Depression

[Maxamillion]

I'm not sure how coherent this will be. I've been dealing with depression most of my life, but the last week has been especially bad. I haven't been thrilled with my current therapist but can't find another one that takes my insurance. I also see a psych-doc for my anti-depressant. She upped the dosage last month. So I'm hoping that will help.

I've tried some herbal stuff in the past--St. John's Wort (helped a little) and 5htp (didn't help that I could tell). But I can't take it with my current antidepressant. I've been getting out and walking some in the mornings. I've tried to meditate but it just makes me feel even worse. Between lack of finances and some social anxiety, it'd difficult for me to get out and socialize. I really miss going to the gym, but since I got laid off, I can't afford it.

I've gotten a few Reiki sessions done and it's seemed to help some but when the depression comes back it seems to hit even harder. I've been diagnosed with both major depression and dysthymia. My p-doc says the dysthymia is actually the harder to treat of the two. She's told me that I'll probably have to deal with depression for the rest of my life. Not very encouraging.

Every now and then there'll be a few days that I feel okay, but most of the time my mood is just rather blah, and then sometimes, like this week, it just really hits hard.

Just wondering if anyone else is dealing with this or has dealt with it or has any good coping strategies.

[Aqua Blue]

(((Hugs))) I have delt with life long dysthymia and it is difficult. I don't tolerate the newer anti depressants and am still having some difficulties with the last one I took about a year ago. I have decided that I will never try that again. when I take them I start having no spontaneous thought (all that background stuff you have in conversations-like someone says something and you think "oh yes, that reminds me, I need to pick up milk and bread before I head home etc.) I also stopped having any dreams that I remember anyway. The problem is it goes on for a while before I realize it. When I spoke with my Dr about it, she acted like I was being a bother. I have tried other ones and had a similar problem, but this time is by far the worse. The other times those symptoms went away in a month or two, but not this time.

Anyhow, what has perhaps helped me some is accepting that this is the way it is. I don't beat myself us about it. Sometimes I think my discontent with myself was almost as bad as the disease.I have come to accept that as much as I would like it to be different, I am never going to be the happy go lucky person some people are. I try to look at it with empathy and some detachment. It isn't who I am anymore than the arthritis is who I am. Now I think, Oh, that is just your depression talking. It will get better. etc. I treat it like I do my arthritis. When it is really flared I just lay back and give it some time to get better. I also try to remember the good things about it. I think things thru more than some lighter thinking people which I try to think of as a plus. Anyway I try to step back and see it as a part of me(like my arthritis) not the whole me. I feel like this is sorta rambly, but hopefully it helps.

I did have a real increase when I did Spinal-sacral therapy. I did it for two two month sessions. the first time was really bad, I would go home and cry for hours and feel really bad. But the second time I didn't have near that reaction. I hope that helps a little

[HappyHiker]

I don't have your condition, but I wonder if you've tried daily cardio and weight machines at a gym? And have you cut out sugar from your diet? These two items help many improve their emotional ups and downs...very simplistic, I know, but can be quite effective.

[CathyA]

Its that time of year when our bodies begin to realize that the days are shortening. Have you ever considered using Bright Light Therapy?
Are you eating nutritiously and taking a multivitamin? Do you have a support system of friends/family?

[libby]

I second the idea of exercise and I don't mean a slow stroll but vigourous sweat breaking exercise. I also find that it is best to exercise with other people such as a class. I think the social interaction helps as well. I know how you feel as I too battle the darkness of depression. Some days are worse than others that's for sure. Keep on reaching out...(((hugs)))

[axis9313]

I prepared this for a friend of mine who also has depression not totally covered by medicine:

Alternate causes of depression

A naturopath or holistic doc would be mostly likely to know how to test and treat these issues.

1. Hypothyroidism - need to test with complete thyroid panel - TSH, free T3, free T4, and thyroid antibodies, not just TSH which is commonly done.

2. Celiac disease (causes folate deficiency)- treatment is to stop eating wheat/gluten

3. Folate deficiency (B vitamins in general)

4. Essential fatty acid deficiency (omega 3's/fish oil)

5. Vitamin deficiencies (vitamin C and B complex, most common)
• B complex
• Vit C
• Magnesium
• Calcium
• Zinc
• Iron
• Manganese
• Potassium
• Deficiencies of zinc, magnesium, iron, manganese, chromium or potassium, an excess of vanadium, copper, aluminum, lead or mercury, and either too much or too little calcium can all cause depression or even more serious psychiatric problems

6. Cut out caffeine and refined sugar, both of which have been linked to depression. Drinking more than 700 mg of caffeine a day (which translates into four or five cups of coffee a day) can cause depression, as can a diet with a large amount of refined sugar.

7. Avoid low-fat diets. Although apparently healthy, they may be doing more harm than good, as studies have shown that low-cholesterol diets can lead to depression and even suicide.

8. Mercury toxicity from dental amalgams – http://www.thenaturalrecoveryplan.com/articles/depression-mercury-toxicity.html

• Lead, arsenic and other toxic metals can also cause depression

[axis9313]

You can also try something like Emotional Freedom Technique.

[Maxamillion]

Anyhow, what has perhaps helped me some is accepting that this is the way it is. I don't beat myself us about it.

Thanks Aqua Blue. It's tough not to feel bad about yourself sometimes, when you think "I should be doing more than this". Makes it even worse when others add their judgements. My current therapist recently told me I'm unmotivated. And a few months ago when I finally told a friend how bad the depression was and told her I'd been suicidal, she told me I was lazy, for not doing more to make my life better. Not the first time I've been called that, either. People don't realize how much effort it takes for someone with deep depression to get through a day.

I hope you can get the problems with your meds worked out. It took a long time for the doctors to find something that helped me at all. After trying several SSRI's like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc. one of them switched to a different class of anti-depressants. I'm now taking Pristiq and it helps some.


I don't have your condition, but I wonder if you've tried daily cardio and weight machines at a gym? And have you cut out sugar from your diet? These two items help many improve their emotional ups and downs...very simplistic, I know, but can be quite effective.

I was going to the gym for awhile but since I got laid off a couple of years ago, I haven't been able to afford it. If I can save enough money to take a college class next semester, I can use the gym on campus. I'm just hoping that (a) I can save the money, and (b) the depression doesn't get so bad that I end up dropping out.

I've been working to cut down on the sugar in my diet. The carb cravings get so bad, so I've been doing it gradually, first by cutting out high fructose corn syrup. I've done pretty well with that, though I still slip up from time to time (and that stuff is in almost everything!) Next I'll cut out regular corn syrup and then start cutting out white sugar.


Its that time of year when our bodies begin to realize that the days are shortening. Have you ever considered using Bright Light Therapy?
Are you eating nutritiously and taking a multivitamin? Do you have a support system of friends/family?

I've read about the bright light therapy before. Maybe something to look into, if I can afford it. I definitely need to get outside more, I'm spending way to much time holed up in my apartment (or as I jokingly call it, my hermit cave). My diet's not that good. I'm working slowly to change that. It's difficult, food is my drug. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/sEm_blush3%5B1%5D.gif I don't have much of a support system. None of my family live nearby (and some of them aren't very supportive). I recently moved to a new town, it's taking me awhile to get to know people.


I know how you feel as I too battle the darkness of depression. Some days are worse than others that's for sure. Keep on reaching out...(((hugs)))

Thanks.


You can also try something like Emotional Freedom Technique.

I've looked into this some. I did find a couple of therapists who use EMDR, which I think is supposed to work in a similar way. But neither of them will take my insurance. Thanks for the other suggestions too. I did recently get a full thyroid panel done (since I have so many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism) but the doctor said that everything was normal. I've wondered about trying a gluten-free diet to see if it helped me feel better. I hardly ever drink coffee, but do drink lots of sugary kool-aid. I have some mercury fillings in my teeth. Not anything I can do about them, I don't have the money to get them fixed.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I really appreciate it. This has given me a few ideas of things to try.

[puglogic]

I suffered from lifelong depression, and can honestly say that until I was sick of it enough that I was willing to cut almost all sugar out of my diet, and do regular exercise that got my heart rate up, nothing ever worked. A decent diet, exercise, B vitamins don't cost me any more than doing without them did (you don't need a gym to exercise, btw) but now I have 2-3 days a year of depression rather than 365.

Here's hoping you can find a path that works for you. I know how ick it feels to be stuck in this. (((maxamillion)))

[ApatheticNoMore]

Thanks Aqua Blue. It's tough not to feel bad about yourself sometimes, when you think "I should be doing more than this". Makes it even worse when others add their judgements.

This is part of the problem, beating yourself up. Yes, I guess I really do believe in total unconditional self-love. :)


My current therapist recently told me I'm unmotivated. And a few months ago when I finally told a friend how bad the depression was and told her I'd been suicidal, she told me I was lazy, for not doing more to make my life better. Not the first time I've been called that, either. People don't realize how much effort it takes for someone with deep depression to get through a day.

Well what is it you need to be so motivated for anyway? Looking for work? Ok, if so, I get that. If the reality is that money is running out, and the reality is that as we all know jobs don't usually just show up on our doorstep. Then yes, if you want a job you need to look for work generally. But even if you only manage to apply for a couple of jobs a week, you increase your chances of getting a job by that much. Often the QUALITY of the jobs we apply for (being a good fit) matters more than the sheer quantity anyway (applying for 1000 jobs we are only vaguely fit for, and that we might not even want).

Even people who are not ordinarily depressed can get really depressed in bad economic situations. What is going on now with many is that long term unemployment is DRIVING people to depression (and it's not purely biochemical, it's situational!). If you don't see any hope of getting work month after month it is just a very depressing situation. Feeling exiled from an indifferent society, with no way to be part of it or get money again (how you can feel while unemployed) is just depressing. If that is what is going on I really don't know what to say, just the trite advice to keep applying for jobs and doing your best at interviews etc.

If the "need to be motivated" is about anything other than survival (putting food on the table, and a roof over your head, etc..) then it is *ALL* optional. Sure people want more from life than mere survival. But has anyone ever really achieved it by beating themselves up about not being motivated enough. Especially has anyone prone to depression every achieved it by beating themselves up about not being motivated enough? I doubt it!


I've been working to cut down on the sugar in my diet. The carb cravings get so bad, so I've been doing it gradually, first by cutting out high fructose corn syrup. I've done pretty well with that, though I still slip up from time to time (and that stuff is in almost everything!) Next I'll cut out regular corn syrup and then start cutting out white sugar.

Yea, you crave carbs so much BECAUSE you are depressed and/or stressed. Because sugar releases serotonin, opiates, and the whole 9 yards (it's like it's a party in the mouth! ;) or as the case may be it is at least like feeling almost normal). Sugar is hard to give up. I like where you are heading in giving up corn syrup. High fructose corn syrup is highly unnatural. Also look at the ingredients in your food, food should not contain any artificial or unnatural ingredients, there shouldn't be any ingredients that you don't understand what they are and wouldn't use in your home kitchen. So if due to uncontrollable carb cravings you end up buying say cookies, at least make sure the ingredients are things like: butter, sugar, flour, eggs, chocolate chips. Sure sugar and flour and even chocolate cause some people mood problems. But it is still a big step up from the artificial stuff. I agree with cutting down on caffeine, and if you are getting frappe latte whatevers at Starbucks or something, you really need to give those up, those are highly highly unnatural. If you are consuming them no wonder you are depressed!!! (switch to black tea). To reduce sugar cravings and improve mood I recommend consuming protein and dark green leafy veggies (preferably something like chard, kale, etc.) at least one meal a day. It really does seem to work with me :). But I can't guarantee you'll never want sugar because depression and stress do drive the sugar cravings too.


I definitely need to get outside more, I'm spending way to much time holed up in my apartment (or as I jokingly call it, my hermit cave).

Yes, sunshine. I really recommend it :)


My diet's not that good. I'm working slowly to change that. It's difficult, food is my drug.

There are a lot of REALLY TASTY healthy foods though. Protein and veggies with fat added if you like :). Yea sugar might still be tempting.


I don't have much of a support system. None of my family live nearby (and some of them aren't very supportive). I recently moved to a new town, it's taking me awhile to get to know people.

Yea the support group thing is difficult. Quite honestly it often seems like pulling teeth, everyone is SO BUSY with their own lives. You might be able to find a support group specifically for depression or something though. Even if if is difficult to get a full on support group going you can find ways to spend time with people. Meetup groups perhaps (meetup.com), volunteering perhaps, obviously you need to find something that appeals to you.


I've wondered about trying a gluten-free diet to see if it helped me feel better.

It is possible


I hardly ever drink coffee, but do drink lots of sugary kool-aid.

uh-oh artificial stuff and sugar in it's MOST easily absorbed form (liquid sugar!)

It's difficult because two things you REALLY NEED are not entirely in your hands:
- a job (yea just lack of an income all by itself, regardless of everything else, can be depressing unless you are very well off),
- a NEW therapist (I think bad therapy can actually come to reinforce depression, whether it is better than no therapy is for you to decide) but what you could really benefit from is a good therapist and it doesn't sound like your current one is it for you. Is she/he even compassionate with you when she talks about your "lack of motivation" as in: "this is something we need to work on etc. ..."? You could look into group therapy, or a therapist who charges on a sliding scale. It's tough to beat insurance covered therapy in terms of cost though.

So what else is there? There's social support. Some psychologists have written that depression is LACK OF LOVE. I think they are really on to something (although even with love, lack of job still really sucks :~)). Not just romantic love but general human love and closeness. And then there is making sure you treat your body well: adequate food, healthy food, sunshine, etc.. And then there is working on your thoughts (I think lack of love and so can be just as important as the CBT stuff, but it can help some to look at your thoughts). And there is treating yourself kindly emotionally as well (not beating yourself up).

[ButterflyBreath]

Hi Maxamillion,

Thanks for opening this up. I don’t have what you have but I have bipolar disorder and when I’m depressed I feel like I’m in a hole and can’t get out. It’s hard to get the energy to exercise but I second the posters that suggest that. For me, diet and exercise are linked and if I don’t feel like exercising I try to eat better which makes me feel better and sometimes I get the energy to exercise. Or vice versa. I will exercise to help me eat better. I also take a multivit, iron, fish oil, calcium & vit D every day. I recently quit my anti-dep because I had a manic episode and once that happens you are then too sensitive to the medication. I’ve tried to quit this one before but came running back every time. Now I don’t feel like I need it. Will keep the mood stabilizer for now.

Other things that have worked for me: A year ago or so I made a list of all the things that make me happy. I know what will bring my mood/energy up (naturally) and try to do as many as those things as possible. Unfortunately some do cost money, and your list will contain costly things, so focus on the simple free ones. For example, I love cats, animals in general really, but especially cats. I’m trying to find a cat to adopt. Also, I like gardening which actually can be quite cheap and rewarding so I’ve been doing that more lately. Yoga is good too, but can be costly.

Journal. Priceless. This has been my therapy when I couldn’t afford it. And actually when I could as well, as I do it ongoing. It has REALLY helped me. I say things even when I don't have anything to say. It's called brain dump. I ramble on and on and eventually I get to the bottom of how I feel and what is bothering me. I have gotten to the point where when I don’t journal I feel irritated. I don’t even care if people read them anymore. I don’t think anyone ever has actually. No one seems interested in my crazy thoughts. Maybe I’m addicted. Have you tried journaling? Journals are cheap! You should be able to do that.

Things that depress me: relationships, work, money, shallow people, American society, etc. I am so sensitive to these things and it lowers my energy so I have to be very careful. Are you sensitive to others? Not sure how old you are but a lot of gen x people like me are indigo children (adult now), and a lot suffer from depression and ADD/ADHD. Once I heard about that I felt a sense of peace with myself and my life since I have many of the characteristics. When you’re depressed your soul is searching for truth and sometimes it take a LOT of self-exploration.

[reader99]

Calling a depressed person unmotivated stricks me as richly ironic. In my personal experience the two words are nearly synonymous in terms of behavior, and clinical depression by definition includes inability to take initiative and do stuff.

It sounds as if your condition is serious and may require many lifestyle approaches in addition to medication. I have had significant improvement with the food plan in "Potatoes Not Prozac" by Kathleen Desmaisons. It's normal grocery store food, just the amount and timing are set up to maximize brain chemistry. Really I think the book could have been called Potatoes AS Prozac, since it is a natural method of doing what anti-depressant medications do.

[HappyHiker]

If you're a reader, I'd like to recommend an incredible book that I just finished reading last night. It's "Women Food and God" by Geneen Roth. (the God message is spiritual, and not dogma). The book's premise is that our unhealthy relationship with food--overeating/compulsive eating, consuming foods that are not good for us, is directly related to our relationship with ourselves--and most especially to The Voice inside of ourselves--you know the one? The Voice that tells us we're "too lazy, too fat, too ugly, too stupid, too inept, too worthless"--all the negatives we use to beat ourselves up.

And who among us doesn't fall victim to The Voice? When it becomes too strong and we can't shut it up, we often fall to depression.

Learning to quiet The Voice can be the crucial step to self-acceptance and making food choices that nourish us and keep us well in body, mind and spirit. And, I suspect, in moving out of depression. What is depression but self-haterd turned inward?? And often coupled with our physical body being short on vital minerals and vitamins causing a chemical imbalance. All the anti-depression medications monkey with this chemical balance when often it can be healed more naturally with food and supplements.

Roth authored another book that sounds similar: Feeding the Hungry Heart, which sounds worth a read, too.

I really liked the book--and learned a lot. Many of our voices come from our parents and others who have been non-supportive and critical during our lives....how peaceful it becomes when we learn to tell them to SHUT UP...and we learn how vibrant and strong we really are...

The book was at my local library, maybe yours has it too?

[Mrs. Hermit]

For light therapy, try a full spectrum or "daylight' bulb in a light fixture that is on a good part of your day. Some folks say those really help.

Would getting an exercise tape from the library help you get more exercise?

[ApatheticNoMore]

By the way, I am told there are things called "Family Service Agencies" that have reduced cost or free therapy. Supposedly pretty good, but of course everything in therapy is about how you get along with an individual therapist. But worth looking into IMO.

I also think that stress and depression are linked but I've never been able to do much with that information as I stress on things :), but yea I think stress can cause depression.

I don't believe anyone can tell you you will have to deal with depression for the rest of your life. How should they know?

[chord_ata]

I recommend reading "Undoing Depression". I also recommend reading up on Cognitive Behavior Therapy. "The Feeling Good Handbook" is a great self-help entry into CBT.

In my perspective, depression is a maladaptive way of coping with the fact that an individual is not really congruent with the society we live in. This doesn't say very good things about the society.

My personal approach has been to accept this situation and work out a daily discipline of readings and other recovery practises to help mitigate my own depression. Yes, I am on medication, and will stay on it for the rest of my life, since it appears my brain has become overly sensitive to generating depressive reactions. I am also pursue whatever cognitive approaches I can to develop new trustworthy habits that help me avoid depressive behaviors. It is my new normal.

[axis9313]

I've done a little EMDR with a therapist and a lot of Emotional Freedom Technique on my own. The similarity is you can cause a rapid shift in healing emotions, getting rid of bothersome memories, etc. The difference is EFT is free to learn and portable which is why I suggested it. There are some YouTube videos and a website. http://www.eftuniverse.com/

You can also find an EFT practitioner if you want. I did have sort of a backlash reaction from the EMDR which I don't get with EFT. So not everything is going to work well for everybody. But the main thing is to know that these alternatives exist and to keep trying things until you find something that works.

[rodeosweetheart]

FWIW, I have started taking natural thyroid (American Biologics, but there are others) and have found a surprising lift in mood--that I actually have a little energy and actual moments of happiness. If I do not take it (run out) I go back to a low state. The moments of happiness are surprising because they feel like a return to my basic nature, and I have not felt that way in a long time. So I am thinking hypothyroidism has much to do with my depression. The last screening doc did not show anything, but I have always had a very low body temp (like 95, 96) and that is indicative, and how they used to diagnose hypothyroidism.

[Maxamillion]

I suffered from lifelong depression, and can honestly say that until I was sick of it enough that I was willing to cut almost all sugar out of my diet, and do regular exercise that got my heart rate up, nothing ever worked. A decent diet, exercise, B vitamins don't cost me any more than doing without them did (you don't need a gym to exercise, btw) but now I have 2-3 days a year of depression rather than 365.

Wow, that's great! I didn't realize sugar could have such an effect on depression.



If the "need to be motivated" is about anything other than survival (putting food on the table, and a roof over your head, etc..) then it is *ALL* optional.

She was saying I was unmotivated to get out of the house and be around people. Which shows how very little she understands me, considering what a problem cabin fever and boredom are for me! I tried explaining about the social anxiety and the severe lack of money. Her words: "If you were motivated, the universe would send you the money." Reality check please, table one.



There are a lot of REALLY TASTY healthy foods though. Protein and veggies with fat added if you like :). Yea sugar might still be tempting.

I've been trying to eat healthier but have really slipped up this month. But, I've found the local farmer's market. :D Will definitely be going back next month when I have some more money.



Yea the support group thing is difficult. Quite honestly it often seems like pulling teeth, everyone is SO BUSY with their own lives. You might be able to find a support group specifically for depression or something though. Even if if is difficult to get a full on support group going you can find ways to spend time with people. Meetup groups perhaps (meetup.com), volunteering perhaps, obviously you need to find something that appeals to you.

Too right about everyone being so busy. I've looked online for local support groups and haven't found anything yet. When I go see the p-doc next month (not the therapist, this is the one that does my meds), I'm going to ask her if she knows of any support groups. I did look for groups on meetup.com but didn't find any within driving distance. If I can save up enough money, I'd like to take a college class next semester, so that will help with getting out. And I'll be able to see a counselor there and use the gym on campus.



It's difficult because two things you REALLY NEED are not entirely in your hands:
- a job (yea just lack of an income all by itself, regardless of everything else, can be depressing unless you are very well off),
- a NEW therapist (I think bad therapy can actually come to reinforce depression, whether it is better than no therapy is for you to decide) but what you could really benefit from is a good therapist and it doesn't sound like your current one is it for you. Is she/he even compassionate with you when she talks about your "lack of motivation" as in: "this is something we need to work on etc. ..."? You could look into group therapy, or a therapist who charges on a sliding scale. It's tough to beat insurance covered therapy in terms of cost though.

I'm on disability, so I do have some monthly income. Thank goodness for that. It's not a lot, but I've managed to scrape by. I've had a run of bad therapists lately. There's really not any options left around here. There are a couple that do a sliding scale fee but I can't even afford that. This particular therapist has been very argumentative lately, some of it over stupid little things.



Some psychologists have written that depression is LACK OF LOVE. I think they are really on to something (although even with love, lack of job still really sucks :~)).
Lol, yeah. That's a really good point though.
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I really really appreciate it. I've got to run now, but I'll get a more detailed response to everyone posted later this evening.

[jennipurrr]

I've struggled with anxiety and low grade depression for years. For me, exercise and diet make as much of a difference as any medication I have ever been on. Due to various side affects I prefer to not use medication, but I will go back to it if necessary.

I wasn't a member of a gym either for some time so I got out and walked nearly every day. Someone here actually told me to do that a couple years ago and I took the advice! If it is too cold, hot or rainy I walked in the mall, but I try to get outside. I am fortunate to not live in a severely cold climate SE US, but I was out there even yesterday after work an it was still in the high 90s. Life has been soooo much easier getting exercise and sunshine on a regular basis. Since April have also been doing the couch to 5K running plan (slowly, so not quite finished) and actually getting to be a decent runner! I also never really enjoyed enjoyed exercise, but I really do get the runners high people talk about. It is by far the most enjoyable exercise I have tried. Also, there are tons on exercises you can do at home that are on youtube. I do several ab workouts and do stretching in the mornings when I feel like it that way. On the days I don't feel like getting out and running or walking...those are usually the days I need it the most for my depression and feel the best afterwards.

Also, I did this gimmicky protein bar diet a couple years back. When I went on it I did water only to drink. When I went back and tried coffee drinks or coke the reaction by my body was ridiculous. I wasn't cognizant of the affect of caffeine on my body until I went cold turkey. If you have any anxiety at all caffeine is the enemy! I have done so much better anxiety wise and sleep wise eliminating caffeine. I hate the taste of diet soda so I drink mostly water now (a little beer/wine, a girls gotta live, right?) and I feel so much better for it.

Also, if I am really craving carby foods I take a mental note of that related to my mood. Reducing refined sugar, breads, pasta has helped a lot I believe.

I've tried several therapists over the years. If a therapist isn't working for you don't feel guilty. My best therapist practiced CBT and gave me skills I still use daily. Had bad luck with EMDR, but I think it was mostly the practitioner and that I have not had significant trauma in my life so I don't think I was a particularly good candidate. I was lucky early on that I got a really good therapist (long since retired to a boat in the Bahamas!) and tried a couple others over the years. Unfortunately I haven't found a good one yet and my psych doc laughed when I told her who my first therapist was, and said this town would never find one as good as her, so I am not especially hopeful. I told myself I would get a cleaning lady before I tried another therapist, at least that would relieve my anxiety, ha.

Good luck in the job search and managing your symptoms. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

[Maxamillion]

Other things that have worked for me: A year ago or so I made a list of all the things that make me happy. I know what will bring my mood/energy up (naturally) and try to do as many as those things as possible. Unfortunately some do cost money, and your list will contain costly things, so focus on the simple free ones.

That's a good idea. A lot of mine would cost money, especially since I love to travel. But there's always the library and going to the park (when it's not scorching hot outside lol), gardening, bird watching, and once I can get a helmet and wrist guards (already have knee & elbow pads), rollerblading. And bicycling (though I'd need to buy a bike). I love doing crafts, but have a lot of trouble doing them when I'm depressed.



For example, I love cats, animals in general really, but especially cats. I’m trying to find a cat to adopt. Also, I like gardening which actually can be quite cheap and rewarding so I’ve been doing that more lately. Yoga is good too, but can be costly.

I'm an animal person too. I adopted one cat from PetSmart/Humane Society several years ago. My other kitty was from a stray cat around my apartment that had kittens. Gardening is fun, I've got three small garden plots, although most of the plants just haven't done well this year.



Have you tried journaling? Journals are cheap! You should be able to do that.

I used to journal a lot, have for most of my life, but haven't for the last three or four years. I bought a journal a few months ago to try and get back into it, but still haven't done much writing. Need to though. I used to write a lot of poetry too but haven't done any of that recently either.


It sounds as if your condition is serious and may require many lifestyle approaches in addition to medication. I have had significant improvement with the food plan in "Potatoes Not Prozac" by Kathleen Desmaisons. It's normal grocery store food, just the amount and timing are set up to maximize brain chemistry. Really I think the book could have been called Potatoes AS Prozac, since it is a natural method of doing what anti-depressant medications do.
Cool! I'll take a look at it.


If you're a reader, I'd like to recommend an incredible book that I just finished reading last night. It's "Women Food and God" by Geneen Roth. (the God message is spiritual, and not dogma). The book's premise is that our unhealthy relationship with food--overeating/compulsive eating, consuming foods that are not good for us, is directly related to our relationship with ourselves--and most especially to The Voice inside of ourselves--you know the one? The Voice that tells us we're "too lazy, too fat, too ugly, too stupid, too inept, too worthless"--all the negatives we use to beat ourselves up.


Sounds interesting, I'll look it up. I'll check on the other one too by her.


Would getting an exercise tape from the library help you get more exercise?

I've got a couple of tapes, just usually don't feel like going through them. I've even got some weights and a yoga kit. It's just trying to make myself exercise. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/sEm_blush3%5B1%5D.gif It was so much easier to stay motivated to exercise when I was going to the gym. One, because of the encouragement I got there, but also because of the money I was paying, lol. I wanted to get my money's worth.


I also think that stress and depression are linked but I've never been able to do much with that information as I stress on things http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/8834%5B1%5D.gif, but yea I think stress can cause depression.

Agree with you there. I stress out on things too. I try not too, but it happens anyway.



I don't believe anyone can tell you you will have to deal with depression for the rest of your life. How should they know?
Yeah, being told that was...depressing. The thought of feeling this depressed for the next thirty, forty, or fifty years...http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/sSa_sad%5B1%5D.gif


I recommend reading "Undoing Depression". I also recommend reading up on Cognitive Behavior Therapy. "The Feeling Good Handbook" is a great self-help entry into CBT.

Thanks, I'll check on those.



In my perspective, depression is a maladaptive way of coping with the fact that an individual is not really congruent with the society we live in. This doesn't say very good things about the society.

Too right on that!


I've done a little EMDR with a therapist and a lot of Emotional Freedom Technique on my own. The similarity is you can cause a rapid shift in healing emotions, getting rid of bothersome memories, etc. The difference is EFT is free to learn and portable which is why I suggested it. There are some YouTube videos and a website. http://www.eftuniverse.com/


Thanks for the link. Wish I could afford a therapist who does the EMDR; I've found two therapists who do this, but even the one that has a sliding scale fee isn't cheap. I haven't found anyone who does the EFT. I'll look into it, maybe I can do some of this myself (it's been awhile since I've read about either of these).


So I am thinking hypothyroidism has much to do with my depression. The last screening doc did not show anything, but I have always had a very low body temp (like 95, 96) and that is indicative, and how they used to diagnose hypothyroidism.

I recently got a full thyroid panel done. The doctor said my levels were within normal range. My TSH levels were over 3.0 though, and from what I've been reading lately, some labs now consider anything over 3.0 to be a thyroid problem. Mine was something like 3.5, or 3.7. I've got so many of the symptoms, including low body temperature (my normal body temp runs in the 97 range, but has run lower--when I'm sick, and my temp is in the 98-99 range, I have to tell the doctors that that's fever for me). I wonder if I could convince the doctor to try me on some thyroid meds to see if it makes a difference.

[Maxamillion]

I wasn't a member of a gym either for some time so I got out and walked nearly every day. Someone here actually told me to do that a couple years ago and I took the advice! If it is too cold, hot or rainy I walked in the mall, but I try to get outside. I am fortunate to not live in a severely cold climate SE US, but I was out there even yesterday after work an it was still in the high 90s.

I'm in the SE US too. It's been so hot the last few weeks; I can't really take the heat, so when I do go out to exercise or garden, it has to be early morning or late evening. My mom suggested recently walking at the mall, too. If I can find a time when there's not a lot of people, I may do that. I would do a lot of walking at the craft store, but that may be too much temptation there, lol. Not much at the mall I'm interested in, so walking there would be safe for my finances. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/smiley-laughing002%5B1%5D.gif



Life has been soooo much easier getting exercise and sunshine on a regular basis. Since April have also been doing the couch to 5K running plan (slowly, so not quite finished) and actually getting to be a decent runner! I also never really enjoyed enjoyed exercise, but I really do get the runners high people talk about. It is by far the most enjoyable exercise I have tried.

I'll look into that plan! I'd love to be able to run, but am so out of shape right now, I can't for more than a few seconds without being able to breathe and hurting all over. Even just walking for 30 minutes is so physically unpleasant; really doesn't make me look forward to it. I walked for 30 minutes yesterday morning (about a mile) and when I got through I was hurting--legs, shoulders, hips, back, and part of my right leg was numb. Scary how out of shape I've gotten just in the last two years.




Also, I did this gimmicky protein bar diet a couple years back. When I went on it I did water only to drink. When I went back and tried coffee drinks or coke the reaction by my body was ridiculous. I wasn't cognizant of the affect of caffeine on my body until I went cold turkey. If you have any anxiety at all caffeine is the enemy! I have done so much better anxiety wise and sleep wise eliminating caffeine. I hate the taste of diet soda so I drink mostly water now (a little beer/wine, a girls gotta live, right?) and I feel so much better for it.

I hate the taste of diet sodas too. I don't consume a lot of caffeine, except for the very occasional Mountain Dew craving (maybe two or three times a month). But I've noticed on days when I drink Mountain Dew, especially after noon, the insomnia that night is so much worse than usual. Friday evening a friend and me went to Taco Bell, and I had a couple of cups of Mountain Dew--I wasn't able to get to sleep until 8:00 the next morning and even then was only able to sleep a couple of hours.




I've tried several therapists over the years. If a therapist isn't working for you don't feel guilty.

Yeah, I've been wondering if it's something wrong with me that I keep having problems and conflicts with so many therapists and even some of the psych docs I've had. But there have been some truly bad ones, like the therapist that would spend whole sessions talking about herself and even admitted that we weren't getting around to my therapy (and I was having to pay for those, since my insurance didn't completely cover it...I still owe her about $70). Then there was the one who made some vicious personal remarks to me...and laughed about it. And the psychdoc that asked really personal sexual questions that had nothing to do with why I was there. And....I could go on for awhile. All these have just been in the last year. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/shocked%5B1%5D.gif



Good luck in the job search and managing your symptoms. I'll keep you in my thoughts.
Thanks. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/8834%5B1%5D.gif

[Jemima]

Speaking as a former psychotherapist, my opinion is that many of them are disturbed people themselves, and that goes for shrinks as well. I don't like the fact that your therapist is being critical. Depression is largely a chemical imbalance and IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Lack of motivation is a symptom of depression, not some personality problem that you can fix yourself.

I had a major depressive episode last summer and had to be hospitalized. Unfortunately, I was taken off Lexapro (which I hadn't been taking as prescribed) and put on Pristiq plus Remeron for sleep. The Pristiq took a good eight weeks to have any effect, it made me hyper, and caused bleeding because no one bothered to tell me that it shouldn't be taken with aspirin. I got a lung infection from nosebleeds and the respiratory side effects of Remeron. After detoxing from Remeron over a period of a month or so, my family doctor switched me back to Lexapro and I've been doing very well ever since. It's uber important to find the right medication. In your case, correcting a thyroid disorder may make the whole problem disappear. There are many physical, medical reasons for depression and hypothyroidism is one of them.

I went to a therapist for about two months after I was discharged from the hospital, and while she did no harm, she didn't help either. Having to dash to her office in the evenings after a tiring work day and a three hour round trip commute while (unkowingly) developing walking pneumonia only added more stress to my life. The people I know who've had major depressive episodes say that therapy didn't help, but getting the right medication made a big difference for the better.

In the meantime, don't make exercising so unpleasant for yourself! Walk for ten minutes instead of thirty, or even five minutes. Stop when it becomes uncomfortable. Do a few stretching exercises indoors. Build up slowly to more.

If at all possible, do some volunteer work. It helps a lot to get your focus off of yourself and can result in jobs leads, good references, and even making some friends.

I'm Christian, and going to church helps me quite a bit along with knowing that there is a "family" there to whom I can turn for help. Finding a good church may take some shopping around, though, and that takes energy. I'm sorry to say that some "churches" are nothing but social clubs.

There are lots of cheap craft projects you can do. Check your library or the web for ideas. Maybe just reading about them will give you some pleasure if you aren't up to doing them just yet. Ditto for gardening. What could you plant for fall and winter in the Southwest? (Can't help you there - I live about thirty miles north of Philadelphia.)

Keep pushing for that thyroid medication and give us an update on how you're doing from time to time. :)

[poetry_writer]

I once saw a psychiatrist during a period of intense stress...the death of several family members over a period of three years, unemployment and a great deal of difficulty sleeping. The woman was quite simply nuts. She began ranting about bizarre subjects and ridiculed me. I left her office very upset and shocked. I found another psychiatrist who was excellent and presribed the right meds for me. I am again having sleep issues, which has been a lifelong thing for me off and on. So I am going back to this particular doctor. In my area, the general practice docs dont want to touch this kind of thing, which I find a bit odd. Hope things work out for you.

[babr]

I may be jumping in on this thread a bit late and am unable to read all that has been written due to nerve pain behind my eyes but i also suffer from dysthymia; i know someone mentioned being very sensitive; i have always been that way about others, about our country, our planet

I agree it is a biological condition; i too use sugar to try to soothe myself; as having multiple health problems adds to the depression;

I am fortunate enough to have been a clinical social worker and to know what works for me with therapists; i finally found one that just lets me be wherever i am and doesn't get into alot of what i call psychobabble; though i shouldn't put interventions down they do help some; but i think changing your diet isn't the complete answer unless you have health problems

yyou really have to develop your own coping skills that get you through the day

i am fortunate to have a spouse who after some time went to see a therapist who supports him as living with someone who has depression or any other mental illlness can be trying

i wish everyone luck; find what works for you

and thanks for the note about not beating yourself up; i am trying to work on that as i have always been the half empy glass gal; and have put myself down because i am not polly positive

take care
Kris

[ButterflyBreath]

Yes, it def could be caused by a medical condition. I have a friend who said she would read a page and not have a clue as to what she had just read. She said it was scary because she's a nurse and her patients' lives depended on her. Finally she went to her doctor and actually got into a fight with him because he didn't want to get testing done. He finally gave in, she had a bunch of different tests done and found out she was almost 0, which is critical. So add Vitamin C to your list of things to be checked!

[Maxamillion]

It's uber important to find the right medication. In your case, correcting a thyroid disorder may make the whole problem disappear. There are many physical, medical reasons for depression and hypothyroidism is one of them.

Yeah, I'm really hoping the doctor will agree to try a thyroid med to see if it helps. I have all but one or two symptoms of hypothyroidism, I couldn't believe it when she said my tests were okay.



I went to a therapist for about two months after I was discharged from the hospital, and while she did no harm, she didn't help either. Having to dash to her office in the evenings after a tiring work day and a three hour round trip commute while (unkowingly) developing walking pneumonia only added more stress to my life. The people I know who've had major depressive episodes say that therapy didn't help, but getting the right medication made a big difference for the better.

Wow, that sounds uber stressful. Therapy has never really helped me much, except to unwind a bit and have someone to talk to. There's been a couple of good ones. Mostly mediocre, and a handful of rather bad ones.


In the meantime, don't make exercising so unpleasant for yourself! Walk for ten minutes instead of thirty, or even five minutes. Stop when it becomes uncomfortable. Do a few stretching exercises indoors. Build up slowly to more.

Heh, I get impatient for results. When I can actually make myself exercise, I try to really make it count.



If at all possible, do some volunteer work. It helps a lot to get your focus off of yourself and can result in jobs leads, good references, and even making some friends.

It's a good idea. The social anxiety I have makes it difficult, but I did ask the other day at the library if they were looking for volunteers. She told me the lady I needed to talk to wasn't there that day, but it was a pretty big step for me. I've also thought about checking with the vet's office to see if they'd let me volunteer. I don't know if they do that, but thought I'd check.


I'm Christian, and going to church helps me quite a bit along with knowing that there is a "family" there to whom I can turn for help. Finding a good church may take some shopping around, though, and that takes energy. I'm sorry to say that some "churches" are nothing but social clubs.

I don't follow any particular religion (though I am spiritual). I've gone to the UU church a couple of times and plan on going back. It's just having the gas money (since it's not nearby) and being able to get over the anxiety (which is usually worse in the mornings).



Keep pushing for that thyroid medication and give us an update on how you're doing from time to time. :)
Thanks.


I found another psychiatrist who was excellent and presribed the right meds for me. I am again having sleep issues, which has been a lifelong thing for me off and on. So I am going back to this particular doctor. In my area, the general practice docs dont want to touch this kind of thing, which I find a bit odd. Hope things work out for you.

I'm glad you were able to find a good doctor. Not always the easiest thing to do, I hate shopping around for doctors. I have insomnia too. The doctors have prescribed a few different things to help me sleep but it always turns me into a zombie the next day. So far the best thing I've found is to take a Benadryl a couple of hours before going to sleep. A small dose of Xanax has also helped me sleep well in the past but it's hard to find a doc willing to prescribe it (since it can be addictive).


and thanks for the note about not beating yourself up; i am trying to work on that as i have always been the half empy glass gal; and have put myself down because i am not polly positive

Yeah, I've always been a glass-is-half-empty sort of person too. Working on improving my attitude but...not quite there yet, heh.


Yes, it def could be caused by a medical condition. I have a friend who said she would read a page and not have a clue as to what she had just read. She said it was scary because she's a nurse and her patients' lives depended on her. Finally she went to her doctor and actually got into a fight with him because he didn't want to get testing done. He finally gave in, she had a bunch of different tests done and found out she was almost 0, which is critical. So add Vitamin C to your list of things to be checked!

Wow. I had some blood tests done a few months ago (have to get them every 6 months because of my blood pressure pills); Next time I'm up that way, I'll see about getting a copy of my results and see what they tested for.

[Mrs-M]

Thinking of everyone here who battles depression. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Lainey]

... she had a bunch of different tests done and found out she was almost 0, which is critical. So add Vitamin C to your list of things to be checked!

I don't understand - what was -0-?

[Anne Lee]

I saw this today. Another plus one for exercise.


Can a stroll help ease depression? That question preoccupied Dr. Madhukar H. Trivedi, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, after several of his patients, all suffering from serious depression, mentioned that they felt happier if they went for a walk. The patients in question were taking the widely prescribed antidepressants known as S.S.R.I.’s, for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, but not responding fully. They remained, by clinical standards, depressed. Dr. Trivedi and his colleagues began to wonder if adding a formal “dose” of exercise would increase their chances of getting better.
Read more: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/prescribing-exercise-to-treat-depression/

[ButterflyBreath]

Lainey, sorry, I meant to say that her level of vitamin C was almost 0! I don't know what the range is, but she said she was almost 0 and it was a critical situation.