View Full Version : Madmen everywhere!
What is up with all of the crazies blowing everyone away on a regular basis. It seems no one is immune. Check out the news- on a daily basis it is either the cops killing someone or some madman killing others and then himself.
What has happened? Have we gone mad? A right-wing crazy based upon hate radio? Some mentally ill person? Religious hate? The Gestapo?
I just cannot remember this much killing in my younger days? Is it that we have more news available or has the US gone nuts?
Peace
People haave done strange things for years, some with the approval of the governments or groups that they control. I think that it is more a matter of media reporting and, more importantly, society is finding this type of behaviour more unacceptable which is a really good thing to happen.
ButterflyBreath
8-7-11, 11:24pm
I don't have an answer for you but I have often wondered whether having quicker more readily media available has an effect on how we view these things. I had wondered this about severe record breaking weather (topic for another thread).
I think we would all be much happier if we could not view or hear the world and national news. Constantly going over and over all the bad news. Very rarely ever reporting on a good story. The constant harping on the economy over the past couple of years has just about driven me insane. I need to move to a remote island...........
The NRA has won the gun rights battle. Every idiot can now have a gun.
freein05, it is society that has changed. Increased media influence on people's world view, over-prescribed anti-depressant medications, desensitization to violence, etc. p.s. "every idiot" can also have a swimming pool, an automobile, and a pack of matches.
I think a great deal of the violence has to do with economic conditions. Philadelphia, the nearest big city to my town, has recently begun experiencing "flash mobs", mostly made up of kids who gang up and run through stores in Center City, mowing down both people and merchandise, although they haven't killed anyone yet to my knowledge. Note that Center City is a very rich area and that it is surrounded by horrifying slums where gang and other mindless forms of violence take place on a near-daily basis. Homeless people wander the train station concourse only a block from a high-rise condo complex where the cheapest unit starts at $800,000. There is too great a discrepancy between the rich and the poor. The public schools in slum areas are more like holding tanks than providers of basic education.
Note the riots in England, another economically troubled country: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/london-riots-theresa-may-flies-home .
People are angry and frightened by what is happening, and no, I don't think it's merely a matter of media coverage.
ApatheticNoMore
8-8-11, 1:53pm
Well the actual rate of violent crime is very far form it's peak (of course the prisons are also overflowing, with only a small portion of it being violent offenders). Now if some subset of violence like police violence OR like politically motivated violence is increasing it would be an interesting trend. I don't know enough about it really. A bunch of anecdotes (ie the news crime reportage) do not a statistic make :)
As for the news as such, yea there are often times it is best not to watch it. If you are looking for a job only so much "the economy is collapsing" you can really bear to hear. The news sensationalizes, it distorts, it's not objective, etc.. OTOH I think without news many people would live EVEN MORE in a bubble: "well none of my doctor friends have lost their job, I don't believe there is much unemployment ...." "Well it's been a nice summer in Southern California, so much for global warming theory ...", etc.
I guess I'm kind of immune to the increase in madmen and shootings. It has to be a big one to really get my attention. I'm in the Chicago area and sadly, it's become increasingly common for children in Chicago to be killed by shooting, often as bystanders or wrong targets. These are children who reportedly aren't involved in gangs.
I recall how very upset I would get when I read about mass shootings when they first started decades ago, ex Charles Whitman in Austin in the 60s. It seemed so utterly impossible and inexplicable. Now, such news brings a momentary shudder and that's about it since they are so frequent. My reasoning is that people no longer experience a living/breathing (as opposed to virtual) family/community of support as they once did. They feel isolated, threatened and lash out against imagined enemies. I do think media plays a part; at least our response to constant information must play a part. I have often wondered why people always say things like "it was just like in a movie" as if that is our gauge for reality.
freein05, it is society that has changed. Increased media influence on people's world view, over-prescribed anti-depressant medications, desensitization to violence, etc. p.s. "every idiot" can also have a swimming pool, an automobile, and a pack of matches.
Agreed here. 70 years ago there were no restrictions on gun ownership that I know of (other than maybe military weaponry). People weren't blowing each other away that often. From what my dad told me gun ownership was extremely widespread then so it just seems out of place to blame accessibility to firearms. I tend to agree with Madsen and put the blame on media and all the sensory overload that comes with it. Too fast and too furious for my tastes these days.
Agreed here. 70 years ago there were no restrictions on gun ownership that I know of (other than maybe military weaponry). People weren't blowing each other away that often. From what my dad told me gun ownership was extremely widespread then so it just seems out of place to blame accessibility to firearms. I tend to agree with Madsen and put the blame on media and all the sensory overload that comes with it. Too fast and too furious for my tastes these days.
When I was a teenager, every pickup truck had a gunrack inside, and the majority of the racks were filled. My high school parking lot normally had more guns on premises than some of you younger folks could possibly imagine, especially during deer season. And believe it or not, there were no violent crimes in my home town, at least none that were ever reported.
Times have changed, violence is a problem with society and not a result of the tools they use.
Seems to me that as the gap between the haves and the have-nots widens, coupled with many being armed, and our insensitivity to violence, we're looking at genuine break-down in the very fabric of civilized society.
As unemployment continues to rise, as food prices rise even more (and they will, given the climate conditions of drought and flood), as foreclosures kick more people out of their homes, as hope gives way to more hopelessness and anger, I fear we'll be seeing more murder and mayhem.
Have you noticed the increase in random "flash mobs" and riots world-wide?
Many people are seething and ripe to explode in commiting random acts of violence. It's very alarming and I see no reduction until the root cause of people being hungry and unemployed is addressed--and is it even possible to cure these conditions given world economics right now?
Very sad--and frightening. What have we come to?
I agree with Hiker. I think it's not just the widening gap between the haves and have nots but also the overall hopeless situation that many have nots are in. One only has to look at the differences in unemployment rate by education level attained (people with high school diplomas are about matching the average of just under 10%, people with college degrees are half that, people without a high school diploma are significantly more likely to be unemployed than average), or look at the remarkably high rates of people who are currently getting food stamp or other food assistance, to see how bad things really are for the have nots. And with so many of the stable, well paying jobs that used to be available to people without an education now permanently moved offshore many of the have nots don't have much hope of ever turning their situation around. If that was my situation I'd likely be angry and depressed too.
Especially with the media and tv shows constantly glorifying conspicuous consumption. If everyone in your town lives in a small house you aren't likely to mind it, assuming that your house is nice enough to keep you warm in winter, etc. If someone builds a palace next to your small house then suddenly your small house will feel crappy in comparison.
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/08/07/american-tinderbox/
It is only going to get worse. The 2012 election is predicted to be the ugliest ever, with Obama raising millions of dollars to run negative attack campaigns against his opponent as he has nothing positive to run on. The economy is awful, young people (older ones too) can't find work. If a person does not have something to get up and go do each, work, school volunteer, etc., they are liable to either get depressed or angry. The anger is already spilling over and it will only get worse.
I agree with Hiker. I think it's not just the widening gap between the haves and have nots but also the overall hopeless situation that many have nots are in. One only has to look at the differences in unemployment rate by education level attained (people with high school diplomas are about matching the average of just under 10%, people with college degrees are half that, people without a high school diploma are significantly more likely to be unemployed than average), or look at the remarkably high rates of people who are currently getting food stamp or other food assistance, to see how bad things really are for the have nots. And with so many of the stable, well paying jobs that used to be available to people without an education now permanently moved offshore many of the have nots don't have much hope of ever turning their situation around. If that was my situation I'd likely be angry and depressed too.
Especially with the media and tv shows constantly glorifying conspicuous consumption. If everyone in your town lives in a small house you aren't likely to mind it, assuming that your house is nice enough to keep you warm in winter, etc. If someone builds a palace next to your small house then suddenly your small house will feel crappy in comparison.
I'm not convinced the gap between various economic levels itself is such a big deal. Traditionally the wealthy and the 'commoners' have lived together, in close proximity. Take London as an example, or Paris. Of course there were always the few at the very highest levels of the aristocracy that had unlimited resources and chose to build incredible monuments to themselves, but for most of the rest of society wealthy folks lived right down the street from their employees, shop keepers lived above their shops, etc.
In pre-mass-media days I would take a guess there were as many people joking about how absurd Versailles was as there were envious onlookers. I tend to agree with jp1 that the glorification of consumption and the near constant barrage of advertisements here in the media age has quite a lot to do with it. We were talking the other day about the lifestyles of families on some current tv shows. Suffice it to say that none were struggling. I don't really watch network tv so could be way off base, but I can not remember a show since "The Waltons" that made it much beyond one season featuring a close, hardworking, relatively low consumption family. That was a long time ago!
...Have you noticed the increase in random "flash mobs" and riots world-wide?
I am pissed that gangster wannabes have taken over the term "flash mob" (or perhaps I can pin this on the media?) because the original flash mob idea was non violent, performance art sort of thing. DH and I participated in one of the first flash mob events here in St. Louis. It was fun and funny. The punks who perpetrate assaults under the guise of "flash mob" need to treated as the violent thugs that they are.
I'm pissed too. The stuff going on in London is outrageous. I have very evil thoughts about them when I see them destroying and stealing.
Also, in the city close to here, there is violence every single day.
I've been having this feeling for a long time that there's something growing inside many people (especially the gangsta wannabes) and I'm not sure it has to do much other than bad seeds growing inside them. DH is always bringing up when his grandparents came to America (from Hungary).........they were very poor. But they worked sooooo hard. They had tiny homes/apartments that they kept very clean. They grew their own veggies in their tiny yards. They made the most of very little. They were extremely poor and had very little education, but they were good people. What's going on today?????? Its out of control. It makes me sick.
Here is some love from the left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60929.html
Team Obama want to "kill Romney".
I guess the uproar over Giffords shooting is old news.
Are we getting our bombers ready to hit London? Isn't rioting in the streets all we need these days.
You also need to take into account that the US population has more than doubled since the 1950's - and that the illegal immigrant population (uncounted) has also increased by several million. More people often means more violence for many different reasons including purely statistical. Also, in the 1940's, 50's and 60's a large number of males (the ones who "historically" have been mass shooters and violent agressors) were in the service fighting foriegn wars. The number of males who where stationed over seas in WWII alone was huge (over 16 million - where as in both Iraq and Afganistan there are less than 175K combined currently serving overseas). And the number of dead was just as staggering - leaving less of a male population in the country thru out the 50's & 60's. So now we have a larger male populace, perhaps a more disgruntled, disenfrancished male (and female too) populace, more stress triggers, and a less cohesive society that is more accepting of bad behavior and aggression and boom - ya get some more bad guys (and girls too!). Just a thought. And while I agree that mass media often overloads us with violence reports, it is also a tool for spreading rage that wasn't common 50 or more years ago. Now a young disenfranchied person can have their anger over "whatever" inflammed 24/7 by every conceievable media outlet - including facebook, online forums, etc... I can see people getting wound up and ready for action, maybe snapping and going into a full rage, after watching and reading about stuff that irks them day after day after day. Plus we have less physical outlets for that rage. We aren't out chopping wood or plowing the back 40 anymore. We are sitting in cubicles and traffic letting our rage build with no release.
I'm not convinced the gap between various economic levels itself is such a big deal. Traditionally the wealthy and the 'commoners' have lived together, in close proximity. Take London as an example, or Paris. Of course there were always the few at the very highest levels of the aristocracy that had unlimited resources and chose to build incredible monuments to themselves, but for most of the rest of society wealthy folks lived right down the street from their employees, shop keepers lived above their shops, etc.
In pre-mass-media days I would take a guess there were as many people joking about how absurd Versailles was as there were envious onlookers. I tend to agree with jp1 that the glorification of consumption and the near constant barrage of advertisements here in the media age has quite a lot to do with it. We were talking the other day about the lifestyles of families on some current tv shows. Suffice it to say that none were struggling. I don't really watch network tv so could be way off base, but I can not remember a show since "The Waltons" that made it much beyond one season featuring a close, hardworking, relatively low consumption family. That was a long time ago!
Viva La Revolution!! Down with the Basille! Well the lower classes did rise up in a violent way eventually. But I agree, I don't see that happening nowadays - at least not in a democratic country no matter how angry the working class mobs become. Although I do see that generalized but unfocused flash mob attacks could increase as a way of violent protest. But nothing agaisnt the govmint directly. Of course there is alway the cry of "off with their heads" ala Louis the 16th. Hmmm... I have a strange hankering for cake :-)!
I'm pissed too. The stuff going on in London is outrageous. I have very evil thoughts about them when I see them destroying and stealing.
Also, in the city close to here, there is violence every single day.
I've been having this feeling for a long time that there's something growing inside many people (especially the gangsta wannabes) and I'm not sure it has to do much other than bad seeds growing inside them. DH is always bringing up when his grandparents came to America (from Hungary).........they were very poor. But they worked sooooo hard. They had tiny homes/apartments that they kept very clean. They grew their own veggies in their tiny yards. They made the most of very little. They were extremely poor and had very little education, but they were good people. What's going on today?????? Its out of control. It makes me sick.
What do you expect? The governments of the Western world have lied and lied and lied some more, not to mention decoupling currency from the gold standard so they can play with the economy like gods. Middle class kids go into debt for the false promise of a good job after college, only to find that they're lucky to get a job at Walmart. Older people get laid off willy-nilly despite competence and a strong work ethic. Social Security beneficiaries have been denied COLA for two years while they watch the President blow a bundle of tax dollars on an Hawaiian vacation. WTF???
What your husband's ancestors had was hope, and probably some real life examples of immigrants who came here, worked hard, and made good. We no longer have that. Desperate people do desperate things.
But it makes no sense to destroy everything around you.........including innocent others, and burning down homes of people who are similar to you, and stealing everything you can get your hands on from shops with owners just like you who are actually working to make like a little better for themselves. I understand total frustration, but imagine what they might accomplish by uniting in an intelligent way and working for change?
I'm not sure there's any excuse for their crazy behavior, other than wanting to be destructive and being able to do that by being in such huge numbers that no one can stop their carnage.
Yes, there's alot of insanity everywhere. So we just go out and start destroying everything in sight, and taking pleasure in that??
But it makes no sense to destroy everything around you.........including innocent others, and burning down homes of people who are similar to you, and stealing everything you can get your hands on from shops with owners just like you who are actually working to make like a little better for themselves. I understand total frustration, but imagine what they might accomplish by uniting in an intelligent way and working for change?
I'm not sure there's any excuse for their crazy behavior, other than wanting to be destructive and being able to do that by being in such huge numbers that no one can stop their carnage.
Yes, there's alot of insanity everywhere. So we just go out and start destroying everything in sight, and taking pleasure in that??
I certainly take no pleasure in this kind of destructiveness, but I can understand it. People who are severely frustrated aren't rational, and many younger people aren't taught to think logically or use common sense by their parents or the public school system, especially in the slums. The majority of middle class kids are taught nothing more than self esteem and selfishness instead of self control.
I live in an over-55 development where we own our homes, but rent the lots. If you fall very far behind in your rent payments, the landlord can seize the house and sell it. The "landlord" is a cold, greedy bunch of partners and they've done this to a number of elderly people. Last spring, there was a fire at the clubhouse which started at the landlord's office. I suspect it was arson arranged or done by someone who lost their house. Unfortunately, it resulted in the clubhouse being boarded up indefinitely, which hurts all of us. (There was no reduction in our rent for the loss of use, either.) It wasn't a rational or even justifiable thing to do, but I can understand the anger.
We live in a really screwed up world where money is more important than people, and that makes me one more angry person, even though I don't believe rioting will solve any problems. I no longer believe voting will solve any problems either, but that's for another time and topic.
The riots here in the UK (mostly London, but also in Birmingham, Bristol and a couple of other large cities) began when the police shot and killed a man in the Tottenham district of north London, one of the capital's most deprived boroughs. There is some debate in the British press about whether he was a drug dealer and whether he was armed.
What was supposed to be a peaceful protest about the police action developed into a 'disturbance' and social networking soon spread the idea to other areas that people could go looting and starting fires with little prospect of the police being able to do anything. Although it's probably fair to say that people who have a job, a home and a future (or the prospect of getting them one day) don't take part in riots, arson or looting, and so perhaps it's no surprise that most of the violence took place in deprived working class boroughs like Tottenham, Hackney and Peckham that are feeling the worst effects of our Conservative government's austerity measures, we shouldn't get the idea that this is primarily an expression of underlying social unrest. Mostly it's about stealing stuff.
Yes, there is social unrest, yes in Tottenham there is one job vacancy for every 50 unemployed and yes, if you are young and working class in one of those areas then you may well feel outside of a society that seems to worship only consumerism and allows the bankers that crashed the economy to continue to take massive bonuses after the taxpayer bailed them out two years ago. Read 'The Spirit Level' for a detailed explanation of why almost every negative feature of modern society is worse in countries (and indeed in US states) that have the highest income inequality. Britain is right up there next to the US for inequality, and maybe this wouldn't happen in Denmark or Finland or Japan (with the lowest levels of inequality). But it's still mostly about opportunist thieving.
Indeed, Indeed. The frustration is growing as the working class try and try and try to figure out how to live in a world dominated by greed and corruption. The problem will not go away until the distribution of wealth is more balanced.
I believe the distribution of income in the US should be more equal, and feel that the redistribution of income is a legitimate role for government. "Thems fighting words" in todays world of conservatism and yet the disparity get worse by the day.
The choices become less and less. Frustration builds and builds. And then something ignites the anger. I honestly think we are on the verge of just such a moment in our history. When teachers get laid off and bankers get bonuses even when they fail. When young people are forced to live at home while they see the wealthy and greedy jump from one vacation home to another. When we choose to blame our problems on race and ethnicity as opportunities diminish that is a clear warning sign of social unrest.
The clock is ticking and the masses can only be controlled when they have hope!
Peace
Its a little scary with so much going on. Everything and everybody seems so out of control.
The Romans fed the Christians to the Lions to keep the crowds entertained and from rioting...Listen to the popular rhetoric and wonder what's next...
Indeed, Indeed. The frustration is growing as the working class try and try and try to figure out how to live in a world dominated by greed and corruption. The problem will not go away until the distribution of wealth is more balanced.
I believe the distribution of income in the US should be more equal, and feel that the redistribution of income is a legitimate role for government. "Thems fighting words" in todays world of conservatism and yet the disparity get worse by the day.
The choices become less and less. Frustration builds and builds. And then something ignites the anger. I honestly think we are on the verge of just such a moment in our history. When teachers get laid off and bankers get bonuses even when they fail. When young people are forced to live at home while they see the wealthy and greedy jump from one vacation home to another. When we choose to blame our problems on race and ethnicity as opportunities diminish that is a clear warning sign of social unrest.
The clock is ticking and the masses can only be controlled when they have hope!
Peace
If you have the right to force me to give you my money, then why do you not have the right to force me to pick your cotton? Both are forms of servitude.
Best,
Rodger
Unitarian Jihad Name - "Brother Rail Gun of Quiet Reflection"
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