View Full Version : how do you feel your generation affects your work life
I have a tricky situation, I am no longer in charge of the schools I was in charge of because of structural/grant changes. I don't totally get it. One site was taken over by the person doing half time already at that school and I think mostly she is pretty darn bad at this, I have brought up concerns about her at least 3 times. But it is done.
3 weeks in and we have chaos.
I got drug back in today by a phone call from her. I really think one major issue is the generations. She (boomer) is trying to get Gen Y'ers to do something different by adding more authority. I can see what she is thinking, enough authority will make the change and make sense. It is not working. That is an understatement. The Gen Y staff is dug in at this point. I am not sure how to express this without making Gen Y look like crap, but authority is not their motivator. I almost never used the top-down approach so when I needed to it worked, took some work at times, but we did it.
I realize my generation (Gen X) has a chance of bridging this gap if I am allowed to be involved. But this lady did ask me for help and I am supposed to train and support her and I am thinking some generational sensitivity would be important.
So there is my roundabout question, what about your generation and how do you get along with others.
No one, when they are the age Gen Y'ers are now, do authority. In my experience, lots more than just age factors into styles of authority & issues of compliance, collaboration, etc., in the workplace. I wonder if you're stereotyping the boomer who has your job - perhaps the generational sensitivity you hope for could start with you?
I'm a boomer married to a Gen X'er, and I supervise two boomers (one my age, one younger); a Gen X'er & a Gen Y'er. The only difference I sense that is directly tied to their ages is general comfort with technology. We all get aong with each other.
I'm a boomer, and one of my favorite bosses ever was Gen-X. The office was mostly young, with two boomers, and the rest in their 20s. He bridged the generations very well.
In my current office, we have recently hired a number of engineers under 30, and I'm enjoying it a lot. While I'm not formally a supervisor, I've realized that I am in a position to be a leader.
I agree sensitivity is important, I truly don't have an issue with other people. I am trying to find some type of reasoning to go into a meeting with her and basically explain why she has all her staff really angry and uncomfortable in only 3 weeks. Telling her she is rude to staff, families and kids does not work as well as trying to show that an authoritative manner that she may honestly have from her generation could be adapted for a less hostile work environment. We are spinning it here, but it makes things a lot less hostile and that is what I want.
Does that make sense? I really love all the people I work with from all age groups, we all have something to contribute. In addition working with people from Mexico, Japan, Germany, who knows where else is important.
It is taking all my sensitivity to not say 'she sucks and why does she have my job', which I am NOT saying within 100 yards of work!
An authoritarian manner is a personal thing, not a generational thing.
Considering that Boomers were the flower children, the tune in turn on drop out, the ones who didn't trust anyone over 30, I mean really, if this lady is bossy it's not because she's a boomer, it's because she's bossy. As a boomer I kind of find your assumption offensive.
I think if you do some research on leadership styles and management styles and look at what sorts of management styles work with a specific group, you'll be in good shape.
I work in a collaborative manner, only having to bring in authority on a rare basis. Otherwise, it's nearly all collaboration or simply allowing people to get on with their work.
I don't think this is because of my generation, but because of how I work and my experiences in the past in collaborative vs non-collaborative work environments. Likewise, my personality type has a general "problem with authority" (or rebellious nature), and therefore it's not a style that I would naturally choose as a first course of action.
Likewise, when I'm brought in as a consultant on a business similar to my own (and I have been), I spend a good two weeks just observing, interviewing people, asking them how they perceive the work and work environment. I try to discern the sort of work environment that they are in (what is working and not working) and then discern which sorts of management methods would be most effective with this particular group.
Being able to name the management style that might be most effective based on your observation of the group, help the person gain those skills, and then delegate authority/leadership across the group is helpful.
And, it takes it out of an "us/them" context and into a context of "this is what is going on, and here is how you can best inspire the best work from this group of people.
I go by individuals, not by labels for their "generation".
. As a boomer I kind of find your assumption offensive.
I do apologize. I was basing this on research as I was looking for ways to help the situation. I wouldn't want to say authoritative is bad, it gets things done and I have certainly worked with people that prefer to just know exactly what to do. There is a place for all management styles. It just is not working in this situation and I wanted to understand this a bit better so I can go into the situation understanding instead of judging. :)
And, it takes it out of an "us/them" context and into a context of "this is what is going on, and here is how you can best inspire the best work from this group of people.
Thank you, we had another change this year and I was able to do that effectively. Basically an outsider brought in because our requirements for licensing changed and the current staff could not continue in their position. I listened a lot to him and the other people, but part of the conversation was telling him that his staff did not see him doing all the tasks he needed to do. The way he could earn their respect was by doing all these tasks well and not asking them to do his work for him. Really I saw an overnight change with that conversation.
I think if you do some research on leadership styles and management styles and look at what sorts of management styles work with a specific group, you'll be in good shape.
I agree with this. Rather than a PURELY generational observation, it may be better to approach it that way too, i.e. "Not all, but many folks of (their) age respond poorly to the XXXX management style. Many are more motivated by YYYY. You might try that and see if it makes a difference." That removes the onus that she might be the "wrong generation" and keeps it businesslike and fact-based. Just a thought. FWIW, I work with some amazing Gen Y designers and they respond to involvement, recognition, and enjoyable work that matters.....authority means precisely jack. That's just personal observation. All situations are different.
I do apologize. I was basing this on research as I was looking for ways to help the situation. I wouldn't want to say authoritative is bad, it gets things done and I have certainly worked with people that prefer to just know exactly what to do. There is a place for all management styles. It just is not working in this situation and I wanted to understand this a bit better so I can go into the situation understanding instead of judging. :)
You seem to have missed my point. I was not saying that authoritarian is okay, I was saying that authoritarian has NOTHING to do with being a boomer. As a boomer, I do not like it that you assume that would make me bossy and authoritarian, because it does not.
My personal style is not authoritarian, nor do I respond well to such in the workplace or anywhere else.
Kindly refrain from painting an entire generation according to your experience with one person.
Uhm, she said she was basing it on research, not based on one person.
And, from what I can tell there are generational trends -- but that doesn't mean that each person in a generation is going to be the same.
For example, a lot of people are very critical of the younger generation in a lot of ways (these gen y folks). I know many gen y folks who fit the criticism (hence, the trend), but I also know many individual gen y folks who do not.
It's tough when everyone gets painted with the same brush, but I think that people realize that these are just trends, not absolutes.
And, the trend may be true in this person's case. Part of the reason why she might behave in a certain way is generational, as well as being part of her personality type, her work experience, or any number of things.
But, I also don't think it's the most effective method is managing this situation, or helping out -- which is why I was pointing to just looking at management styles.
It's helpful to remember that there is a time for every style. Example: in my work, when we have a behavioral code emergency, we adopt a clear chain of command model with one person in charge doing all the talking and directing. Otherwise, we work collaboratively, considering various ideas, etc. If you could use examples from your work where authoritarian is needed, then stress that most of the time a different style works better, she may be better able to hear you.
Any good employee, or even mediocre employees, for that matter, wish to know "why" behind the decision. If you mean that Authoritarian style is "do this because I say so' and never provide the reasons why staff are do do it, well, no generation likes that.
I'm wondering how it's your role to inform this person what her management style should or should not be? Has she asked for your feedback? Uninvited feedback will nearly always feel like judgement & criticism, and I wonder what is driving your belief that this is your role?
Here is a thinking tool that I have found very useful, and you may, too. It's called The Ladder of Inference. I'd be interested in your experiences using it if you choose to do so.
http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC_91.htm
It's helpful to remember that there is a time for every style. Example: in my work, when we have a behavioral code emergency, we adopt a clear chain of command model with one person in charge doing all the talking and directing. Otherwise, we work collaboratively, considering various ideas, etc. If you could use examples from your work where authoritarian is needed, then stress that most of the time a different style works better, she may be better able to hear you.
Well said.
thank you for input all, I will check out that link redfox.
The reason I am asking is because I did get asked in by her on Friday and they want me at site on Monday (I assume to pull staff one by one for write ups). Since the change 3 weeks ago I have not been at the site or talked to my former staff except one payroll question. I had some vague warning for a month but about 2 days notice and no chance to say goodbye to children or family, just staff. I have done exactly as I was told to (authoritarian style by a younger manager) and was not asked what type of transition I felt was best even as an opinion. I actually cried over this change, sounds stupid for work, but I stayed out of it.
I am thinking maybe the best route is to let my supervisor deal with her decision to have the transition go this way and request to go to another site on Monday rather than this one. Maybe we have taken my good attitude too far by asking me there to watch all my former staff get reprimanded,.
ZG,
There is more going on here than just this one individual. As you noted in your last post, this was a management level decision made by someone who you question really understands/values your input. I would draw some boundaries and stay out of it for now, as painful as that may be. Maybe this is all some part of your managers grand master plan -- perhaps she is deliberately setting this other person up for failure so that she can reinstate you in the position. But given the dynamic I have my doubts. From the way you have described things all along I have my own questions about whether this new, younger, authoritarian manager is not just trying to set YOU up for failure. All these changes and a lack of clear explanations of what they want from you, along with an apparent unwillingness or inability to work with your strengths are not good signs.
If they insist you go, ask for a clear explanation of WHY they are bringing you in, WHAT they expect you to do, and WHAT RESULT they are looking for. Drawing good boundaries here is very important for protecting yourself and your staff.
lhamo
PS: Have you read the book "difficult conversations?" Might be something good to go over this weekend, if you have time.
Considering that Boomers were the flower children, the tune in turn on drop out, the ones who didn't trust anyone over 30 ...
And while we're at it, can we avoid repeating this stereotype as well? This was not the reality for most Boomers, no matter how many times the media replays those clips from Woodstock.
lhamo, very good points, so I am NOT paranoid huh?
My sup does not like a person at this site and this is one more try to get rid of her or basically blame her for the majority of it. Each change we make she immediatly brings up A. When we had to demote A and bring in a new person (for licensing regs) the staff all had immediate concerns about him and I had a parent complaint. When I went to mysup she said it was because staff was friends with parents, which is really bad because the staff is careful about not talking to parents that way. I was asked for all the write-ups on A, don't have them because I didn'tneed them. I talked to her about some issues and she has corrected themto the best of myknowledge.
So I feel my major competition right now, especially in career no-mans land, is my supervisor. It would be easy to say that I was not on the staff for mistakes now that they are apparently finding mistakes. Ihave been given a few projects and I am doing them quickly and very well (IMHO). Since there are about 10 people in a small office the camps director I work for every school break (there are 40 schools parent paid tuition and our 9 grant paid schools) hears all of this. She already has hired me for a summer literacy theme that is a great position and extra pay. So hopefully I can either move to the other side or in fall open the new schools under a hybrid model I thought of. Meanwhile I am working my rear off on the collaborations in the community, that is something that stands on its own in case I need to leave..Also working with the grant people to learn everything.
Difficult Conversations! Love the book! I use many of the skills from that with my supervisor and others. Early in the year we had a couple over things like taking over my part in a meeting as I was standing ready to deliver my part. We still need to talk about me attending trainings on lesson planning and basics with my masters in education. Lhamo you recall when I finished that.
Hey redfox, I read that and liked it. I feel that a lot of others are doing this (not just trying to say it isn't me). The S person last year was walking into the program, seeing one thing, telling me (usually in an email that kept everyone in the loop by including everyone we worked with) and then drawing conclusions like 'none of the staff care about the children'. She didn't even know about most of our licensing rules.
The worst part is that I cannot seem to get through to help others evaluate things with actual data of some sort. I think it is time to stop trying since others have their minds made up. I will just try to base my actions on actual data as much as possible.
And while we're at it, can we avoid repeating this stereotype as well? This was not the reality for most Boomers, no matter how many times the media replays those clips from Woodstock.
True, some of us were just trying to live to be 30.
lhamo, very good points, so I am NOT paranoid huh?
My sup does not like a person at this site and this is one more try to get rid of her or basically blame her for the majority of it. Each change we make she immediatly brings up A. When we had to demote A and bring in a new person (for licensing regs) the staff all had immediate concerns about him and I had a parent complaint. When I went to mysup she said it was because staff was friends with parents, which is really bad because the staff is careful about not talking to parents that way. I was asked for all the write-ups on A, don't have them because I didn'tneed them. I talked to her about some issues and she has corrected themto the best of myknowledge.
OK, given this situation, and given what you have said about your interactions with this supervisor in the past, my advice would be draw those boundaries and DO NOT LET YOURSELF GET SUCKED BACK INTO THIS SITUATION! Sorry, don't mean to yell but A may not be the only person your supervisor is trying to get rid of, given the request for all writeups from you that Supervisor probably knows very well don't exist. Consider the fact that you were removed from working with this school a VERY GOOD THING given the problems there and the unclear relationship between you and supervisor. Not sure if there are proactive things that can be done there, but by all means focus on completing the projects she assigns you AS ASSIGNED (creativity is good, but don't color too far outside the lines without a good explanation beforehand of why you want to change things and solidly documenting the good results afterwords.
If Supervisor is the one asking you to go back into problem school now, be sure you have VERY CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS about exactly what she wants you to do -- document those instructions and document how you followed up with them. DO NOT TRY TO GET CREATIVE. She probably knows very well the dynamic and that you are better liked than both A and her, and she may deliberately be trying to trip you up. It sounds to me like she probably is very threatened by you -- both your age/experience and your relationships with staff and the community. You need to manage that relationship carefully while buildling up your resources on other fronts. I hope this doesn't sound too paranoid, but I am speaking from very painful experience here -- I think a big part of why what was my dream job went south a few years ago was that I was not attentive enough to the details of managing my relationship with psycho boss, who in addition to being psycho came to feel very threatened by me. Why? Becuase I was very good at what I did and had a lot of recognition and support from peers and clients. After he brought in someone less qualified than me over my head and expected me to pretty much do their job for them everybody who saw it was going "what the...." and it was steadily downhill from there. I know how much you need this job, and deserve it (and much more, actually), so I hope a little bit of paranoia from me might help you avoid problems down the road. I was fortunate enough to be in a position financially and professionally that I could walk away from that dysfunction and be fine -- ended up better off in many ways, actually. Not everybody has the safety nets I have, though, and you are living really close to the edge. Be careful. Keep doing what you are doing to do the best job you can while learning new skills and building your networks. It will pay off in the long run. Sane and smart people recognize talent and skill when they see it. Psycho bosses? Not so much.
lhamo
Hey redfox, I read that and liked it. I feel that a lot of others are doing this (not just trying to say it isn't me). The S person last year was walking into the program, seeing one thing, telling me (usually in an email that kept everyone in the loop by including everyone we worked with) and then drawing conclusions like 'none of the staff care about the children'. She didn't even know about most of our licensing rules.
The worst part is that I cannot seem to get through to help others evaluate things with actual data of some sort. I think it is time to stop trying since others have their minds made up. I will just try to base my actions on actual data as much as possible.
I'm glad this tool is useful! Everyone leaps up the ladder of inference; it's a survival strategy. We all do it when we're driving, for instance, and see motion in our peripheral vision, and hit the brakes. It's a part of our brain that is there to react to situations needing instant assessment and action.
Human relationships are generally not in that category! Backing waaay down the steps and analyzing the situation with logic instead of reactivity helps one stay lower on the ladder of inference, and make data based decisions. Of course, I've known this tool for over a decade, and you've probably read my bitchin' & complainin' here... It takes practice to scale back down.
Good luck, m'dear. It's all grist for the mill...
The idea that the generation that gave us Woodstock, The Summer of Love and the Merry Pranksters could be considered authoritarian just wouldn't compute with me, so I googled it. Here's one:
Deal (2007) examined the attitudes
of members of different generations relative to
authority finding that 13% of members of the
traditional generation included authority among their
top 10 values, compared to 5% of boomers, 6% of
Xers and 6% of Yers. This suggests that authority
might be valued more by members of the traditional
generation than members of other generations.
Although the percentages are small, they lend some
support to the prevailing stereotypes that Traditionals
display command-and-control leadership reminiscent
of military operations and prefer hierarchical
organizational structures (www.valueoptions.com).
However, these figures do not support the claim
that Boomers presumably also prefer a top-down
approach to management. Most importantly, these
figures indicate that the characteristics that are often
attributed to a generation as a whole are often
shared by only a small percentage of individuals
within that generation. http://rtc.umn.edu/docs/2_18_Gen_diff_workplace.pdf
This one suggests that the OP may have confused boomers with what these sources call "veterans" or "traditionalist" - generation before boomers: http://www.fdu.edu/newspubs/magazine/05ws/generations.htm
Then this one says the differences are not as real as one might think:
The Silent Generation (born before 1946) values hard work
Baby Boomers (born between 1946 and 1964) value loyalty
Gen Xers (born between 1965 and 1980) value work-life balance
Generation Y (the generation just entering the workforce, also known as Millennials) values innovation and change.
Or, in terms of negative stereotypes, the Silents are fossilized, the Boomers are narcissistic, the Gen Xers are slackers, and the Gen Yers/Millennials are even more narcissistic than the Boomers.
Not so, says Deal. She argues that the generations now of working age value essentially the same things. Her findings, based on seven years of research in which she surveyed more than 3,000 corporate leaders, are presented in her new book, Retiring the Generation Gap: How Employees Young & Old Can Find Common Ground (Jossey-Bass).
“Our research shows that when you hold the stereotypes up to the light, they don’t cast much of a shadow,” says Deal. “Everyone wants to be able to trust their supervisors, no one really likes change, we all like feedback, and the number of hours you put in at work depends more on your level in the organization than on your age.”
Clearly, people of different ages see the world in different ways. But Deal says that’s not the primary reason for generational conflict. The conflict has less to do with age or generational differences than it does with clout—who has it and who wants it. “The so-called generation gap is, in large part, the result of miscommunication and misunderstanding, fueled by common insecurities and the desire for clout,” says Deal.
Summary of Deal’s Findings
All generations have similar values. For example, family tops the list for all of the generations. The most striking result of the research, Deal says, is how similar the generations are in the values that matter most.
Everyone wants respect. Everyone wants respect, but the generations don’t define it in the same way. In the study, older individuals talked about respect in terms of “giving my opinions the weight I believe they deserve,” while younger respondents characterized respect as “listen to me, pay attention to what I have to say.”
Leaders must be trustworthy. Different generations do not have notably different expectations of their leaders. Above all else, people of all generations want leaders they can trust.
Nobody likes change. The stereotype is that older people resist change while younger people embrace it. These assumptions don’t stand up under the research, which found that people from all generations are uncomfortable with change. Resistance to change has nothing to do with age; it has to do with how much you stand to gain or lose as a result of the change.
Loyalty depends on context. It is said that younger generations are not as loyal to their organizations as older workers. But the research shows, for example, that the amount of time a worker puts in each day has more to do with his or her level in the organization than with age. The higher the level, the more hours worked.
Everyone wants to learn. Learning and development were among the issues brought up most frequently by people of all generations. Everyone wants to learn and to ensure they have the training to do their job well.
Everyone likes feedback. According to the research, everyone wants to know how they are doing and to learn how they can do better.
For additional information, visit the Center for Creative Leadership Website at www.ccl.org http://www.amanet.org/training/articles/The-Myth-of-Generational-Differences-in-the-Workplace.aspx
Most informative thread!
It really sounds as though you need clearer boundaries outlined for yourself and understood by all the stakeholders who may impact your role, both senior and junior positions (what would be a better way to phrase this than senior/junior?)
Okay one little bit of progress, I have been talking to Target stores since they had a read aloud event yesterday (I did this event for 5 years when I worked there) and our programs are doing some in a week+. So not only did I get all the backdrop decorations but I also talked to them about coming to read at story times at our schools! They would like to do more than one, and I at first talked to 5 stores so there is potential for more.
This is fun, especialy since I was on the Target side for years, and it will look good for my role of building collaborations.
So now just cross your fingers on the running organization grant. We should find out this week, whew, I will have to run again however.
"How do you feel your generation affects your work life"
As a boomer, I get to retire earlier than the other groups and while working, have attained a broader range of experience in my field. Other than that, I can't think of a thing.
reader, I will check that out. It sounds like the way I have worked with people before of all ages. I did tell the new person a lot about how I have worked with staff before and some of the ongoing issues. When we started the year we talked about expectations and wrote up a big chart, which included their expectations for me as the supervisor. We have been very collaborative and had an improvement plan process that I was part of until the changeover happened. They were at the point where they wrote the improvement plan as a team which the staff was pretty excited about. Now it will be up to the new person to provide them with the support they need. That was what I heard the staff asking for the last time we had a group meeting including the new person.
The training and support has increased in our organization and I see it bringing out talents in the staff. Very exciting. Our entire upper administration changed a year and a half ago. It was much more 'top-down'style which is necessary when we get into child care licensing issues. Also the previous supervisor was doing what 3-4 people do now. It took some time for staff to trust us, they were used to a very strict model and covering their own rear. It was also the way we handled behavior with children. So part of this process has been teaching staff a new way to handle children and discipline. Big big change. My next step was to take the information we had on encouraging kids (as compared to praise which is a whole other giant thing!) and using the same process with the adults. I think I can still do that in my current role. This information along with the background I have in difficult conversations was very helpful in working out some issues with my mother actually. Just hitting a wall here, and I must agree with everyone about stepping out. It could be a huge set-up.
"How do you feel your generation affects your work life"
As a boomer, I get to retire earlier than the other groups and while working, have attained a broader range of experience in my field. Other than that, I can't think of a thing.
I would say that I feel the broader economic/societal situations are what have affected me as a Gen X'er. It has been a confusing process. I felt that because the older generation was good at what they did and still pretty young that I did not have as many opportunities to move up at work. Where maybe the generation ahead of me had some opportunities because the older than them group was simply not as large. I also have a huge respect for the women who paved the way for me to go through my career without as much emphasis on my sex. It is nice to see it be almost a non-issue for younger women. I still was raised that girls could not do many things but we saw a lot of girls break those rules and so I knew there was opportunity.
And I have had a lot of moments to be pretty pissed off at being called slackers. I got to the point where I didn't care because it wasn't me. Still the articles for years asking what was wrong with us, well not fun.
chrisgermany
2-27-12, 4:24am
I find that labeling of generations, like other generalizations, does not help me dealing with actual 1on1 problems.
All my colleagues are individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses.
In each of them I find a broad mix of so called gen XYZ features, independently from their age, and a lot of other features, too.
"How do you feel your generation affects your work life"
As a boomer, I get to retire earlier than the other groups and while working, have attained a broader range of experience in my field. Other than that, I can't think of a thing.
The earlier retirement thing looks to break down for the end of the baby boom, those of us under 55 today. A house bought 10 years ago that we no longer plan to retire in will be break-even at best, and while our retirement investments have been fairly conservative, they yielded no gains in the 2000s.
Even as a member of the minority of people fully vested in a traditional pension, with significant retirement savings, I won't be retiring voluntarily before 62. Even that could require part time work until the age for full Social Security.
On the broad range of experience, I can agree on that. Some would call it not knowing what I want to do when I grow up.
The earlier retirement thing looks to break down for the end of the baby boom, those of us under 55 today. A house bought 10 years ago that we no longer plan to retire in will be break-even at best.....
I guess that depends upon individual perspective. I built my current house in 1995 and in today's market, it's worth just about the same amount, but I don't consider that a break-even. About half of that purchase price was paid for by gains realized from the previous couple of homes.
many of us younger -- like my husband and myself -- will not be retiring.
there are several reasons for this:
1. for us, retirement = boredom and boredom = death
2. for us, we work for ourselves (and/or follow passions) and therefore can't imagine NOT doing what we love
3. even if we have a ka-gillion dollars, because of 1 and 2, we will not be retiring. but for most of us, in our generation, guess what? there will be no money for retirement. Our social security will likely be chopped before we get to it (eaten by boomers and older), and the economy is crap, and our debt is high (and to the point of possibly never being able to pay it back in some cases), and blah blah blah whatever whatever and so many won't be able to 'retire' anyway.
but since we generally believe in 1 and 2, it doesn't matter that much to us anyway.
damn gen-x-ers!
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-12, 3:52pm
The earlier retirement thing looks to break down for the end of the baby boom, those of us under 55 today.
I'm about 2 decades under that age yes.
and while our retirement investments have been fairly conservative, they yielded no gains in the 2000s.
Yes, and I never invested before the 2000s.
Even as a member of the minority of people fully vested in a traditional pension, with significant retirement savings, I won't be retiring voluntarily before 62. Even that could require part time work until the age for full Social Security.
I don't know, I may get out, even if I get out poor and even if it is only partial retirement. The thought of doing this for life is just COMPLETE DESPAIR. It's just like what ... was I very very bad in a past life or something? This? Forever and ever and ever until I die? And at that point even BAD alternatives start to look really good ... oh hey living in a trailer for the rest of my days ... it's not really that bad ... etc., etc.
Of course I may just try for part-time work again as it seemed to make the whole thing bearable. It may be frowned on, but hey just about the only thing that isn't frowned on seems to be quiet acceptance of unhappiness.
My current work environment is one of the best I've ever been part of simply because we are from various generations, with different generations filling different levels of position (ie. not all the older people are in charge; not all the younger ones are at the bottom of the food chain). Our individual personalities and experiences probably play a larger role in how well we meld though. It is very reassuring to have people on your team who have "been there and done that" from whom you can seek advice on work and even personal matters, as well as those you feel you can connect with through shared experiences.
As a 'generation Y' person (I guess? I had to look it up, haha!), some things I share with many of my peers is a lack of stable work; an uncertainty of what to 'do' with our lives; a reluctance to settle into traditional patterns; and having often had more jobs in the last ten years than someone twice my age has had in a lifetime ;)
I don't know, I may get out, even if I get out poor and even if it is only partial retirement. The thought of doing this for life is just COMPLETE DESPAIR.
I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. Having spent the 1990s in a desperately bad job, I understand the despair part. The reasonable paycheck was not worth a decade of almost constant depression and stress-related illness that eventually sent me to NIH (http://www.nih.gov).
Leaving was definitely worth it, even though the aftermath was 2 1/2 years working for 20% less, a year unemployed, then a year making even less. Altogether, making up the financial ground lost took a decade.
My original point was that the stereotype of baby boomers all retiring to waterfront houses in Florida at 55 does not hold up, especially for younger boomers. Even being among the richest 20% of Americans, without expensive tastes, we will be working full careers (we hope) and relocating to a lower-cost area to retire.
mira --
do you think young people your age have so many jobs because 1. they are typically the first fired; 2. they are always looking for a better opportunity and if one that pays more shows up, they're going to take it; 3. they are not sure what they want to do so they try lots of things and "job hop" to find a situation that makes them happy; or 4. they start working at younger ages and do a lot of transient (seasonal, connected to where they live/study, low-level/entry level) work?
Or other factors?
I'm just curious about your perception of your generation. :)
many of us younger -- like my husband and myself -- will not be retiring.
there are several reasons for this:
1. for us, retirement = boredom and boredom = death
2. for us, we work for ourselves (and/or follow passions) and therefore can't imagine NOT doing what we love
3. even if we have a ka-gillion dollars, because of 1 and 2, we will not be retiring. but for most of us, in our generation, guess what? there will be no money for retirement. Our social security will likely be chopped before we get to it (eaten by boomers and older), and the economy is crap, and our debt is high (and to the point of possibly never being able to pay it back in some cases), and blah blah blah whatever whatever and so many won't be able to 'retire' anyway.
but since we generally believe in 1 and 2, it doesn't matter that much to us anyway.
damn gen-x-ers!
Glad to hear you plan to keep working. I retired back in 2007 and I'm 54 now. No pension, just investments and savings. But I do hope that I can get some of that Social Security money when I hit the big 62. So you yung-uns keep paying in for us old timers.
I quit a good paying job that I really didn't mind doing, but having everyday to do whatever I want sure beats working.
I think that when your work is "whatever you want" to do, then retiring and working isn't any different. KWIM?
Good question, Zoebird :)
I think some of it must stem from not knowing what career path to choose, and since we're having families later than previous generations, we have the flexibility to job hop. Many of us are maybe too idealistic, thinking that the 'perfect' career is out there so we suffer from 'I'm 25 but I still don't know what I want to do' syndrome.
But even if you have a career path in mind, this generation has been badly affected by the economic downturn over the last few years. There are fewer entry-level positions and fewer permanent positions available (lots of people working on 3- or 6-month rolling contracts, fixed-term contracts or covering maternity leave); many organisations are no longer replacing staff who have left at all or with permanent employees. People from previous generations are also having to wait longer to retire, so it seems like there are fewer spaces for young folks to enter the workforce.
The majority of my colleagues and I are overqualified for the role we work in. But a) it's in the right field and b) we desperately need the experience in that field for future higher-level jobs because most employers are nowadays very reluctant to train staff - they want people who will just slot into the job with minimal investment in them.
I think that when your work is "whatever you want" to do, then retiring and working isn't any different. KWIM?
Until things like health issues, aging, and just being done doing so darn much happen...
while that may be true, most yoga teachers keep going strong.
Pattabhi Jois taught until his death at age 94. He worked until a week or 10 days before his death.
BKS Iyengar still teaches daily (from what I understand), and he is 94.
Dharma Mittra is currently 73.
Indra Devi taught until just before her death at age 102. It is said that she taught ON the day that she died.
My closest teachers are 65, 67, 70, and 73 years old. All of them teach AND travel to teach in many cases.
Supposedly the oldest living yoga teacher is 97 -- but there are various claims of teachers being between 83 and 97 all over the internet; and here in our little town on the edge of wellington, we have a teacher who has been teaching for 35 years -- she's 87 (teaches 4 classes per week).
While each of these teachers chooses on their own when to "pull back" -- most of them continue teaching until they pass away. Iyengar, for example, decided that he would no longer teach internationally about 5 or 6 years ago (might have been 10, at most). Which means hew as travelling the world and teaching until he was 84, and up to being 89 or 90.
I see no reason why I should retire if I have the capacity to continue doing what I love. And I do love this. when I'm not teaching, I get very antsy -- as if i'm not doing anything at all. And of course, I also practice -- a lot -- so that I can learn and therefore also teach.
And, I know others who are similar to me in what they do -- doing what they can to make sure that they can do what they love as long as humanly possible, rather than living for the weekend/retirement.
Most of the happiest seniors whom I know do things that they love. . . and they are still vibrant and creative and active into old age. I'm inspired by them, and I do not want to turn into the many retirees whom I see -- who seem to do nothing more than sit around, bored, or try to find ways to fill their time by "puttering." I want, instead, to be like Indra Devi, or to be like one of our coworkers Martyn -- who is in his late 50s -- who has no intention of retiring, just moving on to the next great work that he wants to do in energy healing. And I tell you what, that man is an absolute TREASURE.
I want to be this sort of person. I do not want to be like my ILs, who spend most of their time doing nothing and/or keeping busy and complaining about how busy they are, while also complaining about boredom. What is that all about? It's like there is no adventure.
And luckily, what I do prevents many aspects of aging -- so it's really catastrophe that I have to watch out for, if I don't want to end up bored.
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Mira,
I agree that the economy has hit your generation hard -- possibly the hardest. And of course, not knwoing what you want to do is perfectly fine no matter what your age. :)
I think that when your work is "whatever you want" to do, then retiring and working isn't any different. KWIM?
I hope that works out for you. My flight instructor is 77 and still enjoys teaching. I asked him and said he really wouldn't know what else to do, he plan's to keep at it as long as he can.
I was really just bored at my job. It paid well, but required a lot of my time. I realized I didn't need the money so I figure why keep at it. I still stop in at my old job from time to time to visit. But that's enough for me.
well, i do what I can to make sure that it can.
you know, i take care of myself and don't take extreme physical risks and do the best i can to drive safely, etc. so that I can continue for a long time.
I love playing roller derby, but I'm thinking that I might wait until there is a rec league because nearly every freshie from this year (8) has an injury that has kept them from skating for 2 weeks or more, and I just think that's not a good idea for me. So, i'm still skating, but I'm not sure that I'm going to do the big league.
.....I love playing roller derby, but I'm thinking that I might wait until there is a rec league because nearly every freshie from this year (8) has an injury that has kept them from skating for 2 weeks or more, and I just think that's not a good idea for me. So, i'm still skating, but I'm not sure that I'm going to do the big league.
My daughter is a member of the Black N Bluegrass Roller Girls (http://black-n-bluegrass.com/)in Northern Kentucky. Between practices and bouts, she's a walking, talking bruise. But she loves it.
I used to train with a 10th Dan jujitsu fellow in his '80s, and he could still clean my clock.
My great grandfather was still actively blacksmithing into his 90s, he was working the day he passed away.
alan, that seems to be the problem. I love playing (well, so far, I love drills that are low/no contact except with the floor), but at the end of the day, my end-game plan is to have my own knees when I kick the bucket, as opposed to . . . not having my knees. LOL
and i'm hearing you, bae. i'm hearing you.
1. for us, retirement = boredom and boredom = death
For me: work = boredom and boredom = death ;-)!!
You're lucky that you have found a way to live your passion and get paid for it. Most people I know don't have that and look at retirement not as a time to be bored, but a time to live their lives more fully. I was this way. I loved my job, but it was still a job that sucked many many hours a day away from my true passions and from having the life I wanted. So I quit when I could at age 42 so I could have that life. For me retirement is the antithesis of boredom - it allows me to pursue my dreams and engage in the kind of activities that I couldn't do while working (ones that will probably mean my knees won't be my own when I die :-)!) . I have never understood how retirement could equal boredom when you have the time to enjoy the whole world and everything in it - your family, partner, volunteer activities, sports and recreation, etc... - without having to bother with that pesky thing called "earning a living" anymore. When I come home at the end of the day I am still exhausted and can barely crawl into the shower and make some dinner - just like when I was working - but now I'm exhausted from doing all those fun and wild things I only dreamed about having the time (and energy) for when working 8 to 10 hours a day or more - and commuting almost an hour each way. Bored in retirement - no way!!
As far as "boomers vs. Gen xers or other generations", I don't really see any difference between any of them.
I have never understood how retirement could equal boredom when you have the time to enjoy the whole world and everything in it...
Right, except that I already do that. :)
For me, I couldn't work in the way that you describe. So, perhaps I am already retired. LOL
I know a lot of people who do, and like you say, they suffer for it for many years and would want to get out so that they can do whatever they want to do.
But I already do that. I love my work -- and not working is not fun. I also spend a lot of time doing things that I love to do. And, because I work for myself, I can do them.
We decided to take a family ski/winter holiday this year in July. We're going with friends, who got us a free place to stay (sweet!) for 5 days. And, I need to get substitute teachers for 6 or so of my classes, but it's all good. :D We are going to explore some snowy mountains, some snowy volcanos and some hot springs! woo hoo. :D
Yeah, I already do what I want, enjoy everyone, and I don't often work 8-10 hour days, or if I do, it's because I want to do that over something else. :)
why retire from a great life?
For me: work = boredom and boredom = death ;-)!!
<snip>
I have never understood how retirement could equal boredom when you have the time to enjoy the whole world and everything in it - your family, partner, volunteer activities, sports and recreation, etc... - without having to bother with that pesky thing called "earning a living" anymore. .
I'm closer to your view than the "work forever" view, and am confident that I don't need a boss (or a client) to ward off boredom. But there's a part of me that likes the adrenaline rush of a work crisis. It gets bored with the routine of holding down a job year after year though.
When the oracle of Microsoft Excel says I can go, I'm gone.
But there's a part of me that likes the adrenaline rush of a work crisis.
That's what climbing up mountains and then leaping off of them are for once you're retired :-)!! An adrenaline rush without all tghat stress and having to wear a tie!
am confident that I don't need a boss (or a client) to ward off boredom.
I am confident of this as well, but nothing really gets me going as much as teaching my classes. perhaps practicing.
i've talked about retiring to an ashram. if my husband passes first, and my son is happy and well, then I would consider that. going to a place where I could give up all worldly possessions, practice yoga, do the service of living the monastic life, meditate -- I would be able to live that one. :)
though i'd probably end up teaching there as well. LOL
Wildflower
3-14-12, 3:25am
If you can do what you love for a job then I could see why one would never feel the need to retire, but that doesn't happen for most of us. Have been retired since the age of 50, along with DH, and it is so wonderful to do exactly what we want at this stage of our lives. Our lives have so much more purpose and fulfillment now than they ever had before, and we have the time to help others, to be charitable with our time, no more constant stress and fatigue....all while living a very simple life on a very tiny income. Stopping to smell the roses everyday now. :)
am confident that I don't need a boss (or a client) to ward off boredom.
I am confident of this as well, but nothing really gets me going as much as teaching my classes. perhaps practicing.
i've talked about retiring to an ashram. if my husband passes first, and my son is happy and well, then I would consider that. going to a place where I could give up all worldly possessions, practice yoga, do the service of living the monastic life, meditate -- I would be able to live that one. :)
though i'd probably end up teaching there as well. LOL
Funny you mentioned this as I was just thinking about you last night (yes, I sometimes think about the people on this site - but always in a nice, wholesome way... for the most part :devil:). I was reading an old article in a magazine (Nat. Geographic "Adventure" mag from 2008) called "Downward Facing Boyfriend" about a woman who dragged her BF to an Ashram in India next to a 30,000 acre wildlife sanctuary to spent a few weeks (months?) practicing yoga. They lived there full time for approx. $11/day jointly including lodgings, all intructions and vegan meals. It was very spartan but something I could see you doing when "retired"! Of course the BF didn't last too long because, besides no alcohol, no coffee, no TV - they also didn't allow sex. That would probably put a cramp on the old romantic life with your DH ;-)!
That's what climbing up mountains and then leaping off of them are for once you're retired :-)!! An adrenaline rush without all tghat stress and having to wear a tie!
1. The climbing part works for me, the leaping off, I'm not so sure about!!!!
2. I'm four years removed from my last tie-wearing job, and very happy about it.
Spartana, true.
Though, I would actually join, and then I don't have to pay a per-day price. You just do the work and are supported by the ashram. I think it would be pretty sweet.
One of a friend's friends was 31 and died in an ashram. She had a headache that wouldn't go away, and after being told by many doctors just to "live with" it -- she finally went to a friend's dad who was a neurologist. She begged him to look into it. He ordered the MRI, and discovered that she had an aggressive form of brain cancer that was far advanced.
He recommended an oncologist, and the oncologist offered her some treatments, but said that they would likely not work. Instead, the young woman -- and her husband -- moved into the ashram in india where she'd received her training.
he was a photographer and he documented her death. I'll look for the web site. It's one of the most beautiful tributes I've ever seen. There were daily diaries of her last days (written by her husband or one of the other people at the ashram) and the most beautiful photographs. Even when her body was dead and prepared to be taken for cremation.
I thought that it was a pretty damn beautiful way to go, all said and done.
----
Our lives have so much more purpose and fulfillment now than they ever had before, and we have the time to help others, to be charitable with our time, no more constant stress and fatigue....all while living a very simple life on a very tiny income. Stopping to smell the roses everyday now.
While I know you are only talking of your experience, I simply and respectfully assert that one can have time to help others, be charitable with time, no more constant stress and fatigue (i think having a small child just equals fatigue!). . . can exist while having a work-life too.
NZers are quite good at it. I take pages and pages from their books. :D
Wildflower
3-21-12, 3:16am
While I know you are only talking of your experience, I simply and respectfully assert that one can have time to help others, be charitable with time, no more constant stress and fatigue (i think having a small child just equals fatigue!). . . can exist while having a work-life too.
Well, of course we did some of that while working, but certainly not to the extent we are able to now. It was very taxing mentally and physically working fulltime, raising a family, going to school, and taking care of elderly parents....not alot of time or energy to devote to others, but we did what we could at the time.
But now I must say life is awesome! DH and I both find retirement to be the bomb! There is nothing like waking up everyday and having total freedom to do whatever we want. And finally being empty nesters, we're loving the time we have alone now too. Romance is wonderful in our 50's and I treasure this time my DH and I have together! We do have quite a schedule of volunteer activities, but we choose to do it and have the energy and time now, whereas before we just couldn't do everything we wanted to do to help others....
Did I already say it before - retirement is WONDERFUL!!! :D
Spartana, true.
Though, I would actually join, and then I don't have to pay a per-day price. You just do the work and are supported by the ashram. I think it would be pretty sweet.
That article had said that most of the instructors (yogis? gurus?) at that ashram were all foreigners there to teach. I don't think anyone was Indian. It sounded like a sweet deal and one that would probably be easy to come by if you decided to do it someday. You are one lucky girl though that you can combine your passion with earning a living as well as have the free time to spend with your family and doing other things. Most of the people out there don't have that and if you were tied to a desk in a cubicle all day, a long commute, and then having to do all the day to day chores of child rearing and family and home stuff, you might not be able to find the time or energy to practice yoga everyday, let alone teach it. I think that's why most people retire - they just want to get out of the daily grind so that they can find time to do the things they love. If you already have that in your life, then I can see why you'd never feel the need to stop working.
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