View Full Version : A frugal way of shooting the 1911A1 pistol
This year is the 100th anniversary of John Browning's invention of the 1911A1 pistol in .45ACP. It's a wonderful firearm, military and police still use it 100 years later, and the firearm is a great favorite of competitive target shooters.
However. .45ACP ammunition is a bit spendy these days. You can easily spend 50 cents or more per round for quality match ammunition.
.22LR runs a few pennies a round for high-grade ammunition.
Well....
I picked this up yesterday while I was over on the mainland. I'd dropped by a gunshop looking for info on the new Browning reduced-scale 1911 in .22LR, which they hadn't seen any of yet. They did have this cute SIG 1911, in .22LR, full-sized, nearly full weight.
I've only fired a few boxes through it so far, but it's a lot of fun, and seems to be functional, and is reasonably accurate. The gun shop guy claimed there is substantial parts interchangeability with a real 1911, I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Bottom line: if you practice with a 1911-style pistol a lot, this sort of thing could save you a great deal of money. When I'm training for a match, I'll shoot 500-1000 rounds of .45ACP per week, which in this economy adds up pretty fast. This .22 training pistol will pay for itself in a week or so.
Minor complaints:
- the grip safety is a bit stiff
- the sights are reasonable, but are cheezy plastic. They look trivial to replace with real sights if you are so inclined.
- it has a magazine safety, so it won't go bang with no magazine inserted Gun shop guy says it's trivial to remove.
- SIG magazines are stupid expensive, a spare mag cost me $42.
- teardown for cleaning is a bit different from the 1911, but not bad, and better than a Ruger Mark II/III :-)
Positive points:
- It was ~$350
- Quality and function are OK
- It fits perfectly in stock 1911 holsters
- other than the magazine safety, it has the same user interface as a real 1911
- They give you three front sight posts to dial in point-of-aim for various ammo
- They come in black, OD, FDE
- Nice wood grips
- It's the 100th anniversary of the 1911, you need a fun toy to celebrate
I think SIG probably is just rebadging the GSG 1911 .22LR pistol, but I've never had one of those in my hand for a detailed comparison.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FstZU1ze4I8/Tr7Khb8kETI/AAAAAAAAEMw/a6UtuhS8oyo/s640/IMG_0242.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qdte-ye8PiM/Tr7KaEy6YWI/AAAAAAAAEMs/T8-PUb3zeyc/s640/IMG_0243.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--oYoXVHKUDw/Tr7KSoieiKI/AAAAAAAAEMo/k9gVKNJ5o0A/s640/IMG_0244.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xQPyNg_Br8g/Tr7KLJ5wHGI/AAAAAAAAEMA/I2miy1jQHQE/s720/IMG_0245.JPG
How does the weight compare to a 1911A1. I had a military 1911A1 and it was hard to hit anything because it was so lose.
Yossarian
11-12-11, 5:17pm
I was thinking of 1911s yesterday. One of the very few things I own that I would never sell is my grandfather's 1911 which he carried in the Pacific and Korea. Made in 1917 (so I believe a 1911 not A1) and still works great to this day- don't have any problems hitting things.:~)
http://forum.gon.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223635&stc=1&d=1321136016
How does the weight compare to a 1911A1. I had a military 1911A1 and it was hard to hit anything because it was so lose.
This is almost the same weight as a .45ACP 1911, within a few ounces.
Your experience with inaccuracy of well-worn 1911s is typical, I am afraid. Reliability in the design calls for somewhat sloppy tolerances, which is detrimental to accuracy. Reducing the slop/looseness improves accuracy hugely, but at the expense of reliability, especially in poor environmental circumstances. So the WWII-era ones pretty much erred on the side of always going bang, instead of accuracy.
There's a huge aftermarket, built up over the past 100 years, of gunsmiths who know how to hotrod/accurize the basic design, and some of them manage to do so while retaining "reasonable" reliability.
It is nice to see, from a frugal-engineering point of view, a 100-year-old design still doing so well, instead of being replaced every 9 months by The Latest Greatest Thing. Good thing Apple never made firearms :-)
Yossarian
11-13-11, 10:00am
What's up with that dragon claw sticking out on top of the grip safety?
What's up with that dragon claw sticking out on top of the grip safety?
That would be part of the grip safety itself, a flavor known as the "beavertail grip safety". It serves several purposes - it protects the back of the ****ed hammer from biting into your side when carried, and allows you to grip the pistol a bit higher up for a better natural point of aim (depending on your hand shape) without risking the slide nipping your hand as it cycles.
I'm not a huge fan of the style, but most of the custom target/race/tactical guns seem to have them these days, so I suspect SIG slapped that style on for pure marketing reasons. Like putting racing stripes on it :-)
That's what we had in the CG until we "upgraded"?? to Beretta 9mm's (now .40 Sigs). Fun! I have somewhat given up target shooting because of the expense (use to reload myself but ex-dh got all the re-loading stuff in the divorce :-)!) so now just do it to keep my skills up. Sis is armed security for a defense contractor who has an on-site outdoor range where we could shoot anything we wanted (and I mean anything) for free but she's getting laid off so now I'll have to pay. Although, in a world where it seems men can still get discriminated against for being...er...men, most indoor ranges have free ladies nights where you can not only get range fees and targets for free, but you can use all of their rental weapons for free. Gotta pay for ammo though and that can get expensive.
I put this out as a loaner gun at our club's public turkey shoot today. Everybody liked it. We were shooting inexpensive Wolf ammo all day, and the gun, in the hands of dozens of different people, only had one stovepipe malfunction out of hundreds of rounds fired, and no other complaints. People seemed to be winning turkeys with it, so I gave it a quick try at the end of the day with the Wolf ammo, in quite dim light, 25 yards:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yg_cq6z4GYs/TshhYzAPyII/AAAAAAAAERw/5sMXi7xASTI/s640/IMG_0250.JPG
I haven't been shooting in ages and this is making me realize how much I miss it. Maybe it's time to fork over some money for ammo and see if I can still hit the target. :)
I haven't been shooting in ages and this is making me realize how much I miss it. Maybe it's time to fork over some money for ammo and see if I can still hit the target. :)
Check out Project Appleseed for free all day and multi day range time and instruction (not that you need that) in a variety of long guns - even some from the revolutionary war (get your musket balls and powder ready :-)!). You do have to pay for ammo though but they sell it cheap at their "bootcamps". Unfortunately for men it costs. If I was a guy I'd be soooooo wildly fired up and pissed off at free ""ladies nights" when you have to pay. But hey, maybe you like it, what do I know :-)!
The Appleseed folks indeed provide great instruction, it's well worth checking out!
Check out Project Appleseed for free all day and multi day range time and instruction (not that you need that) in a variety of long guns - even some from the revolutionary war (get your musket balls and powder ready :-)!). You do have to pay for ammo though but they sell it cheap at their "bootcamps". Unfortunately for men it costs. If I was a guy I'd be soooooo wildly fired up and pissed off at free ""ladies nights" when you have to pay. But hey, maybe you like it, what do I know :-)!
Oh cool! Right now the closest I can find is about 4 hours away, so I'll have to keep watching. I have access to outdoor shooting areas, but it would be a lot of fun to try out several different guns.
Oh cool! Right now the closest I can find is about 4 hours away, so I'll have to keep watching. I have access to outdoor shooting areas, but it would be a lot of fun to try out several different guns.
I've never been to one but my sister just went to a 2 day Appleseed thing and said she loved it. Not only did she get to shoot pretty much everything (as well as her own rifles) it didn't cost her anything! Plus, as an attractive woman in a place that is 99% men, she got to try out alot of other people's rifles and didn't have to pay for the ammo! And after seeing your very cute profile pic, you'll get lots of manly help too :-)!!. She's going to one of their week long camps as soon as she gets laid off from her job (heavily armed security of all things :-)!) and has the free time. Those cost but I think it's only about $10/day plus you have to pay for your own motel or campsite. Sounds fun!
I was out working in the woods much of the day today, and put about 500 rounds through this shooting at random fun stuff. It always went bang, and I really enjoyed shooting it.
This is now one of my favorite guns for messing-around-with.
I'm going to order a Patton-style holster for it from El Paso Saddlery tomorrow I think :-)
As to Appleseeds, they offer great shooting instruction, but I will give fair warning, some of the ones I've been to also offered a pretty classical-liberal presentation of early American history, and the reasons you might want to be proficient with a rifle, which some may take issue with.
As to Appleseeds, they offer great shooting instruction, but I will give fair warning, some of the ones I've been to also offered a pretty classical-liberal presentation of early American history, and the reasons you might want to be proficient with a rifle, which some may take issue with.
My sister did say they gave a history lesson. She liked it and found it interesting but isn't too much of a history buff so didn't really have an opijnion one way or the other on it's objectivity. She just like to shoot at things - random fun stuff like you do :-)!
I would be in it for the shooting, too, rather than the history lesson. But I might have to leave DH home if he's going to impede my access to other guns. ;)
We really do need to get out and practice. DH and I both want to get the concealed carry license, but we've been so busy with the house project that we haven't taken the time to target shoot. The instructor told us that the aiming requirements aren't too precise, but I don't want to embarrass myself in public.
Yossarian
12-30-11, 11:22am
However. .45ACP ammunition is a bit spendy these days. You can easily spend 50 cents or more per round for quality match ammunition.
.22LR runs a few pennies a round for high-grade ammunition.
So this is my new favorite option:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7019/6600868801_b10f414b17.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/73138905@N05/6600868801/)
Which is 9x19:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6600868889_ba9855dca4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/73138905@N05/6600868889/)
Not as cheap as .22 but 9mm is still much less than .45 ACP. They opened a new range near me so it's been great to pick up an old hobby again. I started buying by the case and am going to start participating in the weekly IDPA shoots (my Glocks are 9mm too) so cost matters. In a fabulous rationalization I figure the gun pays for itself in 5,000 rounds.
I like 9mm better than .45 but there is just something about the 1911 that takes me back to when I was a kid, so this is a win-win for me. Thanks Santa!
Nice pistol. Thanks for the photos and review.
another affordable alternative is to get a 22 LR conversion for an existing 1911. I used to have a Kimber conversion kit that would replace the upper half (slide, barrel, etc.) and the magazine and convert the pistol into a 10 shot 22LR 1911. It was very accurate and reliable. The only difference in function between a real 1911 and the conversion was that there was no slide-lock feature when the mag was empty. This was done to avoid peening of the slide stop notch on the aluminum conversion slide.
I eventually sold the conversion kit, but if you are a 1911 fan, it might be a convenient alternative to shooting higher priced centerfire ammo.
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