View Full Version : Building shutting down at work (and can they do this?)
frugalone
2-20-18, 12:34pm
First I will ask: Does anyone on this board work for OSHA or know about employment laws?
I apologize in advance if I sound a little crazy, but my spouse has been ill for 5 days and I'm pretty upset about a different work situation. But here goes:
We have found out that an underground transformer right behind our building on campus could possibly "blow" or just quit working at any time. This will mean a total shutdown of our library. We'll have no power, no AC, no internet. We've been told we'll temporarily move to another building. BUT, if anyone should need a book, they think we're going to come over here in the dark, in summer with no AC, no backup power, and pull books for people.
Is this legal? Can they make us do that? My spouse (who used to work in the construction field) says no way--there are safety laws in place preventing people from entering a building under these conditions. This is why I'm asking about OSHA. Because I plan to report my employer if they think they're going to force us to do this.
Frankly, I cannot see why they don't either 1) lay everyone off for the period of time the building will be closed; or 2) talk to another college just blocks away, with whom we share tuition reimbursement and a common bookstore. Why can't people use their library in the interim?
The other thing they said is everyone should be taking vacation time during this period. I'll be off a week in June, but I don't have enough vacation time to take off more. Can an employer tell you when to take your vacation time?
Thanks for listening.
Not sure what the US labour law might say but the overriding issue is that the situation is unsafe at present which will negate almost any standard legal response.
In Canada, plant shutdowns are not unusual at all. My SonIL usually waited to see when the shutdown took place to plan his time off and coordinated with DD's flexible time off provided no one else with seniority above hers claimed it first.
Since this will impact a number of people, I would wait to see what really takes place as others will have something to say.
iris lilies
2-20-18, 3:52pm
I wont address the safety issue since I dont know answers although I have worked in plenty of libraries without AC and in the dark when the power goes out. But granted, that doesnt last long, no more than a day.
Absent any specific laws of your state that I dont know about, I will say yes, your employer can tell you when to use your vacation.
I do not understand your point of view here which seems to hold two conflicting views which are 1) lay off everyone—good 2) everyone takes vacation—bad.
I really cannot imagine a situation where every employee wants to be laid off. That means no pay. Why do you think that is a good idea? Perhaps I am not understanding your point of view.
My library had a similar issue for about two weeks, associated with construction, and unplanned. We allowed staff to take any of these options:
1) use vacation time
2) take off time without pay
3) work at another library location
One of my favorite (Not) employees reminded me that she would be taking vacation only when it was convenient for her.
Dont be that person.
It's not that I think vacation is bad. It's that I don't have the vacation time to take. In my state, if you get laid off, you can collect unemployment compensation. It's just an option; perhaps I am mistaken about the conditions under which one can use it.
My POV is that I don't see the point in a library-that-isn't-a-library. Not only do people come here for books and other media, it is one of the few computer labs on campus, including one that is open round-the-clock.
If management's concern is access to print materials and serving patrons, it would make the most sense to make a deal with the other college and let our students use their library.
I wont address the safety issue since I dont know answers although I have worked in plenty of libraries without AC and in the dark when the power goes out. But granted, that doesnt last long, no more than a day.
Absent any specific laws of your state that I dont know about, I will say yes, your employer can tell you when to use your vacation.
I do not understand your point of view here which seems to hold two conflicting views which are 1) lay off everyone—good 2) everyone takes vacation—bad.
I really cannot imagine a situation where every employee wants to be laid off. That means no pay. Why do you think that is a good idea? Perhaps I am not understanding your point of view.
My library had a similar issue for about two weeks, associated with construction, and unplanned. We allowed staff to take any of these options:
1) use vacation time
2) take off time without pay
3) work at another library location
One of my favorite (Not) employees reminded me that she would be taking vacation only when it was convenient for her.
Dont be that person.
frugal-one
2-20-18, 4:29pm
Call OSHA and find out if this is ok.
iris lilies
2-20-18, 4:55pm
Oh ok, you think you would draw unemployment pay. Well ok, maybe. You know that isnt the same amount as your salary, right? It will be less.
It seems to me that your Library’s administration is keeping staff propped up to receive regular pay. That is the ideal situation for employees. More than once I have thought your library has the appearence of being run for the employees and this situation supports that.
iris lilies, you are probably correct about the situation and the employees. Not to divert from my own thread, but this situation can be both good and bad. Good because we all have jobs. Bad because all it takes is a change in administration and some of us might be out of a job. Others have told me this kind of thing is "not sustainable."
How long will your building be down?
In my state, if I understand it, one must be laid off for more than two weeks to receive pay. And it's at the current unemployment rates, which are quite a bit lower than normal wages. And, having used the weeks, if you then become unemployed that money is not available to you. (Although I don't think you should focus on that).
I assume if all electrical service is shut down to the building, that only personnel necessary to the work on the site - ex, maintenance personnel - would be allowed access.
They should get you big flashlights or lanterns if there are no windows so that you can find the books.
There are many people who work in jobs in the summer heat and some who work without electricity (state park rangers come to mind). I can't imagine there are laws mandating A/C. You are entitled to things like toilet facilities that are basic.
Libraries, and the human race, predate the invention of electricity. You will survive.
This is the job you've not been happy in for a long time isn't it? Or was it co-worker issues? Sorry that here is one more thing. A lot of things dictate when vacations happen. My husband's employer only had 8 weeks in the summer to fit everyone's vacations. One week everyone is off, my husband will be pissed off if he can't take his other weeks around that week. He hates split time off.
iris lilies
2-20-18, 8:12pm
This is the job you've not been happy in for a long time isn't it? Or was it co-worker issues? Sorry that here is one more thing. A lot of things dictate when vacations happen. My husband's employer only had 8 weeks in the summer to fit everyone's vacations. One week everyone is off, my husband will be pissed off if he can't take his other weeks around that week. He hates split time off.
Yeah, draconian vacation rules.
DH worked for a tree company. The first few years there he earned one week of paid vacation annually. And here is the tough part—he was expected to take that vacationin one week increments, no vacation hours or days used individually. They wanted him to use an entire week all at once.
We hold a lot of this company’s stock, making up about 8% of our assets They are doing well.
ToomuchStuff
2-20-18, 10:34pm
I don't understand this whole temporary shut down move for a transformer. Who does the transformer belong to? What is required to replace it? I ask because our power company can replace a transformer in around 24 hours on the pole and I would think if this is a planned thing that it might only be two or three days?
I have had to run summer camp at different sites 2 years now. It is a BIG deal to move everything for a camp out and then pack up and move back. But construction and renovation were essential. Then the hail storm a year ago May trashed northwest Denver and the school i was going to. Alot of change, touch and go, and in the end my 8 week camp became a 4 week camp, that cut my staff hours unless they wanted to go to another site, i had to float and cover vacation, but also got a nice vacation bonus out of it.
The point of this is that it happens. It does really suck but it happens. The people in charge are making a lot of decisions pretty fast in a situation like this. I got grumpy last summer over how stressful it was, but things break (in our case 100 windows in very old school building). I would focus on any safety concerns you have and work with the rest.
iris lilies
2-21-18, 9:32am
...
The point of this is that it happens. It does really suck but it happens. The people in charge are making a lot of decisions pretty fast in a situation like this. I got grumpy last summer over how stressful it was, but things break (in our case 100 windows in very old school building). I would focus on any safety concerns you have and work with the rest.
solid advice.
mschrisgo2
2-21-18, 1:00pm
First of all, the OSHA and Employment laws should be posted some where in your work place. Look for 3 laminated posters about 24x36 in. they usually end up on the backs of doors. Second, is this a public, i.e. state run, college/university? Check to see if Unemployment benefits are actually available to you. In California, in some years, they have not been. Third, yes, your employer can tell you when you will not work, i.e. take "vacation" time. [The University of California furloughed all employees for 10 days in late Dec/early Jan for many years. They saved a huge amount of electricity cost, at a time when most people wanted to be off any way.] If you don't accept your "vacation" pay for those days, they will be "Leave Without Pay." Fourth, if they say you cannot work because it it unsafe, etc. and are holding the job for you, you are not eligible for unemployment benefits; which are negligible anyway, probably about 25% of your normal pay, then they deduct taxes at your regular rate and you get almost nothing. Not something to aspire to. Fifth, sounds to me like you are wanting a kick to look for a different job. Go for it!!
They are saying 4-8 weeks. My understanding is that it takes nowhere near that long to replace a transformer, even if it's underground.
I get the feeling we're not being told the whole story here.
How long will your building be down?
In my state, if I understand it, one must be laid off for more than two weeks to receive pay. And it's at the current unemployment rates, which are quite a bit lower than normal wages. And, having used the weeks, if you then become unemployed that money is not available to you. (Although I don't think you should focus on that).
I assume if all electrical service is shut down to the building, that only personnel necessary to the work on the site - ex, maintenance personnel - would be allowed access.
There is a poster in the break room--don't know if that's the one you're referring to, but I'll check it out. It's a private institution.
I am always looking for another job, particularly on campus. I get very discouraged because there doesn't seem to be anything out there for me. (My employment history is a very long story...)
First of all, the OSHA and Employment laws should be posted some where in your work place. Look for 3 laminated posters about 24x36 in. they usually end up on the backs of doors. Second, is this a public, i.e. state run, college/university? Check to see if Unemployment benefits are actually available to you. In California, in some years, they have not been. Third, yes, your employer can tell you when you will not work, i.e. take "vacation" time. [The University of California furloughed all employees for 10 days in late Dec/early Jan for many years. They saved a huge amount of electricity cost, at a time when most people wanted to be off any way.] If you don't accept your "vacation" pay for those days, they will be "Leave Without Pay." Fourth, if they say you cannot work because it it unsafe, etc. and are holding the job for you, you are not eligible for unemployment benefits; which are negligible anyway, probably about 25% of your normal pay, then they deduct taxes at your regular rate and you get almost nothing. Not something to aspire to. Fifth, sounds to me like you are wanting a kick to look for a different job. Go for it!!
There are many people who work in jobs in the summer heat and some who work without electricity (state park rangers come to mind). I can't imagine there are laws mandating A/C. You are entitled to things like toilet facilities that are basic.
Libraries, and the human race, predate the invention of electricity. You will survive.
I cannot work in the summer heat w/o AC. I literally feel sick to my stomach on days when there is high humidity and heat combined. I believe there are laws regarding heat and A/C, i.e. providing minimum and maximum temperatures.
I don't understand this whole temporary shut down move for a transformer. Who does the transformer belong to? What is required to replace it? I ask because our power company can replace a transformer in around 24 hours on the pole and I would think if this is a planned thing that it might only be two or three days?
I've been told by more than one person that this 4-8 weeks time frame is bullcrap. I don't know who owns the transformer, the campus or the power company. It is possible that it's the campus, and if that's the case, lord love a duck. They eff up everything around here.
This is the job you've not been happy in for a long time isn't it? Or was it co-worker issues? Sorry that here is one more thing.
Thanks, yes, this is the job. Thankfully the co-worker got moved to another position. Though I have heard that he will be in the same room with the rest of my department when we are temporarily relocated. Looking forward to his annoying personal habits (i.e. nose-picking) and B.O.
Not.
I decided I don't know enough about construction to have opinions that are too settled. I thought our major construction could have been done faster (we closed early and started late which added up to 3 extra weeks off). Who knows if it is related work to the transformer, and add a little to the time for unexpected issues that always come up.
When I had 3 schools I supervised the road between them was under construction for 3 years I believe. What a pain, seems like these things take a very long time. But then I dated a project manager and it made more sense at least.
I may be totally wrong, but I think heat is required, but not cooling / air conditioning.
After you check the OSHA regs, you might find good info on the local codes- either city or county. That might be an avenue to explore re: occupation of a building with no power. I know it's not legal to occupy a HOME without power, but again, not sure if that applies to a commercialn building and also, one would not technically be living in a commercial building.
Also, just for fun - is there an employee handbook? The info about vacations could be in there.
Yes, there is an employee handbook. However, all it talks about re: vacation is how much you earn, the use-it-or-lose-it policy, and what happens when you leave employment at the college.
My spouse may be able to find those codes, having worked in construction years ago. He keeps reassuring me that this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.
They have a tendency around here to make a big fuss about everything.
I cannot work in the summer heat w/o AC. I literally feel sick to my stomach on days when there is high humidity and heat combined. I believe there are laws regarding heat and A/C, i.e. providing minimum and maximum temperatures.
First world problem. With time you would adapt.
I don't understand this whole temporary shut down move for a transformer. Who does the transformer belong to? What is required to replace it? I ask because our power company can replace a transformer in around 24 hours on the pole and I would think if this is a planned thing that it might only be two or three days?
I agree. There's more to the story that the OP is not being told. If all that needs to happen is a transformer get replaced it shouldn't take more than a day. One blew up in the street in front of my apartment in NYC years ago. Within a few hours Consolidated Edison had replaced it.
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