View Full Version : Frugality=Living like we did as kids
Buttermilksky
3-18-12, 2:07pm
Since I'm new to this forum this may have been discussed a zilion times, but it is a subject that resounds with me. When Amy Dacyczyn published her newsletter & then her books I remember reading a whole lot of criticism from folks, well, much younger than me. The idea that kids should tote thermoses and not juice boxes, home baked cookies wrapped in wax paper instead of snack cakes, and live with just a few tv channels and receive thrift store and yard sale toys was, to some, nearly child abuse.
Those of us of a certain age were all cloth diapered, played with simple toys, had no "gadgets" to play with more complex than our Easy Bake ovens. (Mine was a hand me down from a cousin who had broken off the door, so I had to keep turning cakes to get an even lightbulb bake. As a young married I caught myself turning cakes in my oven until I realized I was doing it).
We didn't have AC, we had window fans. We made toys out of stuff we found outside and invented games. To combine that with modern day convenienes seems like paradise for a kid in 2012, yet the sheer number of electronic gadgets and fashions never seems to be "enough" for some kids nor enough for the parents who baste in guilt if their kid is "the only one" without the newest, shiniest, information import, or hoodie branded by Hollywood's flavor of the month.
(Remember, in summer, playing outside all day & being called in when it got dark? And lying on the floor with a glass of Kool-Aid, near the whirring fan, sweaty and tired but trying to stay awake for all of The Carol Burnett Show?)
Well I guess I've fallen face-first into curmudgeonhood, this close to telling kids to get off of my lawn. But, honestly, the lifestyles of the 60's seem in retrospect not to be deprivation. We had enough to eat, a roof over our heads, imaginations. True today the norm is more the two-income household where day care is the reality and parents are working long hours to provide store-baked bread because they haven't got time to bake it. This is the reality for many families. They are trying to make ends meet and save for the future. They are doing their best with the hand dealt them.
Personally, as a kid I envied the Walton children. I was born long after the Depression, but it seemed magical that their food came from their garden and barn and chicken coop, that there was no TV to compete for a parent's attention, that the children could compete with other kids academically or by running or throwing a ball but not by the stuff in their rooms.
The pictures of my kid I most cherish are the ones from when we as struggling students had just enough to get by. Trips to free fairs, museums, the library. Picnics, baking cookies, growning both tomatoes and corn (his choice) in the sunny patch outside of our apartment slider. Long walks to find pinecones, pennies, or "the best rocks in the world."
My kid is an environmental engineer and lives very frugally. He narrowed down his cable then just sold his TV altogether. He lectures me about my grocery choices, reminding me of the health & planet benefits of green living. He has volunteered in South America, saw dire poverty and the chore of always boiling your tapwater in the biggest city in Peru to avoid disease.
I'm sure he cares because he's just that type of young man. But I also like to think of us three spending time at Grandmom's farm and nature trails, re-using and recycling because it was not only best for the Earth but how his Dad & I grew up. Juice came from cans squeezed fruit or the little cans in the freezer you added water to, not a plastic jug and especially not little boxes.
What I'm trying to say (hey I'm Irish--gift of gab) is that the green/simple living movement gets blowback from those who insist we're trying to take their conveniences & luxuries away. But in the 60's we didn't know half of today's bounty but we FELT both modern and awash with convenience. Because we didn't pump water or chop firewood like our elderly grandparents once did. So what sort of "necessities" will the grandchildeen of the Millennials find absolutely necessary? I'm hoping it isn't personal robots that follow you around like a valet. Or a hologram head so you can hide your own under a turtleneck.:laff:
My point is that we keep re-defining what it beens to be "dreprived." Being able to watch in real time what is happening to people in Third World nations, how they live and work in order to simply survive, it is amazing that our comfort level is as large as it is in America 2012. Choosing to use paper towels is a choice but to not use them isn't deprivation. Hunger and cold are.
And, returning to an Amy D quote, paraphrased, "If I'm warm & have something to eat I'm fine." And her kids seemed to have turned out well. Even for post Boomers.
Great post, Buttermilksky! It made me smile and laugh and look back nostalgically. I agree with the premise: we weren't "practicing frugality and simple living" back then--we were just living!
Made me think of my Scottish MIL who didn't wear her frugality like a banner. She simply wanted to save money. She wasn't an activist for the environment: it just came naturally to her to use eggshells and other compost instead of Weed and Feed.
I definitely remember the days of no AC... I had a bedroom under the rafters of a little cape cod, and it got SO HOT, I'd put my pillowcase in the freezer before going to bed. But, as you said, many of us (not all of us, but many) felt safe and secure and fine. We weren't deprived at all.
It seems like you've done a great job passing along the SL gene to your son!
Thanks for the post.
Sad Eyed Lady
3-18-12, 2:49pm
Buttermilksky, I think you must have grown up next door to me! DH & I are always talking about how now we have to make a choice to recycle, compost, eat locally etc. when the fact is growing up that was just how we lived life. Our food could not have been much local than my grandmother's garden, eggs from her free ranging chickens, and as a very small child we had milk & butter from her cow. There wasn't much to recycle in a way since so many things weren't swathed in plastic in those days. We returned our soft drink bottles to the grocery, and other sturdy containers could be put to good use for other things. We played outside, we watched one of three TV channels at night - the whole family together, 1 TV, and slept in the summer with windows open and window fans whirring. Yes, there are things I wouldn't want to go back to, but so much was good about those days. Simple living without being conscious of it! Thank you for a good thread Buttermilksky.
I was raised my later -- born in the 70s and a child in the 80s too.
I had many of the experiences that you describe. My parents controlled TV -- no more than 2 hrs per day, and since we had only 1 TV, it was what my parents wanted to watch (usually sports). Not being interested in watching sports, I would usually read in my room -- or if it was still daylight savings time (i.e., summer), I would be outside until bed time.
I didn't have a lot of toys -- though admittedly my mother is against thrifting. Something in her values says that children need "new" and "their own" things. hand me downs did happen, but rarely -- and my mother would not thrift shop. Even now, she buys DS's clothing new and ships it to us. THis is great, honestly, because we probably couldn't afford to cloth him half as nice via thrifting, though admittedly, my friend has all of the info on the best place to buy "second hand" -- the school galas and fairs. A lot of parents bring good quality clothes, shoes, etc to these events, and you can get some REALLY fancy stuff for very little money. BUt, we haven't had to do that ourselves at this point.
We live in such a temperate place that we don't need any central heat/air (though we did have it when I was growing up and we did use it when we lived in Ar and it was hot/humid like nobody's business -- though I admit, I loved going to the very, very rural home of a friend of mine in the summers and sleeping out on the screened porch on the floor with a fan blowing over us.
Our food was from the market, so I can't say it was local, and my parents are also against vegetable gardening. I think that's weird, but there you go. LOL
Extending a warm-welcome to you, Buttermilksky! So nice to have you.
Sitting here right now, elbows resting on desk, hands cupped on either side of my cheeks, reading your post with fondness and delight. My weakness is all things old-fashioned, traditional, nostalgic, and vintage!!! Everything you've mentioned is exactly how I remember it!
May I add a little more. Back in the 60's (and 70's), if a housewife/homemaker owned a washing machine (and dryer- WHOA), a vacuum, and a deep-freezer, she had it all, and in turn, because Suzy Homemaker/Housewife was happy, the entire household was happy.
Few families (I remember) were double income, and relying on just one single vehicle was the standard of the day. (Few families I recall owned two vehicles). And, remember how everybody hung washing outside on a line, and vacations outside of ones very own backyard were for but the select few. (The lucky few).
People took pride in their homes, keeping the grass neatly cut, the edges neatly trimmed, and the flowerbeds clean and free of weeds, and the aroma of good-ol' home-cooked meals (and baking) wafted from everyone's homes. Suppertime in those days happened around 4:30- 5:00 pm, in most homes. It was like clockwork, and entire families sat down at the table to eat (together).
I remember how special it was getting new clothes to wear (such a rarity it was in our home). We made do with what we had (all year long), until fall (unless we needed something bad or mom happened across something on sale). Otherwise, us kids would get something special in the way of clothing (and shoes) just in time for the start of the new school year (September), and I remember clothing fell into two separate categories, dress and play. (You didn't dare think about going out to play in your dress/school clothes).
AC/Central Air Conditioning, no one had that! Shade, fans, and the beach, were our saving grace, when it came to heat-relief, and if you were extra lucky, you were given just enough to make a quick trip to the corner store for an ice cream or soda pop, which brings me to my next point, soda pop. I can count on one hand how many glasses of soda I drank over the course of a year when I was younger. Such a rare occasion it was. A real treat. Remember homemade freezer pops? We lived on those things all summer long!!!
Gosh, I could go on, and on, and on... but as a mom and wife, I enjoyed (and still enjoy) practicing many of the same things with my family, as were practiced on me, cloth diapering included, and somehow, it never fails to provide me that warm fuzzy feeling inside, the same feeling I remember from long, long ago... As the old saying goes, "all in a days work", and what I'd give to be able to go back to those days!
I know in speaking for myself, whenever I reflect on decades past, I always feel such a sense of comfort knowing everyone did the same, used the same, thought the same. Things were so simple and easy. Practicality, ruled, and economics, was the basis for contentment. People were happier, more friendly, and more apt to extend help to others in need (without being asked or called upon).
Buttermilksky
3-18-12, 4:45pm
I forgot to mention fast food culture. We had a McDonald's within walking distance but we went once a year--to celebrate the last day of school. It had no inside dining, just a bench attached to the outside (and drive-thrus were in the far future).
The 7-11 was our place to score candy money by returning pop bottles, and the racks for deposit bottles plus the "TV tube tester" took up half of the store.
Can you believe we all shared one TV (black & white) thank you, with a family of five or more? The worst part was hearing your favorite shows pre-empted by baseball. Ruined many a Friday night for me because I had such a crush on both Greg Brady AND Keith Partridge. Was to weep.
ETA: Mrs-M my mother made ice pops out of Kool-Aid and froze them in Dixie cups. Was there anything better on a hot day? Soda was for special occasions and usually for the adults. We were happy with Kool-Aid and thought we'd gone to heaven when we had 20 cents for a Pepsi, an Orange Crush, or my favorite, an Almond Smash. Treats were rare enough to be currency. Sweet days those were.
it is amazing that our comfort level is as large as it is in America 2012
I think this is so true in our culture. Inch by inch, the level of what is considered necessary has gone up. Many would say that is progress though. I know my almost 80 yo in-laws would never go back having lived through the Depression and all those hardships. We also tend to romanticize the good old days though I have to agree that folks in general seemed more content with much less. There was a consistency and balance to the days that I don't see today. We are incredibly spoiled and being a tad uncomfortable whether that means too hot, too cold, hungry, without our devices etc is not acceptable. Strangely though, at the university where I work, I sense that many of the students are hungering for more meaning in their lives. They don't seem quite so interested in material things as the previous generation (excluding technology).
Nice post! I think in a big way I am trying to give my kids a life similar to what I had growing up, with my own twist on it. My early childhood (1980s) was much like you describe from the 1960s but by my teen years my parents had bought into a different lifestyle, one I do not care to emulate.
They've actually made a huge shift back themselves, my dad becoming a Franciscan and actively pursuing a life of simplicity and charity and my mom seriously downsizing her belongings, sobering up, moving to the beach, traveling a lot and putting a real focus on community building in her adopted hometown.
I have really fond memories of my early childhood. My mom was a preschool and Kindergarten teacher who became a SAHM and she was always doing fun and frugal stuff with us. We spent hours and hours outside with our friends or inside reading books or playing pretend. Dad did the cooking and he was amazing. It was his hobby and you could tell he enjoyed it.
We actually live in the same house I grew up in with my Dad. It was a large house for 4 people, but it's a good size for our current family of 8. We eat homecooked meals as a family, shop at thrift stores, do a lot of DIY, get together with family and friends for card nights, bbqs, bonfires or coffee, go on lots of walks by the lake, do all the same kinds of fun, frugal projects our mom did with us. We knit, sew, embroider, cook, bake, make our own cleaning products, homeschool our kids, grow stuff and build stuff. All of that is pretty common in our neighborhood, actually. We save a lot of money by living in a multi-generational household too. That used to be a more common occurance than it is now and it's financially more secure for everyone involved.
We don't watch much TV (although I'll admit to loving technology and the internet) and spend a lot of time together as a family and with our community. It's a good life. I don't even think of it as especially frugal most of the time. We do go out to eat now and then and DH and I have date nights out 2-3 times a week, sometimes just on a walk, sometimes for coffee and a treat or happy hour 1/2 price appetizers, sometimes to the chapel at church for some side-by-side prayer and meditation time after the kids are in bed. Dad is here, and he doesn't mind. In the summer we'll wake up before the kids sometimes and take our coffee out on the dock by the lake to watch the sunrise, or go canoeing, fishing or rollerblading in the evening. Our neighborhood has two pools, tennis courts, volleyball courts, a basketball court, gardens, walking paths, two duck ponds, a playground and a community sandbox that we take advantage of regularly. We go to the library weekly and between our neighborhood events (cooking clubs, book clubs, etc.) and church events there's always something going on. There's no deprivation involved. It's a full and rich life.
My mom, too, Buttermilksky. I remember we had a special freezer-pop tray (opaque white plastic) with reusable plastic sticks/stems, and mom would use both Kool-Aid and Tang, to make them. (Water, when money was tight). Grape was my favourite, because it had the most flavour. Must have made myself sick on it, because I run from grape, now. :laff:
At any rate, we reside in a small community, so the progression of modernity was slower to take hold and reach us (I'm positive about that), compared to say bigger, metro centres/cities/areas, but I often give thought to, when, change (from the old) began to happen. My guess is the late 80's, and it seems to me, it happened really fast. Like overnight fast.
Does anyone remember when cloth diapers started going by wayside in your area? Wasn't until the early 90's in our area, but up to that point, nearly everyone still used cloth diapers, and if you cloth diapered, you line-dried. It's as though it was a given, combining the two together. (Automatic like). You simply did not consider doing one without the other... Wasn't an option not too hang baby's pants up on the line.
Playpens... another (past era thing) I remember going by wayside by the mid- to late 80's. Why? I do not know, because to this day I still appreciate the convenience of using one.
Oh, and how about the half-measure in cloth diapering, where moms would sign-up for diaper service. We used to have one in our area in the 80's. Maybe not as frugal/traditional as the old-fashioned home-laundering method, but nevertheless, still frugal.
More later...
remember VBS in those days? Kool aid and sugar cookies for snacks, we thought it was great. Actual Bible stories and studing along with frugal crafts and games. No themes, other than Jesus and the Bible. No cheap, made in China craft supplies. Good times.
Fun post! I am the same age as many of you (b. 1961) and experienced a fine middle-class childhood doing exactly the same things! Friday night TV with The Partridge Family, Room 222, Love American Style, The Carol Burnett Show. On sleepover nights we'd watch Soul Train ~ I especially loved seeing Ike and Tina Turner (maybe that's why I sing blues and funk now)! For TV night we each got one bottle of coke and shared a half bags of chips between three kids. That was it for junk food. My dad was a tightwad and we never went out to eat, except maybe once a year. I got to go to McDonald's as a reward for passing a skating test. Sometimes we'd get to eat fast food on the day we'd return home from one of our epic family camping trips out west ~ my mom would insist she was too tired from days of driving to cook. And it felt like such a treat! Spending 35 cents on an ice cream when the Good Humor man drove around the neighborhood was heaven! Like others, we made our own popsicles too! There were endless games of hide-n-seek, Red Rover, play-acting, building forts and secret paths in the farmland and woods that surrounded our suburban neighborhood. Being outside ALL the time in the summer, being sweaty and dirty and not worrying about it. Reading, playing dolls, making doll house furniture, sewing costumes, pogo sticks, stilts, skateboards that had metal roller-skate-type wheels. I don't ever really remember being bored, either. Well, maybe for a moment until we dreamed up the next big scheme.
I love having the windows open in the summer; I am 50 and I have never had AC in any of the places I've lived except one sublet about 23 years ago! I've also never had a dishwasher, even though I grew up in a house that had one.
If I look at the whole picture of how things are today and what it was like growing up in the '60's, the lifestyle change is really shocking and makes me sad. To me, things really changed during the Reagan years when money and status and Yuppies became the things to aspire to. Yuk! I was a skin head punk rocker then and I am happy to say that even though I don't outwardly look much different than the average person out there now, I am still a rebel!
remember VBS in those days? Kool aid and sugar cookies for snacks, we thought it was great. Actual Bible stories and studing along with frugal crafts and games. No themes, other than Jesus and the Bible. No cheap, made in China craft supplies. Good times.
My kids VBS is still like that. We used to go to a bunch of our friends' VBS in addition to our own. Cheap babysitting, I think. :) My friend Andrew's church was on a big hill above the lake and the last day they had a slip-and-slide they made from a hose and some plastic stuff that went all the way down the hill. That was the BEST! Last year at our church they had a water fight and got to cream Father Johnson with pies. That was actually pretty awesome too.
My guess is the late 80's, and it seems to me, it happened really fast. Like overnight fast.
Yes, that is about when I think the shift happened too. I would have said maybe 1990, but that was also my shift from elementary school to middle school, so that may be partly why I perceive that year as being pivotal.
Mighty Frugal
3-18-12, 9:07pm
Thanks for this great thread! I had the exact same childhood as the rest of you. I was born in 1966 and I remember the early to mid 70s fondly. I too struggled to keep my heavy eyes open to watch The Carol Burnett show. I too was in LOVE with Keith Partridge (although I though his name was 'key' give me a break I was about 6 yrs old!)
thanks for the lovely trip down memory lane!
I like to think that I hold tight to the simpler lifestyle. We do use only one TV, have no Wii or Nintendo, play outdoors a lot, make our own cleaning supplies, etc.
Sure we are far more privileged than people were 40 years ago and what is a necessity today was a luxury back then (I NEED a dishwasher and air cond) but as each generation is born so are new 'necessities' eg 40 years ago a washroom was pretty much a necessity whereas 100 years before it was a luxury
I'm glad that I live in the here and now but that I can also try to live simpler-best of both worlds
Sad Eyed Lady
3-18-12, 9:10pm
remember VBS in those days? Kool aid and sugar cookies for snacks, we thought it was great. Actual Bible stories and studing along with frugal crafts and games. No themes, other than Jesus and the Bible. No cheap, made in China craft supplies. Good times.
Tenngal, I have brought that up to people myself several times. There seems to be the given idea that there is no VBS without having it themed with all the attending kits and supplies that cost quite a bit of money. (or so I have heard). Yes, we had VBS, during the day because most moms were home I guess, and we had cookies and kool aid too. I think the last day we had a bit more, maybe sandwiches someone's mom made. I remember it as lots of fun and friends and singing and being outside for part of it.
Buttermilksky
3-19-12, 8:51am
Oh gosh I was just talking about VBS yesterday because our paper had a huge Sunday section on camps/activities for kids for parents to check out/sign up for school summer break. I laughed because sweets were rare in my house and we loved VBS in part because of those Dixie cups of Kool-Aid and those cookies! (Except Nilla Wafers. Still get disappointed when I see a Nilla Wafer unless it's tucked into banana pudding).
My Mom kept everything we made at VBS. The crosses made by arranging burnt matchsticks. The Bible made from construction paper and a bar of Ivory soap. The two paper plates tied together with yarn, a roll of toitet paper cut in half between them (it was supposed to be a dressy tissue box for your Mom's cold cream removal. So chic!) and the ashtrays for Dad. Back then it was ok to make Dad an ashtray. Most Dads smoked. (As did Santa Claus and Mr Potato Head. The pipe police put the kibosh on them, though).
Except for spray paint I'm sure the supplies for the whole sweaty troop of us cost 5 bucks. But the church basement felt cool in the summer heat, the church ladies were so nice, and we got to take home dittoes with hymns on them to sing at home if we wanted to. I still remember having made a fish out of paper bags, string and sticks, "casting" all the way home singing,"I will make you fishers of men..." and feeling really, really cool.
crunchycon
3-19-12, 1:17pm
Oh, goodness, you all could be discussing my childhood...I grew up in a tiny town in the Midwest; in fact, there's a FB group I belong to that posts old pics of the town and everyone jumps on and reminisces. What I hear over and over is something to the effect that "I moved back to _____ so my kids could have the same childhood I had. It's still great here, but it's changed."
My mom and my BFF's mom ran the VBS and the Jr. Choir; I remember Mom dyeing rice with food coloring so we could glue it on little wooden placards to make religious pictures...mine was a fish, I think.
Another addition I'd like to add to this fun and enjoyable discussion, extended parenting. When we were young and growing, my mom and dad knew all of our friends, they also knew all of our friends parents, and all of our friends parents knew mom and dad. Whenever we went visiting friends at their homes, lunch was served as if you were a part of the family (your friends family), and a sense of controlled strictness prevailed to remind you that you were being watched (and cared for), and parents knew it back then.
I have the same relationship with several of my kids friends parents, and they with me, and I like that. I can pick-up the phone (anytime) and check-up on whomever, and the same holds true to those wanting to do the same on their end with me. It really helps form a solid sense of security and is something I swear by.
Buttermilksky
3-19-12, 1:36pm
We did the colored rice too! Like macaroni pictures the pieces fell off one by one but my mother still kept them hanging on the dining room wall--two pieces of pasta and lots of glue marks, or splotches of paint with bits of rice embedded. You can make a LOT of art for pennies, can't you?
To add, I did a lot of babysitting when I was younger, so I got to see (firsthand) the internal workings of many a family, and in those days moms stayed home. I don't remember there being a single household (where I babysat at) where spanking wasn't used, and as for all other things related to child-rearing (in those homes), the moms practiced everything my own mom did with me and my siblings. (Cloth diapering, bottle feeding, home-cooked meals/baking, etc).
My point being, I formed a connect to the likeness of my earlier days/years (the exposure to), making it easier and more simple for me to carry forth that learning (and all the practices involved) with my own family, because. Because that's what I remember (and had experience with), but with so many past frugal practices absent in today's homes, I can't help but think about the loss of skills associated with typical learned past, and the lack of preparedness I'm already seeing follow.
When my first child was born, family (immediate), were ready and waiting, and although I would never be so bold as to express that I knew everything related to taking care of and raising a baby, because I most definitely didn't, LOL!, but I did have a comfortable handle on it, and so it seems, so did the rest of my generation when it came to girly stuff and things. (That due in part to our upbringing).
So, what I did, to ensure a little frugal security and tradition in our family, was I trained-up my daughters (early on) on the domestic home-front, as to many of the ways of the old. It was my way of safeguarding a few things past and age old, so that they wouldn't be lost forever to a generational breakdown related to the lack of handed-down/passed-down knowledge and know-how I'm seeing nowadays, yet I often give thought to, how many other mothers my age, with kids my kids ages, practiced the same... Yet twenty- thirty years ago, it was standard.
My son put up a post on FB the other day, pining a little bit for our simpler days when he was growing up (he's 27 now). I had to remind him that those were the simpler days for him, not his parents. I worked 3 jobs and took the kids up on the mountain on my only day off to cut firewood. DW stayed home with 3 kids and a bunch of animals making countless trips into town, which was 14 miles away, to run them all around. It was HECTIC! In keeping with the OP, it was definitely a frugal time as much as anything because we didn't have two nickles to rub together. I wonder if my folks would look back on the sweet days of my childhood the same way?
I grew up in the late forties and early fifties and it was much like what's being described here. My mom, and most of my schoolmates' moms, did not hold jobs outside the home. In fact our next door neighbor's wife worked in a factory and it was practically a scandal.
How well I remember VBS! I don't remember Kool Aid and cookies, but I do remember all the cheap crafts we did - coloring, clay animals, outdoor games, et cetera. (Does anyone but me remember "Drop the Hankie"? For that matter, do people own hankies any more?) Now my current church goes nuts every year with a VBS theme and elaborate "stage settings", not to mention a long list of unhealthy snacks that the congregation is asked to donate every year. (I do not cooperate.)
My parents didn't have air conditioning either and we lived to tell about it. I can't remember if *anybody* in our little town did. Unfortunately, a lot of newer houses are built on the assumption that central air will be installed, so they aren't positioned well to take advantage of both sun and breezes nor are they surrounded by deciduous trees. The house I now own is just miserably hot in the summer.
I remember getting our first phone and that it was a party line. I watched my first few years of Howdy Doody on my aunt and uncle's set because they were richer than most, lived next door, and hardly anybody else in town had a TV. I remember putting entertaining ideas together with practically nothing, such as a friend and I setting up a play restaurant using appliance cartons and construction paper.
Yeah, the whole consumer thing got us somewhere along the line. For me, it was probably during my first marriage in the seventies when it was time to buy a house and act like an adult. Right-o.
We did VBS as well -- and it was simple. Usually just a children's bible of stories and then a craft that would go along with it, using things like paper plates, scraps of various sorts, and paint/crayons etc.
I always disliked VBS because i felt it was patronizing, but i had fun with the crafts.
I also enjoyed going to the swimming hole (though we would also go to the city pool which was inexpensive for a whole summer pass for the family). We would ride bikes and/or walk everywhere too.
I did go to a lot of movies as a kid. On my own from about 13 onwards -- watching what my parents would permit, of course. And sometimes i'd have to take my little sister too.
VBS. I think my favorite craft was when we made sheep out of a bar of soap and a dishcloth and straight pins to hold the rolled up dishcloth onto the bar of soap. Add a couple of googly eyes and there you go! Useful too when you were tired of playing with a bar of soap as a sheep you could take a bath....after removing those now banned from VBS and very dangerous straight pins.
VBS has become such a lot of work. We can't even get enough volunteers to offer a VBS more than every other year. Who really wants to spend three weeks building huge sets, developing the best themed snack bar, and supplying a craft room with elobrate crafts (though I do believe the year I had kids make shrinkydink bracelets (abstract/not themed) was a big hit.
Childhood - taking off on the horses and meeting up at the hidden meadow with other neighborhood kids. OK our neighborhood was kids from 10 farms and ranches none smaller than 350 acres and closest neighbor I had was 2 miles away. We'd ride all day and into the night through everyones farms, through the creeks, woods, and country roads . We all nearly died many times and our moms always welcomed us home with lemonade and a "did ya'll have fun?".
Most of my toys were animals - chickens, rabbits, sheep, calves, horses, dogs, an occassional cat. Dad built us a life-size TeePee in one of the back fields. He didn't mind us taking off on one of the smaller tractors or one of the farm trucks to go exploring.
Family vacation every summer was an extended car trip and camping.
Someone was always having a BBQ, fish-fry, pot-luck, or picnic (not many restaurant meals), lots of friends always getting together. HUGE family reunions (200 + people).
Childhood in the early 70's just seemed like a time of no fear and endless summers and parents with time to build bonfires.
It's interesting to me to read this thread. I grew up in the 70s (born in 67) in central Denver in an older urban but suburbanish neighborhood. Like so many have described, I loved it. Basically spent the summer out running around the neighborhood (or skating around on my roller skates, or biking around...) which was great. I knew all the kids that lived within a 10 block radius and we would get together and have a lot of fun together. If I were to have kids I would want them to have the same life.
I have to say, though, that that wonderous time of life was not always the way it was. My parents grew up in the great depression. Mom, especially, grew up on a farm in western Kansas during the dustbowl. She learned to HATE the great outdoors and to LOVE all the great things that developed after the end of the depression. After her childhood suffering through the dirt and grime of the dustbowl she literally never wanted to be outside again. The joy of a picnic was lost on her. Opening the windows of the house (or car) to let in fresh air were lost on her. When they retired she and dad moved to a condo with no cross ventilation but the a/c was paid for by the condo association. THey never opened a window again.
And she was thrilled with all of the great modern things that came after the depression ended. Like fish-sticks. And tv dinners. And canned vegetebles. And mashed potato flakes... (I didn't realize that fresh veggies existed until I got to college) Yet, she was very frugal about all of these things, using coupons and all that (and only turning on the a/c in the mid afternoon when we had to pay for it.)
I'm not 100% sure where I'm trying to go with this except to say that there's a difference between being frugal as a choice (my childhood in the 70s) and being frugal to survive (mom's childhood in the 30s/40s).
It is interesting what you say, JP.
There is, of course, simplicity by necessity (much of where I find myself) and also simplicity by choice. My preference is always for 'by choice' -- but I can learn a lot 'by necessity.'
Part of the issue is that prior to year X, things like air con didn't exist. Here in NZ, central air/heating is rare. It's in office buildings, but not common in homes. Yes, here in 2012. This is just how it is here. It exists, but it's expensive and most people don't see the point of putting it into your home! I don't know if it's poverty (necessity), choice or culture, but it is what it is, i guess. :)
So, we can say that we can choose A/C now when we couldnt' before, and so now for us it is simplicity as a choice -- just as before it was simplicity because there were no other options.
I have to say, though, that that wonderous time of life was not always the way it was. My parents grew up in the great depression. Mom, especially, grew up on a farm in western Kansas during the dustbowl. She learned to HATE the great outdoors and to LOVE all the great things that developed after the end of the depression. After her childhood suffering through the dirt and grime of the dustbowl she literally never wanted to be outside again. The joy of a picnic was lost on her. Opening the windows of the house (or car) to let in fresh air were lost on her. When they retired she and dad moved to a condo with no cross ventilation but the a/c was paid for by the condo association. THey never opened a window again.
And she was thrilled with all of the great modern things that came after the depression ended. Like fish-sticks. And tv dinners. And canned vegetebles. And mashed potato flakes... (I didn't realize that fresh veggies existed until I got to college) Yet, she was very frugal about all of these things, using coupons and all that (and only turning on the a/c in the mid afternoon when we had to pay for it.)
My Mom grew up right down the road from yours jp1, in northwest Oklahoma. She went from being a rancher's daughter to being a rancher's wife so didn't really have an option to stay inside, but I don't think it would have bothered her. Funny what you say about processed food, to my Mom that was the ultimate luxury. We raised beef and had a huge garden so a meal of steak, potatoes and veggies was as good as you would get anywhere, but that was a boring, Tuesday night dinner at our house. On Friday Mom would cut loose with those same fish sticks. We weren't Catholic, it was just her excuse to have them. Sunday was almost always some concoction made with packaged noodles, several cans of something and lots of Tater-Tots on top! A total carbo/starch bomb, but it was exotic to us.
Buttermilksky
3-20-12, 10:44am
I didn't realize that VBS had gone sparkle. Oh well, they're competing with Wii and 3-D. If it gets kids thoughts turning toward God, that's a good thing.
I agree that our parents loved the conveniences that the middle of the 20th century made possible. Vaccinations & anti-biotics, washing machines that did the work of spinning the water out so you didn't have to work clothes through the ringer (everyone I knew had those in the early 60's. The reverse lever saved many, many arms if you accidentally started getting wrung yourself) and permanent press fabric.
I'm grateful today for cell phones which are a blessing every time you or a loved one has to drive after dark or in bad weather or in dicey areas. The medicines & procedures today that were unthought of fifty years ago. (Uncle Chester has a knot on his shoulder? No "exploratory surgery." Chester just gets fed into an MRI, gets told it's nothing and to just buy bigger shirts). Most especially things like Amber Alerts and programs that help abused women & kids get help, and enable us to spot & report animal abuse.
My father was born early in the 20th century, in an isolated area of the Blue Ridge. The best invention of his life was the Model T. Once cars replaced horses as transportation and means of trucking goods, he no longer had to see animals straining under their loads, baking in the sun, skinny and worn. My mother was younger, but was born before the Depression. She saw so many people (kids, adults) pass away from TB, infection, diabetes, "heart trouble" and fever. She was so grateful she could prevent us from having German measles or polio.
Every generation gets the good & the ugly. Like the old quote says,"There has never been a good time to have children." Yep. Once parents literally circled the wagons, now they install nanny ware on the computers.
I'm buoyed by the fact that kids can still adapt if they have to. Once we lost power during a hurricane and my kid used the last of his battery power to text a friend by flashlight. Little trouper.
It's interesting, thinking about being frugal by choice or not. One of the things I've pondered lately is that virtually all cars today have a/c. Back when I was a kid in the 70s only fancy cars had it and everyone else just rolled down the windows. (and no, they didn't push a button like most of us do today, they cranked them down by hand. Oh, the effort...) I've noticed, though, that driving with the windows down today results in that awful buffeting noise that hurts one's ears. Just this week on cartalk they addressed this. Apparently the buffeting noise really is worse today, a result of cars being made much more aerodynamic, so that a rolled down window now makes for a much less pleasant ride than it did back in the old days. The result being that everyone uses the a/c in their cars much more today, instead of just when it's really hot out.
ApatheticNoMore
3-21-12, 12:49am
I've done the car without air conditioning thing for long periods of time I guess (and yes even at times when I had long hour plus each way commutes). I arrived home burning up and exhausted, would lay down and cool down. It took a recovery period to get my temperature back to normal. I have A/C now, I still drive a car with no power windows, no power doors, but that's all just less stuff to break, at least it has an A/C.
VBS has become such a lot of work. We can't even get enough volunteers to offer a VBS more than every other year. Who really wants to spend three weeks building huge sets, developing the best themed snack bar, and supplying a craft room with elobrate crafts (though I do believe the year I had kids make shrinkydink bracelets (abstract/not themed) was a big hit.
My church offers it every year and tries to involve neighborhood kids as well. I've thought about volunteering, but I get tired just listening to all the plans for elaborate themes, backdrops, et cetera. Someone different takes responsibility every year. I suspect doing it once is enough to result in VBS burnout.
I was thinking about the games we played. We played jacks on the front porch for hours every morning because it was cool and shady there. We played hopscotch with many vatiations. Jump rope, paddle ball, hula hoops, roller skates with a key to adjust the fit, bicycles, marbles. Then there was the weekly trip to the library; I remember the bookmobile coming to the elementary school. Lots of inexpensive fun that burned off lots of calories--no wonder we were all skinny.
I grew up in 60's (born 1959) and everything that you all wrote was my same experience. I have been thinking a lot about health and weight issues lately and how things have changed through the years. When I was a child, I was the heaviest kid in my class (girl) but by today's standards I was almost thin! I look at the kids in my sons' classes and am shocked at how heavy the kids are, some downright obese even in 3rd and 5th grade. I grew up on the standard american diet: cereal with milk and banana for breakfast (pancakes or bacon/eggs on the weekend), white bread bologna sandwich with apple and two cookies for lunch, and a dinner with a protein, a starch and a veggie with canned fruit for dessert. We had a bottle of water in the fridge chilling to drink at all times, had milk with lunch and koolaid or soda on very rare occasions. After school my Mom would make either soda crackers with peanut butter or maybe a grilled cheese. Seems like a lot of carbs in retrospect, but everyone was thin by today's standards! We got a hamburger or pizza maybe once a month if we were lucky. Sometimes I think I should just go back to eating how we did in the 60s...But it's hard. Today I got a hankering for "cowboy beans", which was essentially ground hamburger cooked into pork and beans with a dollop of ketchup or BBQ sauce. In the store reached for "Grilling Beans" and nearly bought them instead of the old reliable, Van Camps pork and beans. Well imagine my surprise...they were equal in terms of protein and fat...but the Van Camps had 110 cal and 7g of sugar per 1/2 cup..the Grilling Beans had 180 calories and 21g of sugar per 1/2 cup. Since I could easily eat a cup, that would have been 140 calories 28g of sugar more per serving had I not checked. No wonder we didn't see the obesity then that we have now...Kim
I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if it's been mentioned, but many parents today wouldn't dream of letting their kids just play outside unsupervised. Even I don't with my Grandkids...it is, sadly a different world. And also, back then, we had neighborhood playmates...there were kids! Nowadays the nearest kid can be a couple of blocks away. My block has one family with children.
I grew up in 60's (born 1959) and everything that you all wrote was my same experience. I have been thinking a lot about health and weight issues lately and how things have changed through the years. When I was a child, I was the heaviest kid in my class (girl) but by today's standards I was almost thin! I look at the kids in my sons' classes and am shocked at how heavy the kids are, some downright obese even in 3rd and 5th grade. I grew up on the standard american diet: cereal with milk and banana for breakfast (pancakes or bacon/eggs on the weekend), white bread bologna sandwich with apple and two cookies for lunch, and a dinner with a protein, a starch and a veggie with canned fruit for dessert. We had a bottle of water in the fridge chilling to drink at all times, had milk with lunch and koolaid or soda on very rare occasions. After school my Mom would make either soda crackers with peanut butter or maybe a grilled cheese. Seems like a lot of carbs in retrospect, but everyone was thin by today's standards! We got a hamburger or pizza maybe once a month if we were lucky. Sometimes I think I should just go back to eating how we did in the 60s...But it's hard. Today I got a hankering for "cowboy beans", which was essentially ground hamburger cooked into pork and beans with a dollop of ketchup or BBQ sauce. In the store reached for "Grilling Beans" and nearly bought them instead of the old reliable, Van Camps pork and beans. Well imagine my surprise...they were equal in terms of protein and fat...but the Van Camps had 110 cal and 7g of sugar per 1/2 cup..the Grilling Beans had 180 calories and 21g of sugar per 1/2 cup. Since I could easily eat a cup, that would have been 140 calories 28g of sugar more per serving had I not checked. No wonder we didn't see the obesity then that we have now...Kim
Very good point! I'm trying as much as possible to eat foods closest to the source. I think salad dressings are one of my biggest weaknesses. And croutons and mayo. All easy to make, but I like the processed ones. I think it's telling that I don't care as much for the homemade dressing as the processed kind...the 'homogeonized" kind.
loosechickens
3-22-12, 11:35pm
"I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if it's been mentioned, but many parents today wouldn't dream of letting their kids just play outside unsupervised. Even I don't with my Grandkids...it is, sadly a different world." (Tiam)
------------------------------------------------
It's true that parents no longer let their children play outside the way we did when young, but it really is NOT a different world, we only perceive danger differently, probably due to 24/7 news channels, and the media pumping constant "danger", "danger" stories into our lives. Because FACTS on crime, and the facts of stranger danger to children is actually LESS today than it was in those days.
What has changed is far more involved with our perceptions of danger, our generalized anxiety and fears, rather than the actual fact of children being more endangered. In fact, since kids today are openly talked to about "good touch, bad touch", etc., they are probably best protected ever from where they really ARE in danger, molestation by family members, babysitters, pastors, neighbors, etc.
We have huge amounts of "stranger danger" fears, but the facts do not support that. Quite the opposite, although it's almost impossible to swim against the tide of all the people who truly believe "it's a different world now", and "it's just not safe, like it was when I was a child". One child out of many millions is the victim of a criminal and twenty or thirty million children have their freedom to play outside restricted.....although honestly, the dangers to them from obesity, lack of exercise, junk food, etc., are more likely to shorten their lives than any criminal. Sad, but true.
Planet Money has addressed this very concept, our inability to accurately assess real danger, a couple of times. A couple of random points. How many people worry about dying every time they get in their car, compared to the number of people who are very nervous about flying on planes. yet per passenger mile planes are MUCH safer then cars. Not to mention that most people also drive many more miles per year than they fly, further compounding the difference in risk. Or even more extreme, how many people are terrified about sharks attacking them when they go in the water at the beach. Yet, people are much more likely to simply drown at the beach, which can happen every day, not just when there's a shark there (since there's water at the beach every day but sharks, only rarely...)
The problem is that crazy freak things, like a child who actually gets abducted by a stranger (as opposed to a child that gets abducted by a parent stealing the kid from the other parent who has custody) or a person getting attacked by a shark, or a plane crashing, are exceedingly rare. Because they are rare they make the news. Bigtime. But a car crash that kills a couple of people? meh. That's not news. That happens every day.
I'm not so concerned about stranger danger, and the 'new' material on the matter has us teaching our children to trust their instincts and ask for help if they feel threatened -- to ask a near-by neighbor, shop keeper, or even a random person on the street. And, there are methods on how to do this, so that if you do feel threatened by a stranger, you can go to another unthreatening, helpful stranger and get the help that you need.
In addition, instead of good/bad touch, there is a similar two part method to protect children: 1. teaching them the correct anatomical names for their bodies; and 2. teahcing them that their bodies are theirs -- their whole bodies -- and that they can explore them themselves, and that they can say no to ANY touch from ANYONE at ANY TIME. That means just because gramma wants to kiss them, you do not have to accept the kiss just to make gramma happy. Just because it may be common to hug good bye doesn't mean you have to hug mama if you don't want to.
We ask, for example, if we can give him a kiss goodnight, or a snuggle, or a hug -- we don't demand them, we dont take them from him. And, we have boundaries on our own bodies "Please do not touch me there" for example or "that is enough, mommy needs a rest and not to be touched right now."
Truthfully, forcing children to accept touch (and tickling is probably the worst -- he dictates that game to us) is an aspect of grooming them toward abuse, as well as setting aside their own desires, instincts, and feelings around their own bodies.
After that, you just have to hope for the best. Hope that the freak accident doesn't happen to your child.
Also, parents here -- it's a bit more old-school. Older children watch younger children, and parents watch all children -- and so do our seniors. Everyone is watching out for children all the time.
(still, it makes me nervous. i don't like to have him out of sight unless he's with someone whom i trust implicitly.)
Also, parents here -- it's a bit more old-school. Older children watch younger children, and parents watch all children -- and so do our seniors. Everyone is watching out for children all the time
That's more common in my neighborhood too. My older kids run around unsupervised with the rest of the neighborhood kids. They are like packs of wolves. :) It's cute. My younger kids are far too young for that, and I'm pretty sure would have been considered too young for that always (ages 2 and 1), but the 12 year old neighbor girl and my big girls will occasionally take them for walks in the stroller. My neighborhood has lots of walking paths away from streets, so the kids stick to those when they have the little ones.
There's a group of 10-18 year old boys who play football together in the street every afternoon, moving when cars need to get through. I love watching them. It's like the arrival of the robins, one of the first signs of spring.
"I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if it's been mentioned, but many parents today wouldn't dream of letting their kids just play outside unsupervised. Even I don't with my Grandkids...it is, sadly a different world." (Tiam)
------------------------------------------------
It's true that parents no longer let their children play outside the way we did when young, but it really is NOT a different world, we only perceive danger differently, probably due to 24/7 news channels, and the media pumping constant "danger", "danger" stories into our lives. Because FACTS on crime, and the facts of stranger danger to children is actually LESS today than it was in those days.
What has changed is far more involved with our perceptions of danger, our generalized anxiety and fears, rather than the actual fact of children being more endangered. In fact, since kids today are openly talked to about "good touch, bad touch", etc., they are probably best protected ever from where they really ARE in danger, molestation by family members, babysitters, pastors, neighbors, etc.
We have huge amounts of "stranger danger" fears, but the facts do not support that. Quite the opposite, although it's almost impossible to swim against the tide of all the people who truly believe "it's a different world now", and "it's just not safe, like it was when I was a child". One child out of many millions is the victim of a criminal and twenty or thirty million children have their freedom to play outside restricted.....although honestly, the dangers to them from obesity, lack of exercise, junk food, etc., are more likely to shorten their lives than any criminal. Sad, but true.
All true. But when I said "It's a different world" I didn't mean it's a more dangerous world; I meant there are fewer kids, so there are the swarms of kids on the street all in one neighborhood to play. The Mom's are not stay at home moms. The appeals of outside pale next to the newest new electronic marvel and game and so, kids spend less time outside. If I just let my grandson play outside unattended, the bareness alone of the neighborhood would probably lead him right back in, or wandering aimlessly instead of finding a friend or activity to do. He wouldn't just be able to go outside, find a friend, go to a friends mom's house and have a cookie, play, move on to another house. Nowadays on my street there are few kids, fewer parents present to interact with, and less inviting things to do outside.
So much of life back then was facilitated by one income, two parent families where the mother stayed at home. I don't want to be too nostalgic because for some (many? most?) people the simplicity was a function of just not having much money rather than an intentional lifestyle choice.
Mighty Frugal
3-26-12, 12:23pm
"I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if it's been mentioned, but many parents today wouldn't dream of letting their kids just play outside unsupervised. Even I don't with my Grandkids...it is, sadly a different world." (Tiam)
------------------------------------------------
It's true that parents no longer let their children play outside the way we did when young, but it really is NOT a different world, we only perceive danger differently, probably due to 24/7 news channels, and the media pumping constant "danger", "danger" stories into our lives. Because FACTS on crime, and the facts of stranger danger to children is actually LESS today than it was in those days.
What has changed is far more involved with our perceptions of danger, our generalized anxiety and fears, rather than the actual fact of children being more endangered. In fact, since kids today are openly talked to about "good touch, bad touch", etc., they are probably best protected ever from where they really ARE in danger, molestation by family members, babysitters, pastors, neighbors, etc.
We have huge amounts of "stranger danger" fears, but the facts do not support that. Quite the opposite, although it's almost impossible to swim against the tide of all the people who truly believe "it's a different world now", and "it's just not safe, like it was when I was a child". One child out of many millions is the victim of a criminal and twenty or thirty million children have their freedom to play outside restricted.....although honestly, the dangers to them from obesity, lack of exercise, junk food, etc., are more likely to shorten their lives than any criminal. Sad, but true.
Yes, but that won't change my mind. I need to always have my eyes on my boys (6 and 7 yr olds). I never let them play unsupervised. Sure it's one in a million but when you hear about the news report about Tori Stafford (who lived abut 2 hours away) it sickens me and just reinforces my neurosis.
We live in a child friendly street walking distance to a park. Kids WITH parents meet up daily. My boys run about a lot and are both slender. They also play in our front garden catching crickets and potato bugs but I sit on the front porch.
I may let them play in our fenced locked backyard alone but I check often through the kitchen window.
I understand we are far more likely to be killed in a car crash so I try to drive responsibly. For me, it's control the controllable. I can't prevent all illnesses and tragedies but if I can do something (like keep my eyes on them while out in public) then I will
I grew up in India and it was awesome....school, tea time, naps in the afternoon, homework, dinner, and then some black and white tv show. When we moved here, we all slept on the floor with lots of blankets until my parents had enough money to buy furniture. My mom cooked from scratch every day, we got one gift on our birthday, two for Diwali. We didn't have much, but it was ok. Now, my mother is an extreme consumer, my father is still frugal, and I love to save money as much as I can.
Over the weekend, Matt's youngest son was here and was letting us know that his beloved xbox died. His birthday was a couple of weeks ago and we had given him $50. He wanted us to get him a new xbox and he didn't think that $25 from each of us was sufficient enough as a present for a 16 year old! I let him know that we had some yard work to do and that he could make some extra money helping....he wanted $300 for an hour's worth of work! Wow.....I remember being 16 and rebellious, but never in a million years did I expect my parents to just get me everything I wanted. My father told me that if my allowance was not satisfactory, then I could get a job and save up for it!
I am scared about the kids these days....all these expectations....real life is going to really mess them up!
Dang citrine! That is ridiculous! I'm so glad you and Matt didn't cave to his demand. It's interesting to hear about your childhood in India too. I love hearing how people in other countries live.
I agree that some kids' expectations have gotten out of hand. I was at a birthday party about a week ago and an 11 year old kid interrupted his mom, who was holding a baby and talking to another adult, to demand that she make him a taco from the taco bar. WTH? Get your own ****ed taco kid. Your mom is busy. If your 6 year old brother can do it, so can you. Sorry. That sounds a little "get off my lawn" but, really. To his mom's credit, she told him no, and more politely than I was thinking it. :)
Hmm, this is a interesting discussion. I was very aware of the fact that we did not have any money to spare growing up. My folks were very frugal, but we had a large family. It really affected my thinking as an adult too. My DH and I live on very little, but it's by choice. I would hate to be forced to do it though. IMO, that isn't very much fun. We were mostly FI and before we even had children. Now, I'm raising my kid much in the same way I did growing up. I am now a SAHP and we live on a modest amount (our expenses run around 20K a year and that includes some fluff we could cut out). The big difference is that we are funding college and if my kid wants to take gymanstics or tennis or piano lessons we will let her and it won't break the bank.
Yes, but that won't change my mind. I need to always have my eyes on my boys (6 and 7 yr olds). I never let them play unsupervised. Sure it's one in a million but when you hear about the news report about Tori Stafford (who lived abut 2 hours away) it sickens me and just reinforces my neurosis.
We live in a child friendly street walking distance to a park. Kids WITH parents meet up daily. My boys run about a lot and are both slender. They also play in our front garden catching crickets and potato bugs but I sit on the front porch.
I may let them play in our fenced locked backyard alone but I check often through the kitchen window.
I understand we are far more likely to be killed in a car crash so I try to drive responsibly. For me, it's control the controllable. I can't prevent all illnesses and tragedies but if I can do something (like keep my eyes on them while out in public) then I will
Back in the early 70s when I was starting elementary school my parents spent a fair amount of time teaching me to take care of myself. I can remember my dad taking my across the street to the nearest pay phone every once in a while when I was just 4 or 5 and we would call my mother at home. Sometimes we'd use a dime. Sometimes we'd call collect. To me at the time it was great fun surprising her with a phone call when we had been with her a minute earlier. Obviously now I realize that the purpose was to teach me how to call home if I ever needed to even if I was too young to be carrying a dime. And I can also remember being trusted to walk myself to and from kindergarten (4 blocks from home and across one busy street.) By the second half of kindergarten I had a playdate with a friend a number of blocks from our house and I was trusted to walk there by myself. Mom wrote the address on a piece of paper so I wouldn't forget, and I had to call once I got there. Once I was in second grade I could pretty much go where I wanted to as long as I was home by dinnertime and by dark in the evening. In the summer I would leave the house in the morning and often not be home again until dinner time because there was lots to do! (after calling to let mom know I had been invited to so and so's house for lunch). And every other kid I knew had the same freedom. While certainly there was risk in letting me do this, I'm glad that I was given the chance to gain some controlled independence. WOuld I do the same now if I had children? I'm not sure. Part of the reason that it worked for me is that I was always part of a large gaggle of kids. It wasn't like I was out wandering the streets alone. And more often then not we were in/around one of our houses or traveling between them. If anything bad had happened someone would've run to the nearest of our houses and gotten someone's parent. The freedom was more that there just wasn't any structure for where we were or any requirement that everyone's parents knew where we were at any given moment. It was always assumed on their part that we were "somewhere near one of our houses". And since we all lived within a couple of blocks of each other that was a pretty safe assumption. From what the parents today have said on this thread it sounds like my kid would be something of a loner trying to live my childhood lifestyle today.
I don't think it's always a choice. Many kids are single children. Many are from single parent homes. There is no SAHM. Having homemade meals and family time is often the last thing to happen. Nowadays it's a lack of time, chronic lack of sleep, over scheduled days, lack of contact with children. It's not just one thing.
Bump!
Such a fun thread this was... so worth resurrecting.
Additions anyone?
miradoblackwarrior
10-18-12, 10:34am
Hi--
I love this thread, so I wanted to add to it. When I was a kid, lo these many years ago, my 25 cent allowance bought me a weekly Zero bar, grape Royal Crown, and a comic book. That was a perfect end to a perfect week of roaming around, alone, no parentals, in a safe environment. We spent the summers near a lake, where we could swim, alone, no parentals. We could be safe because everybody watched out for everybody else. Mom had a special whistle, and, if we didn't hear it, someone would say "Your mother's calling!" We'd go home right away because that was how we were taught. No back talk, no acting out, and no cursing.
We also got exactly one channel on a little black and white in the corner. If it rained, we watched scratchy baseball games from alien places like St. Louis, New York, or Los Angeles. Never movies (the reception stunk). No other kinds of shows. Just baseball, and just when it rained. Otherwise, we were out playing our own games out in the yard.
Thinking about all of this now makes me want to revisit the simplicity of those times. Sure, I didn't have to work, just show up for meals and do my chores for my simple "reward." We didn't go out to eat, nor did we eat "store-boughten" food, like pizza or hamburgers. We weren't poor--Dad made a good salary. It simply never occurred to us that we were being frugal.
Susan
Love your entry, MDBW!
How right you are re: how everyone watched out for everyone back then. When we were kids you couldn't pry us from outside activities/things, whereas nowadays you can't pry kids out of the house.
I don't remember what we used to get for an allowance, but we always felt that we had hit the jackpot with our two-bits/fifty cents in hand! LOL!
Sadly, we were rather poor, so everything on the side of frugality/simplicity, was a necessity in our home.
Echoing a couple of posts here, the thing I remember most fondly about growing up in the early sixties was the abundance of unstructured time. I got home from school at about three, and the time from then until dinner was mine to roam about the neighborhood as I pleased. And summers were pure bliss--ten weeks of unsupervised play. The area I grew up in was rapidly being overtaken by tract housing, but there were still good-sized patches of undeveloped land around, and we kids took full advantage, playing soldiers in the woods, building forts, etc. I'm childless, but one of the things I noticed as I watched my friends raise kids over the past 30 years was how much of their time was structured and monitored by adults. I think the current generation of parents feels that if they don't give their kids every possible competitive edge, they're somehow failing, even if that means depriving the kids of many of the indolent pleasures of childhood. (Maybe they're right, and if I'd had a more regimented childhood I'd be a corporate titan or a brain surgeon. But I doubt it made much difference then, and I expect it doesn't make much difference now.)
Sure, there's danger involved in letting kids roam around unsupervised. But eliminating all danger from life would mean never leaving your house (or never leaving your bed, and even that's not foolproof). Of course, our parents also let us ride bikes without helmets and ride in the passenger seat of cars. It's a miracle we survived ;).
What wonderful childhoods so many of you had. I am so envious.
My branch of the family relocated from NJ to urban Tampa, in the late 70's. As a child, we had an empty city lot that we used to play ball in that was adjacent to our house. (My parents had a HUD home built, part of probably the earlier days of 1st time buyer/neighborhood revitalization which later made us a target for many breakins.. I digress). We used to skate, bike, and play in the city ditches (yuck, probably not the healthiest thing to do) and look for tadpoles. It was a good child hood.
I will have to say that the fun stopped abruptly after we were broken into several times, including after Christmas - twice. And then another time, after we returned from grandparent's house out of state. They even stole my 50 cent pieces from my bedroom closet. How can you steal from a child? :( We installed security lights and window bars. They just got more creative. Then, one of the final straw, was one afternoon with my brother and I playing out front. My dad was cleaning a gutter on the front corner of the house (within line of vision of us). And, two middle aged scruffy men in an old, larger car attempted to abduct me. Fortunately, an elderly man that rarely spoke to us (he was in his 90's) happened to be sitting on his front step in a rocking chair. He got up and yelled at them, scaring them off. He was most definitely my angel, and it was one of few times I ever recall him talking. My parents got a front fence installed (after already having privacy in the backyard, which people just jumped over or climbed) but basically, our little world got smaller and smaller. I even woke once to a man by my window trying to break through the bars. So, they sold that house and moved us to the suburbs, where dad was working (as a contractor) anyway.
There, I had some freedom. My brother and I could walk/bike to school, go to the pool alone, there were huge ballfields just down the street. I could ride across the highway to the other side of the neighborhood. From one end to the other was about 7 miles in (14 miles round trip) to visit dad on the job site but it was fun.
I wonder at times if it is a different world or if the media and people (in general) just report or are more hyper vigilant regarding suspect behavior these days, to where we just hear about it more. It's a mixed bag, as I currently live in a neighborhood much like the suburbia that we later came from. There was the occasional thing that happened, but it was not rampant. And we have that here, too. In fact, our 9 year old just went to the park down the road, with a friend (the father is right there) and I STILL watched son walk to the friend's dad. Our daughter will turn 12 soon, qualifies to take Babysitting certification yet I will only let her stay home alone in small increments. I'm not a 'helicopter parent' yet I am more cautious than my parents were with me. It's something to ponder. Our children are also very small for their age. Daughter is one of the shortest in her entire grade and is often mistaken for a 3rd grader (she's in middle school). So while her friends tower over here and are at my shoulder (if not my height), she's maybe 60 pounds wet and very short. Our son is, as well. They have great awareness, and are doing all of those right things. However, I do think that my personal experience growing up (and there's something else that occured) coupled with the kids short stature has affected my choices (and this is a mutual thing with husband) in how much freedom we give them.
They are absolutely able to play in front and back yard together. And when we go to the homestead (10 acres), they have free reign in the fields (we do not allow them in the woods alone, because it's a warm climate - a lot of snakes).
Mostly, we hear about it more. But it certainly puts the fear of god in you.
After a ton of fussing about whether or not to move, we happened up on a beautiful cottage on about an acre of land, about a 10 minute drive from the center of town. It's not only two bedrooms, full bath with hardwood floors and wood burning stove, but it also has an active beehive and a chicken coop ready for us. compost already sorted too, and gas hot water and cooking, solar power! rent is the same as our current place, and 3 minute walk to the beach. Garden beds ready for planting! good lawdy!
Desire? yes. LOL
Part of that desire is the ability to just let DS outside and feel confident that he is ok playing out in this massive, fenced yard. And DH noted "we could get a dog!" he wants DS to have a "lassie" experience. LOL
anyway, yeah. . . idyll.
Mostly, we hear about it more. But it certainly puts the fear of god in you.
After a ton of fussing about whether or not to move, we happened up on a beautiful cottage on about an acre of land, about a 10 minute drive from the center of town. It's not only two bedrooms, full bath with hardwood floors and wood burning stove, but it also has an active beehive and a chicken coop ready for us. compost already sorted too, and gas hot water and cooking, solar power! rent is the same as our current place, and 3 minute walk to the beach. Garden beds ready for planting! good lawdy!
Desire? yes. LOL
Part of that desire is the ability to just let DS outside and feel confident that he is ok playing out in this massive, fenced yard. And DH noted "we could get a dog!" he wants DS to have a "lassie" experience. LOL
anyway, yeah. . . idyll.
So when are you moving into this new location? It sounds lovely.
Ditto.. It sounds like a special place.
So when are you moving into this new location? It sounds lovely.
Echoing a couple of posts here, the thing I remember most fondly about growing up in the early sixties was the abundance of unstructured time.
I have always loved having lots of unstructured time. Now that I'm middle aged I love it just as much as I did as a kid. I would've absolutely hated being a kid if being a kid had meant CONSTANTLY having to be Doing Something Productive. I have friends now that can't quite understand it when they ask what I did over the weekend and my reply is "Nothing. It was great!" When I say that I don't mean that I sat and stared at the walls all weekend. (although once in a while I do that too...) I mean that I bumbled around in the kitchen and made an omelette with CSA veggies for breakfast. Then I took a walk down to the ocean. Then I went to the library and picked up my reserved books. Then I came home and took a nap. THen I read one of my new library books for a while, etc. I did plenty. Just none of it noteworthy enough to be interesting to other people. Hence the response "Nothing. It was great!"
Wildflower
10-18-12, 11:22pm
I have so enjoyed reading this thread. Just happened upon it tonight. The OP described what my childhood was like, of which I have so many fond memories. My own kids experienced a pretty simple upbringing as well, and I watch with pride how that carries over into their own lives today.
My best childhood memory is lying on a blanket under our shady backyard trees with a glass of ice tea on a 100 degree day, with a pile of library books beside me, all waiting to be read. I was an avid reader as a child, and with no TV or air conditioning it was my greatest pleasure to be outside reading a book and hopefully catching a breeze....
Tussiemussies
10-18-12, 11:38pm
Mostly, we hear about it more. But it certainly puts the fear of god in you.
After a ton of fussing about whether or not to move, we happened up on a beautiful cottage on about an acre of land, about a 10 minute drive from the center of town. It's not only two bedrooms, full bath with hardwood floors and wood burning stove, but it also has an active beehive and a chicken coop ready for us. compost already sorted too, and gas hot water and cooking, solar power! rent is the same as our current place, and 3 minute walk to the beach. Garden beds ready for planting! good lawdy!
Desire? yes. LOL
Part of that desire is the ability to just let DS outside and feel confident that he is ok playing out in this massive, fenced yard. And DH noted "we could get a dog!" he wants DS to have a "lassie" experience. LOL
anyway, yeah. . . idyll.
Glad for you Zoe!!! Sounds so nice and perfect for your wants and needs! :)
ToomuchStuff
10-19-12, 12:52am
SimplyL, sounds like you and I lived somewhat similarly. I had a conversation with a kid today, who could have been my step-kid at one point in time. When I grew up, I was abducted and this was in the days before "Adam/Amber" alerts, where you had to be gone for 24 hours. (some recently released from juve kids, decided it would be fun to take me away) This was out of our large back yard and while I wasn't taken far, it did have an effect. We were no longer allowed out when parents weren't around (at our house anyway), so tv became the babysitter They sent us to a private school, because of knives and such in the local public elementary school. Later we moved when they didn't have room for my older brother in their Jr. high school, so I changed districts, went from having friends, to none, and my prison became more internal. As kids we were drug along, and one of the places I remember as a kid, later made news due to a local serial killer. (and I think he had the only booth I used to go into) As I got older, I learned to pretend with people as I was taught more, not to trust them, so I didn't develop a lot of friends. Unfortunately the ones I knew (my age) were more female then male (grandparents area, by where I used to live). Taught quite a few things that I think have been to my detriment, because so many of them are more to the point of extreme self reliance, I have become somewhat of my own worst enemy.
The high school I ended up in, made me wish I had started in the elementary school that they sent us away from. (had both a knife to my throat and a pistol to my stomach in it).
I have seen a lot, and been told a lot in my life. I know we hear about it more today then we did before (proliferation of media), but when your in a cesspool, it seems like an ocean, and you think it is normal. I have NO idea what normal is, or should be.
Tussiemussies
10-19-12, 12:59am
Too much stuff I am so very sorry for all that you went through. Iope you can find peace and normality in your life.
Christine
Enjoying all the stories (a lot).
HappyHiker
10-24-12, 7:50pm
Enjoying your stories, too! Sometimes I think I was lucky to have one of the last innocent childhoods. Grew up in a suburb of Phila. in a row house development in the 1950's-60's. Three kids, two parents in a tiny house with 1 bathroom, which made for interesting mornings getting ready for school.
So much simpler then. Parents sitting outside during hot summer nights, listening to the Phillies on the radio, we kids running wild, playing hide n seek, jump rope, hop scotch, catching fireflies, or trying to hear what the grown-ups were talking about without being noticed...
Playing in the "crick" with my friends, building dams, catching crawdads, garter snakes, getting muddy and scratched and mosquito bitten. Didn't matter--it was fun.And once I got my two-wheeler, I was given so much freedom--I rode all over town and beyond on that balloon-tired, coaster brake steed. No worries about crime or abduction in our small town.
Then came TV and things began moving inside instead of outside....not a good thing, IMO. Now, our electronics continue to connect us--while also isolating us (says she while posting this on the internet). It's a mixed bag, isn't it?
But I liked growing up when I did and could run wild and free and pedal everywhere without worries.
Additionally, in our home, packaged chicken (already cut-up/prepared accordingly) was a rarity! Mom and dad always bought whole chickens and did the cutting themselves.
Tussiemussies
10-25-12, 4:40am
Happy Hiker, I agree with you I was born in 61 and also feel I got experience a totally different lifestyle than what changed shortly after. We also lived somewhat frugally, but the one thing I remember was that all thebMom's were at home. I know most women like to work now, but to me then it was a very secure feeling that all the Mom's were there watching out for all children, and when you needed your Mom because you cut your leg you could run home crying and she would make everything okay. All food was homemade!
With Halloween right on our doorstep, I couldn't help but tie-together, Halloween, and the associated costumes that went along with (back in the day). Few spend money on costumes for their kids. Take for instance the old-standby hobo get-up. Baggy pair of pants matched with an oversized shirt and coat/jacket, a pillow to stuff the front, a little makeup to blacken (dirty-up said kids face), and a pair of old boots! No fancy candy-bags or such, just a simple pillowcase, and said kid was off and running!
ToomuchStuff
10-30-12, 12:23pm
Old sheet as a ghost, Cardboard boxes to make a robot, or (used in a school play) a turtle shell. Older persons clothes. Toy guns for a cowboy or indian, etc.
We made all our costumes when I was a kid as well; even now, I have a rule to never spend more than $10 on any costume parts. I keep all the bits and pieces and make-up (clown white, fake blood, rubber snakes etc.) to use again. I don't do much for Halloween anymore but last night I went to open mic dressed in my 15 year old long black dress with a pin-striped vest, a black fedora and a bunch of rubber snakes draped around my neck, upper arm, and around my hat for a hat band. What was I? I have no idea but it took me all of 10 mins to throw on the attire and head out the door!
All food was homemade!
You and Mrs. M's mothers were certainly different from mine. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and my mother, although exceptionally frugal, LOVED all the modern conveniences to be found in the grocery store. 90% of the food we ate was pre-packaged in some way or another. Boxes of sugar smacks for breakfast. Deviled meat sandwiches on white bread for lunch. Two (always two, regardless of how big or small they were) cookies as a mid-afternoon snack. Fish-sticks, mashed potatoes from bagged flakes, canned veggies, and canned cling peaches in heavy syrup for dessert as dinner. This would've been a standard day of food in our house.
SteveinMN
10-31-12, 1:04pm
I grew up in the 60s and 70s and my mother, although exceptionally frugal, LOVED all the modern conveniences to be found in the grocery store. 90% of the food we ate was pre-packaged in some way or another. Boxes of sugar smacks for breakfast. Deviled meat sandwiches on white bread for lunch. Two (always two, regardless of how big or small they were) cookies as a mid-afternoon snack. Fish-sticks, mashed potatoes from bagged flakes, canned veggies, and canned cling peaches in heavy syrup for dessert as dinner. This would've been a standard day of food in our house.
The first thing I learned how to cook was omelettes. The second was Hamburger Helper. :|( My mom actually worked outside the home for about 30 hours a week, so convenience foods (as they've been defined here) were a big part of our menu -- though I don't know as I would say 90%. We ate fish sticks. But we also ate fresh local fish and seafood, which back in those days near New York City, was cheap. I was in college before I ate mashed potatoes which were made from real potatoes and not boxed flakes. Ditto for stuffing/dressing. We ate some canned vegetables because they were cheap, but my mom didn't like canned vegetables so much, so we often had frozen vegetables (a brick of spinach or peas or broccoli could be had for 9 cents back then). Hot dogs were on the table; so were hand-patted hamburgers. And Hamburger Helper. And Tuna Helper, back when that came out and tuna was still inexpensive. My mom was (still is, actually) big on deli meats for lunch. Not much in the way of sugary cereals for breakfast or desserts, though -- my dad was diabetic so we didn't eat many sugary foods. I guess I didn't realize till now how much "convenience food" we relied upon. Then again, at one time, any canned vegetable or fruit or a sack of flour was a "convenience food".
It wasn't until I became an adult and moved away that I discovered that the produce section at the grocery store had fresh versions of all the dreaded canned veggies I'd had as a kid. I actually really like veggies now, but if someone put a plate of food in front of me with some canned green beans or carrots I'd undoubtedly do the same thing I did as a kid. I'd push them around on the plate until it finally got taken away from me. Of course, I also had no idea that lettuce came in any other style besides iceberg. A few things are still my favorites. For instance the only 'right' kind of cranberry sauce for thanksgiving is that which comes in a can and is sliced into rounds so that you can still see the indentation rings from the can...
The curious part is that mom was actually quite a good cook when she wanted to be. For special events like thanksgiving she could make seriously good homemade goodies like pecan pie entirely from scratch.
Simplicity
11-2-12, 2:05pm
You and Mrs. M's mothers were certainly different from mine. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and my mother, although exceptionally frugal, LOVED all the modern conveniences to be found in the grocery store. 90% of the food we ate was pre-packaged in some way or another. Boxes of sugar smacks for breakfast. Deviled meat sandwiches on white bread for lunch. Two (always two, regardless of how big or small they were) cookies as a mid-afternoon snack. Fish-sticks, mashed potatoes from bagged flakes, canned veggies, and canned cling peaches in heavy syrup for dessert as dinner. This would've been a standard day of food in our house.
Yup. Same here. Did you grow up in my house, JP? :) My mother rarely cooked from scratch. And suppers were meat, potatoes and a can of veggies. I don't think I tasted a fresh pea until I was in my 20's!
We were poor. We lived simply because that's how we had to live. Mom was a single mom on welfare. I was an only child. We lived in many different apartments throughout my childhood. I have no idea why we moved so often. By the time I reached grade 4 or 5 I kind of stopped getting close to people because it was too hard to leave them.
I do remember many of the same things as others have mentioned in this thread. I enjoyed the same type of freedom of going out to play and coming back by dinner or by dark. Mom knew where I was, but I was usually with other kids and as others have mentioned, other Mom's were probably watching us. Good times.
For instance the only 'right' kind of cranberry sauce for thanksgiving is that which comes in a can and is sliced into rounds so that you can still see the indentation rings from the can...
i could never eat this as a kid as it reminded me of canned sliced beets.
i do go for the whole berry in the can now though.
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