View Full Version : Vegan DD with GI problems
DD has been a vegan for about 9 months. She seems to be aware of not becoming deficient in some vitamins, and takes supplements. A month ago, she began having tons of gas and diarrhea. Hopefully she's not overdosing on wheat products and having problems from that. Vegan stuff can have so much wheat and other stuff in it.
I told her she needs to eat a big juicy steak. cow-hi She didn't appreciate that. :~)
I think the first thing she should do is keep a good diary of what she eats and all the ingredients in them.
Also, I think adding a probiotic pill and/or something like a coconut milk yogurt.
She says that her eating hasn't changed for these 9 months, but I think when you're young, it can take your body time to develop certain problems. (she's 24)
I also recently read that some of the non-dairy milks can have alot of carageenan in them, which can cause GI problems in some people.
Anyone else out there have any suggestions? Her cousin was just diagnosed with a severe case of Celiac disease........so that's on her mind. But I think alot of us have problems with varying amounts of gluten. You don't have to test positive for Celiac disease to have GI problems with wheat.
Thanks for any input you might have.
I think you're right about a food diary. Another thing that might help pinpoint problem foods is try an elimination diet.
Maybe she's not cut out to be a healthy vegan. My own experience, my research, and a lot of reading have convinced me that few people are. If she's open to it, I'd suggest she read Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth, and/or this blog entry from a long-time vegan who was forced by health issues to return to an omnivorous diet: http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/.
Also, the more I look into it--and again as a result of my own experience--I believe a much larger percentage of the population than is generally acknowledged is sensitive to gluten grains. Some think this is a result of breeding modern wheat to have a higher gluten content.
I hope your daughter finds her way back to good health, whichever direction she takes toward that end.
earthshepherd
1-24-11, 7:28am
I was thinking about this, Cathy, and it occurred to me that vegans might have a harder time recovering from a normal run-of-the-mill stomach virus or bout with diarrhea than meat eaters because the veggie/vegan diet is so full of fiber. I wonder if following a BRAT (bananas, rice, applesauce, toast) diet to settle everything down for a few days might help, and then she can build back up again slowly. It may be that she just is eating too much roughage and she keeps agitating her digestive system. I have noticed on my vegetarian diet, which is about 99% vegan (I use milk in coffee, occasionally, and that's it), that constipation is a thing of the past, which is good news for colon health, but bad news for trying to settle down stomach upsets. (TMI maybe, but my experience might be relevant for your DD!) Does she have a resource like a wholistic health center near her that might be able to help direct her in fine-tuning her diet? Most doctors aren't tuned into the special needs of vegans. I have several doctors in my family, and they all eat Big Macs and french fries, LOL.
It's well documented that vegetarian and vegan diets are healthy when you eat whole foods. Food sensitivities, if that's what it is, can be overcome. I think where vegans and vegetarians get into trouble is when they eat junk food and too much sugar instead of whole foods and fresh raw foods. In my humble, barely-experienced opinion, of course. Take with a grain of (sea) salt!! >8)
I'm not a doctor, so take my opinions with a grain of salt, too. BUT I am vegetarian and I'm evolving into veganism, and I've done a lot of reading on the subject. So, my thoughts:
1: Earthshepherd is right--you can't cut good stuff out of your diet and replace it with bad stuff. I also agree with earthshepherd that if you eat whole foods, and base your diet on plant protein, it's going to be better in the long run than meat protein. If you read books by Joel Fuhrman and Dean Ornish and also if you read the China Study, it's pretty compelling evidence in the health benefits of going vegan/vegetarian.
2: Maybe (as you suggested) her body is going into "shock"--not literally of course, but just the rapid switchover might have her body in some kind of short-term revolt. It took me a few months to slowly evolve into reducing meat intake and substituting other proteins. Over time, my body adjusted (for example, I never liked the taste of nuts in anything. Now, I love them.) I've been vegetarian for 10 years and I'm just now evolving into less and less dairy. I'm 58, have great blood pressure, great cholesterol, am a healthy weight with no effort, have a lot of energy and have no medical issues.
Bottom line, I wouldn't fear that your daughter is harming herself, but she may need to really look at the nutritional content of what she's eating. It's difficult to be vegan in that you really have to plan your meals. Meat and potatoes is the easiest thing in the world to find and prepare. You have to be a little bit more conscious about eating if you're vegan/vegetarian.
ETA: I don't believe in winning a battle but losing the war. I think it's Joel Fuhrman who says to use animal protein as a condiment... very sparingly. I think when we tell ourselves for ideological reasons that we have to take a black-and-white approach to things, it's never good. So what's wrong with being vegan 6 days a week and having an egg or some chicken on the 7th day?
As my favorite Zen Buddhist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh says: "Even eating LESS meat is a miracle."
earthshepherd
1-24-11, 8:41am
This link might prove helpful:
http://drbenkim.com/earthlings-vegan-diet.html
eta: to piggy-back on catherine's post, if DD finds she needs some animal foods in order to optimize her health, there are lots of humane and free-range type farms out there that still avoid the horrors of factory farming. If she goes that route, www.eatwild.com may be helpful for locating humanely raised and humanely butchered animal meats and eggs.
JanV2.0 Thanks for the vegan no more link. Lots to thinks about. Maybe I should stop trying so hard to be vegan. I've been failing and beating myself about it for years. I just requested the Vegetarian Myth from my local library.
I'm sorry Jane I mispelled your name.
loosechickens
1-24-11, 12:33pm
Also, if she'd be willing......a little organic yogurt with live cultures would do a world of good for her gut bacteria, which is probably in shock from the relatively fast switch. She could look at it as "medicine" as opposed to food, and use it accordingly.
Thanks everyone. Lots of good suggestions and links to read.
At this point, she's trying to be a purist about this. She won't eat honey either. surely she will mellow a bit as she ages. At this point, she doesn't even want to eat humanely raised animals.
I'm sure she could find some vegan probiotics. I can't imagine that the only good probiotics out there have to be in dairy. I am sending her info on making her own coconut milk yogurt.
She eats very healthily, but just looking at the ingredients for things like seitan and tempeh and soy and almond milk, its real possible that she's having problem with some of the other stuff in them. Seems to me that moderation and variety is a good thing. I think she's been using way too much wheat.
I'll ask her if she knows of a good medical practitioner who is well read in Veganism.....but it seems like that might be hard to find. We'll see.
thanks so much for your input. I'm going to forward all your ideas and links on to her. :)
Jane v2.0, thank you for posting the link to Tasha's story. I found tears rolling down my cheeks; here is 20 years since I had a similar health smash as an ovolactovegetarian, and I still felt vindicated! Even after all my reading and research, and inner knowledge that one person's tofu is another person's poison, I obviously still have some shame and sense of failure at acknowledging that my body needs actual meat.
CathyA, given the time period - 9 months - it seems very likely that your daughter has depleted her stores of minerals and vitamins and her body is crying out for help. I suggest she finds a vegan practitioner and gets some blood work done. Deficiencies are best dealt with before irreparable damage has occurred, as happened to Lierre Keith, whose spine was irretrievably damaged by lack of high-quality saturated fats. Once B12 stores are gone, they be gone for good, man. I'm not shoving her toward animal products, but toward being sensible - she can get her supplements from a reputable vegan source. I particularly like http://www.veganhealth.org/ and http://jacknorrisrd.com/?p=1583.
CathyA, has she had any blood work done? Living in Eugene, eating vegetarian and vegan is run of the mill for the town. I would encourage her to seek out health professionals who support her eating choices and who will work with her while taking those choices into consideration.
JanV2.0 Thanks for the vegan no more link. Lots to thinks about. Maybe I should stop trying so hard to be vegan. I've been failing and beating myself about it for years. I just requested the Vegetarian Myth from my local library. If you're like me you're gonna breathe a huge sigh of relief after you read this book, which could be subtitled: "being an omnivore is a good idea."
CathyA, is she doing a lot of raw stuff? Things like raw cabbage and undercooked soy can be hell on digestion, especially as far as gas. Don't ask my very patient husband how we know this. :|(
I just want to say good luck. I have two friend who were vegan and vegetarian for years (20+ for the vegan and 10+ for the vegetarian). Around late 30's/early 40's, they both got ill. Very ill. One of them lost her job and her engagement she was so ill. One of them had iron and Vit D deficiencies and the other had iron and B12 deficiencies. For the vegetarian, she tried injections for the vitamins, didn't work.
So now they have both re-introduced meat to their diets.
I think small amounts of meat are probably a good thing for most people. I wonder if the issue is that deficiencies build up over time? And also that your needs change as you age, as in the case of my friends. What worked in their 20's wasn't working in their 30's/40's.
Cathy, I really think you are on the right track with the gluten issues. Celiac and varying levels of gluten intolerance are in my family, and my sister who was dx with celiac as a child (along with yours truly), is a strict vegan. She avoids everything with gluten, and is probably the healthiest person I know. She teaches yoga, and is the picture of health....
http://kiamiller.com/radiant-body/
My beautiful sister!
All that being said, there is something to be said for certain blood types doing better on certain diets, and while the "blood type diet" book itself has a lot of debunked bs, there is a lot of merit to the concept. I can attest to that, as an O+, I do not do well on a vegetarian diet, but do best on a diet that avoids grains, esp gluten containing (a no brainer anyway as I am a celiac!), and focusing on meats, nuts, seeds, veggies and some fruits, and occasional dairy.
Anyway, good luck with it :)
Cathy, I really think you are on the right track with the gluten issues. Celiac and varying levels of gluten intolerance are in my family, and my sister who was dx with celiac as a child (along with yours truly), is a strict vegan. She avoids everything with gluten, and is probably the healthiest person I know. She teaches yoga, and is the picture of health....
http://kiamiller.com/radiant-body/
My beautiful sister!
All that being said, there is something to be said for certain blood types doing better on certain diets, and while the "blood type diet" book itself has a lot of debunked bs, there is a lot of merit to the concept. I can attest to that, as an O+, I do not do well on a vegetarian diet, but do best on a diet that avoids grains, esp gluten containing (a no brainer anyway as I am a celiac!), and focusing on meats, nuts, seeds, veggies and some fruits, and occasional dairy.
Anyway, good luck with it :)
I would think the blood type diet is almost completely BS. I'm type O+, and I do much better on a diet that is mostly vegetarian, and I have no problems with grains or gluten. I love them.
But I do think that all bodies are different. I don't know why, necessarily, but I really don't think it's blood type.
Bodies are definitely different, and for some reason humans have both a small genome and a very high degree of variability between individuals. The thinking on the smallness of our genome is that humans went through a series of bottlenecking events. For instance, people with type A blood survived the plague better than those with type 0, while type Os were far more resistant to smallpox. Apparently it has something to do with the antigens on the surfaces of our cells. This is not an area in which I have more than a smattering of knowledge, so I can only report what I have read. Overall, I don't think blood type can be totally discounted in dietary matters, but I think there are several factors at play. People with type 0 blood whose ancestry is northern European are almost 100% lactase persistent, and have a very high incidence of celiac disease. If you're type 0 and your ancestry is middle Eastern/southern European/northern African, you're probably fine with wheat as long as you stay within your personal tolerance of gluten processing. You may also be lactase persistent, but in most of these cultures milk was eaten only as cheese, yogurt, lassi, koumiss, and other fermented, storable forms. These are hot areas, where unrefrigerated fresh milk will go bad in the twinkling of an eye.
Wheats are progressively engineered to produce more and more gluten, so people who were previously fine with, say, 8 oz wheat a day, who are still eating 8 oz wheat a day may now be getting as much as twice the amount of gluten as they were getting 10 or 20 years ago. Hmm, I just realised that the distribution of people who are gluten tolerant is that of the famed Mediterranean diet.
This is really interesting - it deals with human blood types. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-people-have-differ
This pdf lays out the incidence of celiac disease around the world, and notes an increase in this incidence.
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/54/14051591/1405159154.pdf
Bodies are definitely different, and for some reason humans have both a small genome and a very high degree of variability between individuals. The thinking on the smallness of our genome is that humans went through a series of bottlenecking events. For instance, people with type A blood survived the plague better than those with type 0, while type Os were far more resistant to smallpox. Apparently it has something to do with the antigens on the surfaces of our cells. This is not an area in which I have more than a smattering of knowledge, so I can only report what I have read. Overall, I don't think blood type can be totally discounted in dietary matters, but I think there are several factors at play. People with type 0 blood whose ancestry is northern European are almost 100% lactase persistent, and have a very high incidence of celiac disease. If you're type 0 and your ancestry is middle Eastern/southern European/northern African, you're probably fine with wheat as long as you stay within your personal tolerance of gluten processing. You may also be lactase persistent, but in most of these cultures milk was eaten only as cheese, yogurt, lassi, koumiss, and other fermented, storable forms. These are hot areas, where unrefrigerated fresh milk will go bad in the twinkling of an eye.
Wheats are progressively engineered to produce more and more gluten, so people who were previously fine with, say, 8 oz wheat a day, who are still eating 8 oz wheat a day may now be getting as much as twice the amount of gluten as they were getting 10 or 20 years ago. Hmm, I just realised that the distribution of people who are gluten tolerant is that of the famed Mediterranean diet.
This is really interesting - it deals with human blood types. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-people-have-differ
This pdf lays out the incidence of celiac disease around the world, and notes an increase in this incidence.
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/54/14051591/1405159154.pdf
Great post, and great links Suzanne! Thanks. Some experts think that as much as 38% of the population have trouble with gluten. Many people have trouble with gluten, and do not know it until much later in life.... And FWIW, I think that the blood typing food challenges are real, but that does not mean to say that EVERYONE is affected as there are so many variations, and factors involved, the link Suzanne posted was very informative.
Could be gluten intolerance brought to the fore by eating a larger amount of grains than before
I'd recommend she be tested for celiac if for no other reason to put her mind at ease. It is genetic and with a family member having it, she may have it also. The blood test is fast and easy and the blood can be drawn in the doctor's office. I know vegans who eat a gluten-free diet - it will not mean she has to eat meat if she does turn out to have celiac.
And even if the test is negative or inconclusive, it doesn't mean she isn't sensitive to wheat or other gluten grains. At that point, an elimination diet is worth a try.
clear water
2-7-11, 12:04am
If DD has a cousin with celiac disease , she should be concerned. I have two grand-daughters with the problem. Also her concern about wheat ,even if she dosn't have the problem. A women running a health food store, recently told me, that genetically altered wheat is causing a large increase in wheat intolerance.
I had been diagnosed with IBS for years before I stumbled across a book that described the symptoms of gluten intolerance. On my own, I eliminated wheat, rye, barley and supermarket oatmeal (which may be contaminated with wheat) and my symptoms were gone within three days. Perhaps your daughter could try this too and see what happens. (Also read labels. Canned condensed soups are loaded with wheat, for instance, and some brands of "soy" sauce are actually made from wheat.) There are many grains that don't contain gluten so not being able to eat wheat, et cetera, isn't that great a sacrifice in satisfaction, although it can get pricey for someone who doesn't like to cook or bake.
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