Driver's Ed

[Gardenarian]

My daughter is 13 and I think she ready to start learning how to drive. (She's 2 inches taller than I already.) I didn't get my license till I was 18, and never had any driver's education. I was a terrible, nervous driver for a long time. I'm not anxious for dd to get her license particularly early, but it seems to me that the more experience you have driving the better. I plan on teaching her myself, though if she wants/needs to get her license early, I think we need to go to an "official" driving school.

How old were you when you learned to drive? Did you take a course, or learn from a parent/sibling/friend?

[herbgeek]

Are you sure this is legal in your state as far as her being on the roadways? In my state (MA) you have to have a learner's permit to do this, and you have to be 16 to get your learner's permit. I grew up in Ct, where you could get your permit at 15 1/2, provided you were enrolled in an official drivers ed class, which I was.

[Miss Cellane]

My dad tried to teach me and it was a total bust. It resulted in my being so scared to drive that I didn't get my license until I was 29, after having driving practice with an experienced teacher (I didn't need driver's ed at that point; I could read the manual myself. What I needed was time on the road, behind the wheel, with someone who wouldn't go into a panic if I asked a question). On the other hand, he taught my older brothers and they were fine.

You could always take your daughter somewhere safe on the weekends, like a deserted parking lot at an office building, and let her practice steering and braking and turning.

[sweetana3]

Same thing happened to me as did to Miss Cellane. My Dad was a terrible driving teacher. I did not drive until 29 and had to pretty much be forced to.

ps: Just what does height have to do with the capability or maturity to drive?

[SteveinMN]

Heh. My dad was a driving instructor.:doh: Fortunately, I'd learned to drive as part of high-school driver's ed (away from home), so all he had to do was polish. :D

Where I was living at the time, completing high-school driver's ed got you a license as young as 16. I certainly would not be in a hurry to have a teenager driving, though I'd give in quicker if it was not a dense urban area.

I like Miss Cellane's idea of off-the-street practice.

[Gardenarian]

ps: Just what does height have to do with the capability or maturity to drive?

I just meant that she is big enough to reach the pedals and see over the dashboard! When I was her age I was about four foot seven.

It's too bad you guys had bad experiences with parents as driving teachers. I guess it would be hard to stop those reflex reactions to yell "STOP!" or whatever.

I think it was on a TED talk that someone was talking about it being legal to teach your youngsters to drive (though I'll look into the local laws.) I definitely plan on just parking lot practice - there is an office park in our town that is deserted on week-ends.

I lost several friends in high school in car accidents, and am anxious about dd driving, which is why I'm thinking of starting young.

[Blackdog Lin]

I agree with you, Gardenarian, that the more experience, the better. At any age. Forget manuals and tests, it's experience behind the wheel that teaches someone safe driving. I applaud you for taking the initiative.

Overall, I think 13 is too young to be getting a (restricted) license and driving by herself, but plenty old enough to be practicing and learning with her parent(s). I'd plan on hours and hours of drive-time for her with you beside her, starting in protected situations (like parking lots and such), and moving out to streets when appropriate. This is what I did with my son when he was of an age (15, I think). And of course I insisted he take Driver's Education in the school system, to get the "manuals and test questions" part of driving common-sense.

I myself learned most of my driving ability from my Daddy. Oh, what he must have gone through. My little story:

I'm 16, get my driver's license in Kansas on Friday, and fly to California to spend the summer with Daddy on Saturday. Not just California, but Los Angeles. The big city. Daddy is proud of me getting my license, and during the adult's Saturday-night poker game (that very night) casually throws me his car keys and says "we need more.....(I don't remember what was needed, was it soda pop, or chips?.....), run to the liquor store at Normandie and Redondo Beach and get us some". (In CA, in those days, the little liquor stores were what our quick stores in Kansas are today.) Oh, I was so proud. So cool. And so I drove to the store, got whatever it was I was supposed to, and then when backing out of the parking lot.....

.....I put the car into drive instead of reverse, hit the gas, and drove THROUGH the liquor store. Well, 6-8 feet of it anyway. Broke through the big display window, the car is setting several feet into the store, I've moved a cooler or two.....Not cool. I am suddenly not cool at all. I call the adults, Daddy and others come and take care of everything, and I remember deciding that I am never going to drive a car again. I hadn't even had my driver's license 24 hours.

But the best part of the story: on Monday morning, 2 days later, Daddy says we're going to (wherever, I can't remember), and you're driving. And I know that it involves the FREEWAY, and I of course say, no I'm not. And Daddy says yes you are, and I say I'm never driving again, and he says yes you are, and the upshot after 20 minutes of back-and-forth is me behind the wheel on the Los Angeles freeway, and I'm sure Daddy must have been wearing a hole in the passenger side of the floorboard, but he took me and he made me and and I am the decent and competent driver I am today because that man MADE me get back on the horse.

I don't know that I could have done the same thing with my son. Actually, I don't think I could.

Kudos to my Daddy, and Godspeed.....it might not have been the smartest crunch driving instruction, but it was very very effective.....a sort of sink or swim driving course.....

[fidgiegirl]

I echo herbgeek. In MN you MUST have a certain number of behind the wheel hours if you are getting a license before 18. Worth looking into the rules where you are.

I admit that 13 does seem a tad on the young side to me, but I had friends whose parents had them doing what you are talking about - driving in parking lots or on back country roads. We're all (thank God) still alive - all those of us who didn't have that, and those who did.

I did classroom driver's ed at 14, almost 15 (you could be like a month before 15, since on your 15th bday you could go get a permit) and behind the wheel hours later that year, and passed my driver's test on the first opportunity after my 16th bday. We lived in a little town so my parents were ecstatic not to have to haul my butt around anymore.

All this was in an automatic, though. The car I was going to use was a stick. Dad tried to teach me. Not so good. Lots of tears and screaming. He is generally an effective teacher but he knew too well how to drive the stick himself, and I had zero foundational knowledge. The gap was too big. It was my classmate Jim who set me on the path to understanding with his explanation of it. Thank God for Jim. Once I got my license, I just spitted and sputtered down the road until I got it. And to this day I prefer a stickshift.

Overall if a parent, or any driving teacher, is calm but firm, I think it's fine. I always hated when my mom would say (well, yell) things like "what are you doing?!" and not only would I have to correct what I was doing but figure out what the he** it even was that I was doing wrong! To this day I hate that kind of panic in a passenger. More effective to succinctly and firmly state (with urgency, if needed - but that's different than yelling) the issue so the learner-driver can correct. "Stay in this lane. Car in your blind spot." "Stop sign ahead."

and I suppose none of that matters one bit when you are on the verge of getting smooshed!

[fidgiegirl]

.....I put the car into drive instead of reverse, hit the gas, and drove THROUGH the liquor store.

Oh no!!! Good thing you learned to tell the tale!!

[JaneV2.0]

Count me as one whose father was a lousy driving instructor. (I can't even imagine what scorn would have rained down upon me if I crashed into a liquor store. Good God!--Love that story, Blackdog Lin.)

Fortunately, I was old enough when I started driving that I could just have licensed friends sit in the car while I taught myself. I was nineteen.

Thirteen seems too young to me, unless she's driving farm equipment on private property.

[Tradd]

Yeah, 13 seems young to me as well.

I grew up in Michigan, and you HAD to be 15 to get your permit, after having instruction and a certain number of hours behind the wheel. I think it's the same in IL, where I live now.

[ToomuchStuff]

I grew up with some friends on a farm. They had me move the vehicle while they loaded up hay, since it was kicking up my allergies when I was about 12, I think. In the country (I just visited), it seemed like people learned early, between tractors, dirt bikes, farm trucks, etc.
Steering, gas and brakes are easy, since so many video games since Pole Position. What they don't learn there is speed, and feel, as well as clutch (most arcades don't use a clutch). My grandmother started me off, by taking me down to the family mechanic's, where I started learning about cars, at around 14. At 15, she taught me how to drive in a local cemetery.
We had drivers ed as part of our school curriculum back then, and by the time I was in it, the only thing my parents taught me, was how to parallel park.
In my experience, kids learning how their cars work and how to work on them, seem to take better care of them then those that just get them and play driving video games.

[Miss Cellane]

I just meant that she is big enough to reach the pedals and see over the dashboard! When I was her age I was about four foot seven.

It's too bad you guys had bad experiences with parents as driving teachers. I guess it would be hard to stop those reflex reactions to yell "STOP!" or whatever.



Seriously, my dad felt that any question from me was a sign I wasn't ready to drive. When I was in my 40s, on a 10 hour road trip with Dad in his car, the first time I got behind the wheel, I took a minute to find the switch for the headlights and how the windshield wipers worked and figured out the cruise control buttons, because I figured, hey, better do this in the parking lot than on the Thruway, right? Dad sat there muttering how maybe I shouldn't drive the car if I didn't know how. And I'd been driving for over 15 years at that point. I'd never had a ticket or an accident, but Dad had crashed a car just a few years before when he fell asleep at the wheel (which was largely the reason I invited myself along on the road trip).

And a related fun fact. As recently as the 1970s, you could get a driver's license as young as 12 in New Hampshire, if you could prove that driving yourself was the only way you could get to school. It was a limited license, and I doubt at that point that anyone really needed it, as most school districts had school buses by then. But it was a little remnant of a rural past.

[Zoe Girl]

I have taught 2 kids to drive, and am ready for the 3rd. Whew, have we talked about gray hairs! It is actually one of my great accomplishments. My oldest is not coordinated as much as others. She still can drive an automatic and a manual, get around the downtown area and go on all the highways. Like me she needs to really know her directions however she can do it with only one minor accident at 21. My middle is more naturally coordinated, we have had her lose her license for an unpaid ticket, then had to actually post bail, go to court for a headlight and lack of the insurance card in the car, and we had to get new insurance when she got a 2nd ticket under 18. She is actually a good driver IMHO, but she looks very young and now that we are in the city they are very strict. Both times the headlight went out we were pulled over in 24 hours or less.

So after teaching 2 kids to drive I will say that it has little to do with being the right size (my middle kid was under 100 lbs when she got her license) and a lot about maturity and judgement. There is no way to rush this. The judgement calls you make as a driver affect a very large vehicle and everyone around you, pedestrians and other cars. That is a large reason I believe in the laws that restrict age of license, the younger the more training required by a certified instructor, and here young drivers are not allowed any friends in the car for 6 months. As you get older you can be taught by a parent and just take a test. Teenagers are fun and also capable but have times when they seem younger than very small kids with judgement. Their judgment can be very expensive even as a good driver. I am nto sure it is even legal to take them to a parking lot without a permit. Laws have changed drrastically since we were learning to drive.

I know I am being not encouraging about teaching a very young driver, I think I would find another way to celebrate her growing up, being tall, getting mature and moving into teen years.

[iris lily]

When DH was 5 he drove the tractor on his parents' farm. DH steered it straight down the row while his dad and mom worked behind it. When he came to the end of the row his dad would jump up on the tractor and turn it around, and DH would steer down the next row.

To this day DH says he can drive anything. But I think not a plane, but for any ground vehicle I'd put my money on him.

[SteveinMN]

Both times the headlight went out we were pulled over in 24 hours or less.
Zoe, I understand about schedules and aptitudes and all that, but might it be worthwhile to teach your kids how to do some basic preventative maintenance on their cars, like how to replace headlamp and taillamp bulbs, check tire pressures, and the like? It sure doesn't hurt to know how to do that, and it certainly is much cheaper than hiring it out. Might emphasize the safety aspect of driving, too. Maybe one of the older ones can teach the younger ones.

[awakenedsoul]

This thread is bringing back memories! My brother used to sneak the car out when my parents weren't home. He was 12, and he taught himself to drive! He was their nightmare child. I learned to drive a moped first. I got my motorcycle license at 15 so I could drive myself home from ballet every night. I saved up my babysitting money to buy it. It cost $500. That was 500 hours of babysitting. I failed the written motorcycle test three times. The fourth time I got 100% because it was a repeat test. (I just didn't understand the wording, the lane positioning, any of it.) I think it was my lack of experience.

At fifteen, I learned to drive a car. I took drivers ed in highschool. My teacher had a pacemaker! The class was right before lunch, and they used to drop me off at my house on their way back to school. I'd eat lunch at home and walk back to school. One time when practicing driving with my dad, I backed his car into my mother's car, BAM! I just didn't have the coordination or reflexes to come out of a parallel parked postion. My dad sighed and went and called his insurance broker. I got my drivers license on my 16th birthday. It was so exciting!

I think thirteen is too young, too. I liked starting at 15.

[Zoe Girl]

Zoe, I understand about schedules and aptitudes and all that, but might it be worthwhile to teach your kids how to do some basic preventative maintenance on their cars, like how to replace headlamp and taillamp bulbs, check tire pressures, and the like? It sure doesn't hurt to know how to do that, and it certainly is much cheaper than hiring it out. Might emphasize the safety aspect of driving, too. Maybe one of the older ones can teach the younger ones.

Thank you Steve, they actually know how to do much of it all. I made the basics part of teaching them to drive, and my 15 yo knows some of it even though he does not have a permit. The headlight on one car had a bolt issue where we had to bring it in and even the mechanic had a hard time. The issue was that the headlight went out, we noticed it and before we even had time to address it she got pulled over. The police in the city are very quick to respond, down in the suburbs we could get it fixed the same week and be fine. I am wondering if the headlight out is a gang related signal since they are immediately responding actually.

[bunnys]

I taught Driver's Ed for awhile. Behind the wheel, in fact. When it's not your car and it's not your kid it's amazing how unemotional the teacher can be.

The deal with teaching a 13-year-old to drive is that at that age they don't have the judgement or motor skills necessary to handle a 2-ton vehicle, regardless of height. Additionally, just because you're not on the road, doesn't mean it's ok. If I were the owner of a church parking lot, I really wouldn't want some parent teaching their kid to drive on our private property, possibly mowing down the new lights the elders council put in or the landscaping that mothers had just spend a month working on. Not to mention, allowing a child to engage in an illegal activity on my private property (regardless of parental involvement) may make me liable if something (anything) bad happens.

As the parent, are you certain your car insurance will pay if your 13-year-old crashes the car when you're teaching her to drive?

If I were you, I'd check on all these things before you allow this to happen.

If your child gets her learner's permit at the appropriate age and you have her drive a lot before she takes behind-the-wheel and before she takes the driver's license test, she will get pretty good before they hand her a license. Soloing is a different deal altogether.

[Gardenarian]

Hi all, and thanks for your feedback. I didn't think this would be controversial, but you have brought up a lot of good points.

I lived in a rural area of Minnesota for a few years as a kid, and I remember quite a few 6th graders who drove trucks and tractors around. I believe the legal age for driving was 14 (may have been a special agricultural license.) Those kids who drove early really knew their way around an engine, and seemed more responsible in many ways than other kids.

That being said, I do not live in a rural area! I was not planning on having dd drive on the street until she got her learner's permit. I have had her practice turning on the car, using turn signals, backing up and so forth in our driveway. I am including her in all the regular car maintenance (checking the oil, tires, refilling wiper fluid, etc.) I have also made her my navigator, and have her get maps from Mapquest.

I lost several good friends in car accidents in high school, and have never quite got over those tragedies. I'm not letting dd drive alone for many years, but I really want her to know what she is doing and to feel comfortable behind the wheel - as well as be very aware of the dangers.

:thankyou: