Dreading Christmas and Thanksgiving [Archive]

frugalone

10-9-11, 1:17am

EDIT: I would really appreciate it if the moderators could delete this thread. Some of my posts have caused serious problems in my family. Thank you.

Hi, folks,

It's only October, but I'm dreading the upcoming holidays.

d of made up for it. However, two things have happened: 1. We are w/out income this year and 2) My SIL no longer wants to host things at HER house. There's a third thing: A lot of the food goes

So, here it is: How do I make changes, suggestions, etc., w/out really making anyone mad at us? I am 47 years old. Isn't it about time I took a stand? Should I really be buying gifts for "those who have it all" when we are broke?

How do I handle this?

Thank you all for listening to me.

lhamo

10-9-11, 2:04am

I would write a note to the adults, keeping it short, sweet and honest. SOmething like the following:

Dear Family,

As you all know, the last couple of years have been very difficult for DH and I due to being out of work. We love you all and love to spend time with you during the holidays, but unfortunately we do not have any income to spend on food or gifts. If you would like to discuss with us ways to plan family celebrations that will not involve spending money on our part, we would be happy to do so -- we are more than willing to contribute our labor, etc. Please let us know by [date] if you would like to make holiday arrangements that include us on these terms. If we do not hear from you by then, we will make our own plans for a simple, no-cost holiday celebration of our own.

redfox

10-9-11, 2:05am

Here is what I would do:
1. Get crystal clear on how I want to spend my holidays.
2. Ask spouse to do same
3. Use this clarity to inform a convo with spouse about how we as a couple want to spend the holidays.
4. Share plans with family in a casual yet firm manner.
5. Manage reactivity to whatever family replies to this.
6. Stay clear and on message to all.
7. Have lovely holidays doing what we want.

Gifts not freely given are not gifts, and doing things you don't want to do is your choice and totally within your control. You cannot control if someone gets mad at you; that's their business. You can control your resentment; that's entirely your business & no one else's.

sweetana3

10-9-11, 6:41am

Two excellent responses.

It is amazing the emotional baggage these "holidays" create. My husband and I try hard to make them more and more unimportant and spred around the good feelings thruout the year. I would rather find something enjoyable for someone or send a card during the year than have it lost in the stuff at a holiday.

It acutally horrifys me how some kids are trained early that a birthday or holiday is just a reason to get a pile of stuff.

Marianne

10-9-11, 7:56am

Yes, excellent responses! I sure would let the SIL know that there's no way that you can afford to host this dinner! What about volunteering to serve, etc at the local mission that has the free dinner for homeless, etc? You could avoid the family tension by being unavailable and help out those who have even less.

My first thoughts while reading the original post:

Why is there wasted food? In our family, there's no such thing. Everyone brings extra containers and we split leftovers. We all have refrigerators (eat salads first!) and freezers.

Why spend so much money on desserts and your own food? Our DS#1 is vegetarian. The last holiday he was here, he made a pot of 'curry' for himself, the rest of us brought cut up veggies, baked sweet potatoes, simple desserts - things that we all would eat.

The gift giving has reached epic proportions! We stopped exchanging gifts probably 10 years ago, except for our one grandchild - who also has too much! We play up the importance of getting together, eating too much and playing cards, dominoes or some board games. Cheesy, but fun.

A couple of the neatest gifts I have seen for kids:
A dollar bill folded origami (sp?) style into a little boot
A two dollar bill - something that a kid has never seen.

My heart goes out to you. Our preceptions of what the holidays 'should' be, but aren't, are greatly magnified by the depression (I've been there). Hang in there and stand your ground politely.

iris lily

10-9-11, 12:02pm

I'm sorry you are experiencing this. You've received good advice here. The only thing I will reiterate is:

You have to make decisions that are best for yourself and you cannot control if others become angry because of it.

frugalone

10-9-11, 6:45pm

Thank you, all. I will be discussing this with DH and we'll be planning this way in advance.

I guess I need to clarify "wasted food." What I mean by that is "stuff that didn't get eaten." Like there's always way too much leftover desserts. Sure, somebody eats them, but I feel it would be better to have "enough" and not so much that there's tons of leftovers. Plus, I should have mentioned that DB, SIL and Nephew are following a gluten-free diet, so they are not eating desserts. Last year I made this mistake of taking "orders", i.e., OK, who wants what for dessert? And some of the people who requested stuff barely touched it.

Thank you again. I appreciate your input. I'll keep you posted!

Sad Eyed Lady

10-9-11, 10:19pm

You have received some exceptional advice here. Personally, DH & I have not exchanged Christmas gifts with anyone, (or even each other), for over 30 years, and at the time that we stopped doing the commercial Christmas thing, my family was completely okay with it. Now all these years later there pretty well is just the two of us so it's not an issue, but I can understand how hard it can be that first year to take a stand on what you believe and want to do. They may be more understanding that you think, but you have to be clear on it yourself first. Your excellent advice here should help you.

pinkytoe

10-10-11, 10:32am

The holidays with family have always been a recurring theme in our married life - his family. This constant expectation that such and such holiday has to occur at someone's house and everyone must come bearing gifts or food - does get old. I think in your case that you have to be very firm that this year you will be doing things differently - why not just stay home and enjoy a quiet holiday with each other? And not feel guilty about it. They'll get over it. And maybe the following year, your situation will have changed and you will feel better about getting together.

treehugger

10-10-11, 12:22pm

I am a huge fan of cutting out the things that bring you stress and focusing on what brings you joy, especially at the holidays. My husband and I completely opted out of all gift exchanges years ago (8 or 9) and we couldn't be happier with this decision.

You've gotten lots of great advice already, but I just wanted to chime in on agreement with 2 crucial points: 1) you cannot control how others react to the changes you want to implement; and 2) recognize that guilt and resentment that you feel is your responsibility and therefore, you can choose to let it go.

And lastly, whatever changes you and your husband decide to make, remember that you can only make them for yourselves. Do not try to change the way others celebrate. If you don't approve of their choices and show this, that won't be a fun gathering for anyone.

Good luck. I really do wish you the best and believe you can reclaim the joy of these holidays!

Kara

janharker

10-10-11, 8:55pm

I married into a family that had a tradition of Christmas gifts. Everyone got things for all the kids.And the kids' kids. Somewhere in the recent past, but before my arrival, an arrangement was made that there would be drawing of names for the adults, but that all the kids below college age would get something from everyone. This, too, has become cumbersome. Because there was an insistence that everyone be involved, even though people lived as far away as Oregon and Florida.

Being the newcomer to the family I had some leeway as to ideas. Also, I'm not afraid to make someone uncomfortable if reality requires it. So... Last year, after over a year's worth of pressing, I got the family to stop the drawing of names for the extended family and the giving of gifts to all the kids. Jeeze! The kids included children of nephews and nieces! Now, there is no giving of gifts except within immediate families. None of this extended family stuff.

My commitment to not having clutter and the accumulation of things won out. While I must say that my DH did not support me in my campaign, the whole family finally came around to confessing that they wanted to stop all the giving and last Christmas was the first trial of the new plan. Everyone seemed satisfied.

Moral of the story: sometimes it takes a steadfast soul to drag others toward what they wanted all along.

razz

10-11-11, 7:55am

Just a thought to share. We approached the extended family about discontinuing the whole gift business many years ago just because it was enough of the hassle, not knowing what to get, the level of stress etc. My point is that one does not need to be unemployed to say "enough already!" No apologies.

We buy gifts for DGS and enjoy the rest of the immediate family with a nice meal when they are able to come for a visit. We don't meet with extended family around the holidays but only when the opportunity comes up.

Having said that, if one of us needs a hand, we try to be there in some practical way.

For Thanksgiving in Canada this past weekend, my DH had commented several times that I was getting too stressed about the meal prep so I simply ordered Chinese food. No muss, no fuss. Life is not worth getting stressed about things that can be changed.

LIB, you can do whatever gives you peace of mind. Not because you are unemployed but because this is what you choose to do. Go for it!

leslieann

10-11-11, 8:47am

Here's a hug, lady (((((ladyinblack1964)))))). I feel blessed that my step mother hosts a fun thanksgiving. The biggest blessing of this gathering is that there are NO EXPECTATIONS except if you come, you'll do your best to be good company. I love it. I understand that this is a rare thing, though, and so I appreciate it hugely.

I am sure you will be able to find something that feels okay to you and your DH (that's the priority, as I see it, anyway....how it feels to YOU) and the recommendation to remember that you are not responsible for how other people FEEL about your choices is a good one. (Not easy, especially if you habitually take on other people's feelings, but a good recommendation).

Blessings to you, however you decide to have (or not have) your holidays. After all it is your life....and your holidays....too!

DH and I did this the first couple of years we were together: both reeling and still wounded from divorces, hating the holidays and missing our respective children, we made a little list of what was important to us for Christmas and then tried to work from there. It was a good exercise and helped me to cut through the crap.

Stella

10-11-11, 11:47am

You might be surprised. My mom's family is quite wealthy and when I was a kid they were pretty materialistic. When we decided to ease off the gifts, sometime in my teens, I think, we were all just fine with it. It's been years and years since we did any major gift giving and all is well.

$75 for desserts seems like a lot. Is it because there are a lot of people or because you tend to bring a wide variety of desserts? Maybe it would simplify things to make 1-2 kinds of desserts. Maybe something cheap, like homemade cake or brownies. Even if you make several pans of brownies it's not especially expensive or hard. Maybe do a variety of bars. Those are easy and cheap and there are lots of variations. Plain brownies, brownies with mint, brownies with or']ange or raspberry, blondies, cookie bars, etc. Or homemade gingerbread cake. That's cheap and easy too, and very Christmasy. Maybe gingerbread and a flourless chocolate cake for the gluten free crowd. That would not be too expensive.

domestic goddess

10-12-11, 1:20pm

I am always amazed by the number of family issue that come up around the holidaWon't don't have any of that in my family. Are we "normal" or strange? It seems we are in the minority.
Good advice given here, I think.

Bastelmutti

10-12-11, 5:14pm

Of course, you should be able to opt out of everything if you want to. I had two "scaled down" ideas if you still wish to participate in some of these festivities. Rice pudding is a good, inexpensive, gluten-free dessert. Pretty much everyone likes it, and a giant bowl would cost maybe $5. You could even pair it with some chocolate or fruit if you want to spruce it up.

Also, my family is relatively small, but we decided a few Christmases ago to do an inexpensive, fun activity in lieu of gifts with the cousins + spouses (total of 12 of us - not all might attend each time). We each buy a bottle of wine and decorate it, then everyone votes on a winner. Winner gets the traveling Christmas vest (a really "unique" vest my aunt received as a gift and donated for this purpose), and everyone takes home someone else's bottle of wine. It helps, of course, if everyone is a wine drinker!

fidgiegirl

10-12-11, 6:03pm

ladyinblack, sorry to hear about all this. The holidays are supposed to be joyous but they are a weight for so many. I have experienced this, too, though not to the degree you are feeling it.

This won't help you, but is just another thought to add to the gifting aspect. I think I have learned from other people's families is to avoid starting the giving of gifts to the children of the extended family. It sounds so mean to put it like that. What I mean is, I think what happens is that people give to the first niece/nephew/grandchild/child of a cousin/etc. because it's the only one. Or they go really whole-hog, because heck, it's only one kid, and it's so cute! And it's the first! But then pretty soon there are 10 nieces and nephews or all of your cousins have 2 kids each within 5 years and eek! It's out of control! But the first kid has nothing to compare the whole gift-giving thing to. First kid is just a baby, and will learn whatever s/he is taught, whether that be that ALL the aunties and uncles and cousins are going to give lots of goodies or that they are not, but that s/he is still loved. So I'm hoping we can take that as a caution in our family, at least with nieces and nephews (if any ever come to exist). If we never start, or at least never start on a large scale, we'll never have to have this angst and explaining to children and hurt feelings about having to stop.

It feels so wrong to even write this, maybe I just didn't put it quite right even though I know what I'm thinking isn't mean, but then it also feels wrong to think about people in ladyinblack's situation, or to have watched my friend's 3 year old so overwhelmed with the presents at his birthday that he couldn't even open them all, or to hear my friend tell how she and her husband are strapped but her sister has had seven kids and my friend feels she can't discontinue gift giving to her nieces and nephews at a certain level.

Love the folded bill idea, though. Still a little something special to say "I love you and was thinking of you," but affordable and memorable.

iris lily

10-12-11, 6:48pm

I always think that those who are rigid in their expectations that XMAS et al must encompass a pile 'o gifts and a groaning table 'o food are probably lacking in imagination. We must recognize that lack, but that doesn't mean that we have to acquiesce.

Spartana

10-13-11, 2:05pm

And of course you can opt out of even spending the holidays with your family and just do something fun and inexpensive/free with DH. I and my ex-DH have always had jobs that required us to work on holidays so we never spent holidays with other family members - either his large family opr my small one. So DH and I often just sent a "family" gift for everyone - usually a big box of not-too-expensive chocolates - to who ever was hosting his family Christmas get together rather then many individual gifts. After we were living near my small family (Mom and Sis) we still worked holidays as did my sister. So when we'd get off work, we'd grab my Mom and just do something fun like go ride our bikes or hike or whatever. Maybe exchange a few inexpensive fun gifts (which we nicknamed SSG - small ****ty gifts ;-)), drink a little (or alot) of eggnog and have a very simple dinner instead of spending time flying all over the country to visit his large family. He would do that when he had more time off. So you don't HAVE to spend the holidays together if it's too stressful and too costly for you. Just tell your family that you and DH decided to spend a romantic time for the holidays at home this year and don't feel guilty about it. Send on small "family" gift for everyone to share and enjoy a quiet (and romantic) day at home with DH.

Mighty Frugal

10-13-11, 4:03pm

I love Spartana's suggestion. Tell tehma ll you two are having a romantic Christmas just the two of you and then send a small family gift for all to enjoy-basket of fruit, or cake, or cookies.

Spartana

10-13-11, 4:32pm

I love Spartana's suggestion. Tell tehma ll you two are having a romantic Christmas just the two of you and then send a small family gift for all to enjoy-basket of fruit, or cake, or cookies.

The best Christmas I ever had was when DH and I (we were both in the Coast Guard stationed on ships 2000 miles apart) met up in Maine where I was stationed and spent Christmas day hiking thru falling snow and stopping for dinner to a cute little chinese restaurant. Then walking back after dark to our motel room (I lived aboard the ship) with a tiny tree we decorated with popcorn thru the fresh snow with an unbelievably clear star filled sky over head and all the houses decorated. It was great! We had no presents for each other, and we had no family near by, but it was perfect. Highly recommend a no fuss, easy holiday alone with just the sweetie (and kids) for everyone at least once in their lifetime.

Sissy

10-14-11, 11:13am

Now that I am in the category of "going to Granny's" for holidays, this is how I feel: Each family unit should have their own celebrations at their own homes first. If they want to pile on gifts, that is their deal. This should be done before coming to Granny's house. We eat and catch up and such at Granny's house. We always pretty much "graze" at our house, so a big meal is not really put on the table.

Ok, that said, there is always someone that feels that they have to bring gifts. I would say thanks, let them feel awkward and then it probably won't happen again. I will, on the other hand, get my Gd's gifts because there will be only 3, and I don't want to miss the fun of watching them. Everyone else needs to learn the program.

Adults can be so childish.

frugalone

10-16-11, 2:56pm

Stella, What happened was that I ended up taking orders like a waitress. I asked people what they wanted for dessert. We usually make two pumpkin pies, one for the dairy-intolerant and one for everyone else, and my sister is really fond of these Polish-style dessert rolls (lekvar, poppy, something like that) that are about $10 each. I usually get three of them.We end up eating not even half of each one and my sis takes the leftovers to work. Plus my BIL wanted a pumpkin roll. THEN it happened to be aunt's b-day and my mom shows up with a small b-day cake which kinda took away from the other desserts. Then we make cranberry sauce from scratch, plus we make an entree (a veggie pot pie) because we do not eat meat. I think I added up all the costs and it was about $70. That was the food total, not just desserts...sorry for the misunderstanding.

Then my sister's kids ask for things like pomegranates and chocolate pudding--most of which doesn't get eaten. They are kind of spoiled and I'm getting tired of catering to children.

You might be surprised. My mom's family is quite wealthy and when I was a kid they were pretty materialistic. When we decided to ease off the gifts, sometime in my teens, I think, we were all just fine with it. It's been years and years since we did any major gift giving and all is well.

$75 for desserts seems like a lot. Is it because there are a lot of people or because you tend to bring a wide variety of desserts? Maybe it would simplify things to make 1-2 kinds of desserts. Maybe something cheap, like homemade cake or brownies. Even if you make several pans of brownies it's not especially expensive or hard. Maybe do a variety of bars. Those are easy and cheap and there are lots of variations. Plain brownies, brownies with mint, brownies with or']ange or raspberry, blondies, cookie bars, etc. Or homemade gingerbread cake. That's cheap and easy too, and very Christmasy. Maybe gingerbread and a flourless chocolate cake for the gluten free crowd. That would not be too expensive.

frugalone

10-16-11, 3:09pm

Fidgie--Don't feel weird about writing this. I went to a b-day party yesterday for the two daughters of my first cousin (they are 1 and 4). Their parents have substance abuse issues and are in and out of rehab. My uncle and aunt are raising the girls. My aunt and uncle were also very very good to me during a troubled time in my life, so between that a feeling of "the poor little girls" we go to the party. The 1 year old was oblivious, of course, and DH observed that the 4 year old seemed miserable most of the day. I do not go to parties for my other cousin's kids (Have never been invited and that's fine).

Just a note: while at the party, DH asked our nephew (11, spoiled) if he had enjoyed the video tape we gave him for his birthday. DH had a tape of the Smothers Brothers displaying various yo-yo tricks, as yo-yos were N11's latest interest. DH made sure to explain to N11 that this was a treasured possession of DH's and he wanted to pass it along. N11 replied that he didn't even watch it yet. Since August.

All this kid wants is gift cards so he can go buy more violent videogames or $40 yo-yos. I'm sick of this cr*p.

ladyinblack, sorry to hear about all this. The holidays are supposed to be joyous but they are a weight for so many. I have experienced this, too, though not to the degree you are feeling it.

This won't help you, but is just another thought to add to the gifting aspect. I think I have learned from other people's families is to avoid starting the giving of gifts to the children of the extended family. It sounds so mean to put it like that. What I mean is, I think what happens is that people give to the first niece/nephew/grandchild/child of a cousin/etc. because it's the only one. Or they go really whole-hog, because heck, it's only one kid, and it's so cute! And it's the first! But then pretty soon there are 10 nieces and nephews or all of your cousins have 2 kids each within 5 years and eek! It's out of control! But the first kid has nothing to compare the whole gift-giving thing to. First kid is just a baby, and will learn whatever s/he is taught, whether that be that ALL the aunties and uncles and cousins are going to give lots of goodies or that they are not, but that s/he is still loved. So I'm hoping we can take that as a caution in our family, at least with nieces and nephews (if any ever come to exist). If we never start, or at least never start on a large scale, we'll never have to have this angst and explaining to children and hurt feelings about having to stop.

It feels so wrong to even write this, maybe I just didn't put it quite right even though I know what I'm thinking isn't mean, but then it also feels wrong to think about people in ladyinblack's situation, or to have watched my friend's 3 year old so overwhelmed with the presents at his birthday that he couldn't even open them all, or to hear my friend tell how she and her husband are strapped but her sister has had seven kids and my friend feels she can't discontinue gift giving to her nieces and nephews at a certain level.

Love the folded bill idea, though. Still a little something special to say "I love you and was thinking of you," but affordable and memorable.

frugalone

10-16-11, 3:10pm

That sounds really sweet!

The best Christmas I ever had was when DH and I (we were both in the Coast Guard stationed on ships 2000 miles apart) met up in Maine where I was stationed and spent Christmas day hiking thru falling snow and stopping for dinner to a cute little chinese restaurant. Then walking back after dark to our motel room (I lived aboard the ship) with a tiny tree we decorated with popcorn thru the fresh snow with an unbelievably clear star filled sky over head and all the houses decorated. It was great! We had no presents for each other, and we had no family near by, but it was perfect. Highly recommend a no fuss, easy holiday alone with just the sweetie (and kids) for everyone at least once in their lifetime.

ctg492

10-17-11, 5:47pm

ladyinblack1964, when you find the answer you can live with and do, LET me know please! I am 50 and yes the holidays I feel the same way. I will read the posts and see if I too can take a stand.

Packratona!

10-17-11, 6:59pm

Wow all these pagan traditions that pass as "Christian" (though they are anything but) are a real heavy load to carry. Just dump them all, be free! Why let people lay guilt trips on you or lay them on yourself! Be free! There really is a pretty short (relatively) list of thou shalts and thou shalt nots, why not just stick with them, life is much much easier that way! End the bondage!

iris lily

10-17-11, 9:04pm

frugalone

10-18-11, 4:40pm

Thank you all for listening, and for understanding, and for your suggestions. You guys rock!

redfox

10-18-11, 7:19pm

It can be hard to assert one's stance in one's family of origin... there are so many unspoken expectations of goodness-knows-what! Developing firm yet permeable boundaries is definitely doable, so one can hold one's position lovingly, not punitively, and stay in relationship while still getting what you need.

It took me years to figure it out, and here on the other side, I can say that it was worth it, and it gets easier. Blessings!

poetry_writer

10-23-11, 8:35pm

We used to always go to my parents house Christmas Eve. My kids have delightful memories of the simply happy Christmases there......Now they are both gone. Grandparents dont live forever. Just something to think on.......

jennipurrr

10-27-11, 12:18pm

I can sympathize with the family Christmas horror stories. Holidays stress me out in general, but family has generally been fairly low key about them until recently. My sister got her feelings all hurt last year because she couldn't make it to the big extended family Christmas celebration, but that is what moving 1000 miles away will do. So, now the family has switched it to a different day so she can make it. Well, I probably can't make it that day because that is when we usually go to DH's family's stuff but that is OK with me. I am very flexible. But, now the rest of the family thinks I should change things. So, I just had to be firm and say sorry we probably won't be able to attend this year.

Then last week DHs mother calls to say they may be doing Christmas at the beach and we are expected to attend. UGH WHAT??? I expected DH to say no way, but this is the biggest guilt trip ever because his mother is very ill with liver cancer right now. So, we might end up giving in, because "what if its the last Christmas?" I told DH there would be no last Christmas next year if there is some crazy scheme then. Christmas = DHs family drunken mess. Beach = DHs family drunken mess. This already sounds like a disaster in the making. I am really hoping they don't go through with the planning, which is quite possibly likely.

Packratona!

10-27-11, 6:12pm

frugalone

11-1-11, 11:59pm

lhamo

11-2-11, 4:24am

[SLAP!]

You want me to tell them? Cause I'd love to write something like this:

Dear LIB's family,

In case you hadn't noticed, LIB and her DH are kind of stressed out due to the fact that they don't have any income and have just about run through their savings. They'd love to spend the holidays with you, but are feeling even MORE stressed out because they know that you and your kids have some really oddly placed priorities and a sense of entitlement to gifts and extravagant spending that just doesn't fit their current reality. I am writing to ask you to be a real family and show some support and understanding. There will be no gifts from LIB and her DH this year. Not because they don't love you, but because they do and they want to have a real relationship with you that is based on mutual understanding and support in times of need, not what material goods might go back and forth between you. If you can deal with that graciously and make them feel welcome and supported, they would be happy to make the effort to spend time with you. If not then it is probably best if you don't plan any family activities during the holidays.

Wishing you a season full of the real meaning of Christmas,

LIB's friend

iris lily

11-2-11, 9:08am

That's a nice one, lhamo!

frugalone

11-2-11, 1:49pm

lhamo, thank you. You kind of made me cry here, but it's a good kind of crying.

Thanks, everybody. I need to stay strong.

frugalone

11-4-11, 2:40pm

Well, I did it. Or part of it. My sister asked if we wanted to pick names for gift-giving this weekend, and I told her we were opting out of exchanging gifts this year. She was cool with it. I'm sure my brother will be, too.

Whew!

Valley

11-4-11, 5:10pm

I think that sometimes we worry so much about others' reactions, that we don't even give people a chance to surprise us! My husband and I have cut down greatly in our gift giving, and everyone has handled it very well. If they have negative feelings about it, they have had enough tact to not let us know. My sister sent us an email on Monday telling us that she is opting out of any gift giving this year. We understand and appreciate her honesty about their financial situation. All of us need to remember the true meaning of the holiday, and hopefully not get caught up in the expectations of others!

jania

11-5-11, 10:06am

ladyinblack1964, Congratulations on letting your wishes be known. I know it was hard for you and am happy to hear there was no big negative reaction from your sister. Maybe this will be the beginning of some new traditions for you, and your family if they like, that will allow you to enjoy the holidays.

frugalone

11-7-11, 1:10am

I e-mailed my brother yesterday, and his wife, and she replied that they completely understand. She said, "We're not just family, we are friends, too." She thanked me for letting her know what our situation was.

I am so relieved. Again, thank you all for your support. It means a great deal to me.

lhamo

11-7-11, 5:12am

Yay! Hope this is the beginning of a new type of relationship between you, and that it brings you all closer together.

lhamo

jennipurrr

11-10-11, 12:37pm

That is so wonderful to hear!

frugalone

11-10-11, 1:29pm

My mom offered to give me money toward Thanksgiving desserts yesterday (other than the ones I will make myself) and I told her I felt there was far too much left over in other years, and it's best that we start cutting back/down. She agreed with me!

reader99

11-11-11, 8:17pm

You know, I'm finding I am actually frightened to tell my family I don't want to exchange gifts. As if I should just keep putting on this big happy face like "everything is just fine" when it isn't. I'm down to my last $1,000, I may have to cash in my retirement and I'm on food stamps. And I'm afraid of my family. Sheesh. Someone slap me in the head.

I'm in a similar situation financially, and I;ve noticed that it's mainly in conncection with relatives that I feel a bit embarrassed about it. Some deep pshycological whatnot, no doubt. But I can't let it change what I actually do. I'm acknowledging to myself that I feel how I feel, and then let the front of my mind make rational decisions.

frugalone

11-13-11, 4:52pm

reader99, in my situation, I think it has something to do with being the grandchild of immigrants. As if there is something wrong with me because I didn't do well enough in the "land paved with streets of gold". When I was growing up, my parents always acted as though we were better than everyone else, and they looked down on my DH because he didn't have a "good job" and was actually in show business at the time (alas, the business failed). It wasn't till I took a college course on immigration in America that I realized this might be a big act to cover up their insecurity at being unwelcome in the U.S.

Also my sister is kind of a yuppie (if anyone uses that term anymore), my uncle has declared bankruptcy (which is a big secret as well as a mystery, because one cannot tell one iota of difference in lifestyle) and I could go on but there are plenty of family reasons why I feel a bit embarrassed.

iris lily

11-13-11, 6:01pm

... and I could go on but there are plenty of family reasons why I feel a bit embarrassed.

I can see that, and it's always easier to work from a position of strength. So, it's too bad that we don't stop the silly gift giving now when we (the collective we) have money so that it's not so agonizingly embarrassing when we don't have money to play the gifting game.

Maybe your situation will inspire someone to stop the madness now even though they can, theoretically, afford it.

frugalone

11-29-11, 8:41pm

I have an update on this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions:

I guess I didn't make myself quite clear to my family. Because THEY ARE GOING AHEAD AND EXCHANGING GIFTS WITHOUT US.

Now, I don't know if this means 1) We get to sit there on Xmas like Tiny Tim and watch while they exchange right in front of us; 2) They will take pity on us and give us gifts anyway; or 3) That they have not told the children in the family that they won't be getting gifts from us.

My mom, at least, asked me and DH what we wanted, and when I told her we were opting out, she said, "I treat all my kids the same. I don't expect a gift from you, but I'd still like to buy you something." OK, that's cool.

I guess I didn't make myself clear: that I thought we should ALL stop exchanging gifts. Because my brother thinks everyone else should just "go ahead." Personally, I think it's selfish. Then again, perhaps *I* am selfish if I expect everyone else to do the same as I.

My DH says, "Surely you don't think so poorly of your family that you expect them to sit there and open gifts and ignore us." Yeah, I do.
Second, I don't WANT pity or charity. It's embarrassing enough that we're on food stamps and out of money. And I would have suggested putting the kabosh on the gift-giving even if I were working this year.

Thoughts?

MODS: Feel free to tell me to start another thread here.
Another thing that may deserve its own thread is that we are considering ot even going to my sister's for dinner. The last two years were disastrous, at least to me, emotionally. And Thanksgiving wasn't that great. For some reason, I get very, very wound up and upset the day or so before a holiday. Esp. if we are supposed to bring food items with us. I don't cook. My husband does but he is a Master Procrastinator and just being near the kitchen is upsetting because he'll be up all freaking night cooking because he's never prepared. Maybe we are procrastinating because we don't want to go? Prob'ly...

frugalone

11-29-11, 8:52pm

A quick edit: I wonder if anyone in my family is listening to me. Just got this e-mail from my mother. Now I realize she is 74 and her memory is slipping, but this badly?

"Also I got another look at Jillian's {my 15 year old niece} wish list. I believe you asked about it?
The items are from amazon and Victoria's Secret. If you call I could explain them, but if you're looking for a gift card, she mentioned American Eagle or Victoria's secret."

Just e-mailed my DSis and she says it's fine that we're not giving to the kids. Well, that's a relief...

Valley

11-29-11, 8:54pm

I think that sometimes even when you want to not exchange gifts that there will still be some people who want to buy for you. You can just accept it in the true spirit of Christmas. Are you saying that you expect everyone else to not exchange gifts with each other because of your personal situation? I think that might be a little unfair or unrealistic on your part. I do understand you situation, because I had a year when I was unable to exchange presents. I'll never forget my sister telling me that she didn't give a present because she wanted something in return...rather she wanted to give me a present because she loved me! I have always remembered that...circumstances change throughtout our lives...family stays forever! You are in my prayers!

frugalone

11-29-11, 9:10pm

flowerseverywhere

11-29-11, 10:32pm

Hi, Valley: You know, I guess I had this strange notion that people would actually welcome the break from the gift-giving. Esp my brother and his wife. Ever since they had their son, money has been an issue and they almost split up over credit card bills, I am told.

But I guess there's no accounting for what people will do.

Thank you for your prayers. I have many people praying for me, hopefully something will change!

you can change your pants but you can't change your genes.

in other words, the only one you have the power to change is yourself. Family being dysfunctional runs for generations. Some people actually thrive on chaos and craziness. Be strong. figure out what you really want.

treehugger

11-30-11, 11:59am

I have an update on this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions:

I guess I didn't make myself quite clear to my family. Because THEY ARE GOING AHEAD AND EXCHANGING GIFTS WITHOUT US.

This is exactly what the various parts of our families do, even though my DH and I opted out of gift exchanges years ago. It's fine, and it would never have occurred to me to to expect anything else. I don't care to tell others how to celebrate their holidays; to me, that would be as bad as them insisting we continue to exchange gifts.

Please do yourself a really big favor and try to remember that you can't change other people. Period. You can only change your own actions and your reactions to other people.

I also need to note that you are not alone in complaining about the act of gift exchanging, when there are really so many other, deeper issues at work here. I see this a lot here and in other forums. Family dynamics are so complicated that it's rarely ever really only about not wanting to buy a sweater for Aunt Mildred. So, having said all of that, if you really feel, for your inner peace, that you need to skip going to family gathering entirely this year, then do so. But try to accept responsibility for that decision and not blame it on your brother still giving gifts.

Best wishes to you for a peaceful December.

Kara

lhamo

11-30-11, 3:54pm

oknow, the best gift you can probably give those kids is to let them know that you love them and will always be there to support them, but you also need to take care of yourselves and your financial situation at the moment means you cannot afford to buy people presents. You will be showing them a different model for how to deal with finances and family ties, and they probably sorely need that. In 20 years when they are drowning in debt and looking for a way out, you may be the people they come to for advice. It won't be their parents, because they clearly are clueless.

But if you feel it is too stressful to go, then I would stay home. Or shorten the visit -- just come for the meal and let them know they can do the gift giving before you get there and no need to wait.

lhamo

iris lily

11-30-11, 9:32pm

kara, brilliant answer. You hit every point.

frugalone

12-1-11, 1:08am

All great suggestions.
My sister says the kids always want to know if we're going to be there. I find that somewhat funny since my nephew (11) almost never speaks to either me or my husband.
I just wish things didn't FEEL like they were so complicated.

I feel guilty about not wanting to go, about wanting to just stay home that day. I have been trying for years to make peace with this holiday, and it has not been working. I guess I just need to try harder.

thanks, everybody.

frugalone

12-24-11, 4:27pm

Well, I thought I had better update everyone on this, being that it's Xmas Eve. (Tried to log on here the other day, and got a weird message saying the server didn't exist, or something). Anyhow...

I have made just about every error I could make here. I did tell my DH numerous times I did not want to attend dinner with my family, but I guess I didn't actually "seal the deal" with him before I told them we weren't coming. So now he's upset that I "left him out of the decision." My mother says it's OK that we're not coming, but I don't believe her. My sister wants us to come for dessert (I'm a diabetic, by the way). Also, since my "Family Feud" post in the Families and Relationships forum, my sister and I had an incident that occurred that was very upsetting. I won't go into it here--it's not relevant insofar as it's not holiday related, but it has changed my feelings toward her.

I've been losing it all week; screaming at my husband at the drop of a hat; getting angry at just about anyone who says anything to me. Now my husband and I are barely speaking (not because of Xmas, specifically--that's just one of the reasons).

I keep feeling like I'm doing something "wrong" by not going to my sister's. But to recap, I don't feel like I have anything in common with them, I just saw them at Thanksgiving, I don't feel like seeing anyone or speaking to anyone. I can't remember being this angry/depressed in ages.

Once again, I tried to "make peace with the season." I tried keeping a holiday journal of things I actually LIKE about the holidays. believe it or not, there are a few things...it just didn't work. My personal issues keep getting in the way.

SiouzQ.

12-24-11, 6:41pm

(((LIB))) I just wanted you to know I've read all of your updates today and feel very concerned for you. Please know that we are all holding you in our hearts and praying that things get better, one moment at a time. Sometimes that is the only way to do it. I don't know if you meditate, but try to get yourself in a physical state of peace by doing deep nasal breathing, filling your lungs fully and slowing letting the air escape, and try to let go of all the negative thoughts until you feel peace wash through you. Do it again and again if bad thoughts creep back. And please don't hesitate to call a help line again; maybe you will get somebody different that can help you better.
Please post for the next few days so we know that you are all right.

Lainey

12-25-11, 6:03pm

frugalone

12-25-11, 9:18pm

I'm still here...despite arguments, disagreements, etc.

This has been one rotten Christmas, I gotta tell you. Not one person in my family called us today on the phone to see if we were OK, or even to say Merry Christmas. I spent the day in bed. At least my husband and I are speaking to each other, but who knows how long before I lose my temper again? I can't keep a lid on it lately.

I don't have much hope that 2012 will be any better...but what choice do I have but to keep plodding on?

Again, I thank you all for listening to me and for being there.

P.S.
I want to take a poll here: Do you think it's "fair" to the niece and nephews, ages 15, 11, and 7, not to give them gifts? DH said it wasn't quite fair--after all, how could the 7 year old understand what "aunt and uncle have no jobs" and "money comes from jobs" mean. I wanted to clunk him over the head on that one. IMHO, it's nephew's PARENTS who need to talk to the kid about what money means--not ME. What, I'm obliged to give gifts I cannot afford because the kid doesn't understand economics?!

sweetana3

12-26-11, 6:33am

You are never obligated to give gifts to anyone at any time. "Fair" does not enter into it at all. Otherwise, what you are transferring is a payment (for something), a demand, an expectation, etc. but not a gift. I am sure the kids would not even miss one unless the adults told them about it and then the problem is with the adults. Kids wont remember in the mass of presents they have to open.

Our families do not celebrate together since we all live a thousand or more miles away. None of mine communicate which is fine and we call mom since this is her first year alone. Not all families have the "perfect" Christmas picture in their albums.

ApatheticNoMore

12-26-11, 2:15pm

I keep feeling like I'm doing something "wrong" by not going to my sister's. But to recap, I don't feel like I have anything in common with them, I just saw them at Thanksgiving, I don't feel like seeing anyone or speaking to anyone. I can't remember being this angry/depressed in ages.

Once again, I tried to "make peace with the season." I tried keeping a holiday journal of things I actually LIKE about the holidays. believe it or not, there are a few things...it just didn't work. My personal issues keep getting in the way.

It is JUST A DAY. Christmas is. It may have religious significance, but that's not where the issues lie here. It's all about family expectations and so on - and for that IT IS JUST A DAY!!! Do something you enjoy.

frugalone

12-26-11, 8:37pm

Thank you. Better luck next year, as they say, I suppose. I will definitely have a PLAN for next year--even if it involves renting a cabin in the boonies.

BTW, My sister did get in touch.

On my Facebook wall, she wrote "Well??"

Nice. Real nice.

And my Pay Pal account got hacked today. I don't know if I ever mentioned at the start of this thread that every year for about the past 20 years, something really rotten has happened to me/us at Xmastime. Seriously, it's like voodoo or something! My dog died one year, my uncle died one year, we were in a car accident one year--all kinds of fun stuff. And now my Pay Pal account is hacked. (shrugs and rolls eyeballs)