View Full Version : Obama seeks Palestine state on 1967 borders
Well, someone finally said it (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/05/2011519145837856559.html) - "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognised borders are established for both states. "The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state. As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat."
I think Obama once again has shown real leadership by making this statement.
If there is ever to be peace then Israel should abide by the rule of law and stop the settlements that are clearly illegal.
What do you think? Is Israel immune to world opinion, did Obama overstep his authority?
Peace
Well, someone finally said it (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/05/2011519145837856559.html) - "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognised borders are established for both states. "The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state. As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat."
I think Obama once again has shown real leadership by making this statement.
If there is ever to be peace then Israel should abide by the rule of law and stop the settlements that are clearly illegal.
What do you think? Is Israel immune to world opinion, did Obama overstep his authority?
Peace
May it go from Obama's lips to God's ear.
Twill be interesting to see what happens with this.
What do you think? Is Israel immune to world opinion, did Obama overstep his authority?
Yes and yes. I'm glad he said it, but I do think the US continually oversteps its bounds in that part of the world. I wish we could extricate ourselves from that part of the world and let the people there settle their own differences. Mr. Obama is certainly not responsible for getting us involved in the middle east. I've not been a fan of his foreign policy so far, but this is an interesting take on it. I'm curious to see what backlash there is and how this plays out. How much should we read into the "by itself" part of the statement? That's the real question to me. If the Iranian nuclear program continues to progress I suspect we will know the answer fairly soon.
Israel has too many friends in the US. Nothing will change.
This takes our “reset” diplomacy concept to its logical extreme. All we need to do is rip a few chapters out of the history books and indulge in some sixties nostalgia. But why the 1967 borders? Why not 1973 or 1948? Why not return it all to the Turks or British, there being no Byzantines, Romans or Babylonians available to press a prior claim? Should we lead by example and withdraw to our 1846 border with Mexico?
I haven't kept up with the details of the Palestine/Israel disputes through the years but it is pretty obvious that it is responsible for most of our problems in the Middle East. There have been attempt after attempt to try an negotiate some sort of lasting settlement which seem to last only a short period of time. With regard to the '67 borders, I think that is from Security Council Resolution 242 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242)whi ch called for "withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict," avoiding use of "the territories" and leaving the sides to debate whether this meant Israel could keep some areas.
From what I can figure out this is simply a pre-text for more of the never-ending negotiations that will obviously once again occur. I think the only real answer is for the world community to use their influence to establish some sort Palestinian State and an agreement that has real meaningful penalties for either side that breaks the truce. That means basically the US has got to treat Israel in the same manner it would any other nation - which has not been the case......ever.
Once again we see influence and religion being the root cause of most of our worlds troubles.
Peace
I've thought for a while that insufficient fealty to Israel was the most likely hurdle to President Obama's reelection. I think my opinion was confirmed today.
poetry_writer
5-21-11, 10:14am
Obama is attempting to appease nations that encourage terrorism. Those countries are filled with violent people. You cannot negotiate with them.
Obama is attempting to appease nations that encourage terrorism. Those countries are filled with violent people. You cannot negotiate with them.
Labeling an entire countries populace as "Violent people" based on a few extremests is wrong. I certainly wouldn't want all the citizens of the US judged as violent terrorists because a couple of guys who were both Americans and christians blew up a federal building in Oklahoma as a terrorist act.
poetry_writer
5-21-11, 12:16pm
Labeling an entire countries populace as "Violent people" based on a few extremests is wrong. I certainly wouldn't want all the citizens of the US judged as violent terrorists because a couple of guys who were both Americans and christians blew up a federal building in Oklahoma as a terrorist act.
Its much more than just a few that makes the countries violent. There are thousands.
Obama is attempting to appease nations that encourage terrorism. Those countries are filled with violent people. You cannot negotiate with them.
It's more than just the individual people involved, Hamas, the ruling government of Palestine has called for the eradication of Israel, as has the ruling government of several other countries in the area.
It's no longer a given that Egypt will provide a voice of moderation in the region with it's government still taking shape and looking more and more like it will be controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood. When President Obama said that "Israel must be able to defend itself, by itself.." some of those hostile governments may assume that Israel is fair game.
Plus, his demand that Israel negotiate with Hamas is a clear contradiction of our own policies of not negotiating with terrorists. What kind of arrogance does it take to suggest such a thing?
If peace is our desire, I think we're sending the wrong signal to the world.
Israel has too many friends in the US. Nothing will change.
When you boil it all down that sounds about right because alot of those friends are in some pretty high places. If anything the support of Israel will probably just shift to a behind the scenes effort.
According to excerpts of speeches by President GW Bush, it's exactly the same stance he took. It seems reasonable to me: 1967 as a starting point--or at least as reasonable as can be considering the whole construct is a huge sticky, unresolvable mess. I'm with those who would like to see us ease out of the region.
I think the 1967 borders with "mutually agreed upon swaps" is the key. And your right Jane, this administration is following the lead of it's predecessor(s). Neither Bush nor Obama tried to dump the 44 years of negotiations that have gone on since 1967, but highlighting the cooperation that has taken place doesn't make for a very powerful soundbite.
I did hear an interview with the former Israeli Ambassador on the radio today. Didn't catch the whole thing, but his position struck me as being pretty inflexible.
I think the 1967 borders with "mutually agreed upon swaps" is the key. And your right Jane, this administration is following the lead of it's predecessor(s). Neither Bush nor Obama tried to dump the 44 years of negotiations that have gone on since 1967, but highlighting the cooperation that has taken place doesn't make for a very powerful soundbite.
I did hear an interview with the former Israeli Ambassador on the radio today. Didn't catch the whole thing, but his position struck me as being pretty inflexible.
If I'm not mistaken, Israel has given back area's they previously acquired after being attacked by neighboring countries only to have that land used as staging areas for further attacks on them.
Until the leaders of the Arab world stop calling for the complete eradication of Israel, it's foolish to try to appease them.
Mangano's Gold
5-24-11, 12:35am
Does this mean we are going to stop giving Israel $4 billion (or whatver it is) a year in "foreign aid"? Now THAT would be courageous!
Israel is one of the most innovative countries in the world. They have an entreprenurial and dynamic economy. They don't need our money.
Just please, no war with Iran. Thumbs up to Obama for keeping us out of that one...so far.
I don't know about anyone else, but Iran is what worries me the most. As they continue to develop a nuclear program the threat to Israel increases. At some point the Israelis will almost certainly feel the threat is too great and launch a strike to take out Iran's nuclear facilities. If/when that happens the lid could blow off everything in the Middle East. Where would the US be then?
That scenario has already played out in Syria in 2007 and Iraq in 1981.
Iran learned from those examples and, according to der Spiegal, (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,658663-7,00.html)built their nuclear facilities so deep underground that a conventional bombing strike is unlikely to be anything more than a nuisance. I'd look for a more high tech solution from Israel this time, ala Stuxnet (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9185919/Is_Stuxnet_the_best_malware_ever_?taxonomyId=85&pageNumber=1).
Ya know Alan, you're probably right. I sometimes get stuck in two dimensional, 20th century thought patterns. It still appears there may have been a US-Israeli collaboration behind the scenes.
Mangano's Gold
5-24-11, 2:33pm
The US is in enough Middle Eastern wars, we don't need another.
If Iran gets the bomb we'll have to live with it. Pakistan has the bomb and they don't even have running water in parts of the country.
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