View Full Version : NOT Born in the USA?
What is your opinion about the law which bans foriegn born people from running for higher office (Pres. & VP)? Do you think it should continue to exist or be repealled? Are there certain circumstances where it should - or should not - be enforced? I always thought it was odd that a country which prides itself on being of "the worlds melting pot of varied immigrant origins" would have such a rule. In my own case, I was born in England while my Dad was stationed there (career Airforce). He was a US citizen and my Mom was a naturialized US citizen (German). I have lived for the most part in the US, serviced in the armed forces for a decade or so, and am a full US citizen but could not run for higher public office. Where as a pregnant Pakastani woman on holiday here could give birth, automaticly making the child a Born in the USA citizen, go back to Pakastan and raise the child, who later could move to the US as an adult and run for Pres. That doesn't seem right to me. So should the "not born in the USA" rule be changed to encompass people like me?
goldensmom
5-17-11, 2:08pm
It is not a rule/law to be repealed. The natural born citizen qualification for President and Vice President is in the U. S. Constitution, Section 1, Article Two, so it would necessitate a constitutional amendment. It would not be an easy thing to do. There is an age requirement as well, 35.
Spartana, I'm pretty sure you could run for President. Your parents were stationed in England in the AF, they weren't expats. Remember, John McCain wasn't born in the US either, although that didn't seem to bother the tea partiers as much as imagining/pretending President Obama wasn't born here. I guess it was his name, or the color of his skin, or something. Or maybe they just don't know Hawaii is a state. Regardless, I think you could run.
Spartana, I'm pretty sure you could run for President. Your parents were stationed in England in the AF, they weren't expats. Remember, John McCain wasn't born in the US either, although that didn't seem to bother the tea partiers as much as imagining/pretending President Obama wasn't born here. I guess it was his name, or the color of his skin, or something. Or maybe they just don't know Hawaii is a state. Regardless, I think you could run.
I think McCain was born on a US military base and therefore on US soil. I wasn't - born in an civilian hospital. I know that I can actually qualify for dual citizenship with Britain if I wanted. But irregardless of me personally, what do people think of the amendment (which was probably put in there to keep the bloody English from ruling after the Revolution :-)!). Change it? Keep it? Modify it for some?
I think you're incorrect in your assumption that merely being born in another country dis-qualifies you for election to the office of President or Vice President.
A memorandum to Congress dated April 3, 2009, written by the Congressional Research Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Research_Service), states:
Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase "natural-born subject" in England and in the Colonies in the 1700s, the clause's apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in enacting the Naturalization Act of 1790 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790) (expressly defining the term "natural born citizen" to include a person born abroad to parents who are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that the phrase "natural born Citizen" would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship "at birth" or "by birth".
It is not a rule/law to be repealed. The natural born citizen qualification for President and Vice President is in the U. S. Constitution, Section 1, Article Two, so it would necessitate a constitutional amendment. It would not be an easy thing to do. There is an age requirement as well, 35.
That law also states naturalized. So anyone who is a US citizen at birth. example a friend of mine married to a Mexicana has a son with dual citizenship is eligible to run for president. Since he is a citizen by birth (naturalized) even though not born on US soil
... Remember, John McCain wasn't born in the US either, although that didn't seem to bother the tea partiers as much as imagining/pretending President Obama wasn't born here. I guess it was his name, or the color of his skin, or something. Or maybe they just don't know Hawaii is a state...
Maybe it was his politics, and his politics alone, that stirs the tea party. Not his name, race, or the extreme ignorance of the populace not knowing how many states are in the union.
I think you're incorrect in your assumption that merely being born in another country dis-qualifies you for election to the office of President or Vice President.
A memorandum to Congress dated April 3, 2009, written by the Congressional Research Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Research_Service), states:
Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase "natural-born subject" in England and in the Colonies in the 1700s, the clause's apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in enacting the Naturalization Act of 1790 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790) (expressly defining the term "natural born citizen" to include a person born abroad to parents who are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that the phrase "natural born Citizen" would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship "at birth" or "by birth".
That's good to know - thanks. "Queen She-Rah, Supreme Ruler of the Free World? Yeah, sounds right :-)! Now my older brother was born before my Mom was a nautralized US citizen so, if he hadn't been born in the USA (he was) I take it that he wouldn't have the "by birth" right of citizenship.
That's good to know - thanks. "Queen She-Rah, Supreme Ruler of the Free World? Yeah, sounds right :-)! Now my older brother was born before my Mom was a nautralized US citizen so, if he hadn't been born in the USA (he was) I take it that he wouldn't have the "by birth" right of citizenship.
That's how I read it.
Maybe it was his politics, and his politics alone, that stirs the tea party. Not his name, race, or the extreme ignorance of the populace not knowing how many states are in the union.
No, it couldn't be that! I have it on good authority from many on this site that racism is the only valid reason. (I think they got it from Janeane Garofalo and Keith Olbermann so it has to be true.)
goldensmom
5-17-11, 4:11pm
It is not a rule/law to be repealed. The natural born citizen qualification for President and Vice President is in the U. S. Constitution, Section 1, Article Two, so it would necessitate a constitutional amendment. It would not be an easy thing to do. There is an age requirement as well, 35.
That law also states naturalized. So anyone who is a US citizen at birth. example a friend of mine married to a Mexicana has a son with dual citizenship is eligible to run for president. Since he is a citizen by birth (naturalized) even though not born on US soil
Poco Pelo, just for my own information, I cannot find the reference to ‘naturalized citizen’ in the qualification for president/vice-president in the Section 1, Article 2, I only find 'natural citizen'. What am I missing?
My parents were concerned enough about it to have my mother (Italian citizen at the time) flown to the US to have me. My father (US citizen) and her were stationed in Libya (also AF).
I do not think the rule should be changed. I wish there was a requirement that you had to have served in the military.
Bastelmutti
5-19-11, 1:12pm
That's good to know - thanks. "Queen She-Rah, Supreme Ruler of the Free World? Yeah, sounds right :-)! Now my older brother was born before my Mom was a nautralized US citizen so, if he hadn't been born in the USA (he was) I take it that he wouldn't have the "by birth" right of citizenship.
I'm not so sure. Your dad was a US citizen, so I think he would have had US citizenship through your dad.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60a RCRD
I wish there was a requirement that you had to have served in the military.
Ditto.
I'm not so sure. Your dad was a US citizen, so I think he would have had US citizenship through your dad.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60a RCRD
Thanks for the site. I'll look up what the rule was for the year I was born. All I know is that when I was around 14 I had applied for a US passport and was denied (where as my Mom, Brother and sister weren't) and my Mom had to go thru some long rigamarole with getting birth records from Britain and dealing with the British embassy and US passport office. Took close to a year before I was issued a US passport even though both my parents were citizens when I was born.
Bastelmutti
5-19-11, 5:40pm
Very interesting. I keep tabs on this issue since we have situations like this in my family, too. I am the child of naturalized citizens, born in US, so a US citizen, but now I am a dual citizen. DH is a US citizen. One of my kids was born abroad (but not eligible for citizenship of the country where she was born - it's not by birth there). The other kid was born here. Both are "natural born" US citizens according to US law when they were born.
What is your opinion about the law which bans foriegn born people from running for higher office (Pres. & VP)?
At this point in our history I feel like anything that limits us from getting the very best leadership we can get is self defeating. Loyalties are learned behavior, not innate. We need some serious talent and gray matter right now. Who cares where that comes from? It just doesn't seem like we have that luxury anymore.
At this point in our history I feel like anything that limits us from getting the very best leadership we can get is self defeating. Loyalties are learned behavior, not innate. We need some serious talent and gray matter right now. Who cares where that comes from? It just doesn't seem like we have that luxury anymore.
That's always been my feeling too. Also, because we are an immigrant nation, I think the opportunity should be open to all US citizens irregardless of their origins. There are people, born elsewhere to non-US parents, who have lived in this country since day 2 (or 3 or 4 :-)!) of their lives, served in the military or some public service withing the US Government (often times for decades) and yet were unable to hold a high public office.
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