View Full Version : Now San Francisco tiny apartments
Apparently San Francisco is also considering allowing the building of apartments smaller then the current minimum size:
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/2012/07/micro-apartments-coming-to-san-francisco.html?s=image_gallery
http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/Micro-apartments-next-for-S-F-3706648.php#photo-3193849
Like the NYC apartments in the other thread these are aimed at young professionals who won't need much space and want to live in a place that's really convenient to a busy social lifestyle. Personally I'd be into it if I were still young and single. I'm not really into living at 9th and Mission where the proposed building will be, but that's probably because I'm not young or single so I'm willing to live in one of the outer city neighborhoods.
It's interesting to read the comments on the Chronicle's article. Amazing how many people think it's some sort of conspiracy to force people to live like this, rather then an effort of the free market to provide a product that people will pay for. I was especially amused at the commenter who thought that reasonable sized (in his opinion) housing was not being built in order to force people to live this way. Apparently he lives in a different San Francisco then I do. If there's a lot of open space for large, inexpensive homes to be built I haven't seen it...
It looks like a prison cell. Or are they bigger?
I haven't heard about too many 290 sq foot prison cells with 9 foot ceilings, modern kitchens and big windows. But then, I've not spent any time in a prison, so who knows. I'd suspect, though, that these apartments would be a lot more pleasant then San Quentin, although San Quentin's views are probably just as good, at least for the ones whose cell has a waterfront view...
ApatheticNoMore
7-30-12, 11:23pm
It can get a bit claustrophobic, I think, if you spend a lot of time at home (you start feeling you are bumping into the walls - stir crazy). Smaller apartments have felt claustrophobic for me, and I've lived in 4 different apartments so far. The one bedrooms just do feel less claustrophobic than the tiny studios. But for significant price difference then well you are talking my language.
It's interesting to read the comments on the Chronicle's article. Amazing how many people think it's some sort of conspiracy to force people to live like this, rather then an effort of the free market to provide a product that people will pay for.
I see it as a bit of both. The housing market is an extremely manipulated market. And that contributes to the situation where the only place young people can afford to live in San Francisco is something like that. But in the best of all worlds San Francisco probably wouldn't be cheap. In general I see the trend as a creative attempt to deal with unaffordable housing costs (and this is important, ridiculous cost structures do nothing for the local economy, not to mention the vibracy of a city), but why are housing costs so out of hand anyway?
I was especially amused at the commenter who thought that reasonable sized (in his opinion) housing was not being built in order to force people to live this way. Apparently he lives in a different San Francisco then I do. If there's a lot of open space for large, inexpensive homes to be built I haven't seen it...
Around here I see plenty of abandoned (rotting) housing. For what? Someone going to cash the land in some day? Someone burying bodies in the back yard? :)
I was using hyperbole to illustrate my opinion that to be forced to live in one room with windows that appear to not even open would feel like a prison to me.
But you know, if it works for you--more power to ya!
PS--I haven't been in prison so I don't really know either.
iris lily
7-31-12, 12:32am
I think that picture is charming, but I'd still rather have a one room bed sitter in a big old San Francisco house. A big one room with big bay windows and 12 foot ceilings.
try2bfrugal
7-31-12, 12:35am
I think it is a great idea. If I was younger and single I would definitely be interested.
Within that space, I think the livability could be improved by having:
An oven
A double sink with a high faucet
A washer and dryer, probably stacked--this would cut into the storage space but would mean you wouldn't need as many clothes or linens since you could wash them more easily.
If the sofa is not a sofa bed, designing it with drawers underneath would give back some storage space. Theough a good quality sofa bed would mean that you could leave the table in position.
For the chair at the desk, I'd go with a comfortable supportive office-wing chair. It's a comfy upholstered chair, but it has the good support of an office desk chair and it's on wheels like an office chair.
I'd have a deep windowsill with silestone on it. Over the windowsill, I'd have greenhouse lights. So in the windowsill, I could have a mini garden with herbs, microgreens, and some larger produce plants in an Earthbox.
It would be helpful to have at least a 2 drawer file cabinet, but it's hard to figure out where. Any suggestions?
A garbage can and a recycle bin could possibly go under the sink. Presumably they would have a garbage and recycle room in the building and hopefully a section in this room where you could leave freecycle type items to share. It would also be good if some place in the building had one of the fast composters that could handle all food scraps.
If there was good zoned ceiling or wall lighting, it would reduce the need for lamps.
If the Murphy bed was used as the main bed, it would help to be able to draw a dark curtain between the bed and the sofa so one person could sleep if the other needed to do some more work.
Ideally the building would have cisterns and solar panels.
Love it. I would grab one of those right away.
I would put a lazyboy in place of the couch, park my little bike in the extra space that creates, only entertain if someone drops by which makes less seating acceptable. I second the idea of a small washer dryer unit being worth the space it takes. But I would never miss not having an oven.
This is a beautiful apartment.
Tammy, some of the info for the buiding says that there is secure bike storage elsewhere in the building. I had been thinking of that too since the building is intended for car-free people.
I'm intrigued by your idea of oven free living. How would you design your menus to accomodate that?
Another thing I'd love to see in buildings like this is a vegetable bed for each unit, either in the open space or on the rooftop. At a minimum, a 4x4 foot square foot garden could give one person a salad or a vegetable per day for the growing season. More ideally a 4x12 bed would produce a salad a 2 vegetables per day. People could focus on the more delicate high nutrition vegetables to get the most out of their gardens. It would probably be worth it to have a gardener available for hire for the building as well to help people learn how to care for the gardens and to provide care when people were away.
iris lily
7-31-12, 10:01am
Amaranth, if one doesn't bake, one doesn't need an oven. I seldom use the oven, it's used almost exclusively in my household for DH's baking. I do make cookies now and then. HoosierNan (RIP) had a husband and two boys and didn't even have a stove.
Funny that I disagree with much of your improvements, such as:
Nix the 2 drawer file cabinet in that space. I'd arrange my life so that there is no paperwork to file beyond base necessities for income taxes. But probably people living in that space file 1040 EZ and don't keep receipts for tax records.
Double sink? why? These people don't cook.
I doubt that any of the gardening ideas would be practical other than as livestyle incentives to buy the condos.
I'm on the fence about washer and dryer--probably I'd rather have the space for something else--the recycling area is good and probably necessary.
I added some more to my previous post about food garden space for the units.
Float on, a deck would be great. Or a larger shared roof top patio area would be great too.
Iris Lily, how do you design your menus to be mostly oven free?
Avoiding the file cabinet sounds intriguing. Probably if someone had a job where they had to keep a lot of the receipts, they could keep the paper ones at work and scan them and put them on a flash drive in a fire safe at home and a backup maybe on their work server and something like carbonite.
iris lily
7-31-12, 10:23am
I don't use the oven, I don't like waiting for things to cook, I don't have time when I get home from work to bake something.
Most of our dinner time meals are things like:
Spaghetti and variations in a tomotoe or white sauce
Stir fry variations
Pan fried steaks (chicken, pork chops, pounded beef)
Noodles on top of the stove
Rice cooked in the rice cooker
I cook baked potatoes in the microwave oven
I cook a fair amount in the microwave oven, actually. Right now we are eating a lot of corn on the cob and the most efficient way to cook it is to put 2 - 4 ears in a plastic bag, and cook in microwave fore 6 minutes.
The one "quick" dinner time meal I'll do with an oven is pizza with a purchased crust, or pizza bread. But all of that has to be cooked on top of the stove and then just popped into the oven for 15 minutes.
Sometimes building plans like this also incorporate a building kitchen/party room with a few full-size stoves/ovens. As well as a laundry room.
I thought the full size fridge was a little overkill in their photos - a smaller slim line model would fit better.
At first I was very disappointed in the bed being out but then realized it's a murphy wall style. I'd still rather have a seperate bedroom.
I tend to use the oven only seasonly. I hate heating up the kitchen in the summer time. I think the last time I used my oven was early June for a home-made pizza (which I could of done on the grill if I was planning ahead).
iris lily
7-31-12, 10:32am
Floaton that idea about a shared oven is great! I like that. The logistics of who cleans it up is a nightmare, but the idea is great.
This is reminding me more and more of college dormitory living. You have a small private space and dedicated shared spaces for tings like bathroom, kitchens, gyms.
This should make the communal living people happy.
Floaton that idea about a shared oven is great! I like that. The logistics of who cleans it up is a nightmare, but the idea is great.
This is reminding me more and more of college dormitory living. You have a small private space and dedicated shared spaces for tings like bathroom, kitchens, gyms.
This should make the communal living people happy.
Well, we have a public space cleaning crew don't we????
awakenedsoul
7-31-12, 1:27pm
These are cool! Interesting how many single people there are who live alone these days. I lived in a similiar space like this when I was working in Europe. The hotels there are small, but comfortable and efficient. I was very happy. I didn't like having a roommate, though. On my own, it was fine...
I don't like having to use a laundromat, though. It depresses me. Makes me appreciate all I have now: a shady porch overlooking a garden, a washer/dryer and clothesline, and a nice big backyard. I guess I don't mind all the upkeep, though.
I think it is a great idea. If I was younger and single I would definitely be interested.
I think it's a great idea also - even for an older single person (i.e. me!!) or even a VERY loving couple (Sven and me!!) to live. I love San Fran and think this tiny apt type of thing is a great way a person live in the city at an affordable price. Personally, I love little places and would prefer a tiny "hobiit Hole" of a house even if out in the country to a larger place. I even spent this last week up in my old 'hood (Big Bear Lake - a mountain ski resort in SoCal) looking at tiny little cabins - all under 500 sf - some as small as 200 sf. They were all on little lots but very cute and user-friendly. Actually had more space then I would probably need - Sven (the hunky ski instructor) or no Sven in my life :-)!
Boy, I lived in an apartment similar to that right after college. It was a studio apartment in a 20's building. My living area was probably 200 sq. ft or less. I had a small galley kitchen off the living area, with a built-in dining table. On the other side of the living area was a walk-in closet and a bathroom (full-size with tub). It felt claustrophobic to me, but it was all I could afford at the time. As soon as I got my first raise at work, I moved into a one-bedroom in the same building. That make a world of difference. I really disliked sleeping and living in the same room. It felt like a motel.
I wouldn't be able to live without an oven either. How would I make a hot dish or a birthday cake? I wouldn't be happy long-term.
Wildflower
7-31-12, 6:34pm
I think that picture is charming, but I'd still rather have a one room bed sitter in a big old San Francisco house. A big one room with big bay windows and 12 foot ceilings.
That would be my preference as well.
These remind of a very upscale dorm room...
I would want an oven, I think, but could get by without it - using my slow cooker, electric skillet, and microwave. I do like to bake in the winter though. Could definitely do without a full size frig.
Would want a small balcony deck where I could at least get outside, and grow some veggies in containers.
Icould live there. especially in a climate where one could be out and about almost every day. I like the SF design better than the NYC. I too would like some outside space. I would probably do without the sofa and have a comfortable chair instead. I would do without the dishwasher and have a oven. I would like to have a stackable washer/dryer. I would go with a smaller frig.
Icould live there. especially in a climate where one could be out and about almost every day. I like the SF design better than the NYC. I too would like some outside space. I would probably do without the sofa and have a comfortable chair instead. I would do without the dishwasher and have a oven. I would like to have a stackable washer/dryer. I would go with a smaller frig.
I agree about having an oven over a dishwasher! Especially because as a single person, I never generated a lot of dirty dishes. I suppose they did their market research and found that the people most likely to rent this aren't making dinner rolls and hate doing dishes by hand.
ApatheticNoMore
7-31-12, 8:08pm
I agree about having an oven over a dishwasher!
3rded. I agree, I'd prefer and oven over a dishwasher.
Some of the things like tiny fridges I wonder about, because I have heard they don't do a great job keeping things cool (for a bunch of drinks, yea they are fine, but I mean real food). Regular apartment size fridges are adequate of course.
I'd keep the dishwasher and add an oven, but cut back to a half-sized fridge. I'd imagine you could get grocery delivery in San Francisco if you can get it here in Minneapolis. I'd just get food more often.
I live oven free now. Except I have an oven. I just never use it. ;)
I have not used my oven in the last 2 1/2 years. My husband has made cookies a few times, but I can easily live without that.
I eat meals from the stovetop. Rice, veggies, French toast. Or the microwave can handle what I need to do.
Edit: I didn't see the dishwasher. I wouldn't want one. Give me the cupboard space instead. Or a slightly larger sink. And definately a frig hgalf the size of the one they have.
I really liked it, and for that stage of life I really think it would work well. I think the fridge could be smaller, not large family size but bigger than the cube fridges in dorms. Right now I figured out how the 1958 model home I am renting was really configured. They had a smaller fridge where the dishwasher is and a new coutner (not matching) is laid over it. If I owned this place I would put it back that way and then have a small eating area where the giant fridge is. I buy food every 2-3 days for a family and that size would work out. As far as a filing cabinent, i don't think people use them as much. Many documents are scanned or can be scanned and the paper copy not saved.
I would have to have a real futon for that bed and then it would be all zen like.
I also read that there are common areas so if you have several friends over you can spill out into the lounge area of that floor. I am very interested in co-housing so this makes sense.
I have a GE Advantium microwave that also does convection. It's much smaller than an oven, but a little bigger than a small microwave. If you have convection, you can definitely skip the oven. We use it ALL THE TIME to roast chicken, make small batches of cookies, and do anything else that requires baking over microwaving. I almost never use my oven--just for roasting turkeys.
So, if you're on the fence about needing an oven, a microwave/convection oven is definitely the way to go.
I live oven free now. Except I have an oven. I just never use it. ;)
Me too! I actually use mine to hide my "emergency" money. Hope I don't forget it's there when I decide I want to actually cook something, someday (when you see all the pigs take wing you'll know I'm cooking :-)!).
I can't see why you couldn't put a tiny oven with a two burner stove top in a little apt. They have great ones on sailboats and in RVs that would work well in a tiny apt. Maybe you can't cook the 50 lb turkey for thanksgiving, but you can cook most things. I use a small toaster oven thingie to cook most things. You can bake and cook lots of things in one of those that you would normally use an oven for. It's more economical too in that you aren't heating up a big oven to cook one baked potato for an hour - just the little electric toater oven.
I think for the target audience having a big fridge and a dishwasher but no oven makes sense. (although I like the idea of the microwave/convection oven.) After all, the people who will likely live in these apartments probably won't be cooking much, but will probably have friends over for drinks and appetizers occasionally. a big fridge for all the beer, and a dishwasher to wash all the glasses and plates would be very useful for that. For instance, when I lived in my small apartment in NYC I brewed a lot of beer. So every few months I'd have a bunch of friends over for a 'beer tasting' happy hour party. I'd serve some light appetizers and at the end of the night I'd have a ton of glasses and little plates and silverware to wash. A dishwasher would've been a really nice luxury to have had.
I really like the idea of the communal rooms. What a great way for people who may be new to the city to get to know other people similar to themselves. If I'd lived in this building I'd've probably used one of the communal rooms for the beer parties and invited my neighbors as well as my friends and hopefully wound up with some new friends for my efforts.
I think good cross-ventilation and natural light would make all the difference for me--I don't see those here. For me long and skinny like the picture is harder to live in than squarish.
DH and I renovated the kitchen when we moved in where we are and no oven. We don't miss it. We steam a lot including things we want to reheat, and I eat some refrigerated stuff set out and let to reach room temp. He uses skillets sometimes on the cooktop.
try2bfrugal
8-2-12, 1:12pm
I do not use the oven much myself except for pizza for the kids. For meat I have a grill pan, a wok, slow cookers and a Nesco roaster. I make chicken and turkey in the roaster oven instead of the wall oven. I think the Nesco roaster uses less energy and in the summer it doesn't get the house as hot. We also have a toaster oven the kids use for things like pizza rolls.
ApatheticNoMore
8-2-12, 3:10pm
I think good cross-ventilation and natural light would make all the difference for me--I don't see those here. For me long and skinny like the picture is harder to live in than squarish.
I agree.
I would still like a rectangular room, but one that is wider than the one shown.
When I think of Victorian Bed sitter I think of all of the houses in my neighborhood and the front rooms of those houses, the ones that face the street. They have the most windows and are usually the biggest rooms. Probably my Victorian bed sitter wouldn't have a toilet, but it would likely have a sink. But the beautiful plaster moldings would make up for not toilet in the room.
I don't think these places exist any more. I dd a web search and couldn't find them, I think everything has been turned into regular apartments with full bathrooms. And that coast $$$$$$$$$$$. Too bad.
I wouldn't mind living in a space that small if it didn't have everything built in, especially all those built in storage cubes along the wall. The worst thing about dorm rooms is that a lot of the furniture is built in and you can't rearrange the room at all. If they had a few options for the location of the kitchen and type of appliances, and just left everything else open, it would be better. That would allow somebody to use room dividers, rearrange the furniture, and customize the space the way they want it.
Kathy, how would you customize a space like that?
simplelife4me
8-4-12, 2:22pm
I would like to live in one.
Even though it's small, I would put some kind of divider in to make the bedroom separate. I don't know what size fold down bed they have in there, but for one person a twin bed would be big enough, so I wouldn't waste space with a bigger one. Instead of the built-in storage cubes, I would rather have actual furniture like a cool antique wardrobe or buffet, that would look nicer than plain cubes. There's been a lot of discussion about fridge size and the need for an oven, so that's something that should be customizable, too.
I would LOVE one of these places!
I definitely could live in that apartment. Thing is, the apartment I live in now is not all that much bigger, but the space is very poorly laid out. I've been wanting to move for a while, but laziness, inertia and convenience have kept me where I am. But I look forward to one day finding a small space and doing just the kinds of things they've done here--making maximum use of minimum space.
Oldhat, would it help if you did some preprep at your current place by clearing out items you no longer need? Then a move would be a lot easier.
And maybe researching multifunction furniture and collecting the info on a Pinterest board so that when you did find a place you would have an index of potentially useful items to work with whatever layout it had.
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