots or have to navigate difficult (for me) social situations because "oh, I can't, we have swimming."

also, many hands make light work. Canning applesauce for example was a fun, all day family activity. So was cutting and stacking wood. It was easier to keep the fire going. One person can cook dinner for five almost as quickly as one person can cook dinner for two, and the person wasn't always me. When they could drive, they did some of the errands.

Btw, if you have three kids in one sport each, you will go insane. You clearly do not understand the scheduling of kids sports these days. With one kid in three sports, at least no one thinks you should be in three places at once - you just go where the kid goes.

I am not convinced at all. More kids = more complex life.

I have one dog. When I first started living with my sister and BIL back in 2013 they had two dogs. When they would go on vacation I would have to care for all three dogs. Believe it. My life was made more hectic by dealing with all three. Whereas one dog is much, much more manageable.

Tammy
6-27-17, 7:22pm
Each kid made my life less simple. That's true. Then each grew up. Now I'm back to simple.

I kept it as simple as possible with kids at home. I was way more simple than most families with kids. But the kids deserve their own lives. One chose to store everything important to him in his bedroom, including spare tires for his car. I just shut the door - it was his space. 😄

Chicken lady
6-27-17, 7:24pm
Kids are not dogs. Harlan will never switch over the laundry and cook dinner because your bike broke down. You will have to walk your bike home and still do your laundry and make dinner. The dogs will not take care of each other either.

it would complicate my life more to tell my mother in law "sorry I won't see you on Saturday. I want to go somewhere else and read a book."

also, when I had kids at home, other moms provided a mutual support system - which is technically more complex than just solving all your own problems, but not harder.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 7:41pm
Kids are not dogs. Harlan will never switch over the laundry and cook dinner because your bike broke down. You will have to walk your bike home and still do your laundry and make dinner. The dogs will not take care of each other either.

it would complicate my life more to tell my mother in law "sorry I won't see you on Saturday. I want to go somewhere else and read a book."

also, when I had kids at home, other moms provided a mutual support system - which is technically more complex than just solving all your own problems, but not harder.

Dogs are not kids! Very true. Lemme go ahead and win this argument real fast...

Harlan costs a lot less than a kid. His medical bills are lower from birth to cremation. He won't harass me for an iPhone, a computer, college tuition, etc.
He will probably only live to be 14, at most. He does not require daycare or a babysitter except for rare occasions. Harlan won't try drugs or alcohol and have to get sent to rehab. Harlan does not need taken to school or any sports or piano lessons.

A dog is a lot less complicated than a kid in every way I can think of. But as my previous story illustrates -- more dogs means more complications. And since kids are more complicated than dogs, more kids means even more complications.

Why not just own up to it?

Just because more kids means more complications does not mean you are a bad person for having them. It just means you'd rather not have a simpler life and/or smaller ecological footprint.

I could eat things like bananas, raw carrots, bowls of cereal with milk, and so forth. If I did, I would have a simpler life. But I like complex flavors with layers and herbs and spice. So I am learning to cook and had to buy kitchen utensils and equipment. My life is more complicated because of this, but I also like the food more than bowls of cereal.

I just own this.

Sure, some other minimalist might say: "That is so complicated!"

And I say: "Yeah, it is. But I like it more than eating the same boring stuff all the time."

So why not say? "Yeah, having a bunch of kids is more complicated. But I am not lonely, I have people to love and probably love me, and I was able to create meaning in my life in an easier way than striving for something far-fetched and much harder."

Or whatever you'd say in your words with your points.

Alan
6-27-17, 7:58pm
A dog is a lot less complicated than a kid in every way I can think of. But as my previous story illustrates -- more dogs means more complications. And since kids are more complicated than dogs, more kids means even more complications.

Why not just own up to it?

Kids are complicated, but in a way that is more satisfying and remarkable than anything else I can imagine. Part of me feels sorry for people who have never experienced the joy and frustration of children and grandchildren, they make life so much.... more. I might never have known that there was something more important in life than me, everyone should have the opportunity to learn that.

Ultralight
6-27-17, 8:02pm
Kids are complicated, but in a way that is more satisfying and remarkable than anything else I can imagine. Part of me feels sorry for people who have never experienced the joy and frustration of children and grandchildren, they make life so much.... more. I might never have known that there was something more important in life than me, everyone should have the opportunity to learn that.

This is an answer that I can accept.

But I still want to remain child-free.

Chicken lady
6-27-17, 8:22pm
I didn't know we were having an arguement about wether or not kids made your life more complex. Of course they do. Underwear makes your life more complex. I simply was trying to explain, as asked, how my life with kids at home was simpler than my life with kids grown and gone.

First, I never disagreed with your ecological arguement. (Although, I think being a parent made my life less impactful, but not enough to compensate for the impact of even one of the humans I helped add to the planet)

and second, I said my life was simpler "in some ways"

yes, kids are more expensive than dogs. Hopefully they are around longer. No kids and no dogs are obviously even cheaper.

there are a variety of social and economic roles that I need other people to fill. Some of them used to be filled by my kids (we just hired people to do drywall. As a severe introvert this disrupted my life and stressed me out. Last time we did drywall, we used our home grown crew. Pretty sure it was cheaper, definitely far less stressful, totally on my schedule.) also, as stated, raising kids made it SIMPLE for me to avoid many societal expectations that I wished to avoid. Yes, I can still avoid them, but without the socially acceptable excuse, people tend to make it difficult and complicated.

so in some ways my life was simpler. It was also more expensive and more complex (although richer - like your food analogy). The complexities and demands of raising kids were for the most part more pleasant for me than the complexities and demands of being an empty nester in American society. I was only a childless adult for 5 years, and I was mostly in school or working poor, so no real useful data on my life there.

Ultralight
12-4-18, 9:43am
Last night we concluded a course of this NWEI program with a potluck. Here is picture of this course's itty bitty community of simple living folks.

2610

herbgeek
12-4-18, 12:06pm
Everyone is smiling except one unhappy person. :D

Alan
12-4-18, 12:09pm
Everyone is smiling except one unhappy person. :DLooks like someone poked him in the eye.

Float On
12-4-18, 1:06pm
Last night we concluded a course of this NWEI program with a potluck. Here is picture of this course's itty bitty community of simple living folks.

2610

Good to see someone has a very simple spoon/fork combo utensil on a bring your own real plate (not styrofoam) but that looks like a disposable water bottle at the edge of the photo. Someone failed the course! Start over!

Ultralight
12-4-18, 2:38pm
Looks like someone poked him in the eye.

That is fairly accurate.

Ultralight
12-4-18, 2:41pm
Good to see someone has a very simple spoon/fork combo utensil on a bring your own real plate (not styrofoam) but that looks like a disposable water bottle at the edge of the photo. Someone failed the course! Start over!

That is my sporknife.

That bottle is one the guy actually reuses.

Alan
12-4-18, 3:38pm
That is fairly accurate.
My second choice was that someone had taken minimalism too far.

Ultralight
12-4-18, 3:43pm
My second choice was that someone had taken minimalism too far.

Ummm, no.

I had to have an ophthalmological surgery done. And things like the numbing drops and lidocaine don't work on me. And I told them this. So when they started the procedure I asked: "Do you have any tongue suppressors?"

The nurse said: "No... no we don't. But I can give you a wad of gauze to bite down on."

She stuffed that in my mouth. And lemme tell ya... I needed it. It was like civil war surgery.

Teacher Terry
12-4-18, 4:44pm
UL, I had something similar twice. I once stepped on a sewing needle imbedded into shag carpet. The entire thing was in my heel. They had to cut the heal open to pull it out. The numbing didn’t work and they were too busy to wait for another shot to take effect. When I had my first child the shot they gave me for the episiotomy froze my foot instead. So I was sewn up with no numbing. Not fun.

Ultralight
12-4-18, 5:04pm
UL, I had something similar twice. I once stepped on a sewing needle imbedded into shag carpet. The entire thing was in my heel. They had to cut the heal open to pull it out. The numbing didn’t work and they were too busy to wait for another shot to take effect. When I had my first child the shot they gave me for the episiotomy froze my foot instead. So I was sewn up with no numbing. Not fun.

Dang!! That sounds bad.

I just had a really bad stye that would not go away. So the doctor was like: "Let's cut!" haha

Tammy
12-4-18, 8:50pm
If only the needle incident had happened just prior to delivery - you would have been all set for that needle removal. 😄

Teacher Terry
12-4-18, 9:55pm
Tammy, I never thought of that! In the delivery incident I was only 19 and the doctor had no clue until it was over and he accidentally bumped my foot and was horrified. He asked why I didn’t say anything. I was young and scared. Back then your husband couldn’t be in the delivery room.

jp1
12-4-18, 10:03pm
It's a shame this event wasn't a month and 5 days ago. You could have seriously rocked the pirate guy look for Halloween! Arrrgh!

Ultralight
12-5-18, 6:20am
It's a shame this event wasn't a month and 5 days ago. You could have seriously rocked the pirate guy look for Halloween! Arrrgh!

I thought about that too. haha

What sucks is that my depth perception is bad with the patch. When I am not wearing the patch my eye's bloody/weepy condition impairs my vision.

I hope I will be better in about 4 days, like ool' sawbones said.

Tenngal
12-5-18, 10:24am
Last night we concluded a course of this NWEI program with a potluck. Here is picture of this course's itty bitty community of simple living folks.

2610


Nice pic of a great looking crew.........

jp1
12-5-18, 9:54pm
I hope I will be better in about 4 days, like ool' sawbones said.

MBS's thug was your doctor???

Water&Air
9-9-19, 3:45pm
You only know what you know. So you join a class, read a book and talk to a friend. You do this a lot, let it rest, change a little and then start the process over again. We all do it differently … over time it becomes a new habit and way of life and you don't really miss what you had or did not have before the idea of simple living came your way. More women in the class does not surprise me at all … its the way we think and are socialized. Nothing wrong with this, and nothing wrong processing differently. Its just one more way we gain information to create change in our lives. I think it is a great idea to facilitate a class … even though its all women :-). I think the real questions is how to engage those not participating.

Also, remember all those women probably have someone in their lives that are male, or an introvert or whatever and are modeling/sharing their experiences. So they will have influence on other folks and your class will reach further than you think. I am so thankful that a group of women came together to work on budgeting 20 years ago and my simple life began to take shape.