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poetry_writer
6-18-11, 10:38am
I am trying to apply for financial assistance for a visit to the ER. The hospital wants all my info. DL #, SS#, Last years income tax statement. My bank account #s. Everything. I have a problem with this, especially the bank account info being put on a piece of paper that many could access. Is this common?

poetry_writer
6-18-11, 11:03am
They also wanted access to my credit report. I thought that was so odd till i found this online:

In a development that consumer groups say raises privacy issues, a growing number of hospitals are mining patients' personal financial information to figure out how likely they are to pay their bills.
Some hospitals are peering into patients' credit reports, which contain information on people's lines of credit, debts and payment histories. Other hospitals are contracting with outside services that predict a patient's income and whether he or she is likely to walk away from a medical bill. Hospitals often use these services when patients are uninsured or have big out-of-pocket costs despite having health insurance.
Hospitals say the practice helps them identify which patients to pursue actively for payment because they can afford to pay. They say it also allows them to figure out more quickly which patients are eligible for charity care or assistance programs."...............

Nice! They want to actively pursue and harrass those who have paid their bills on time.

peggy
6-18-11, 11:17am
Well, since medical bills can very easily be as high as a mortgage I'm not surprised hospitals are using the same tools a mortgage company uses. Not saying it's right, just saying one hospital stay shouldn't cost as much as a house!

Zigzagman
6-18-11, 12:58pm
I have no idea your situation but I would avoid the ER if at all possible. The costs in the ER are so extremely high that maybe you could find an alternative? Although I have good insurance (pay over $15k per year) I have always viewed the ER as emergency care only.

Peace

goldensmom
6-18-11, 2:05pm
Your post states that you are applying for financial assistance through the hospital. If this is an eligibility program similar to a state agency, i.e., Medicaid, then yes that is typical, invasive but typical.

Float On
6-18-11, 4:55pm
Yes, they need everything. And my advice is to make 3 copies of everything you send them because they will lose the first 2 copies. apparently the black hole has a dirrect wormhole link to hospital accounting departments. No fear of your numbers being used for ill gain - they lose them too fast for that to happen. Keep after them even if they deny you the first time, keep stating your case of why you can't pay or need reduced payments. It may take 6 months to over a year but eventually they'll work with you.

Bronxboy
6-18-11, 5:16pm
I have no idea your situation but I would avoid the ER if at all possible. The costs in the ER are so extremely high that maybe you could find an alternative? Although I have good insurance (pay over $15k per year) I have always viewed the ER as emergency care only.
Agreed. Know where your local urgent care center or medical practice with late hours is before you need it.

We've had probably 10 urgent care center visits in 15 years, but only three ER visits. At least one of the ER visits could have been handled by urgent care.

poetry_writer
6-18-11, 6:11pm
Agreed. Know where your local urgent care center or medical practice with late hours is before you need it.

We've had probably 10 urgent care center visits in 15 years, but only three ER visits. At least one of the ER visits could have been handled by urgent care.

Not even sure what an urgent care center is, unless its one of those "doc in the box" clinics you walk in. Those we have here are very expensive. This particular visit was not something I would have used anything but the ER for....and...no one is getting my bank account info. It aint happening. Just curious if this was a common question...plus a credit check (which would have revealed last years reality, not this years) and other very personal info.

poetry_writer
6-18-11, 6:12pm
I have no idea your situation but I would avoid the ER if at all possible. The costs in the ER are so extremely high that maybe you could find an alternative? Although I have good insurance (pay over $15k per year) I have always viewed the ER as emergency care only.

Peace

Of course you would avoid the ER. You have insurance. I dont. No one is fond of using it for healthcare issues but this particular issue an ER visit was needed...and, even if my symptoms had been less scary , there is little if any alternative to using the ER for your care. Its pathetic.

iris lily
6-18-11, 6:19pm
Of course you would avoid the ER. You have insurance. I dont. No one is fond of using it for healthcare issues but this particular issue an ER visit was needed...and, even if my symptoms had been less scary , there is little if any alternative to using the ER for your care. Its pathetic.

I thought his point was that OTHER points of service are cheaper if you are paying the bill yourself.

Zigzagman
6-18-11, 6:37pm
Of course you would avoid the ER. You have insurance. I dont. No one is fond of using it for healthcare issues but this particular issue an ER visit was needed...and, even if my symptoms had been less scary , there is little if any alternative to using the ER for your care. Its pathetic.

I totally agree. I feel for you and so many people that have done everything right and just do not have access to health insurance or simply cannot afford it.

Please, Please, Please, Please..... we simply have to quit looking at healthcare as option. Everyone deserves decent healthcare - we are a wealthy nation. There is no excuse for our healthcare system.

As far as the docs and information from you. I'm sure that they are simply looking at it as business transaction - healthcare is a business and they operate like one.

I feel very fortunate not to have financial problems so far in my life. But I know that one simple serious health incident or financial tsunami and I would be in exactly the same situation as yourself. I hope you get some cooperation. I googled the topic and noticed that many hospitals routinely give a 50% discount for those that do not have insurance and this is part of the financial assistance process. Good Luck.

Peace

Zigzagman
6-18-11, 6:48pm
I thought his point was that OTHER points of service are cheaper if you are paying the bill yourself.

That was indeed my point. I know they just recently open a Emergency Care business in our little town - it is not able to handle things like heart attacks, strokes, that kind of stuff but can deal with most day-to-day problems.

Peace

poetry_writer
6-19-11, 8:32pm
Your post states that you are applying for financial assistance through the hospital. If this is an eligibility program similar to a state agency, i.e., Medicaid, then yes that is typical, invasive but typical.

It isnt a state agency. It is the hospitals program for those who dont qualify for Medicaid or other govt programs.

poetry_writer
6-19-11, 8:36pm
I totally agree. I feel for you and so many people that have done everything right and just do not have access to health insurance or simply cannot afford it.

Please, Please, Please, Please..... we simply have to quit looking at healthcare as option. Everyone deserves decent healthcare - we are a wealthy nation. There is no excuse for our healthcare system.

As far as the docs and information from you. I'm sure that they are simply looking at it as business transaction - healthcare is a business and they operate like one.

I feel very fortunate not to have financial problems so far in my life. But I know that one simple serious health incident or financial tsunami and I would be in exactly the same situation as yourself. I hope you get some cooperation. I googled the topic and noticed that many hospitals routinely give a 50% discount for those that do not have insurance and this is part of the financial assistance process. Good Luck.

Peace

I agree. This hospital wont even discuss with me until they get all my info. I have a friends whos husband has been in the hospital for two months, and they have no insurance. Its a terrible crisis in this country. Thanks for all the replies and advice.

jp1
6-20-11, 9:04pm
While I agree that it's invasive for a hospital to ask for all this info, the reality is that they're a business and are trying to do due dilligence to try and protect their bottom line. Whether we like it or not most hospitals in the US are for profit entities.

You're right to be concerned about the loss of your personally identifiable information, However, hospitals, as well as anyone with personal info, are required by law to protect that info and to notify and offer credit monitoring to anyone whose info has been lost, whether by an intentional hacker or just by negligence on their part. Hospitals are keenly aware of this responsibility since they have the added burden of protecting not just your financial info, but also your confidential health information.

As for Bronxboy's mention of urgent care facillities, I've utilized one here a couple of times. Basically they offer same day service for matters that require immediate attention but aren't imminently life threatening. When I went it was $250/visit plus whatever lab costs I may have had (I didn't need any). Not cheap, but certainly cheaper than the $1500 bill I had at an ER around the same time a couple of years ago after I clobbered my shin getting on a bus and needed stitches and a tetanus shot on a Sunday evening. These facilities may not exist where you are. I was unaware of them until moving to CA, where they seem to be commonplace.

rodeosweetheart
6-21-11, 11:46am
Hey poetry writer, I feel your pain. We are all one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, as things stand.

The doc in the boxes are great for things like ear aches, stitches, diagnosis of pneumonia and fractures (they seem to all have x-rays, at least ones I have been to) and walk in stuff in general. I like them a lot if you do not have a regular doc or if you have a regular doc and you need something the regular doc does not have, like a chest x-ray. A child's earache, strep throat culture on Easter Sunday--they are perfect for these.

If you have chest pain or airway problems, do not go to the doc in box, go right to hospital ER as they are not set up for that. With breathing issues like asthma, if you know yourself really well, you might be able to do doc in box and get a breathing treatment and an antibiotic, but that is really cutting it close--last time I tried that they wante dto send me in an ambulance to the ER, so you have wasted valuable time and could be doing yourself amajor disservice. If you are an asthmatic or COPD, just go to the ER. That is what they tell me, anyway.

And if that is your case, just go. Don't worry about the money, your life is more valuable.

Well, you will worry about the money, but that can come later.

poetry_writer
6-21-11, 11:58am
Hey poetry writer, I feel your pain. We are all one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, as things stand.

The doc in the boxes are great for things like ear aches, stitches, diagnosis of pneumonia and fractures (they seem to all have x-rays, at least ones I have been to) and walk in stuff in general. I like them a lot if you do not have a regular doc or if you have a regular doc and you need something the regular doc does not have, like a chest x-ray. A child's earache, strep throat culture on Easter Sunday--they are perfect for these.

If you have chest pain or airway problems, do not go to the doc in box, go right to hospital ER as they are not set up for that. With breathing issues like asthma, if you know yourself really well, you might be able to do doc in box and get a breathing treatment and an antibiotic, but that is really cutting it close--last time I tried that they wante dto send me in an ambulance to the ER, so you have wasted valuable time and could be doing yourself amajor disservice. If you are an asthmatic or COPD, just go to the ER. That is what they tell me, anyway.

And if that is your case, just go. Don't worry about the money, your life is more valuable.

Well, you will worry about the money, but that can come later.


You almost have to diagnose yourself before you decide where to go for help. A specialist once wanted $350 for me to walk in his door (i declined). I know one family who received a bill for over a million dollars after a loved one died after several months in ICU. They simply tossed it in the trash. No answers to this crisis....

loosechickens
6-21-11, 2:40pm
well, there ARE answers to this crisis, and every other western democracy sees to it that all its citizens have access to care, and no families are bankrupted, or people dying because they can't afford to go to a doctor, and arrive at an emergency room when it's way too late to correct their problems.

we don't have to look any further away than Canada and all the European nations to see no one going without care, yet, in this country, we seem content to have fifty million people or more with no insurance, many more underinsured, or at the mercy of profit making insurance company gatekeepers who decide whether or not they can be covered for treatment of every specific thing. Not to mention having three quarters of a million American families going bankrupt every year because of medical bills, when just across the border in Canada, no families have to face that situation.

I feel very badly for you, and feel badly for all the others in your situation. This problem CAN be solved. We just don't have the collective will to make it happen. Far easier to allow ourselves to be warned away by cries of "creeping socialism", as though our public libraries, public schools, roads, bridges, Social Security and Medicare aren't socialist........... to the benefit of the folks who are making lots and lots of money in our bloated "health care" (what an oxymoron) system.

axis9313
6-21-11, 2:58pm
Poetry Writer - who tossed the million dollar bill in the trash? The hospital or the family of the deceased? Wouldn't it be the deceased's bill anyway and payment come out of his estate or something?

poetry_writer
6-25-11, 4:34pm
Poetry Writer - who tossed the million dollar bill in the trash? The hospital or the family of the deceased? Wouldn't it be the deceased's bill anyway and payment come out of his estate or something?

His family did. Like the poor man had an estate of a million dollars.....

puglogic
6-27-11, 11:33pm
So.... (I'm obviously missing something here) .....the hospital didn't deserve to be paid anything for the services it provided in trying to save the man's life? Who ends up paying in situations like that?

poetry_writer
6-28-11, 4:22pm
So.... (I'm obviously missing something here) .....the hospital didn't deserve to be paid anything for the services it provided in trying to save the man's life? Who ends up paying in situations like that?

No one. Who has a million or so extra dollars? Not sure how the hospital handles it, but those people certainly couldnt pay it.

loosechickens
6-28-11, 8:28pm
Of course someone pays it. You pay it, and I pay it, and other people pay it, both in increased health care costs, increased insurance costs, expenditures of taxpayer money, etc. If the hospital has to write off THAT bill, then it charges more to insurance companies, other patients, gets subsidies from the government, etc.

We always pay. We pay if we have a universal health care program as every other Western democracy does, and we pay if we don't. The difference is that with universal health care for everyone, everyone is covered, we all pay and no one goes without care, and without universal health care, we pay lots and lots and lots of money (more than double what other free countries pay), for very spotty care, fifty million people with no health care coverage, many more who are underinsured, and an almost unworkable system.

You pay either way, unfortunately, but in the process, a lot of people go without care or get so sick BEFORE they get care, that costs skyrocket when they do. JMHO, but one shared by a huge number of people.

If the hospital works a deal with you, it makes up that money it didn't get somewhere, from someone else. You get a deal, someone else pays. But the costs never just "go away", unfortunately.

For myself, I would prefer that we all pay taxes for a good, universal health care plan that covers everyone, as Canada and the European countries have, end up paying LESS overall for health care, with much better results, because in this country, some get very, very GOOD care, some get very little care, some get none at all, and 750,000 families in the U.S. go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. Medical bills that other people have to pay, one way or the other. To me, much better for us all to put into the pot, and have no one not getting care, no one going bankrupt, and no one without access to good preventative care, which would prevent a lot of the major health problems that many end up with.

poetry_writer
6-28-11, 8:53pm
Of course someone pays it. You pay it, and I pay it, and other people pay it, both in increased health care costs, increased insurance costs, expenditures of taxpayer money, etc. If the hospital has to write off THAT bill, then it charges more to insurance companies, other patients, gets subsidies from the government, etc.

We always pay. We pay if we have a universal health care program as every other Western democracy does, and we pay if we don't. The difference is that with universal health care for everyone, everyone is covered, we all pay and no one goes without care, and without universal health care, we pay lots and lots and lots of money (more than double what other free countries pay), for very spotty care, fifty million people with no health care coverage, many more who are underinsured, and an almost unworkable system.

You pay either way, unfortunately, but in the process, a lot of people go without care or get so sick BEFORE they get care, that costs skyrocket when they do. JMHO, but one shared by a huge number of people.

If the hospital works a deal with you, it makes up that money it didn't get somewhere, from someone else. You get a deal, someone else pays. But the costs never just "go away", unfortunately.

For myself, I would prefer that we all pay taxes for a good, universal health care plan that covers everyone, as Canada and the European countries have, end up paying LESS overall for health care, with much better results, because in this country, some get very, very GOOD care, some get very little care, some get none at all, and 750,000 families in the U.S. go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. Medical bills that other people have to pay, one way or the other. To me, much better for us all to put into the pot, and have no one not getting care, no one going bankrupt, and no one without access to good preventative care, which would prevent a lot of the major health problems that many end up with.

I agree. This particular family lost their loved one due to an accident. They had no way of paying such a bill themselves. So many people being uninsured and with no access to health care drains the entire system.

RosieTR
7-2-11, 3:56pm
I guess if the hospital just sent you a bill and you can pay it, then you don't need to give any info. If OTOH you want to work with the hospital program to reduce your bill or make payments on your bill over time, you'd probably have to set that up and then they would need your info. They would need your SSN# because of credit-reporting issues but I don't know why they'd need your driver's license. However, if you got a bill from them it's likely they have your credit info. It's possible they would need a list of your assets which would include your bank accounts and such, but I would find out a little more about that before giving that out. I have seen times when I was asked for various things such as a SSN# or driver's license from the doctor or something and when I inquired why exactly they needed that info, they back-pedaled and said they didn't actually need that particular piece of information. This may be the case here-maybe they want you to set up an automatic transfer for a payment plan in which case you'd need to provide your bank account and routing number, but it may be that they will accept a check in the mail (which has those numbers anyway). Best to ask for a specific reason, preferably in writing, for why they want any of the info you're objecting to. Best of luck.

As far as health care costs, I object to a lot of the upselling stuff they do. Sometimes you're in a hospital and they're giving you booties, and a bathrobe, and various little doohickeys which you don't really need, will never use again and are charged to your account with a healthy profit margin. At the time you don't know 1) what it costs and that 2) you can refuse. Later when you get the bill you can't exactly refuse to get a sippy cup even though you could have easily done without it or had your family bring something they got at the dollar store that works just as well.

flowerseverywhere
7-3-11, 2:19pm
Sometimes we get into situations that we have no control over. People lose jobs, or are assaulted or are left by a spouse with bills and no support. Bad things can happen to good people.

But, good people sometimes make choices that affect them- like choosing to drive a nice car, eat out, have fancy cellphones, internet access and big screen tv's and big cable packages but not pay for health insurance.

The second group are those that the hospital is interested in weeding out. The only way they know is to ask for personal info.


I know how expensive health insurance is because I pay for it and worked many years beyond FI to be able to do so, incidentally as a nurse caring for the sick. hard, hard work.

kfander
7-3-11, 6:30pm
well, there ARE answers to this crisis, and every other western democracy sees to it that all its citizens have access to care, and no families are bankrupted, or people dying because they can't afford to go to a doctor, and arrive at an emergency room when it's way too late to correct their problems.

No, instead they die because it's not in the collective interests of the community to waste health care on them because they don't fit into a particular statistical grouping, or because they have to wait so long for care that it's too late by the time they can find a place for them. All health care systems have pros and cons.

I am living in the United States. I don't earn a whole lot of money but I've been paying for a fairly inexpensive cancer policy because cancer is somewhat common in my family. The policy pays me directly, rather than the medical provider, beginning with reimbursing me for a PSA test once a year, which is probably the only reason that my prostate cancer was found as early as it was. Upon diagnosis, I collect a lump sum of $10,000; plus it will reimburse me for most of the expenses involved with treatment, up to $20,000 except for the surgery itself, if I choose the surgical option. But, because of our income, we qualify for free medical care through the hospital. Although there will be lab work and other incidentals that will not be covered by this, I expect to break even or perhaps even earn a profit from my prostate cancer, since the lump sum payment itself more than repaid the premiums that I had put into the policy.

I live in a town of only a few thousand people. We have two different federally funded medical groups that provide regular medical and dental care on a sliding scale, which may be anywhere from paying full costs to no cost at all, depending on income.

Mandatory insurance, or single-payer medical plans, whatever you may wish to call them, will simply drive costs up to a point where those who can't afford medical care now won't be able to afford medical policies after they're mandated.

Tradd
7-3-11, 6:43pm
I don't get the poo-pooing of the urgent care centers. Yes, some are at pharmacies such as Walgreens or CVS. In my area, there are urgent care centers run by local hospitals. My GP is in the same office as the urgent care center. For me, it's the same co-pay ($30) if I go to my GP or urgent care, so if I'm in dire need (such as when I get blindsided by a nasty sinus infection) on a weekend, I'll go to the urgent care.

Tradd
7-3-11, 7:08pm
I'm for universal healthcare, but the costs this year when my company renewed were ridiculous, much higher than in previous years, so it's got to be tied in with Obamacare. And they really shopped around. We're with a totally different insurance provider than last year. There are some coworkers of mine who are now only insuring themselves through our company plan. They can't afford the almost $500 per week to insure their spouse and kids. The spouse either gets insurance through their employer. And the kids go without. For the employee alone, it's now $75 a week. I know of at least one coworker who totally opted out of my company's group plan and got her own for the entire family.

kfander
7-3-11, 7:35pm
I have tried an urgent care center only once. I had a very painful, but not life-threatening problem, which seemed appropriate for an urgent care center. Without exaggeration, I sat there for more than four hours before I was seen, and then they did nothing that was any help at all, recommending something that I had already tried, then treated me as if I were an idiot when I told them I had already done that. They then referred me to a physician who wasn't going to see me for another four days, as if I couldn't have made my own appointment with a physician if I had wanted to wait four days. I ended up in the ER where I was seen by a real doctor, and the problem was corrected very quickly. Quite likely, not all urgent care centers are like this, however.