View Full Version : when a buddhist totally loses it
So i lost it yesterday, the calm, the peace, the whole ball of wax. Not sure what to think of it and how to reconcile with Buddhism but I do think that I won't judge it. It is what it is. However I am still left with serious frustrations.
So in going back to my favorite reading I see that we are recommended to not get too caught up in 'this is how it should be for me' as opposed to facing reality. However that does not seem to mean we ignore a broken situation that we are faced with as i see it. And some of what I am facing is in my realm of things I can affect and much of it isn't. Still I feel compelled to at LEAST get the message outside of myself that something is broken, I have no idea who to tell or how to tell it or anything. (read the personal finance post if you like, i ended up in tears with a help desk on call #7).
Honestly much of this is that I very much needed a break from everything. I am overdone, put a fork in me and I would be one dry overcooked chicken. However my kids still need me and in fact seem to need even MORE of me to deal with depression and dad issues and all that. I cannot even find a day to go hiking much less do any writing and meditation seems to be a total bust right now. I know I need to be VERY selfish right now, and one silly thing that is stopping me from getting a hotel room and leaving the kids here a few days is that I don't want to come home to a filthy mess. I am laughing at myself but I know I could wipe out days of meditation by coming home to having to enforce yet again that they cannot be this messy.
They both have counseling in the next 2 days so I can talk to their counselors about this, i am taking more money from savings to get through this and the court dates my daughter has for traffic tickets (in denver you end up in court if your headlight burns out and you are a minor), I am trying to go along with things but watching the money disappear again is not working for me and won't last forever. I am finding that the good feeling I have from supporting my kids is not making a dent in how much I need my retreat.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time.
All you can really do is focus on the things you CAN affectl. And not contribute to situations that you want to change. For example: you keep mentioning how your daughter won't take responsibility, and here you are saying that you are paying the ticket for her, for a problem that SHE caused, and you had warned her about, and she ignored you. Why not let her take the consequences for her own actions? If you pay this for her, where is the incentive for her to listen to you, or take action? How will she learn?
You may be helping your kids because it gives YOU a good feeling, but it doesn't sound like its a productive action, if you truly want your children to be independent responsible adults.
Who would you be if your children WERE autonomous and independent?
What would the repercussions be (for them) if you came home to a messy house? Any at all? Could it be made clear that if you come home to a disaster, you'll be taking it out of any money you give them (to get a cleaning person in) ?
I agree with herbgeek on allowing your kids to feel the repercussions of their own actions, no matter what they are. They are old enough to understand when you explain what's going to happen if they don't step up, but you continue to shield them, it seems. Perhaps it's just the path of least resistance. But this short-term easiness is costing you greatly in the long-term, and I don't doubt it's damaging your health.
What would happen if you just let go of their outcomes? If they were 9, that wouldn't make sense. But now they're old enough to make their own choices. What are you gaining -- ego, mentally, spiritually -- by remaining in their chaos?
Can you take a giant step and let go?
You said that your reaction to the situation, "is what it is".
The situation itself, however, you labeled as "broken".
As I understand it, ignorance is actually meant as the act of ignoring and suffering is the attachment to concepts like "broken".
If you see that your reaction is neutral (and that you can learn from it) you might also see that the situation is neutral. If you don't, you are ignoring that it is, although completely unconsciously. If however, you are only repeating a Buddhist position or recommendation it will take longer to see both because it is the individual's diligent inquiry into their own truth that is valuable.
See if you can get ahold of texts by Pema Chodron. very helpful.
"When Things Fall Apart" is my favorite reading in that collection for times of great stress.
"The Wisdom of No Escape" is mine!
Everyone falls apart... everyone experiences calm & peace. It's all perfect for the waking up process... but some days, it sure can be frustrating!
The OP reminds me of a place in Loving What Is where Katie comes home after her enlightenment and the house is a total disaster. This would have blown her cool before but what happened was she noticed that the dishes were dirty and right in front of her, so she washed the dishes. She would in prior times have been fuming, thinking thoughts about who should and what she shouldn't and all of those concepts. Instead, she saw dirty dishes so she washed them kind of in awe at the feeling of peace. The dishes were dirty; now the dishes are clean. Katie was peaceful.
I think the reason that scene stuck with me was because I had been so incredibly reactive to how other people messed up the house, and didn't take responsibility for the mess. I had so many "shoulds" about that that I couldn't feel peaceful in a dirty house and I certainly wouldn't clean without huge resentment. I can't say that I am totally peaceful about the dirty house now but I don't have to fall into my labels and concepts. As Xmac points out, it is all neutral...it is really only my thinking that makes it so difficult (creates the suffering).
Ahh, easy to say and read, but so much more difficult to live....
Thank you all. ,I love Pema chodron but have not read that much. Mostly a time issue as with everything else in my life currently.
I am trying to move away from thinking that if I do it one way, ie. leave the kid to figure it out and flounder, I will not experience frustration. Or if I do it the other way, help out reasonably, I will not experience frustration. The frustration is more about my expectation of what I think they will or should so when i do certain things. That is a fine balance, sometimes they may not do what i expect and other times I can set it out as a condition if that is what i need. One thing i cannot do is cook dinner and also clean the kitchen. It is a simple time issue, I have very little time. The kids know it and still about once a month I come home, declare the kitchen too dirty for me to cook or prepare dinner in and leave to buy myself a taco. Sometimes one of the kids who has been doing a lot of dishes can get a taco too, the others can make themselves a sandwich and clean up. I have taken more emotion out of it over time but it is frustrating and I think it will continue to be. So if i was the Katie in the story I may do the dishes if I had time, however my reality is that i don';t have time so I would inform the family that I need to eat and since there are not clean dishes to prepare food I wil return after I take care of it myself, and then let go of the expectation that they will learn anything from this, do the dishes next time, not push it to the point I kick them out, etc.
So hmm, I think there is room to not ignore the situation with needed paperwork and with kids and the work we need to have done. I know I have avoided conflict before and therefore tried to ignore things, let them build up, and then had an overreaction. I can also see that saying 'this is not working functionally' is important yet removing the emotion to that is a very long (lifetime) process. I think I am doing slightly more than mouthing the Buddhist precepts, however I do know that I am struggling with the balance between ignoring something that is not working and on the other hand becoming attached to how I think i can address it and saying what it is.
Zoe Girl, I wish you luck in finding peace with this. You desperately need this retreat, your mental and probably physical health are fraying, and it appears you're not allowing it because you don't want to come home to a messy house. (and any possible conflict that may come with that....it is NOT a given that it will happen) I hope you can find a way to take care of yourself.
I struggle with the Byron Katie approach at times. Yes, the dishes were dirty and now they're clean and peace and prosperity reigns in the land, but BLEH, who wants to spend all their free time - or time desperately needed for other important things - washing other people's crap. And further, only to find that, much like Rumplestiltskin, there's another load of crap built up for you to deal with by (or before) the next time you have a free moment. I find the BK approach very conducive to living life as a domestic servant, but it's not such a good deal for those of us who have no interest in that sort of subservient existence. Sorry if that sounds self indulgent, but I totally get where you're coming from in feeling frustrated and annoyed and burnt out.
My advice - which I haven't managed to take for myself in quite a while, lol - is to carve out a few days of personal time away from this, no matter what the consequences. You're up in the tornado right now, and from that vantage point it can seem totally impossible to get away, but it's absolutely the best thing for getting grounded and starting over with a fresh and refreshed mind.
Good luck and empathy coming your way. :)
Thank you all, I think I did really need this retreat and I can see that I am beyond my resources in many ways. I know my son is going to visit with grandparents this summer one week and I may send my middle child as well (she will fight this). My oldest does her own thing even though she lives with me so I have nothing I need to care for her about.
What happened to my retreat was the continuing mental health issues of my kids. For the last year i have said i don't have time or money to do more and now I am doing it (but it is cutting into time and money for the rest of it). We saw my dd's counselor yesterday and I think i looked in pretty bad shape. The counselor tried to tell me how important I am as mom and i could not agree.
So i lost it yesterday, the calm, the peace, the whole ball of wax. Not sure what to think of it and how to reconcile with Buddhism but I do think that I won't judge it. It is what it is. However I am still left with serious frustrations.
I don't think Buddhism is about peace. It is about experiencing (not judging) the moment. So, I think you are fully reconciled with Buddhism.
I agree that coming home to a messy house could undo the memory of the peaceful day of meditation. However, the peace isn't supposed to carry over anyway. Buddhism is not about peace. It is about accepting the moment as it is and doing what you can (and only what you can) about it. The more you can do that, the more peaceful you may come (but that is still the byproduct, not the goal).
As for your actual issues, I have no sage advise. My impression, however, is to let your kids suffer their own consequences (assuming you can buffer those consequences from yourself).
kib,
Byron Katie doesn't promote an "approach" per se. She does however invite those that are interested in pursuing their truth to honor what is true for them in the moment it arises.
The story, as I see it, was meant to convey that one can have a balanced response to what would otherwise be construed as a stressful situation, but that it is not the "right" way to be, it is just another way to be. Being in the moment fully, as chord_ata pointed out, means one doesn't judge the situation, one does the dishes or not; freedom either way. How could I be a servant if I am enjoying what I'm doing? Isn't it just the story that they treat me like a servant that is the "problem"?
Now, if one sees that the way that Byron Katie responded is better or worse, that's judgment: leaving the present and going into the fictional inner static.
And notice here if you see being in the present as better than judging and unconscious.
chord_ata, I'm not sure I see Buddhism as being about accepting the moment as it is, as much as it about seeing the moment for what it is. Seems to me the acceptance is the outgrowth of realization.
chord_ata, I'm not sure I see Buddhism as being about accepting the moment as it is, as much as it about seeing the moment for what it is. Seems to me the acceptance is the outgrow of realization.
You are probably stating this more accurately than I. Perhaps I observe, then accept, then forget that I had observed.
Hmmm. I really do understand the power of flexing the mind to make an uncontrollable situation tolerable. Driving out the past and the future and the judgments they contain and being simply present, observing and existing. I'm just not sure I agree with it as a strategy for every thing in life that comes up, things that, with luck and creativity and work, can be changed. While I can enjoy washing dishes in the moment, it doesn't mean I want my future littered with another sink-full of them every three hours.
Hmmm. I really do understand the power of flexing the mind to make an uncontrollable situation tolerable. Driving out the past and the future and the judgments they contain and being simply present, observing and existing.
The Work (of Byron Katie) as I've done it, doesn't drive out the past, it invites it in for a game of 20 questions. The situation doesn't become tolerable, it ceases being a "situation".
I'm just not sure I agree with it as a strategy for every thing in life that comes up, things that, with luck and creativity and work, can be changed.
I'm sure I wouldn't agree with it either if I had no experience with it. A strategy is a plan to control some aspect(s) of something or things, the Work is not a strategy. As soon as it becomes one, it doesn't work.
Where people get stuck is in looking at Katie and her experiences and turning them into the religion of "should", rather than just doing the Work for themselves (which as I pointed out is just answering questions). Also, notice how there's an assumption that one can't or wouldn't change things if one was clear.
While I can enjoy washing dishes in the moment, it doesn't mean I want my future littered with another sink-full of them every three hours.
I don't doubt that that is completely true for you. So when it's not pleasant you can choose to do one of two things: try to change what is outside you or what is inside you. The inside is where the problem really exists: how you're relating to it, not the dishes just sitting there. So it makes sense to go to the source of the problem, which is the belief that it should be different. From that, creativity is allowed to flow.
If one is having success with working on the outside then beautiful! There's no problem. And if it continually fails then you can always go in. Everyone has equal wisdom. It is there for the asking.
So often there's the belief when focusing on the outside situation, "if I just thought about it long enough or worked at it enough, I could do something that would solve the problem for good". My experience is that that is true. That is your heart's intelligence trying to get your attention to listen to it, which is on the inside. The answer is in all of us but we won't allow it because we believe thoughts like, "I'll be a slave" or "they'll never learn to take responsibility" etc.
I had a couple of experiences before I came across the work in which I was determined to find the truth regardless of how it would affect me and lo and behold I found it and it was a big weight off my shoulder. So, it takes determination and openness.
screamingflea
7-2-11, 1:42pm
Zoe, I must confess that when I saw this title my mind went immediately to a monk in a saffron robe having a movie-star style tantrum. Snorting too much incense dust a la Charlie Sheen and then stomping his begging bowl and kicking the tires on someone's Benz. :|( :laff:
Anyway, I'm sorry you're having a rough time right now. I'm guessing a vacation will do you a lot of good. Remember that it's okay to get pissed off, even for no reason at all. Just leave the incense dust to the professionals.
Oh that is good, I could see me as a saffron robed kid having a temperr tantrum, and it cracks me up. If you can't laugh at yourself,...
I think all Buddhists have failings. Right now since it's summer my weakness is killing insects that get in the house- I don't think I will ever get over that even though I feel guilty when I do it.
Great image, Flea. I'd like to keep that one! Made me smile...
Metta Meditation. Not sure if this was mentioned but it does resolve internal turmoil towards yourself and others. I can say it works for me. Sit quietly and read this to yourself:
May I be well, May I be at peace, May I be safe, May I be healthy, May I be at ease, May I be ____________
May (name) be well, May (name be at peace), etc...
May my family be well, may my family be at pease, etc...
May my community be well, may my community be at pease, etc....
You can extend this as far as you wish, May the nation be well............remarkably simple but the next day, the situation will be there to be dealt with but the negative emotions will be balanced. Zen always expressed the middle way.
Ah yes, that is one of the great yet simple ones that I forget. Gonna use it for a work situation actually that is causing frustration.
BTW I have been really calm for days which is nice. With teenagers it is also a challenge, lol
Once upon a time I practiced meditation on a regular basis. This practice started with zen and than vipasana. The meditations included many dharma talks. I took away the idea that Buddhism allows you to recognize fully that a situation is creating a response within you. The response can be negative, positive, any feeling or emotion at all, even a physical response. The idea was to be aware of it, do nothing else.
I was faced with a personal dilemna of my own lately and I wondered in the midst of a negative state, how perpetually I try to change it to something else by any means necessary. I am trying to get away from it. I do not think I do that in a positive state. If I am happy because I cooked a fine meal, I don't even realize it as such. I do not try and avoid it at all. Could I accept the negative states as well. I haven't learned how to do that yet.
Oh dear, I really resonated with what you are saying. I have job issues (see the work area where I just want to delete and move on) with a staff who I want to tell to chill out and meditate but that is probably not ok. However I have found that over the weeks this tension has been building that I went through many stages. The negative ones have been necessary as well and the more comfortable ones.
Each week we have a field trip and the 1st one was the 2nd day of camp, Kinda chaotic. Okay the next one was smoother, and after that I have felt fine about how they are going but this one teacher is increasingly freaking out and disrespectful. How do you respond to disrespect with compassion and wihout ego? Well I have still listened to what she said even though she said it badly. Yesterday she said something that gave me a clue, she expects that if our field trip is 'on time' that all the kids are waiting outside before the bus gets there. I called a friend at another camp site since this is my first year and she does it that way but we don't have to.
Ah-ha!!! So then somewhere in the middle of the night I realize that I have done sooo many field trips. My major strength is flexibility and as a short and long term sub, girl scout leader, home school leader, etc. I better be good at that. So I do not want the kids lined up before the bus arrives. We still have to deal with her judging my work and acting it out but I am soo grateful that I have practiced enough calm to listen in the middle of anger. Without the anger i wouldn't keep pushing to do my job and take charge, without the reflection I wouldn't see that I have frequently been the leader and good at it. It seems I naturally get put in charge often, however I have a very calm leadership so others react to that differently. One thing is that I don't take charge immediatly in a forceful way so it does take longer for others to understand I have things handled, but it also keep most people calm and they know they are being listened to. It is putting the long term over the short term. I credit that to meditation honestly.
okay I wandered off but this was good to write it out and get my confidence back. As far as negative states, I look more at what are they expressing to me. Anger has saved my life, however staying in anger can also kill. Being cooperative is very good but doing so at the expense of self care is also damaging. I think that is where some of my large reactions come from. And we may have to work at it, but I found after some of the bad year we have had (foreclosure, mental illnesses, school refusal and failure) that I don't have many simple things I don't appreciate right now. Even being able to pick up fast food can be appreciated when you have been broke.
Zoe Girl,
you twice credited anger as having made things better, once as saving your life. How so?
Oh dear, I haven't checked out the thread i started in awhile.
So saving my life, well getting out of a verbally abusive relationship. I had anger to keep me moving long enough to get out. It was one of those really long processes and I wanted to let the whole thing go so many times but then I would get so angry about how I was treated near the end that it kept me going. I know that if I hadn;t left I would have most likely developed an addiction to cope with things and I consider that life threatening. Okay maybe others would not agree but I think that it counts.
Other times my anger when appropriate has pushed me to get out of my natural avoidance of conflict to face and address things. And clearing the air is important and can really make things better. Issues with friends and family that just keep spinning in circles until someone gets angry and also has the skills to push for an effective conversation or resolution are not solved by stuffing down anger (or beign always reactionary)
does that make sense?
Gardenarian
7-20-11, 3:47pm
Yep, it makes sense.
It would be great to be able to have the force of purpose without the negativity of anger. Is there a way you can do that? Part of it is taking the measure of the situation before it all implodes.
For some reason as I'm reading your posts I'm reminded of a piece of advice from a friend of mine:
"Always remember The First Rule of Holes " (hint: stop digging.)
Oh dear, I haven't checked out the thread i started in awhile.
So saving my life, well getting out of a verbally abusive relationship. I had anger to keep me moving long enough to get out. It was one of those really long processes and I wanted to let the whole thing go so many times but then I would get so angry about how I was treated near the end that it kept me going. I know that if I hadn;t left I would have most likely developed an addiction to cope with things and I consider that life threatening. Okay maybe others would not agree but I think that it counts.
Other times my anger when appropriate has pushed me to get out of my natural avoidance of conflict to face and address things. And clearing the air is important and can really make things better. Issues with friends and family that just keep spinning in circles until someone gets angry and also has the skills to push for an effective conversation or resolution are not solved by stuffing down anger (or beign always reactionary)
does that make sense?
Was it the anger that did it or was it the realization or clearer understanding of the situation just before the anger? I'm not suggesting anger was not necessary then, I'm sure it was. I'm just questioning as to whether or not it was necessary to the outcome.
I'm pressing with this question because I've had the experience in which I didn't react with anger in a situation where I would have prior to it. My son was about nine years old and left an expensive toy at a restaurant. He told me this just as we pulled into the garage. Without hesitation, lecture, angry words etc., I just put the car in reverse and did what I would have done anyway.
This is not to say that anger is wrong, not at all. If you feel anger and suppress it that's even more difficult than anger straight up. I think anger is just there as a red flag to show us that how we're seeing things is not in line with reality. In my case the reality was: he's a kid, kids forget sometimes (or all the time), and one can't remember if they don't (I know that from experience), I could have checked if I didn't want to go back and lastly I had an opportunity to model how one can respond to a "problem"...BUT, IT WAS NOT FORCED, IT CAME NATURALLY AS A RESULT OF LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT WAY OF BEING.
Hmm, that is interesting. I think about the attitude of the middle way a lot with Buddhism. So I think that we will all have different perspectives as we balance out our own interaction with the world. It was VERY important to me to accept and not judge anger. I had been raised to never have anger and certainly not express it. Then being involved with people who over-expressed their anger and scared me made it even less likely for me to feel anger. I actually had been more of the 'just do it without anger or reaction' person for a long time, yet in the abusive situation that was not strong enough to get me out or let me hold my own even. I think what I appreciated about some of these angry moments was I found that when I really really let myself go and feel the anger and choose how to respond well then it had much less power over my actions than anger I had been pretending I didn't have. So I may still get angry but it is pretty short lived, effective as needed, and then things are either solved or something is learned
rodeosweetheart
7-29-11, 8:38am
We were just on a car trip and listening to a book that deals with some of this--maybe too self helpy for some, but Melody Beatties "Making Miracles"-- she does this gratitude practice where each day she expresses gratitude for these negative types of things or situations or feelings--her point is that we learn to avoid/repress these negative emotions and thus lose touch with what we are supposed to be doing. Your point about bieng raised to never have anger nor express it is something she talks about. Through this practice, she works through to the state of acceptance, middle state thing and supposedly miracles result--we did not get quite that far, so I can't explain it better than that and have only just started to try it.
I think what I appreciated about some of these angry moments was I found that when I really really let myself go and feel the anger and choose how to respond well then it had much less power over my actions than anger I had been pretending I didn't have."
I think that is really significant statement, and goes in line with what she is saying--you have to realize the anger not push it away, then create that space to respond--at least that is how I am interpreting this process, and I'm working on it, too! Just went to visit elderly parents and had to really work on this, LOL.
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