View Full Version : this just isn't right !!
I continue to see articles about how the midwest aquifers are drying up and then to read that fracking goes on unabated just makes me boil:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/10/news/economy/kansas-oil-boom-drought/index.html
When does the greed stop?
I guess we have a death wish. :(
Its disgusting, isn't it?
ApatheticNoMore
8-10-12, 3:23pm
I continue to see articles about how the midwest aquifers are drying up and then to read that fracking goes on unabated just makes me boil:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/10/news/economy/kansas-oil-boom-drought/index.html
When does the greed stop?
Yea those articles make me angry too. It will stop when we and our children and grandchildren (except maybe a few elite) are all dead due to this stuff. It will stop when there is no water left for animals, lifestock, crops, or ourselves.
It will all be destroyed for the illusion of economic prosperity (sorry but a prosperity that destroys the future is NOT prosperity at all). The illusion of prosperity will be bragged about (our state is doing so well ...). I don't want it! I don't want your fake prosperity, your illusions of economic wealth, take it and shove it ..... If you ever come back with your salesman suitcase knocking on my door have something worth buying to sell, a wealth that doesn't destroy the future, if you ever think of that, then and only then I might be in the market for your wares.
And I guess it has been thus for at least a few hundred years (on a large scale - sure you can find examples of this much further back than that), so it seems like on such things has prosperity always been built, but of course the environmental situation is getting worse and the consequences worse and worse.
I mean really what are they saying? "Help there's not enough water to drill oil due to drought ... drought that will only be increased by burning this oil we need to drill" (climate change) That is insanity.
Water and the squandering of it is major major major thing going on, it's major unsustainability. Much more water is used from ground water than is replenished. I believe people should try to stop this stuff locally, there is a move to stop fracking in California for instance, it could happen.
I keep hoping someone like Spielberg will make a very realistic movie about what's in our future regarding the environment. I know it would probably be preaching to the choir and it wouldn't make much money.........but maybe it should be required viewing in high school? It just seems like if you make it realistic enough, and make it disgusting and frightful, maybe it would get people's attention??
It is utter foolishness to continually withdraw water from an aquifer faster than the recharge rate if you intend for your water-dependent activities to be sustainable long-term. Ignoring all the bad things that happen as the aquifer begins to fail, it is simple math that the practice will eventually result in no water.
Where I live, we have basically two sources of water: water from the sky, and water pumped from aquifers in the ground. These two sources are connected, as in some areas of the land, water from the sky can percolate down and recharge the aquifer. And water pumped from the aquifer often manages to end up back in the sky.
Since we are surrounded on all sides by salt water here, we monitor our aquifer very very carefully, making sure well levels are not declining, and that we do not suffer salt water intrusion into the fresh water aquifer, which can happen if we overuse, and which will destroy the utility of the aquifer for a looooong time if it happens.
We also monitor our critical aquifer recharge areas very carefully, and protect them, so that water from the sky is allowed to properly get back into the very small and fragile aquifer here.
Now, there is plenty of water from the sky for everyone's wildest use here, if they are reasonably prudent about how and when they use it - for during the wet months, there is essentially unlimited water, and the matter is simply arranging to store enough of it. Storing water in large quantities is quite expensive, so we rely on the natural aquifer as a source during the non-wet months.
It is a delicate balance, and if we screw it up, it will be expensive, or impossible, to live here any longer. The islands here that lack water are nearly barren much of the year, it is pretty obvious what happens.
You'd think people could figure this stuff out.
To play devil's advocate, there are those who will defend fracking as a necessary evil, in order to supply our country's insatiable hunger for power sources.
Is there any truth to that? Is there another way? Perhaps limitations on where, when, and how it's conducted? (such as, duh, a place where you won't destroy an aquifer that millions depend on)
Horrifying article, imho.
Arrgghh!!! So maddening! I wonder when people will get it. I wonder when the mass of people who actually have the common sense to realize that we can't keep adding to our resource deficit is bigger than the mass of people who simply don't give a darn. The companies are greedy, but their customers are equally demanding.
SteveinMN
8-10-12, 11:14pm
I wonder when the mass of people who actually have the common sense to realize that we can't keep adding to our resource deficit is bigger than the mass of people who simply don't give a darn. The companies are greedy, but their customers are equally demanding.
Ford has a TV ad out right now that features some prospective SUV buyer proclaiming that "we're going to save the world" driving trucks that get all of 28 miles to the gallon (highway). Save the world, indeed. >8) 28 may be a big step forward for America, but in Europe, where they're paying US$8-10 for a gallon of gasoline and driving vehicles that routinely get 60+ mpg (or, better, riding bicycles or using mass transit), they're laughing at such optimism. We all will pay for the problems brought on by fracking. I fail to see how we all similarly will benefit, aside from keeping the wolf of energy use away from the door for a few more years. And, as I've written elsewhere, I'm tired of subsidizing that kind of failure.
I wish it had been written into our Consitution that our natural environment must be protected. To denigrate our air and water for profit should be illegal.
We will probably never see the kind of paradigm shift needed without a concise national energy policy. Not going to hop on a political stump here because I'm not sure there is a horse in the race that will come up with one anyway. We're all to blame in the end. We are all responsible for the demand. Big oil simply finds the most profitable way to fill that demand. We turn our noses up at the methods (which are insane, btw) and then go fill our tank, thankful that the price is only $3.50 instead of $10.00. Politicians won't touch the big picture because its political suicide. Big oil has the money. It's customers (us), who love driving to the store for our million mile salad, have the votes. Neither group is interested in a transition that might crimp our style in the short term and, God forbid, make us change our habits in the long run. Oh yea, there's also that pesky little problem of not having any technology that even comes close to doing what oil does for us...
SteveinMN
8-11-12, 10:43am
We turn our noses up at the methods (which are insane, btw) and then go fill our tank, thankful that the price is only $3.50 instead of $10.00. Politicians won't touch the big picture because its political suicide. Big oil has the money. It's customers (us), who love driving to the store for our million mile salad, have the votes.
Makes one wonder how this same country was able to conserve successfully during the Second World War (meatless days, recycling metal,...) -- and everyone did it. It was the power of public perception that this had value. We seem to have lost that. And, as you say, it is political suicide to discuss a matter that not addressing will -- in the end -- be suicidal.
ApatheticNoMore
8-11-12, 11:16am
28 may be a big step forward for America, but in Europe, where they're paying US$8-10 for a gallon of gasoline and driving vehicles that routinely get 60+ mpg (or, better, riding bicycles or using mass transit), they're laughing at such optimism.
In Europe they are also taking vacations across the ocean, I know because I see such Europeans every day (ok maybe not all of them, and quite frankly not from the countries that are going bankrupt, and maybe only the rich people even from the richer countries, I don't know). As an American I take a few plane trips a decade and feel guilty about that and so plan more and more of my vacations to take public transport instead (maybe I should start taking cruises :~)). My fuel is burned getting to a job I hate I guess. Public transport takes nearly 3 hours (and that's trains not busses) to get to and from the job every day. And so while I'm a huge supporter of such public transport I have ceased seeing it as an entire answer to anything (because how many people will choose 3 hours commuting on the train if the car takes 2 - although the train can be a somewhat interesting experience - ok I'm talking myself into taking it *ocassionally* again just due to the mildly interesting factor, nothing else :)). But the Europeans spend 3 hours commuting to and from their jobs everyday ... why can't we be like them? Oh like heck they do, now the Japanese, they ACTUALLY DO!!! So maybe they would be a good example. Big train commuters and their commutes are running an hour or more on the train each way. They are even more into to the portable electronics/computers (iPads etc.). than we are, because they want to make that daily several hours spent on the train enjoyable.
We're all to blame in the end. We are all responsible for the demand. Big oil simply finds the most profitable way to fill that demand. We turn our noses up at the methods (which are insane, btw) and then go fill our tank, thankful that the price is only $3.50 instead of $10.00.
We are reponsible to some degree for the SUPPLY as well. We don't protest this stuff when it's happening in our backyard, we don't lobby our states and localities to stop it. And we should.
Unfortunately there don't seem to be easy answers that can satisfy all concerns. The natural gas recovered from fracking is providing a new energy source and has started to compete with coal, which is a dirty fuel for the environment. http://www.npr.org/2012/07/15/156814490/from-coal-to-gas-the-potential-risks-and-rewards
On the surface, it certainly doesn't seem right, but like Gregg said, the oil companies are only satisfying the consumer demand and they don't seem to be violating any laws. So who is to blame? I keep coming back to the Walt Kelly "Pogo" comic strip quote that was used for the first earth day celebration, "We have met the enemy and he is us".
I see this as a something at the personal level, but also keeping on the politicians to move to renewable energy, better mass transit, and reviews of energy policies. When I cast my vote, environment trumps all other issues. To me it is something beyond immediate needs to providing a legacy to our future generations.
ApatheticNoMore
8-11-12, 12:06pm
On the surface, it certainly doesn't seem right, but like Gregg said, the oil companies are only satisfying the consumer demand and they don't seem to be violating any laws. So who is to blame?
the laws, why is destroying water supplies even legal?
Actually I do understand trade-offs in order to get some energy etc. etc. (I don't personally get particularly upset at birds in windmills for instance, because got a cleaner energy source?). And discussion of trade-offs would be all very well and fine if I viewed these decisions being made on the basis of rational consideration and debate, a discussion of: "how can we have a decent future, prevent excessive climate change, preserve resources for the future, and still have some energy". This should be *the* national discussion, it eclipses everything. But I simply don't see decisions made that way, I see greed and short term profits being allowed to have their way NO MATTER the long term cost. And foaming rage is the only sensible response to that.
Really why is destroying the water supplies, the oceans, etc., even legal?
the laws, why is destroying water supplies even legal?
...
Really why is destroying the water supplies, the oceans, etc., even legal?
Because corporate lobbyists have a stranglehold on Congress?
Really why is destroying the water supplies, the oceans, etc., even legal?
Because we allow it.
Really why is destroying the water supplies, the oceans, etc., even legal?
I guess ultimately the collective we make the laws. I care and you care, but I sometimes think most people are oblivious, or would rather have cheap fossil fuel based luxuries and other stuff regardless of the cost to the environment. That's the only thing I can figure. I don't know...do you think the average reality TV fan has any sort of connection to these things?
If my memory serves me right, Mitt doesn't even think global warming is related to man's activities, and he's neck and neck in the polls with the next best thing.
Really why is destroying the water supplies, the oceans, etc., even legal?
Because many of these things are simply "the commons," and not owned by any one jurisdiction. Who owns the Ogallala Aquifer, for example? Nobody. No single owner, therefore no laws to protect it. And if there were any movement -- any -- toward a situation that would rectify that, there would be ear-splitting shrieks of socialism from every corner. Local jurisdictions can do something, but they won't, not as long as the life-giving dollars from energy companies keep flowing into their communities.
Someone needs to find a legal angle to attack this from. Probably already are, somewhere. I pray that's so.
Topics like this don't even fizz me anymore. I think, "if we're so fricken stupid, carry on". Exploit, sell-off, and rape all you can, the faster the better, so the clock-hands on the ultimate death clock can commence, not that the clock-hands haven't already started...
But let's punish common everyday consumers, and phase-out incandescent light bulbs. LOL!
Until mankind smartens-up and looks at adopting a more "Jetson" (cartoon) styled existence, we're doomed...
First, we muddied-up our own planet (Earth), then we progressed to muddying-up another planet and it's surrounding atmosphere (the Moon).
We just don't learn...
To add, what a godsend it is that we all don't conduct ourselves in the same fashion as our glorious politicians do!
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