View Full Version : Argentina - Spanish Language Immersion Programs
My girlfriend and I are in the process of learning Spanish, and have recently come up with the idea of doing a Spanish immersion program in Argentina. Neither of us has ever done an immersion program before, and we've never been to Argentina either, although I have been to other Spanish-speaking countries.
We picked Argentina over other countries because it sounds like a beautiful and fascinating place. Also, the first book I read that started me down the SL path was Paul Terhorst's "Cashing in on the American Dream" - where the Terhorst's cashed in the equity in their home and moved to Argentina for the low cost of living. The country has interested me since then.
Our primary goal is to learn conversational Spanish. I have been to Spanish speaking countries many times, but always had someone with me who spoke the language, which was a blessing and a curse, since it was easy to get around but hindered my learning. The computer-based Spanish program we're using right now is really a good one (Fluenz), but we both realize we will never be proficient unless we get in the middle of a place where we actually have to communicate on the fly in Spanish.
Any suggestions regarding immersion programs? Anyone been through one and felt like it wasn't worth the cost? Would we be better off just getting ourselves there, finding housing and then trying to pick up the language by just going out and experiencing life in the cities?
Also, any suggestions on the country itself? Buenos Aires vs. Cordoba? Or someplace else (keeping in mind that the primary goal is to learn Spanish, not necessarily to go sight seeing, although we will likely work some of that in too)?
Thanks for any advice.
I'm somewhat in an immersion situation, living in Honduras. I get by somewhat by working with English-speaking folks. Be prepared to be annoyed (and, probably, annoying) when you can't be understood, or understand. It's the little things. Am I supposed to put the toilet paper in the waste basket or the toilet, and is that what that sign there is trying to instruct me to do? What does that billboard say? How do I order food? How much is something? When I hand money over that I think is right, and just get a look and a repitition of gibberish (to me), how much more do I hand over? Cultural nuanses (where's my spell check!) are the most difficult for me. Was that a gift, or am I supposed to ask them how much I owe? (taxi driver gave me some really nice coffee around Christmas, still hoping it was supposed to be a gift...) I can't read instructions that came with my cell phone, can't call and understand how many minutes I have left, can't read instructional notices next to displays, can't be polite with local co-workers beyond saying 'good morning'. I end up very frustrated most of the time.
I'm trying to learn with a combination of computer based classes and using Google translate. If you come down, how will that change your basic way to learn? You still need a way to figure it out. It just ups the ante, especially when money or food are involved. And, yes, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. but, trust me, living in a Spanish-speaking country doesn't make it suddenly easier to learn to speak Spanish. I've been here 16 mo. The lack of being able to have deeper conversations with locals than just good morning is what I miss the most.
shadowmoss - I know exactly what you're talking about. That's pretty much how I've felt every time I've been to a Spanish-speaking country (I was just thinking about how many times that has been - 10 separate trips to 12 different countries). I was even married to a native Peruvian for 8 years and thought I could have picked it up from her in that much time - but she wasn't able to teach me and I wasn't able to learn from her. Just learning through osmosis failed miserably for me.
What's different this time is that both my gf and I are really committed to making it all the way through this Fluenz program before we go down there. It's really a great program, and although I've only been working with it for about 5 weeks now I'm learning more than ever before. At the current rate I think I will be finished with it by October of this year, and we're hoping to make the trip somewhere around March or so of 2013. Hoping that a solid base from Fluenz will help us on a conversational level by the time we get down there. We'll likely be there from 4 to 6 weeks, so we have no expectations of being completely fluent by then, but are hoping the experience will move us in that direction.
By the way - where are you in Honduras? I passed through there on a bicycle tour in 2009 - really loved it.
EDIT: OH WOW!! I just realized who I was talking to! Hey Paula! The "shadowmoss" thing threw me off! I remember now that you left the PNW for Honduras what, a couple of years ago? Great to hear from you!
Hey Gib - I think Paul and Vickie Terhorst actually bought a house somewhere in Argentina and settled there permanently (next door to Aldoph H. maybe :-)!). You might look up their website and see if they know any great place for language immersion schools. Also, you might be able to meet up with them while you are there. That would be so cool - their book was definetly one of the BIG motivators for me to get off my butt and retire early. I always dreamed of a life just like theirs (but a bit frugaller _ is that a word?) of owning nothing and travelling the world as a PT (perpetual traveler).
On a 'do as I say, not as if I've actually done it' note, it was suggested to me that watching Spanish-speaking soap operas on TV, and there are several here, would be a good way to pick up the language. Also, get a CD of music you like and learn the words. I can recommend Alex Campos for that.
As long as you know enough to 'get around' when you come down you should be good. As I'm sure you found when down here, the people south of the US are a pretty tolerant folk, and really try to help out. Well, I did get scolded by an Immigration Agent when leaving one time that I had a Honduran residency card but didn't understand her language. I didn't understand her words, but her intent was clear! :) More frustrating was the time the waiter at the restaurant downstairs here at the hotel where I live was trying in his broken English (which was still way better than my Spanish) to ask me a very, very heartfelt question. After an hour or more, I still wasn't totally sure if he was asking to accompany me to my room for the night, or asking me to a church revival. I ended up deciding on the church, but it was not clear to me by any means. I declined.
Yep, Shadowmoss is Paula P.
I spent a semester studying in Buenos Aires, Argentina in 1999. Some things to think about, not to dissuade you, but to help you gather info.
1) Not the cheapest country - at least when I was there, but their peso collapsed since then (it was tied to the dollar at that time). Also, because it is HUGE, sightseeing is a major undertaking, and because it's far away, flights are a LOT of money. Sightseeing involves flying or spending many, many hours on buses, though they are quite nice buses. Iguazu, or the glaciers would be both huge trips, even within the country, but so memorable. That may or may not be of concern to you.
2) Beautiful and fascinating: true. :)
3) I'd go with Cordoba. I only spent a week there (and in the rural area), but I think you'd find more approachable people there. Buenos Aires is a biiiiiiig city and with many, many busy busy people bustling about. I have also heard of language schools in Mendoza, one place I never did get to, but would have liked to go see. I hear it's beautiful. However, Buenos Aires is like the "Paris of South America," and it is indeed beautiful. At least some sightseeing should be planned there.
4) The Spanish spoken in Argentina is quite different than other nations (except Uruguay). There is a distinct, sometimes difficult-to-understand accent and there is an alternative informal second person singular to tú - it's vos. Vos is used in some other countries, too, but it is not as universal as tú and conjugates differently. Shouldn't be a dealbreaker, but it's something to be aware of.
5) Any chance of going for more than 4-6 weeks? Obviously the longer time you can take, the more impact on your language fluency. If this is all the time you can spare, I would ONLY go with a language school given your goals and your background. You already know that sink-or-swim is not a good learning approach for you - you need formalized learning alongside exposure to the language. Plus, the school will most likely help set you up with lodging and maybe even excursions. Importantly, you will have people who will speak with you and at or slightly above your level to help you get better. As shadowmoss pointed out, when the gap in fluency between two speakers is so great, little growth can occur for the less fluent speaker. So I would STRONGLY recommend a language school rather than going it alone.
In addition to Argentina as an option, Costa Rica and Mexico both have good reputations for language schools. However Mexico is getting so dangerous with the drug cartels running everything - you'd have to be cautious about selecting a location. Guatemala has several established schools, too. I don't know about the security situation there. Shadowmoss can maybe say more as a neighbor to Guatemala. I was in Costa Rica this summer and it was wonderful. Everyone was super friendly and it was easy and fast to travel to different parts of the country. Well, it was for us, because people were driving us. But the one time we took the bus was pretty easy, too. The accent and grammar in Costa Rica are easy to understand, too.
In your preparation, you might enjoy the site Live Mocha. I've never tried it, but the concept is that speakers of many languages sign up and then they can be available to practice with others. So if you do some practicing with some English learners, you could then do some practicing with some native Spanish speakers.
Please keep us updated on what you decide! Very exciting.
Thanks Fidgiegirl - you confirmed many of my suspicions, such as not trying to go it alone, and the sightseeing thing. Sightseeing is definitely secondary for this trip, so traveling huge distances within the country to see this or that is probably not going to be in the cards for this trip. I envision finding a medium-sized city, settling in there for the duration, doing the school, and working in sightseeing within the city or nearby areas. It's sort of my M.O. when traveling anyway. I despise running nonstop in an effort to "see everything" before I leave. I guess that's why I've been to Peru five times and have never seen Machu Picchu. ha. Regarding the duration of the trip, if I could, I would stay there for six months or so but my gf works so is somewhat limited in the amount of time she can stay "unemployed" (she's a traveling Physical Therapist who works 3 to 6 month gigs at a time).
Paula - your story about the waiter reminded me of an experience I had, somewhat different than yours. I was at a wedding reception in Lima, Peru, in a room full of Peruvians having a great time. The extent of my conversation with any of them (other than my wife) was "Como esta usted," "Muy bien," or "Mucho gusto." It was quite frustrating. At one point my then-wife's cousin and her husband approached and started talking. Her husband came up to me and asked, in perfect English, "So how are you liking Peru?" I was so thrilled to have someone say something to me that I could understand, and in such perfect English! Instead of answering his question, I said, "Wow, you speak English really well!" He replied, "Well I hope so, I'm British." That made me feel about two inches tall. ha ha. He was a good guy and we had a pretty good laugh about that later.
I think if/when I come back down here as a visiting ex-pat, rather than actually working down here which limits my time and money to travel, I want to extensively travel in Costa Rica and Panama. That is the real reason I want/need to get much better at Spanish. Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Belize are also on my list. Funny to hear co-workers driving to Nicaragua for the holiday weekend to surf, or a former co-worker going back to El Salvador because it's safer and friendlier. They say San Salvador is a really nice city with lots to do if you live there, and the beach is not very far away. As for safety, so far the approach of keeping a low profile, dressing fairly conservatively with little to no jewelry, not flashing a camera/watch/money in public places has kept me safe. I feel much safer out in the country than I do in town. Learning Spanish is another way I want to blend in. I've taken local buses several times with no issue. Just don't try to stand out in any way, stay with a group if possible, and the majority of the local people seem to be nicer than the average American.
That said, two Americans have been robbed down in the Capital of Tegucigalpa in the past week, one had his camera taken from him while he was taking pictures of the area and one had just taken money out of an ATM. Lessons to me? As with my cell phone, only use cheap and easily replaceable electronics out in public. Only get money out of ATMs where I am not out in the open, such as in my hotel where it is in a hallway away from the main area. Honduras has the dubious award of having the highest murder rate per capita I believe in the world. The vast majority of it is Honduran on Honduran, though not all. I just keep a low profile, try not to be that Ugly American, and figure what happens, happens. Oh, and if someone with a pistol or machete decides he needs your wallet/cell phone/camera more than you do, let him have it. Just try not to be that victim of a crime of opportunity.
All good advice. That's pretty much how I travel when I'm anywhere south of the border. It's also important to keep in mind that even though bad things do happen, if you're doing the things that you're already doing your chances of becoming a victim are really quite small. It's really not so different than it is right here at home in the U.S., maybe with the exception of the jewelry/camara thing. Petty theft does seem to be quite common in many cities down there.
When I was planning my bike tour in 2009, most of my family and friends thought I was crazy, because the only things they knew of Mexico and Central America were the horrific things they'd seen in the news. It's easy to assume that entire regions or even entire countries are unsafe when the only thing you really hear are stories of murder and mayhem. We rode from Cancun into Belize, to Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama, through a lot of rural areas as well as moderate to large cities, and met nothing but kind, friendly people along the entire 1800-mile journey. We were certainly vulnerable, being out there on the streets with the people every day, nothing to protect us but bicycles. But time and time again, we met up with good, kind and generous people who offered us places to stay, food, or just a simple conversation (luckily my riding partner was fluent in Spanish). There were a couple of whack-jobs, but they were more annoying than threatening.
Costa Rica is amazing, but rather expensive by Central America standards. Panama is great, and cheaper. If you get some time off and just want to go somewhere where you understand folks, yet it's still got that Central America magic, I highly recommend Belize, and in particular a little island called Caye Calker (aka Caye Corker). Ferries run to it from Belize City. It's a laid-back little resort area with open-air restaurants, cheap lodging, no traffic (golf carts and bicycles mostly), sandy roads, beautiful Caribbean beaches and friendly people. The mix of people consist of tourists from pretty much all over, native Belizians, a Rastafarian influence, some Spanish speakers, etc. Reggae is commonly heard wafting through the Caribbean breezes, and people don't seem to be in a hurry for anything. I was there in the off season though (November), not sure what it's like during high season. Anyway, might be good for recharging the old batteries.
Argentinian Spanish is very specific. The sounds are so different from Central American Spanish!
Argentinian Spanish is very specific. The sounds are so different from Central American Spanish!
Yes, after you, fidgiegirl, and some others have said that, I did a little research and now I'm wondering if Argentina is the right place for this. Considering we will probably rarely communicate with Argentinians, we need to reconsider the destination, I think....
I saw several places listed online and this one sounded good www.ecela.com as it's in many different SoAmerican countries. Of course you can also go right to the source - to Spain www.spanishschoolsinspain.com - and learn Castillian or Catalan (what I learned living in Spain for almost a year - very different from "regular" castillian spanish). probably lots more expensive but it would be a great way to immerse yourself in spanish culture rather than So. American or Mexican culture - which are very different from spanish culture. Although I think you are more interested in So. American culture and tradition rather than european spain.
It's harder to surround yourself with language if you're not working or studying, so I'd say go for the immersion programme instead of just kind of hanging out in Argentina for a while.
Although I have never been to South America, I lived and worked in Spain for two years. I would never have achieved fluency in the language had I not been working in a Spanish-speaking environment. The easiest way to improve your language skills is to combine classroom learning with socialising and/or working in Spanish.
That said, I did do a 4-week intensive Portuguese course in Portugal and could speak pretty well at the end of that, even though I didn't have a Portuguese social circle as such. I think this had to do with prior knowledge of another romance language though. I'm not sure.
Suerte :)
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