Stoopit neighbor with aggressive dog

[screamingflea]

I've lived in an otherwise lovely apartment complex since August, and every so often a borer collie sprints up out of nowhere and charges at me dog. The full-on aggressive language is unmistakable - rigid stance leaning forward, tail upright and moving very slowly, ears flat, teeth exposed, growl. Only twice was the owner anywhere nearby, and of course offered no apology.

Tonight was the eighth time, and this time the owner saw it. I took my dog home and went back to talk to him as politely as I could. Predictably, he slammed the door in my face.

I hate to do it, but I think I'm going to have to strap one on and escalate this with a complaint to the management. I'll admit there's some ego at play for me, but eight times is a track record. And if the owner refuses to do something as simple as use a leash, it's a public safety hazard. It's a family complex and there are other dogs, old folks, and small children around. I don't want to do him any harm with it, but a snotty letter from them might make him think a little more clearly about keeping his dog at home. It's either that, or I call Animal Control.

>:(

[Hattie]

Have you tried pepper spray? That should make him think twice next time.

[screamingflea]

I thought about it. I used to carry it all the time for my own self-defense in my previous crack hood and almost sprayed a dog there. But I consulted with my vet and they told me that there's a 50/50 chance that it would enrage a dog instead. So given this dog's personality at the best of times I think it's not a good option here.

[bae]

Poor dog, stuck with a bad owner that's going to get it put down.

[Anne Lee]

You are absolutely right to talk to the management. I suspect you aren't the first complaint. If the management won't do anything, call Animal Control. I know what that means for the dog (and I'm a dog person - really!) but things could go horribly wrong very quickly. It's not unreasonable to expect a dog to be leashed in the setting you are talking about.

[screamingflea]

As soon as office hours roll around I plan to start with a call to Animal Control to find out exactly what the leash laws are around here. I am new in town, and there's always a learning curve.

If Dumbass doesn't comply with the mgt, or if mgt sits on its hands, I'll take an intermediary step of contacting the parent corporation. It's a national conglomerate so they'll be all about liability. I really don't want to bring in Johnny Law if I can avoid it. It's the dog's fault only as it pertains to its highly dominant personality. That can be managed by someone with basic knowledge and a sense of responsibility. Or even a $10 leash. I'd be happy with the leash. I've even thought abut offering to buy him one, although he'd probably take that as a threat too.

[bae]

In my county, dogs must be under control at all times, and dogs that aren't may be shot on the spot.

Tourists are sometimes surprised when their "harmless family pet" doesn't return from a fun afternoon chasing a farmer's sheep...

[redfox]

This is sad. Border Collies who are aggressive are unusual, and it likely means it's not getting enough 'work' to do. They are super smart, and need LOTS of things to do. I used to raise them. I hope it's human gets the picture - and I hope the dog gets a better home.

[screamingflea]

Dear apartment manager,

I'm worried about a dog that's been off-leash frequently in the complex. There have been eight instances where this dog has charged aggressively at my dog from some distance. Most of the time it occurred as I walked my dog behind the buildings on the west side of the property, near the line between the mowed grass and where it grows taller. This border collie has a pattern of racing up to us suddenly, teeth bared and growling. The first time it happened I tried to defuse the situation by speaking in a friendly tone to the dog, but when that didn't work I simply pulled my dog away by his leash, hoping the off-leash dog would lose interest.

There was one occasion where I walked my dog in one of the parking lots facing the center road, and the dog threatened us again. This time the dog's owner watched the whole thing. I began pulling my dog away as the off-leash dog followed. The owner said "my dog wants to make friends." When I pointed out that his dog was aggressively baring its teeth, he insisted that "he's smiling." His dog then charged at us, and the owner shrugged "oh, I guess it was aggression." He then turned and walked away without restraining his dog or apologizing.

The dog charged at my dog and I again last night. This time the owner was pulling into the parking lot as I walked by. As he opened his car door his dog raced out, again snarling and baring its teeth. The owner called the dog inside his apartment without acknowledging me at all. Now that I knew where the the owner lived, I took my dog home and knocked on the man's door. I told him politely that it was the eighth time his dog had charged at us. I stated that I wasn't bringing it up to yell at him, but simply to let him know that this was going on. He responded by saying that "he's a border collie." I told him that my own dog is a border collie too, and I understand herding behavior, but there's a difference between herding and aggression. He responded that "it's not aggression" and closed the door in my face.

For the record, herding and aggression are very different behaviors. Herding involves crouching with a long stare, and suddenly racing in to circle the "flock" while barking and nipping. Aggression looks dramatically different - a dog has a rigid, forward-leaning stance, tail fully upright and moving slightly, ears flat, teeth bared, and growling. This dog displays the latter behavior consistently in every interaction with my dog.

I hate to bring this up with the office; I don't want to cause any trouble for the owner or any harm to the dog. But as it stands, I worry about the overall safety of the residents here. If it were an isolated incident I'd be willing to let it go, and I've held my peace for quite a while. But other dogs live here, as do humans. What if this dog became so aggressive with a small child who doesn't know how to behave around dogs?

All I'm asking is that he leash his dog. I would have told him that last night if he'd heard me out. I don't know the man's name, but he lives in apartment #666. Perhaps he'll be more inclined to listen to you.

[jennipurrr]

If the apartment complex does nothing, I would second the idea to call Animal Control. Years ago I lived on a street with an aggressive chow that was allowed free reign. He attacked and almost killed a rat terrier that had gotten out of its yard. The next time I saw him out I called Animal Control. The owners did retrieve him and he was tied up (not a good solution, but better than the alternative of hurting a dog or person) and I also noticed he had a rabies tag on after that.

[loosechickens]

Flea, that letter seems very reasonable to me. If that doesn't get some results, one discussing "liability" might get some attention. I'm sure the apartment complex probably has some requirement that dogs be leashed (and probably picked up after).

Good luck. I know border collies, and that sounds territorial as opposed to any sort of herding instinct.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, and you're correct, a young child that doesn't know how to deal with animals or an elderly person, who could be startled and fall are all issues the apartment management should be concerned about.

[screamingflea]

Thanks all. I'm nursing a bad cold today and I'm very loopy, so I haven't trusted my writing. Maybe it's okay to send it as-is. I am open to suggestions though. :-)

[redfox]

I would shorten it considerably, so that it's read start to finish. Skip the herding stuff, and tighten up the details. My edits:


Dear apartment manager,

I have been frightened by the aggressive, off leash behavior of the Border Collie that lives in apt. #666. On 8 separate occasions, this dog has charged aggressively at my dog from some distance. I have tried to defuse the situation several times. The owner has witnessed these and done nothing. I spoke with the dog owner about this last night, and he responded that "it's not aggression" and closed the door in my face.

I am concerned about my safety. I'm asking that he be required to leash his dog. I would have asked him that last night if he'd heard me out. Perhaps he'll be more inclined to listen to you. I would appreciate anything you can do to address this safety issue. I welcome any questions you may have.

Thanks

[Hattie]

WOW PERFECT letter Redfox! I'd use that letter if I were you screamingflea.

[djen]

WOW PERFECT letter Redfox! I'd use that letter if I were you screamingflea.

I agree. :)

[Wildflower]

If I were you I would find out the laws concerning dogs in your area first. Where I live a dog has to be on leash at all times or a large fine is issued. If the dog is off leash with no owner present, then the dog is taken to the local animal shelter. If your laws are the same a simple call to the local police or animal control would suffice. If the owner cares about the dog usually a visit from police or animal control informing him of the leash law will be enough....

[Fawn]

Apart #666. He he he.

[lhamo]

Poor dog, stuck with a bad owner that's going to get it put down.

Agreed. What kind of idiot tries to raise a border collie in an apartment complex? Probably related to the same idiots in our compound who think it is cool to raise a Tibetan mastiff in a high-rise.... I love dogs, but some environments are just not right for certain breeds.

I like redfox;s letter, too.

lhamo

[screamingflea]

Thanks for the edit Redfox. I already sent it though. I know it's longwinded but I felt the herding/aggression discussion was valid because it shows that I know what I'm talking about when I say this dog is aggressive. Next time I will be a lot shorter, but I wanted to establish that it's a pattern of both dog and owner.

Presumably they'll send him a letter tomorrow - it'll be interesting what happens next. I don't want to, but I expect to have to escalate ... we'll see.

[Claire]

Sorry this is happening Flea. Keep us posted. I admire your efforts to defuse this amicably.

My $.02 is that, who cares what behaviors are being presented, vis a vis "friendliness" or "aggression"?

Assuming you have leash laws, off leash is off leash, and that's illegal. Period. You have the right to feel safe in your neighborhood. An off leash dog is dangerous. Period.

For those reading who might think, "What's the big deal?", you are right on that a child could get hurt, and when that happens, the dog always loses.

{{{{}}}}

[Claire]

Oops! Just saw the second page of replies. Will be watching to hear what happens next.

[Float On]

Both are great letters. I'd have added a CC: Animal Control at the bottom of the letter and gone ahead and sent a copy to the local Animal Control. They appreciate a heads up and like having the 'history' in place for possible future action. Sometimes a little "CC:" gets things done in a timely manner.

[screamingflea]

Thanks, FO. I always prefer to escalate in baby steps. I prefer to give people as many chances as possible to do the right thing. Also, the smaller each step is, the more opportunities I have to turn up the volume if necessary. So unless something dramatic happens my style would be to run through the established protocol set by the apartment complex first. That way, when I send a registered letter to the parent corporation, I can tell them truly that I did EVERYTHING I could at the local level without success. That there's some important credibility. Likewise when or if I finally have to take it into the legal realm. Which I honestly don't want to do - I really am a nice person, and I sincerely don't want this dog to have to pay the ultimate price. It just isn't necessary.

[Reyes]

Did you receive any management response to your letter?

[screamingflea]

A fun update ...

Basically, the way the apartment complex is designed is that there are a series of buildings at right angles to each other, each with its own parking lot. I'm in a different section from Chowderhead. He's lucky enough to live on one border of the complex, with a back door opening out on that lovely wilderness area with the wide open prairie.

For a long time I made a point of avoiding his parking lot because he continued to let his dog run free in the whole lot (at least he started presiding over that. Baby steps!) Then one day I decided to walk my dog wherever the hell I wanted, because there's nothing wrong with that. He surprised me by no longer letting his dog run in the parking lot, rather than display any territorial aggression of his own. Then I let my dog pull me over to that gorgeous back are behind his building. The view is lovely and lots of people walk their dogs there. In a final affirmation of it as a public area, the management established several garden plots for residents as well.

One morning last week, my dog pulled me back to that area, and I spent several minutes blissing out over the view. (Even a year later, I'm still detoxing from my crack 'hood.) As we meandered back to the complex, Chowderhead opened his door and his dog came charging back out. I ignored it and kept going.

"Excuse me! Excuse me! Is there any particular reason you keep walking your dog back here?"

"Why, yes." I smiled sweetly. "It's beautiful back here."

"Hi, my name's Tim. I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. We both love our dogs. See, they're friends. My name's Tim. We're both dog lovers. See? My dog's smiling! My name's Tim. We're both dog lovers. We both love our dogs. Our dogs can be friends. I'm sorry we got off to a bad start. My name's Tim!" And with that, I got the hell out of there.

I guess he got some other complaints, because he was clearly shaken. I had a hard time not laughing, honestly. I talked with another neighbor who's lived here for years, and she said he's a major pothead who's pretty fried out. No kidding!

So I've decided to let go and let Dog. Either he'll generate enough complaints from other neighbors that he'll have to leave, or he'll catch on and use a damn leash. Either way I'm content.