PDA

View Full Version : why are adults so spoiled?



flowerseverywhere
7-4-12, 5:47am
I was reading the thread on Children being spoiled and all I could think of was, well it's because their parents are so spoiled.

When did we go to a society that has two adults owning two or three (sometimes more) cars? When I worked in the city I rarely saw a commuting car with more than one adult in it.
Did you ever drive by a Dunkin Donuts in the morning and see the line snaking down the street for coffee? (easily available at home with a simple coffeemaker)
How many homes have you been in where there were several gigantic tv screens?
Ever sit somewhere public and see the majority of people playing on phones, knowing that not only were they very expensive people are paying hundreds each month for plans to use them?
A freind of mine's sister was telling us that she pays over $500 each month for all the tv/internet/phone plans in her household.
http://www.naturalnews.com/033885_food_waste_America.html "Jonathan Bloom, creator of WastedFood.com and author of the 2010 book American Wasteland, says that Americans waste as much as half of the food produced every year. Somewhere between 160 and 295 billion pounds of food is thrown away every single year, which is the equivalent of filling a 90,000 seat football stadium to the brim at least once every single day.

Drive down any highway and see the huge campers and trailers, sometimes towing a nice car down the highway. Think of the gas consumption, yikes!
In any town there are tons of really expensive motorcycles for fun and recreation.

In the meantime, people are losing their unemployement and disability benefits, everyone squacks about taxes going up, yet want the best schools for their kids, their roads to be repaired, their police and fire department to protect them. In other words we want it all, huge houses full of new furniture, many fancy cars and toys, instant access to media etc. Crazy and selfish times times.

mod please move if in the wrong place

mira
7-4-12, 6:16am
You are so very right. I will comment more when I'm not meant to be getting ready to leave the house!! :)

Zoebird
7-4-12, 7:10am
I read the article in the New Yorker about spoiled children. It was a really interesting article. Is that the same conversation?

First, on children -- What I see is often very strange, and I'm surprised at what people do not think their children are capable of. While in the article they mentioned that the little french girl was 'baking cupcakes' on her own, they didn't really describe the process of what that meant. Did she turn on the oven herself? Did she cut open any bags with scissors, or were things more accessible to her? My son is certainly allowed to cook with supervision around the hot elements. He simply cannot safely reach the controls. He can cook several foods, and he helps me and DH cook fairly frequently. He enjoys cooking. He'll also help with chores. And he is self possessed and well-behaved.

Second, on adults -- typically, children mirror their parents in a lot of ways. "Kids are cruel?" Learned it from their parents -- I see it all the time! I've experienced that first hand. Parents got judgy, kids mirrored it. Same with spoiled and entitled. While it may not be tying shoes or similar tantruming, I can't believe the crap that some adults try to pull (particularly in the US). The sense of entitlement was *unbelievable.* Insanely unbelievable. Demanding free yoga, free massages, wanting THEIR SPOT in the yoga room or she'll pitch a fit. All kinds of crazy.

And, I agree. I don't get why people spend so much on gadgets. I have no problem with it if you can pay cash and afford it and what not. but going into debt for phones? for shoes? for cars? I don't know. It's just nuts.

puglogic
7-4-12, 8:53am
Flowers, I agree with you 100% - though in my social circle there are many exceptions (I just don't include many of the "spoiled" type in my social circle because we have nothing to talk about)

chanterelle
7-4-12, 9:49am
Well, let's look at the larger picture.
After WWII, industry and the gov't both feared what would happen to both the economy and the political stability of the country, when the war time industrial boom, which had supplied and fed the troops, both in the factories and the farms came to an abrupt end.
The country had endured serious economic problems from the depression until the start of the war...then with the troops deployed and people flocking to the cities for wartime industry and the farms that remained after the depression and dustbowl churning out hefty profits to fuel the war.
Due to the depression and war industries, the population of this country was now centered in the cities rather than the country. With the returning troops the looming unemployment situation and resulting social unrest worried the govt and the drop off of wartime largesse worried the business people.
Together they hit upon a great way to keep up profits for industry and keep down the spectre of social unrest with mass unemployment.......the factories would be retooled to create comsumer stuff....lots and lots of it.

The notion of American Exceptionalism as seen in the manufacture and consumption of material goods began. Basic economic theory believed in the fact of endless economic growth fueld by endless comsumption was not only possible but required.
Marketing and advertising, always a powerful force, and which is now a $4/6 BILLION a year industry, went into full swing to convince people that they needed these goods, deserved these goods and were true Americans if the bought them and expanded their present life style.
This continued through the 50' 60's and the start of the 70's...when it it a few snags, then roared into life again during the late 80's and 90's with the New improved Economy.
Personal credit was made easy to acquire, very desireable and most importantly VERY NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE in the larger social context.
After 9/11 our president and NYC's mayor both implored people to go out and shop.. implying that this was our partiotic duty as well as the normal behavior of Americans.

I repeat the fact that marketing and advertising is a $ 4 to 6 BILLION a year business because it works so very well and when both industry asnd gov't are behind the push is it any wonder that in the years since the war that people have come to see themselves reflected in the image being pushed so very hard at them?

We need to stop wagging our fingers and clucking because they do not think like us and start to see the reality of just how this came to be and how we can help our children avoid it all.

CathyA
7-4-12, 9:51am
I think there's just too much to be had in this country (and some others).....cheaply, and at any cost to the resources/environment. I know I'm spoiled. I like buying the food I want, having AC, having a car, etc., etc.
We're handed so much so cheaply and its really hard to just turn it down and go without.
Its like children with candy and other bad food..........they would take it all the time, if it were available.
People are upset because they can't have fireworks today (because of the burn ban/drought). If we're whining because we can't have fireworks, how can we expect people to deal with not having tons of other "stuff".
We're spoiled rotten and its totally undermining us as decent/reasonable people and as a respectable nation.

jp1
7-4-12, 10:04am
The problem is that most people alive in the US today have never lived through a period where society faced any real hardship. Yes, certainly there are people today who have been unemployed a long time, lost their homes, etc, but not a true society-wide hardship like the great depression.

I recall reading an article a few years ago, when Lake Lanier in Georgia was in danger of becoming completely depleted because of the drought and severe water use restrictions had been put in place. They interviewed a carwash owner who was understandably upset at not being able to use water to wash cars. But his comment was that he hoped more rational people would change the decision to seriously restrict water usage. He didn't seem to really comprehend the seriousness of the situation at all because for so long now the US has had more then enough of everything everyone needs. That is not likely to always be the case, and when it's not I think a lot of people will be truly shocked.

pinkytoe
7-4-12, 10:11am
I know it was difficult raising my own dd around her friends who were given so much more. Even if we could have afforded to buy her a new car at 16 like her friends parents did, it did not seem like the right thing to do. She always balked at my resistance to purchase things because of the enormous peer pressure within her circle of friends to have the latest this or that. I got my own respect for frugality from my mother who grew up during the Depression and continued with that mindset even in better financial times. I hope the frugality gene will kick in for dd someday but for now, she does not deny herself anything as an adult. Clothes and shoes she has in abundance. New car, etc... I hope we all realize that the way we have been living is not a sustainable situation but whether or how the paradigm will change remains to be seen. It has been pummeled into our collective brain that we are deficit without living a certain lifestyle.

flowerseverywhere
7-4-12, 11:03am
so many excellent points - exactly what I was getting at. Even as a super low rate consumer I know I have way more than I need- it is just so ingrained in all of us.

I feel like we are being sucked into a giant whirlpool of cheap consumer goods and trying desperately to paddle out.

bunnys
7-4-12, 11:09am
Chantarelle--you have very nicely summarized why we're in the situation we currently are in economically and environmentally.

About 20 years ago, prior to me really understanding and adopting an anti-consumerist attitude, I was having a discussion about the economy with my sister. I think it was during Bush I's recession--back in the early 90's when the stock market crashed 500 points in one day. Anyway I said to her "but we've got to have growth in the economy. The government has to implement policies that foster growth." Her response was "why do we have to have growth? Why can't we just sustain where we are now?" This was kind of like a watershed moment for me because it never even occurred to me that we could have an economy that wasn't based in an endless cycle of extraction, production, consumption and disposal. Since that conversation, I feel like those ideas have become even more firmly entrenched in our collective psyche.

jp1--what that car wash guy doesn't realize is that if we don't all sacrifice some now, we'll all sacrifice a lot (and suffer a lot by extension) later. But can you really expect him to make a sacrifice if he isn't compelled by some larger entity? Seriously, this guy is just trying to put food on his dinner table. The only way he (and all the other consumers out there) can be expected to suck it up and sacrifice a little is if they're compelled to by the government through regulation that's designed to look for solutions to problems that exist now by looking at the long term.

chanterelle
7-4-12, 11:28am
Years ago when I was doing the inventory of things in YMOYL, I was startled to see the all stuff that I had.
How and when did I, a person who hated shopping, never followed trends and didn't own a TV, collect this stuff? Bit by bit stuff had appeared...fridge, sewing machine, furniture, housewares, clothing, books, looms and spinning wheels art supplies etc etc
I had no debt, some savings and was partial support for my mother and sister so there was no easy credit or lots of spare cash involved ....who knew that I was such a consumer??
Worse than the list of stuff was the $$ tally...what I had paid vs what I could sell it for now.
What started out as a nuisance task in my eyes became as valuable as tracking and evaluating all my spending thereafter.

AmeliaJane
7-4-12, 12:06pm
You know, it's interesting that the busy threads here often seem to alternate between "Boy, I really hate it when people judge me for my small house/small car/choice to work part-time/large family/childfree household/lunch made of leftovers" and "Hey, let's fire up the Judgment-Mobile and drive around town pointing out the people with big houses/big cars/smartphones/new clothes/salad-spinners." Not that I disagree that the current rate of consumption is very hard on the health of the planet and families' pocketbooks, just that if anyone should understand how effective a judgmental attitude is changing minds and hearts, it would be us. Personally, I think people are more likely to change consumption habits if they have positive role models and positive reinforcement for changes they do make (at least, so says my sister the psychologist.)

And I also think that it's hard to come to conclusions about people based on brief observations. Those people at Dunkin Donuts might be heedless with their money. They might also be co-workers who find that the day goes smoother if they start with a congenial cup of coffee, or someone with a difficult life who looks forward to a pleasant chat with the counter clerk every day, or a dad who doesn't make coffee at home because the smell aggravates his wife's morning sickness. You just never know...

SteveinMN
7-4-12, 12:45pm
You know, it's interesting that the busy threads here often seem to alternate
AmeliaJane, I had drafted a post, but got logged out while I was writing. When I logged back in, I saw this post. You have stated what I was going to write with far more eloquence (and brevity) than I did, so I will issue a hearty "you go!" and thank you for your comment.

Square Peg
7-4-12, 1:10pm
Amelia Jane, that is a good point. I think that one reason for it is that it is so overwhelming and systemic that little changes feel like shoveling snow with a teaspoon. And a sociology grad student, I am a big fan of looking at the structural issues surrounding current attitudes, which is how I see this thread.

We are definitely spoiled and undisciplined. We have been drowning in the castoffs of others for years. We are currently making dramatic changes to try to stem the tide. We are spending this week doing a massive purge, and we are at the beginning of a no spend year, to try to change deeply ingrained habits.
I blogged about it the other day. Is it okay to include the link here? http://livingwellwhilebroke.blogspot.com/2012/07/big-announcement.html

ApatheticNoMore
7-4-12, 1:50pm
When did we go to a society that has two adults owning two or three (sometimes more) cars? When I worked in the city I rarely saw a commuting car with more than one adult in it.

Because both parents work? I mean you don't need 3 cars for two adults, but you can see how 2 cars for 2 adults makes more sense when both parents work right? First of all they are almost NEVER heading in the same direction for work. So carpooling with each other seldom makes sense. Now there may be such a thing as work carpools but you'd have to schedule this just right with both adults to make it work as sometimes you'd have to be the driver. Public transport? If I did my commute entirely in public transport it would be well over 3 hours everyday spent commuting (even when I do partial public transport, it's like 2 hours and 50 minutes). Telecommuting - now that idea makes massive amounts of sense for many kinds of jobs!!! And how many companies are setup for and will allow it ... way too few.

flowerseverywhere
7-4-12, 2:09pm
yes, Amelia Jane, it is very easy to be judgemental. Yet when I look around my possessions I just can't believe how wasteful and spoiled I have been despite making huge efforts not to be. That is part of my point, that the consumerism treadmill reaches it's fingers very far- even when you are making efforts not to be affected.
And Yes apathetic, many families need two cars, some may even need more with teenagers who drive and lots of activities.
It isn't the specific things one person does or another because some of the things I do would make someone elses mouth drop open. It is the overall picture and I was just pointinig out some examples that I see both in my self and in others. I will be the last one to say that I am perfect or doing it right, just every day trying to make the world a better place and trying to reject consumerism for myself.

flowerseverywhere
7-4-12, 2:15pm
square peg, love your blog. A lot of what I have found too.

bae
7-4-12, 2:18pm
I can't believe the number of people who buy cheap imported Chinese hairshirts at WalMart, instead of weaving their own from virgin sustainably-produced cavy fur.

creaker
7-4-12, 2:41pm
The thing that amazes me is how much of this stuff is bought because people are unhappy or dissatisfied. And then when they continue to be unhappy or dissatisfied they go out and buy more. If people were really and truly happy with having a lot of stuff it would be a justification for it. But so many aren't.

The "spoiled" thing as in expected entitlement I think is a side affect of the above. We're a culture of dysfunctional people raised that way so we buy a lot of crap. Happy, contented people don't need much, and tend to be happy with the things they already have - which isn't very conducive for selling people a lot of stuff.

JaneV2.0
7-4-12, 3:15pm
I can't believe the number of people who buy cheap imported Chinese hairshirts at WalMart, instead of weaving their own from virgin sustainably-produced cavy fur.

I hate when your snark makes me laugh out loud, bae. No hairshirts for me, sustainable or not.

Stella
7-4-12, 3:19pm
I can't believe the number of people who buy cheap imported Chinese hairshirts at WalMart, instead of weaving their own from virgin sustainably-produced cavy fur.

:)

flowerseverywhere, I feel like I am spoiled, so I get where you are coming from, although I do agree with Amelia whole-heartedly that it's very hard to judge people's situations from brief observations.

For myself, I feel like I'm doing OK most of the time until I am reminded of the abject poverty so many people live in and the harsh conditions people face with grace and courage that I have not had to face and then I think "I am such a marshmallow. What right do I have to complain about anything ever?" Is that going to stop me? No, I'm sure I'll always have days when I don't appreciate what I have and focus on what I don't have, but I'm trying to keep that in mind and reduce those days. It's a process.

I agree with those who have said that a lot of it is systemic. We could probably get away with two vehicles for three people if my dad could work from home. Zach is a residential electrician, so he really does need a vehicle to get from job to job. We have a small car for him to save on gas and a minivan for me because it fits all of the kids. Dad has a sedan to drive to work, but he really could do most of his work from home. Dad has a car loan, but that is because the interest rate on the car is less than the interest rate his money is earning in his investments so it didn't make sense for him to take the money out of the investments to pay for the car outright, but he could do it today if he wanted to.

I have to say, most of the people I know are making efforts to conserve and most of the people I know are relatively frugal. People here brag about what a good deal they got on X at the thrift store or some yard sale. It's kind of surprising because most people around here have a pretty healthy income. I know it's not like that everywhere, but I think it's getting more popular to be thrifty and environmentally conscious.

Sad Eyed Lady
7-4-12, 3:20pm
Remember the "satisfaction curve" in YMOYL? I may not have called it correctly but if you have read it you will remember. I think that is true with adults and children - we are so happy with something new, then wow! something else new, then OM goodness something else new, then oh, o.k I'll look at it in a minute, thanks; then "you got me THIS? You know I wanted the newer version, I don't want it. And on and on. Too much = less satisfaction and more spoiled adults and children. Not as eloquently put as some of you, but you get the general idea.

pinkytoe
7-4-12, 3:51pm
It's funny how whenever we make lifestyle observations here someone judges us and says that we are being judgemental...just kidding! I have always wondered what a hair shirt is.

Square Peg
7-4-12, 4:16pm
square peg, love your blog. A lot of what I have found too.

:) thanks

Zoebird
7-4-12, 5:24pm
Hey, I was specific. I said no problem having stuff if you can afford it, but going into debt for stuff just seems a bit much for me.

awakenedsoul
7-4-12, 5:32pm
It's funny how whenever we make lifestyle observations here someone judges us and says that we are being judgemental...just kidding! I have always wondered what a hair shirt is.

I liked your post. It didn't sound judgemental to me. I saw it as an observation, just like you said. I think discernment can help us avoid potentially negative situations. I'm learning to pay attention to the "red flags." One nice thing about living simply is it helps you to not really care what other people think.


From teaching so many people for thirty years, one thing I learned was that everyone has challenges. They might be ill, or be in a toxic work situation, or struggling financially, or fighting their weight. Having a lot of stuff (to me,) is stressful. I worked on the road for fifteen years of my career. I just had two suitcases. I never really got into the materialism.

flowerseverywhere
7-4-12, 6:13pm
It's funny how whenever we make lifestyle observations here someone judges us and says that we are being judgemental...just kidding! I have always wondered what a hair shirt is.

yes, you always have to keep in mind that you are reading a tiny segment of what a person is and what they are thinking. Like e-mails, there is a limit to what message you can get across. It's like someone's spouse getting the third speeding ticket in a month and saying to a close friend "Argh, I could kill them", full well knowing that they know you are not going to harm them in any way, it is just an expression of frustration. Sometimes making observations then realizing that although it is not what you do, there is a lot of room for improvement in your own life.

simplemama
8-7-12, 9:21am
As hard as I work to keep my 5 children "not spoiled" I know I am spoiled. Roomy home, all the basics for survival. 3 bathrooms, garage so i dont have to get my tootsies wet when it rains, huge (nasty smelling and darkly lit small town) grocery store 10 minutes from my home where I can buy whatever my heart desires (usually) Hard cider whenever I want it, minivan that fits all the children without having to double buckle, nice linen to make my clothes with, ect ect ect
Anyone ever see Veggie Tales, Lord of the Beans.....youll know what im talking about when I say, I have the magic bean for my "life of ease!" Its called living in America. I have to remind myself that it is rare in this world to live like this, and to most people the world over, I live like a very rich person, even though we are not rich by American standards.
I have friends who live the life I think many are visualizing here. Small cabin on 5 acres, just big enough for the family, rainwater collection, dad works at home, farms their food, milks a cow, very simple, sustainable life. Its a hard break from modern americas way, and I think only for those who are healthy and strong, at least here in the USA, where we can choose. Anyplace else, if you are sickly and have to live that way, your family suffers because your labor is so directly tied to your life.
I do try not to judge because you never know where people are at in their journey. Maybe they have never heard the gospel of simple living or financial integrity before. A loving joyful real life example is what our world needs. I feel this way about my large family, nobody needs to hear me preach about the joys of lots of children to be convinced that large families are fun and worthwile, they need to see me out in public grocery shopping with them all and still smiling!;)

Rogar
8-9-12, 5:15pm
I've really enjoyed reading through everyone's perspectives. I have a personal theory about the WWII generation and the post war boom and how we've been riding on their coat tails ever since. With each successive generation saying, my children are going to have things better than my generation. It's complicated.

What is unfortunate to me is that so many of those people with the cell phones, ipads, multiple big screen tvs, and fancy SUVs are living on the very edge of their income plus credit limits. Then the articles come out that no one will ever be able to afford retirement. When you don't save money and have spending habits that exceed every previous generation, much of it on short term asserts or electronic media that will be obsolete in a couple of years the outcome is rather predictable.

pinkytoe
8-9-12, 6:31pm
I haven't done any world travel but lived in Mexico for a while. Watching a co-worker's slides on his recent trip to Peru brought it all back. Many people in the world survive in one-room huts without hot water or flush toilets. The walk great distances for basic supplies. In many countries, there are no safety nets so everyone is responsible for their own back; they learn to be very resourceful. I don't know if Americans are spoiled but they are blissfully ignorant of how much rougher life might be.