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Mighty Frugal
10-15-11, 10:33pm
So, one of my colleagues is going a little crazy. He showed me this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA
and another one with Max Keiser but I don't have that link.

He gets from this that the world is headed to disaster. He believes we are going to be in a depression by next year. He also believes that banks will fail (?) so plans on taking out most of his money and essentially burying it in his backyard. He also plans on having a year's supply of food for a year for his family.

He kept stressing to me to be prepared. To have funds available. How another trader was saying 'this year parents will wonder what toy to buy their kids, next year they'll be thrilled to buy them food'.

I told him I'd ask you folks. I told him how smart you all are (smarter than a barrel of really smart monkeys I said) and how on top of these economic issues you all are.

So...is now the time to panic? In Canada the gov't protects each person up to 100k in banks, but he says even if they will pay us back they can't just hand everyone up to 100k-that would devalue our dollar...we may not get it for months

My family and I are debt free, tidy savings but it's in the bank (not buried under the oak tree out back!!) and a small supply of food and toiletries

Are you guys stocking up on cash, gold, food, and water? Is the economic end near?

ApatheticNoMore
10-15-11, 11:12pm
He also believes that banks will fail (?) so plans on taking out most of his money and essentially burying it in his backyard.

Literally? How can this even begin to make sense or to work? Gold in a safe inside - well maybe. Cash in the backyard :laff: I mean so the economic situation deteriorates enough how many people are there going to be trying to steal cash buried in the #@$# backyard?!?


Are you guys stocking up on cash, gold, food, and water? Is the economic end near?

I'd focus on building up some community then, so there is some "infrastructure" if you will, of people helping and caring about each other if it comes to that.

Basically it's the same old doomer predictions (of the fast crash rather than the long emergency type). And whether they will ever come to pass I really have no idea. But honestly how much wealth in the form of cash, gold or what have you do you really feel safe keeping in your residence anyway? Some spending cash for an emergency, sure that's just transactional cash though and not some huge store of wealth. Having some extra food and water if harmless sensible advice.

I was kind of expecting a thread on pulling your money out of the evil big banks and putting it in a credit union from the title :)

Mighty Frugal
10-15-11, 11:23pm
Literally? How can this even begin to make sense or to work? Gold in a safe inside - well maybe. Cash in the backyard :laff: I mean so the economic situation deteriorates enough how many people are there going to be trying to steal cash buried in the #@$# backyard?!?



I'd focus on building up some community then, so there is some "infrastructure" if you will, of people helping and caring about each other if it comes to that.

Basically it's the same old doomer predictions (of the fast crash rather than the long emergency type). And whether they will ever come to pass I really have no idea. But honestly how much wealth in the form of cash, gold or what have you do you really feel safe keeping in your residence anyway? Some spending cash for an emergency, sure that's just transactional cash though and not some huge store of wealth. Having some extra food and water if harmless sensible advice.

I was kind of expecting a thread on pulling your money out of the evil big banks and putting it in a credit union from the title :)

No, not literally buried in his backyard...but close at hand and not in a bank!

I've always been pretty even keeled when it came to apoplectic predictions, but he was so insistent-kept saying he hopes he's wrong but is trolling the net finding all these links. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were ...but feel free to move your cash to a credit union:)

freein05
10-15-11, 11:59pm
What good will cash do you if the economy fails totally. Who would want it. Gold is just to heavy to carry around. Dooms day people have been making such predictions all the time. Some minister predicted the world would end in May of this year and when it didn't he changed his prediction to sometime in October of this year. If true money buried in your back yard will do you no good.

Rogar
10-16-11, 12:03am
One of my friends heard an interview Michael Lewis recently and whatever Michael said spooked my friend. You might recall that Michael Lewis predicted our financial crisis and not only made a fortune from it, but also wrote a few best sellers about it. He said Michael is predicting Greece will default on their debt and cause huge problems with the European Central Bank. It didn't sound quite as dire as this guy, but very serious.

Indeed, there is always a pack of many doomsdayers out there, but one day they might not be just crying wolf.

redfox
10-16-11, 12:57am
Panic is never a helpful place from which to make decisions. I always question the logic of any claim made that resembles the sky is falling.

Yossarian
10-16-11, 2:01am
If that is what he thinks he should be stocking up on ammunition, not hoarding paper currency.

Marianne
10-16-11, 7:42am
I don't buy into the gloom and doom philosophy, but the internet proves that there are plenty that do. I do believe in having the knowledge, acquiring skills and information as a hedge against inflation and so you can be somewhat prepared for a disaster.

Having a years worth of food isn't too extreme in my book. The Mormons have preached having a two year supply for decades. I stock up before winter since getting snowed in here for days isn't unusual. A few years ago we were without power for 8 days. The next time that happens, I want to be able to stay in my own home. It's just a level of self sufficiency that I want to achieve.

A few years ago, friends of ours were very concerned about SHTF. They built a coop, invested in some chickens (so they'd at least have something to eat, she said) and bought two guns. Every once in a while, they buy more ammo. Me? I planted my garden as usual. I don't believe that money will be worth anything in a true SHTF scenario and I don't worry about it. JMO.

herbgeek
10-16-11, 9:39am
We usually keep enough cash nearby to sustain us for a month or so (like if the power grid is affected, and we can't get to an ATM or the gas pumps are cash only). But if things are any worse than that, having paper currency won't really help us, so there's no point. I have some canned goods in the basement, but that's good enough for a snow storm not a major financial collapse.

Blackdog Lin
10-16-11, 9:29pm
Oh man, I've been fretting for 24 hours on whether to post on this thread or not. But I got my tinfoil hat out of the closet, dusted it off, and decided that since you asked an honest question, you deserve honest opinions, even though I'm sure I'm in a minority on here, and fear that I will lose any credibility I may have on this forum.

(1) yeah, I believe we are headed toward a serious financial meltdown. When? Who knows. Tomorrow, next month, 3 years from now. But I think it's coming. I'd bet money it's coming. (Actually, I HAVE bet money it's coming, in many various ways.)
(2) I think that when the history books of the future are written, they will talk about what started in 2008 - the Greater Depression, the Second Great Depression, GD V2.0, whatever they decide to call it. I think it's already started, we're living in it, and because we're living in it we can't see it. Did the people in 1929-1930-1931 CALL it "the Great
Depression"? Probably not, they were just trying to cope with the times as events unfolded. As we are now.
(3) (disclaimer: I am a layman in financials. I have a very simple understanding of the very very very macro picture. As such, I will probably sound like an idiot with this paragraph.) There is not enough money in the world to offset all the debt. The debts of both banking and countries are too huge. The (big) banks are all bankrupt, as are the countries, claiming asset valuations that do not in any way reflect what they really have. Both are kicking-the-can into the future, and there is no way this is sustainable in the long run. The powers-that-be print money (lately called "recapitalization", earlier it was "TARP") which flirts with hyperinflation (though it may end up being super-deflation - I can't call it, being a financial ninny, but I see enough to know it's gonna hurt me and my family either way). And they keep papering-over every financial crisis that comes up.
(4) But I think (no, I'm a true believer: I BELIEVE) that one day their papering-over won't work, and the markets will call the bluff, and the S is indeed gonna HTF.
(5) I'm a prepper. Sorry 'bout that.

So, have I taken all my money out of my bank? No. I'm hedging my bets, and living my life, and enjoying same. But have I positioned our financials (and lifestyle, and stockpiling) toward a financial meltdown? You betcha. I read too much, I see too much, and have no intention of being one of the "sheeple".

What exactly I've done to position our situation toward what I believe is coming.....is fodder toward another thread.

YMMV.

ApatheticNoMore
10-16-11, 10:42pm
I read too much, I see too much, and have no intention of being one of the "sheeple".

Man I hate that phrase "sheeple". The assumption is people don't know things are messed up. But then why is protest breaking out all over America, all over the world? People know things are messed up on a very fundamental level. But not everyone goes around pulling all their money out of financial institutions and planning to guard it with a gun (I support the right to do so of course :), but find the thought a dead-end).

redfox
10-17-11, 1:23am
Thanks, Apathetic. I hate that phrase too, for the same reason. Plus, I used to raise sheep, and they are smart. They think as a flock. Something we might consider learning about!

Marianne
10-17-11, 8:52am
Blackdog, I'm glad you posted. Obviously you have seen enough to send you on your current path and these forums are the place for diverse lines of thought.

I don't consider myself a 'prepper' in comparison to others, but our friends would label me as one. During our 8 days without power experience, I thought 'what if this was a permanent thing'. That changed a lot of my views.

But paper money? Even gold or whatever? In a SHTF scenario, I wouldn't part with a bit of food or anything for it. In my view, it'd be worthless. For now, I'll leave my money where it's at, pay my bills and continue to invest in myself (knowledge, skills, solar, herbalism, etc.)

Again, JMO.

Mighty Frugal
10-17-11, 5:17pm
Blackdog, thanks for posting. I'd love to read how you are preparing...perhaps start a new thread? Although I am not a 'doom and gloom' seeker, I pretty much think everything will continue as it does..with a few hiccups here and there but a world of Mad Max-no way..and if it did get to that I hope I am among the dead.

Having said that, I like to be aware of what can happen. And providing it isn't cataclysmic and anarchy reigns and neighbours fight with neighbours for water, then I'm willing to play! Sooooo

what to do to be prepared?

ApatheticNoMore
10-17-11, 5:40pm
but a world of Mad Max-no way..and if it did get to that I hope I am among the dead.

+ 1

ctg492
10-17-11, 6:41pm
Mighty Frugal,
My 83 year old Mother who is not rich but has CDs and such and does not hear well. Called her broker in a tizzy, as she always does after reading gloom and doom articles. Mom was upset about the interest rates come december and after pestering one too many times, the broker said something along the line of "well your money will be worth no more in a CD then under your mattress". Mom took this as the truth and called me crying. Our Money will not be worth anything, you might as well put it under your mattress. IT won't be worth the paper it is printed on. I tried to clam her, with not much luck.
So I can understand how if you read and watch gloom and doom, you become it.

Blackdog Lin
10-17-11, 9:25pm
Marianne and Mighty Frugal - oh my goodness, thank you for posting. I was SO scared of "putting myself out there" on this forum/topic. I very much appreciate that you can find yourselves open to my "crazy/minority" opinion. But really, when you think about it, being a prepper very much fits into our SL philosophies, why we are on here with this group. Making do with less, doing for ourselves, helping Planet Earth, saving money, living simpler but happier lives without all the "glitz": all are common to both a prepper and a SL lifestyle.

ctg492 - yeah, all of my internet reading about what I see/think is coming does inform all my decisions these days (I feel for your mother.) I worry about that: do I just read the bad news and never see the good? I don't think so - I think the true world financial news is so underreported that I'm just gleaning the truth from the chaff - but I could be wrong. I struggle with this, but not so much that I'm unable to enjoy today. I enjoyed today, and will try to find some joy in tomorrow too.

I look at the prepper thing as just another form of insurance. I have car insurance, I have homeowners insurance, I have nursing home insurance, I have diversified investments as a form of insurance. Why not try to insure our household against what I truly believe is coming, based on all my research, in case of:

(1) a true and total dollar meltdown. Trucks stop moving, ATMs stop working, zombies in the streets (sorry, it's a prepper joke). So, I've tried to insulate us against this worst-case scenerio. I give this a 30% chance of happening.
(2) Or, a gradual decline toward 3rd world status. Just this week, I couldn't find green onions in my grocery store. I live in a small town, but our grocery store is a very good one, and I was just blown away that there were no green onions. I am a spoiled American, and I had a hard time getting my head around the fact that a simple fresh product that I needed - and expected to be available - wasn't available. With my prepper mindset, I then thought "this is one of the signs that everyone overlooks - items that we (need? want?) aren't necessarily gonna be available." It's a slow and insidious process. Think about it: have you gone to Wal-Mart or your local grocery or hardware store or wherever lately and had something on your list that just wasn't there?

A raise of hands here, now that I'm thinking about it: who has gone to a store of any kind lately and not been able to find something on your list? I'll bet there was something. It's a sign of our times, and it's happening so slowly that we don't notice it.

I'm giving #2 a 60% chance of happening.

Well, enough prepper rambling. If anyone here were seriously interested, I'd be happy to join into a preparations thread.....

puglogic
10-17-11, 11:31pm
Blackdog Lin, I agree with you in so many areas. I don't call myself a prepper, more like I think of myself as a "doomer lite" -- hoping for the best, preparing for the worst, and continuing to enjoy life as I go along. As you've said, there is simply too much mounting evidence that we're heading for something really ugly. Anyone who isn't paying attention to that --- and we all know people outside this community who are too caught up in their lifestyle and are not paying attention --- deserves the label "sheeple" imho.

We:
Build ties within the community, especially around services and food
Keep a tidy amount of spare food in the form of legumes, rice, home-canned stuff, oats, grains, etc.
Live (now) in a place where we can get to civilization on foot easily if gasoline became unaffordable
Live (now) still far enough away from urban areas that if the meltdown I'm expecting occurs, I'll be far from the chaos that's going to fall onto urban dwellers
Grow a mean garden (we know how to grow most of what we need)
Keep our money diversified
Keep our lives simple
Know how to operate a firearm. Well.

Take our money out of the bank? No, not yet. But we are being very, very cautious. Life's still good, we are still dancing, but keeping an eye on the door at the same time.

Jemima
10-18-11, 1:13am
Marianne and Mighty Frugal - oh my goodness, thank you for posting. I was SO scared of "putting myself out there" on this forum/topic. I very much appreciate that you can find yourselves open to my "crazy/minority" opinion.

I've never heard the term "prepper" before, but you can count me in. There are some very level heads discussing a bank holiday and eventually - maybe before the end of the year - a stock market crash similar to that of 2008. If you don't already read Chris Martenson's blog, here's a link: http://www.chrismartenson.com/. I followed Chris for about a year and decided it was worth the money to become a paying subscriber about six months ago. I've never regretted it. I believe you can still watch "The Crash Course" online for free and there's also a free but limited membership available. He advises what many of us have either learned for ourselves or elsewhere: keep enough cash on hand for three month's living expenses in the event of a bank failure; store some food ahead (BTW, this is a good inflation hedge as well as a safety cushion should one become unemployed); become as self-sufficient as possible; keep physically and emotionally fit; and do what you can to make the place where you live become a community.

I share your views about the cities as well. One of my favorite gloom-and-doomers, James Howard Kunstler (http://www.kunstler.com/index.php), author of The Long Emergency, believes the cities are the place to be, but this is a point where our views diverge. Nobody could pay me enough to go live in a luxury condo in Center City Philadelphia (starting at $800,000 for a one-bedroom) with one of the worst slums in our country only a mile or so away. Being isolated out in the sticks doesn't seem like a good idea either, so I'm glad to be in a far-flung suburb of the city where there are still some small farms and neighbors who look out for one another.

If that's being a nutcase, well, I've been called worse. :~) :~) :~)

Polliwog
10-18-11, 2:53am
I have NEVER been a "gloom and doom" person - until this year. I have no confidence in our government and I believe we are headed for some very difficult times ahead. I watch Free Speech TV and Link TV and have seen some wonderful documentaries, etc. One that I would seriously recommend (I just bought it from Amazon) is "Capitalism Hits the Fan" by Richard Wolff.

Zoebird
10-18-11, 3:01am
i truly believe that we are headed for a massive financial/governmental shift over the coming years.

i'm not sure what it's going to look like or what's going to happen, but i do my best to make community connections and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

on the one hand, i pretend that everything is going to keep going as it is now, and that everything will be dandy and not to worry about it. I keep developing my business, growing it, and going from there.

but, who knows what will happen when things start to collapse? I don't. I don't think it's going to be an ammo-necessary disaster, and people will get by.

my family lived in oklahoma when it was "the dust bowl" and moved west to california and lived in camps during the depression. i have photos of my great grandmother and her husband during that era, and my grandmother as an infant in those photos. People suffered, but they managed to get through it too. I don't know. somehow it doesn't scare me.

i guess it doesn't scare me because they did everything they could to prepare -- they were farmers, and they were farming, and the weather just wasn't with them, you know? and that was that. they gathered up what they had and headed for somewhere else in the hopes that it would all come together.

when she died, my great grandmother left about 1.5 million to her kids when she passed. And my grandmother was always frugal -- and both she and my grandfather were workers (factory, secretarial), and my grandmother is worth a cool 4 mil right now. you know, assuming nothing collapses.

my parents aren't worth that much, to be honest, as it seems the economic decline business started to happen when my parents came of working age. they have some savings and retirement, but no where near what my great grandmother and grandmother had at the same age (dad's 65).

and we, well, we are no where near where are parents were at our age, and this is true of most of my friends. so as far as we can tell, this downward trend has been long-in-coming. my grandmother and my parent's generation tell us that we aren't spending our money right, or we aren't frugal enough, or whatever such that we don't have the money they do. maybe that's true.

but my grandmother pointed out, laughingly, that we do things that her mother did "back at the end of the depression and during the war!" and admonishes that we are "too frugal." but if we weren't, then ends wouldn't meet around here.

So, if it "collapses" -- i'll just keep moving forward and muddling through and something will rise up and change and -- i believe -- there will be improvement.

it's basically all that i have. could die in an earthquake tomorrow, you know? never know what's what so no need to fret about it. and you can't prepare for what you don't know about anyway. that is, what shape it will take. i can prepare for earthquakes and what not (following local gov't guidelines) but entire social melt-down? probably not really anything I can really prepare for.

Maxamillion
10-18-11, 9:02am
I'm a prepper and have been for the last four or five years. I just don't have much money to buy stuff and end up having to dip into what preps I do have alarmingly often. I try learning what I can, since at least reading stuff is free. I've looked at wildflower guides trying to identify plants around here and have studied wild edible plant guides. I've got a book on basic soap-making and have read about several different ways of preserving food and have a couple of books on general self-sufficiency. Though I'll admit, I don't know how useful it'd be for me, since without my meds, I'll probably be a goner. But it's better than not doing anything, and like I said, the preps have come in useful at times.

Mighty Frugal
10-18-11, 1:31pm
Wonderful information all! Thank you! I plan on stocking some food and toiletries. It can't hurt and I will buy things we will eat (no SPAM) and use. Although I live in an urban area, our small community is quite close and I hope we would help each other. Or if it came to it, we could always drive about 45 minutes north to my parents place.They have a large garden, fruit trees, wood stove, wood fireplace, guns (eek), chickens, rabbits, and a wood stove outside. They have a large house and we could all stay there together.

I am assuming 'if' the worse happens there will be some warning..or probably just a general decline....here's hoping they can all smarten up and we can continue as we always have!

Zoebird
10-18-11, 10:50pm
lots of folks in NZ are all about community gardens, and people keep urban chickens. we are looking at the possibility of raising guinea - pig and or quail as an alternative food source as well. rabbits are another good idea, but shouldn't be the only meat you eat (not that it would be), and they breed and age up quickly enough to cull. and, we can fish and forage for seafood -- not our favorites, but we'll eat when we are hungry. :)

Stacy
10-19-11, 11:19pm
A raise of hands here, now that I'm thinking about it: who has gone to a store of any kind lately and not been able to find something on your list? I'll bet there was something. It's a sign of our times, and it's happening so slowly that we don't notice it.

OMG... Last month, I couldn't find zucchini at any store. And this was the height of zucchini season! Nobody was giving it away at work. Normally, I can count on throwing zucchini into all kinds of meals during August and September. That was just strange.

But that was a reminder of what has become very important to me lately: Learning how to grow and prepare my own food to make me and my family less dependent on large farms and supermarkets for our basic needs. I've been trying to become a more productive gardener by trying a variety of techniques. I'll be starting up a hydroponic garden in my house pretty soon, and I have a raised-bed garden ready to go for next spring. If I could, I'd raise chickens and bees, but that will have to wait until we're not living in a duplex in town. Right now, I'm poring through the books.

I feel very lucky that we had to be frugal when I was a kid. That's a far cry from how I used to feel!

Jemima
10-20-11, 12:28am
OMG... Last month, I couldn't find zucchini at any store. And this was the height of zucchini season! Nobody was giving it away at work. Normally, I can count on throwing zucchini into all kinds of meals during August and September. That was just strange.



Uh, well, you generally don't find a bumper crop of zucchini in September. I'm usually picking them like crazy in July and August, although this year the plants got squash borers and by the time I figured it out and surgically removed the borers, it was mid-August and the plants only produced a few squash. It was also a bad year for most things in the nightshade family - peppers, eggplant, and tomatoes. I have no idea why.

Stacy
10-20-11, 1:36pm
Uh, well, you generally don't find a bumper crop of zucchini in September.

Did I mention I live in Wisconsin? We can usually count on lots of zucchini in early September.

Mighty Frugal
10-20-11, 1:45pm
Blackdog, I forgot to mention that last week our grocery store didn't have milk. Said they didn't have a shipment for two days-dh had to go to another one to get some. AND the wooden stir sticks (I use them for cake pops and other kiddie treats-not to stir coffee)I normally pick up from another store-she said they didn't get those in the last 3 shipments.

So, yes, there have been a few things and I can honestly say I've never not been able to get milk at the grocery store

Blackdog Lin
10-20-11, 10:04pm
I'm appreciating the conversation - never thought I would find like-minded souls on here. :) I'm wondering and worrying that the financial meltdown I see coming is becoming a self-fulfulling prophecy, as it were. So many of us are EXPECTING it.....

So, this is the financial thread. So let's see how we're all coping with potential financial troubles. For myself:

(1) I have 3 months worth of bill-paying cash stashed away. Yeah, maybe dollars are gonna go to worthless, but it probably wouldn't happen overnight, and in the case of a bank holiday/ATM closures, I could still pay the utilities for awhile.
(2) I'm out of the stock market, no mutual funds, I only hold 3 small blocks of blue-chip stocks, which are for my non-existent grandchildren. My retirement holdings are in IRAs held in highly-rated local banks (RESEARCH your bank - I can't stress this enough!), earning very minimal interest, but at least I know (probably) that I won't lose principal. Because I'm not a financial guru, I can only focus in these times on not losing principal - forget earnings. Heck, I think the stock market is gonna crash next week, or the week after that - my risk threshold is very low these days.
(3) Precious metals. My Gosh, this is a crapshoot, I know I'm right, but what if I'm wrong? I can't afford gold, so am diversifying investing into silver. I'm buying Silver Eagles, and have some "junk silver" too. Junk silver is a prepper item to be able to purchase necessities in a "money-down" situation (the theory is that silver, gold, and other precious metals, will always have a value, that people will always recognize. Even in a SHTF scenerio.) My investing in Silver Eagles is my attempt to hedge against any hyperinflation, and try to carry over our savings into any new world money situation.
(4) I will not enter into any more debt. SL'ers know this mantra, more than most. Debt is the enemy now, and will be a worse enemy in the future. I will do without. Right now is NOT the time to be entering into debt of any kind. (I will drive my 1994 ChevyAstroVan into the ground. I will NOT buy into the "have to have a decent-looking vehicle", or even "have to have a cool vehicle" mindset. I will be SENSIBLE.

redfox
10-20-11, 10:33pm
I am gleaning from your posts what a " prepper" is, and would appreciate a more detailed description. Thanks!

Maxamillion
10-20-11, 10:51pm
Prepper--someone who prepares for emergency situations...power outages, earthquakes, ice storms, losing a job, hurricanes, economic collapse, pandemics, zombie mobs, etc. (Just kidding on the zombies). I got into prepping a year or two after Hurricane Katrina. Reading the accounts of that really got me to thinking.

Edit: Here's a page that gives some good basic information. http://readynutrition.com/resources/prepping-basic-beginners-guide-why-prep_16022010/

frugal-one
10-20-11, 11:34pm
Very good information! I now have ideas how to store water. Thanks!!

flowerseverywhere
10-21-11, 12:14am
Prepper--someone who prepares for emergency situations...power outages, earthquakes, ice storms, losing a job, hurricanes, economic collapse, pandemics, zombie mobs, etc. (Just kidding on the zombies). I got into prepping a year or two after Hurricane Katrina. Reading the accounts of that really got me to thinking.

Edit: Here's a page that gives some good basic information. http://readynutrition.com/resources/prepping-basic-beginners-guide-why-prep_16022010/

There is a book I would suggest everyone read

Zeitoun about a man who was caught up in the Katrina mess, ended up in jail on a crazy charge. his account of what happened to his area when the flood hit, the starving dogs, the bodies floating around is haunting but really makes you realize what happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitoun_%28book%29

Preparedness is vitally important so that you don't get caught up in hoards of people trying to flee a hurricane for instance. I don't think anywhere in the world you are free from natural disasters of some kind. Who would have thought a hurricane would end up devastating Vermont? tornadoes, earthquakes, floods and ice storms can hit so many of us anywhere in the world.

and if you thought people who thought about preparedness were a bunch of kooks read this interesting lessons learned by the White house

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/reports/katrina-lessons-learned/chapter4.html

RosieTR
10-21-11, 12:33am
Interesting thread!
As I see it, you're probably no worse off taking some cash out of the bank than leaving it in there, given that interest rates are generally so low it wouldn't make much difference. As far as disasters go, however, here are my thoughts.
Disaster 1: Home destroyed such as house fire. Money in mattress=very bad
Disaster 2: Neighborhood/town destroyed such as hurricane. Money in mattress= useful if you got it out, very bad if you didn't. Depends on how fast disaster approached and whether you believed it and got the money out.
Disaster 3: Region destroyed such as nuclear plant blast, big hurricane, etc. Similar to disaster type 2. A hurricane gives you time to prepare. A volcano/earthquake/nuke plant going red may not.
Disaster 4: State and possibly multi-state region destroyed, such as large volcanic eruption (Yellowstone caldera). Money in mattress=likely unable to get to, possibly useless in short term, possibly useful in long term, or possibly useless even in long term depending on extent of damage.
Disaster 5: Zombie apocalypse/WWIII/Mad Max. Some contagious agent comes around that makes the 1918 flu look like a bad cold, or China vs Russia gets going with the nukes, or the economic system collapses to the point that the whole world descends into Dark Ages II. Money in general is useless. You'd at least be possibly able to laugh at the foolishness of the money or use it to start a fire or something though in the Dark Ages scenario it would probably be a situation of hyperinflation or deflation in the run-up.

As far as prepping for each of these disasters, weapons would be generally more useful the less useful money becomes. More likely IMO is descent into a new world order. Could be facism not unlike Nazi Germany, or the French or Russian Revolutions (the hyper-freaky folks at Fox News are already calling Occupy Wall Street any and all of those). How did money fare in all of those? Not well, I would guess.
Or we could a longer and deeper Depression than the "Great" Depression followed by reforms, or at least reinstatement of the parts of the Glass-Seagall act that were repealed in 1999. Could just be a brutal recession.
Since Canada has as bunch of tar oil sand that is now becoming economically viable to exploit, I'm guessing you folks won't be in as deep as some other countries that have staggering debt loads and no great way to pay it off.
If you have big deflation, keeping a ton of cash around is probably great: everything costs less tomorrow so you effectively get richer. If hyperinflation occurs, backyard cash stashes would pretty much one of the worst places to store the dough. In that case, in fact, owning a lot of property (esp with loans, which get significantly cheaper over time) or precious metals is ideal. So, which is it? Hyperinflation, deflation, or the Dark Ages II?

I do think it's not a bad thing to have some preparation because you can wind up being without electricity at any time for a few days whether due to weather or just someone's screw up at the power plant. However, I'm still eating food DH hoarded up for Y2K so there is also the Chicken Little element at play in some of these scenarios. I figure I should have enough cash to get the cars/pets/stuff we can to Colorado in the event of a disaster, and beyond that it's probably going to take guns, the water purifier, and our copy of "Naked Into the Wilderness".

Zoebird
10-21-11, 3:14am
i think prepping for yoru local natural disasters is a good idea, but pretty much beyond that isn't really that helpful -- as per Rosie's post.

if it does go mad max, then i'll go mad max, you know? or you die trying. and death is an option.

i really enjoyed that book The Road, which was essentially a non-prepped family that got royally hosed by whatever it was that happened when the kid was younger. Dad dies, kid gets lucky in the end, and that's that.

Truth be told, I dont' think it's going to go the way of The Road. I just don't. I see it more going "new jerusalem" where there is early hardship, but overall everyone does ok.

Like the great depression, too.

Anyway, in prepping for an earth quake here, I am amassing some basics, but truth is i might be at work that day, and the house covered in hillside and water when ig et back to it, and hence prep is worthless. Not that i'm not prepping, i'm just sayin.

example, friend in christ church -- as per everyone's best advice -- kept the earth quake supplies in her garden shed. Garden shed got liquifacted. or whatever that word is. Anyway, couldn't go near the shed. So the month's worth of supplies etc etc... not accessible. Another friend kept it in her loft, accessible.

RosieTR
10-22-11, 3:54am
The best tool to use to prep with is your brain. Les Stroud (of the show Survivorman) had a great episode after Katrina that was basically 3 scenarios: one, you were at home when a disaster struck and what to do, two you were at a "typical" office when disaster struck and three you were in your car when a disaster struck. Now, you can have some preparations in each locale. Probably you're not going to have 5 gallons of water in your office drawer, but many offices have big water containers for example, and if you know how to safely break the case to the vending machine you are set for a little while with those basics. Point is, you'd probably have to think about it. For example, I have access to bio labs and some of the resources there include lab coats: warmth, bedding or shelter material, first aid material/slings/etc; large volumes of water and saline solution: hydration, first aid; bacterial and cell culture media: edibles. Do I want to eat agar and yeast extract? No. Is it edible if the SHTF? Yep. The point is not what I would specifically be eating if I got stuck at work in a disaster. The point is thinking about what someone could use as a resource and how if SHTF bigtime.

Zoebird
10-22-11, 4:36am
right, which is also why making community connections, learning to forage, and related things are very important for long-term success in such situations, not just how to get through the first few days/weeks.

Spartana
10-22-11, 8:14pm
Prepper--someone who prepares for emergency situations...power outages, earthquakes, ice storms, losing a job, hurricanes, economic collapse, pandemics, zombie mobs, etc. (Just kidding on the zombies). I got into prepping a year or two after Hurricane Katrina. Reading the accounts of that really got me to thinking.

Edit: Here's a page that gives some good basic information. http://readynutrition.com/resources/prepping-basic-beginners-guide-why-prep_16022010/

And we use to just call 'em "survivalist" - usually "Whacko Survivalists" - of which I am a proud member :-)! Have pretty much what Blackdog Lin does - money stashed to pay approx. 8 months of expenses bills - more if I severely cutback on food - assuming it doesn't go thru the roof (and I believe it will if the end is neigh), no debt, payed for (and gassed up) vehicle, some stored food and water, guns and lots of ammo for protection and hunting, lots of other things if off-grid and out of house for survival too. I can probably survive a year or more if the Zombies don't get me (hope to get them first for my infamous high protein "Zombie Stew") or the bombs don't fall even if money is completely de-valued. Will I need too? I don't think so. Even in post WWI and WWII Germany, where the entire country and financial system collapsed completely and money was worth nothing, people survived and re-built as did most of Europe and other war torn countries. I don't believe that will happen here at this time. Tough times for many but not dire IMHO.

poetry_writer
10-23-11, 8:55pm
I want to take mine out of the bank but dont think there is a safe place to put it (where? mayo jar? safe? nah). I do think we are headed for an economic meltdown. If it happens though, will anyones money be any good? I think it would be better to put some of it into some land, and a place to live. Panic? No. Common sense however. I think everyone should have a supply of food , water, necessities that may pertain to you and your family. This is good even for other emergencies...like long power outages in weather emergencies.

Zoebird
10-23-11, 11:44pm
no the money won't be any good if we have economic meltdown, whichi s also why jubilee would work to everyone's benefit.

stuboyle
10-25-11, 3:42pm
I think a worst-case scenario would be another great depression along with run-away inflation. However, we all know that people and markets swing from periods extreme pessimism to irrational exuberance. I think the pendulum has swung to the side of extreme pessimism. So if you believe in a contrarion investment strategy, you need to be selling gold and buying stocks. Mark my words, now is the time to buying into the market. Eventually we will work through all this mess and when we do the markets will go much higher and I will be rich. Well, that's the plan anyway ;)

I was buying in the midst of the debt ceiling debacle. I bought $13,000 in high-dividend yielding stocks such as AT&T and Royal Dutch Shell and now it is worth $14,172. Stocks can be a hedge against inflation.

Berrydale
11-10-11, 6:40am
Here in Australia, my partner and I are very interested in simplifying our lives and "preparing". We have a survivalist type forum to thank for bringing us together .... we met online through that forum - he in Canada, I was in Australia. 3 years later, we are extremely happy together, and now that all the trials we had to endure to BE together, are over, we can now focus on preparation for the coming years.