Renting out to section 8

[RosieTR]

Renting out our house in Phoenix seems like the best of bad choices and so we are trying to decide whether to allow section 8 renters. The negative is that I just have the image of a place that's trashed. The positive is that my MIL said they do checks every 3 months to ensure cleanliness and liveability so they couldn't be severe hoarders or anything. Given that our renters in the CO house appeared to have just locked their dogs in the basement for extended periods of time among other things, and it was a property management company overseeing the place, I'm not sure which choice is better. Any thoughts or experience? We will by law have to work with a property management company in Phx but the choice of whether to OK section 8 is up to us.

[herbgeek]

I have only one personal experience to speak of, and I realize that a sample size of 1 is not statistically valid...but I wouldn't do it. Disclaimer: yes I know that not all people are like this or all section 8 renters are like this etc etc etc. This is just my personal experience, having shared walls with these people.

I lived in a condo unit and the owner next to me rented to section 8. What a freaking nightmare I lived through for 2 years! Unbelievable noise, rudeness, vandalism (they scraped our cars after we complained about the noise as well as attempting lock picking). They also illegally allowed another family to live with them, increasing the noise. There were 4 adults and 5 kids (sometimes more) in a 2 bedroom place. Things like: using a chain saw in the living room at midnight, having a party underneath my bedroom window at 2 am on a Monday night, jumping down 6 stairs at a time in heavy boots. When they left one fall, they left the windows of the place open, and I think the pipes burst. The landlord was apparently too intimidated by them that he called ME to see if they had left (after he called me a nosy busybody to the condo association when I complained about the noise). It took 3 months of repairs before he was able to rent it out again.

Since you're renting out a house, the likeliness to disturb neighbors is much reduced. Do you ever want to come back to this place to live in the future?

Again, I know you could luck out and get respectful renters. Not saying it isn't possible. I'm just sharing my worst case scenario as something to be considered that could happen.

[redfox]

I have the opposite view, since one of my dearest friends was a Sec.8 tenant for 22 years, while she grappled with a chronic illness. I got to know her and everyone in her building, all on Sec.8. They were incredible tenants. It wAs one of the cleanest buildings in the neighborhood.

There are no guarantees with any tenant, having been a landlord & rented to a sweet new age couple who were a nightmare in the end when I first started renting my house. One thing you can know for sure with Sec. 8: you will always get the rent. Don't make assumptions based upon someone's economic status. There are dreadful tenants at every income level, and decent ones too.

[jennipurrr]

I have several rental properties, but no section 8 rentals. One of my properties has always rented steadily without Sec 8, but its the kind of property that would probably do well with the program...so, I've looked into it and I know several people that have/do rent out section 8.

With section 8 you can accept and deny people just like any other tenants. You must follow the housing law so that you do not discriminate (gender, race, family status, etc) but you CAN use a credit and background check. I HIGHLY ADVISE doing BOTH no matter if you are going Section 8 or regular tenants. For me, criminal history has been the best indicator of a bad tenant. In general, renters are going to have money problems - first you want to find people who do not have evictions. Second, you want people who are HONEST about their history before you pull it. I always tell potential tenants that I am going to run a background/credit check, tell them we are flexible depending on the circumstances, and ask them what will come back? The ones that make no mention of their huge credit problems and past offenses are stricken from my list. Also, get past two landlords as references. The current one may tell you everything is fine to get rid of them. Also, if a company is doing this for you, make sure they have the same expectations for tenant quality you do.

I have heard good experiences and horror stories from property owners who do section 8. Its really a mixed bag. I have also heard to try to get folks on SSDI who also have section 8. They are likely to be stable, long term tenants since they are also receiving the SSDI check. Just a thought.

[loosechickens]

having had a reasonable experience with both Section 8 tenants and "regular" tenants, I echo Jennipurr. Most important thing is looking at the past rental history, criminal history, credit rating, etc. of tenants, and best of all, recommendations from a landlord that is NOT their current one (for Jennipurr's reasons).

It's unfortunate that when Section 8 tenants are stinkers, it seems to pollute the whole pool of Section 8 tenants, where when one bad "regular" tenant happens, no one decides that renters in general are just bad news. Our prejudices and stereotypes often are inaccurate.

that said, the fact that people are renters, AND have to use Section 8, does give you a larger percentage of problem tenants, although probably still a minority of folks. We had a Section 8 tenant or two who were nightmares, yet others who were excellent tenants, and the fact that you are assured of getting the rent, and at least nominal oversight of the tenant is a plus.

We should all remember that just as a majority of folks are only a few paychecks away from not being able to pay their bills, many are only a job loss, health issue or death of a breadwinner from having to apply for Section 8 housing. Lots of perfectly nice people are in that situation, and it's a shame sometimes that the few bad apples pollute landlords' opinion of the whole barrel.

Do your due diligence with ALL prospective tenants....look a bit harder at the Section 8 folks if you must, but some of the absolutely worst tenants we ever had never came near Section 8, and looked great on paper. And some of the Section 8 ones were wonderful. I still remember the very elderly tenant who because she canned peaches in August wanted to give me a few extra dollars because she was worried that she used more water than usual......

[bae]

I'd focus on the specific tenant, not on Section 8 in general.

[fidgiegirl]

Thanks for all the info! We are not looking at Section 8 because I think we will be able to rent out our house without it, but your information on applicant checking couldn't have come at a better time.

Good luck on your rental, RosieTR! Glad you are able to move back to CO.

[RosieTR]

Thanks for all the replies! The property mgmt company in Phx of course assured us they do all the background checks blah blah blah but then again so did the mgmt company here in CO. Working with the mgmt in CO has been a complete nightmare, from having obviously crappy tenants that were supposedly screened to denying things were removed/damaged by the tenants (what mgmt company doesn't take a complete inventory and photos/videos of the place before and after each tenant???). Therefore, my trust in these types of companies has considerably waned. With the Phoenix house we intend to rent it out until we've gotten un-upside-down enough to sell it so as long as any damage is minor then it's not a huge deal. If tenants rip out the A/C, though, that's another story.
I know there are folks on Sec 8 who are perfectly great tenants but I suppose my prejudice comes from some of my family members. There are a couple of them who might be (or are) Sec 8 candidates, in large part because nobody in the family wants to help them out. This is because they've been big jerks who have repeatedly dug themselves into holes and whined for help, then screwed over whoever it was that helped them until nobody will. While I realize intellectually this is not the case with all of the folks who need help, it's what comes up viscerally when I think about it. The stories help me get a little perspective, though. I will discuss this further with DH, keeping in mind your advice.

[iris lily]

I've known two landlords, professional landlords they are, who work rather a lot with Section 8 tenants and are ok with that program. They are on site, hanging around fixing things, keeping a close eye on the sitich and talking to their tenants often.

I wouldn't have an out of state rental, but you can bet my booty if I DID it would never be to Section 8 tenants.

The blocks in my area of the city that have high percentage of Section 8 are dumps.

That said, DH had a Section 8 rental for a while when we got married and he never had any trouble with his tenant. Single mom in school, couple of kids. The rent money is regular, that's one good thing.

[Bronxboy]

With the Phoenix house we intend to rent it out until we've gotten un-upside-down enough to sell it so as long as any damage is minor then it's not a huge deal.
Sounds like you own houses you're not living in in two different states. If you're upside-down in an investment property away from home, have you pursued a short sale?

Phoenix and Las Vegas sees to have essentially unlimited supply of properties, and (unlike more established cities) no barriers to more construction. That could take a very long time to straighten out.

[RosieTR]

Thanks, Bronxboy. We have a VA loan on the Phx house which means if we did a short sale we'd still be on the hook for the remainder plus get a huge ding on the credit score. We'll be living in the CO house by early Feb once the work on it is done. That house is actually paid off. The Phx house will be underwater for a long time, but I suppose we'll just have to suck it up and pay the mortgage until it's such that we could afford to sell. We could pull equity out of the CO house to pay the difference on the Phx house, but that sort of feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. I really don't know what the right answer is, other than that I didn't want to be in Phx and neither did DH so a few years of paying the difference between rent and the mortgage there is well worth not actually living there.
One plus to the place is that it's not all that far from downtown, compared to many of the far-flung exurbs where the building could theoretically stretch forever. Also, it's a single level so that would be appealing to older folks. I guess one couple has already done a walk-through even though DH is still there til the end of the month and doesn't have all the stuff out of the place yet.

[Bronxboy]

Best wishes on your houses, Rosie! Didn't realize that about VA loans, though a co-worker recently refinanced a VA loan and I'm pretty sure he was able to refi for more than market value. Agree that near downtown probably is more marketable.

Friends recently left Phoenix for the Pacific NW. Leaving was the best option for resuming his career after deciding to come out of early retirement.