View Full Version : If you could design your town what would you include?
Frugalifec
10-11-12, 10:48pm
In a few years I'll be in a spot where I can downsize again. I want to get back to living in a 500 square foot cabin in a wooded area with some kind of view and sunlight. Also, I got to thinking about what kinds of things I would look for in the area so here is my dream list so far:
Extensive bike trails that would allow for no car
Public transportation
Parks
Good library or group of libraries that work together as a system
Sunny weather with mild winters
Near the mountains for hiking/skiing
Near water for kayak/canoeing
Low crime rate
Maybe a college town... I just like feel and optimism they seem to bring
Volunteer opportunities... I like the people I meet in those situations
A sustainable minded community
So what would you add to the list and where have you found the best balance of these things? And what things would you avoid?
iris lily
10-11-12, 11:33pm
In a few years I'll be in a spot where I can downsize again. I want to get back to living in a 500 square foot cabin in a wooded area with some kind of view and sunlight. Also, I got to thinking about what kinds of things I would look for in the area so here is my dream list so far:
Extensive bike trails that would allow for no car
Public transportation
Parks
Good library or group of libraries that work together as a system
Sunny weather with mild winters
Near the mountains for hiking/skiing
Near water for kayak/canoeing
Low crime rate
Maybe a college town... I just like feel and optimism they seem to bring
Volunteer opportunities... I like the people I meet in those situations
A sustainable minded community
So what would you add to the list and where have you found the best balance of these things? And what things would you avoid?
Midwestern college towns are great in that there's a lot going on for the size of the city. Iowa city and Lawrence come to mind as pretty nice. Real estate is higher there though than in other towns that don't have the big colleges.
So what would you add to the list . . .
Sidewalks.
I would model it after the small towns in Germany where my relatives live. Some of the features:
- space between towns, no running together like our large metro areas
- public transit, easy to walk everywhere including the train station to get to other towns
- small shops that supply needs (e.g. bakery, butcher, hardware, etc), as opposed to the kitschy shops that tend to line our walkable areas.
- natural areas included within the town - not just ball fields and playgrounds in the parks, but beautiful landscaped and natural areas.
ToomuchStuff
10-12-12, 8:43am
Years back I read about someone designing a suburb to a major town. They were doing some different things, like having all the houses face each other and the garages were only accessible via the back sides, where the streets were. The front of the houses would face one another and the lawns would then be more park like with sidewalks and the like so the neighbors actually got to know one another. I always thought that was a good idea. I would also put in the right to put up clotheslines and a few other things that tend to get disallowed by HOA's. (while disallowing some things like fences in the front yards to not screw up the park like setting)
My suburb has most of what was listed, save separate bike paths--though the Burke-Gilman trail is not far away. Like martha, I'd add sidewalks on the major arterial. But what I really want is the extensive development long promised to us, where the waterfront would be transformed with a big park and trails and a multi-use installation (condos, shops) with tax abatement would take over several blocks currently occupied by parking lots and empty storefronts bought up in anticipation of this wonderful new neighborhood. After fifteen years or so of promises, the whole plan ended with a whimper. There's development all over the place in surrounding towns, so I don't buy the "lousy economy" excuse. This is already an exceptionally nice place to live, but the development--as originally promised--would have made it idyllic.
Your list is my list. In many ways, the neighborhood I currently live in has all those things and feels like a village. However, if one leaves and enters the rest of the city, there is a lot of missed opportunities. DH and I just returned from a trip to several towns in the west as I want to move back to the mountains within a few years. We were impressed with some of the smaller towns because they actually had veloways/walkways separated from the streets and highways. They wove through the side streets of town (usually along rivers) so that one could get places easily by bike or foot. The bummer was that in all towns they had let the big box chains take over edges which turned those areas into ugly spots with crazy traffic. I guess the tax revenue justifies that sort of thing to city leaders:(
decemberlov
10-12-12, 9:49am
Our neighborhood has most of what's listed as well. Part of why well fell in love with the area. There are side walks on every street which makes it wonderful for the kids riding their bikes. All within a short biking distance is a park with a lake (the kids in our town ice skate here in the winter), a small corner store, a library, Broad Street is a few blocks away with a few little restaurants, a church and a bunch of little shops, an antique store etc. It's a cute historical little town with lots a gorgeous Victorian homes and older houses and a great sense of community. They have lots of art festivals and parades throughout the year on Broad St. and it's always fun to ride our bikes up and spend an afternoon there with the kids. What I would love to see there is a coffee shop / used book store and a theatre...which we may get..there is some talk of turning the old opera house into a movie theatre so we'll see :)
I'd take everything the OP has but add in close to the ocean and sandy beaches (I play beach volleyball and sail) as well as lakes and rivers. 4 seasons with snow in winter, crisp blustery weather and foliage colors in fall, and rainy spring with lots of wild flowers, and hot humid summers with giant thunderstorms. A small city environment too (less than 100K people - maybe more if it was an isolated city like Anchorage Alaska with it's limited sprawl) as I wouldn't want to be out in the boonies far from everything. I tiny house/cabin/condo/apt (prefer a condo as I don't like maintence and want a place I can just lock and leave for months at a time) within walking and biking distance to all the small city stuff. I also like very old historic sites and buildings so would most likely prefer Europe or the east coast or mid-atlantic parts of the US.
awakenedsoul
10-12-12, 10:15pm
I have everything on your list. It's just not a very good neighborhood. I love the old cities in Europe, too. Hopefully this neighborhood will improve someday.
I'd like to live in an area that is drug free. I'd like to be around people who are fit, financially secure, positive, and healthy.
JaneV2.0
10-12-12, 10:35pm
Oh, people we would like to live around? Kind, funny, smart, happy, creative animal lovers.
A recycling centre, or does it matter? I'm beginning to think it's all a big sham anyway...
ToomuchStuff
10-13-12, 1:28pm
A recycling centre, or does it matter? I'm beginning to think it's all a big sham anyway...
Depends on the sort of recycling. Around here, with multiple metal recycling centers, metal theft is really up the last few years. When I was a kid, no one would have ever thought about putting cages around a/c units.
Wanted to note that a number of permaculturists and sustainability oriented people are discovering it's better to be in a sustainability oriented town than the woods.
Sustainability oriented
South facing backyard for good food gardens
Avoids having anti-green laws such as no clotheslines/gardens/compost
Bonus if bees, chickens allowed
Good walkscore
People who are interested in reskilling
If you have any special interests, some people/groups who enjoy those as well
Eco-friendly outlets, to afford residents chemical-free choices for cleaning, etc, and alternatives to disposable products.
Would love to hear Catherine's ideas Re:! Will try and round her up.
Calling... Catherine! Catherine! Ohhh... C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E!
Wildflower
2-8-13, 12:47am
A recycling centre, or does it matter? I'm beginning to think it's all a big sham anyway...
Curious as to why you think that, Mrs-M? Sometimes it crosses my mind too...
Wildflower. I was reading an article that made mention of a recycling program that was in place in a community, yet the community, after gathering and receiving all of the waste, simply bulldozed it under. As in all together. No separating, no nothing. I lost all faith after that.
I would also love to incorporate a few old-fashioned things to my town, like milk-delivery, just like it used to be, when fresh milk was dropped off at the front doors of homes in clear glass bottles, and diaper service.
How about you, Wildflower? What is your reason behind occasionally questioning or doubting the honesty behind recycling?
I'd also have a pedicab service, too!
Eco-friendly outlets, to afford residents chemical-free choices for cleaning, etc, and alternatives to disposable products.
Would love to hear Catherine's ideas Re:! Will try and round her up.
Calling... Catherine! Catherine! Ohhh... C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E!
Geez--Mrs-M, you woke me up!! It's 3:22am here in NJ--can't you let a woman sleep?? :)
No, I just came downstairs when I heard the TV still on--DH fell asleep with it on, so now I'm awake.
As for the topic at hand... I think a lot if people covered what I like. And my perfect town so far has been the town on the Jersey Shore I always talk about--Ocean Grove. That's because it:
--is on the ocean
--was designed intentionally so that as many residents as possible can benefit from the view and the breezes (there are no big waterfront homes or condos--all the beach blocks have houses facing each other, but situated on their lots so that houses down the block can get a view, too
--beautiful boardwalk for walking, running, or just plain sitting and watching the waves.
--has an old fashioned main street with restaurants, shops and services. Nothing more than what's needed, nothing less.
--historic landmark status, so no tearing stuff down and replacing good stuff with new-for-the-sake-of-new
--you can walk to main street from anywhere in the town, easily, as it is one square mile. Here's it's walk score (http://www.walkscore.com/score/Ocean-Grove-NJ)
--you can also walk to the train and NYC is accessible that way
--the people are very community minded, friendly and active. You walk down any street and people are on front porches stopping you to talk.
If I could make it even better, maybe I'd try to find a spot for a community garden. Since it was built as a beach town, there's not a whole lot of open space, and yards are postage stamps. Also, maybe I'd situate it a tad closer to a college town. But it's pretty good as it is.
I'd also have a pedicab service, too!
Here's the Pedicab service that was running in and around my neighborhood for several years.
http://www.stlouisrickshaw.com/
The operator was Eric Brende who wrote one of the simple living bibles, Better Off: Flipping the Switch on Technology.
ROTFLMAO, Catherine!!!
I love the sounds of historic landmark status. Not only should it apply to the industrial and business sector, it's should also apply to old neighbourhoods, rich in history and charm.
Thanks for the link, Iris! Ever since, Tammy, posted about it, I can't get it out of my mind. So neat-O that you had such a thing in your area. Did you ever take a ride?
Another addition to my town that I'd have, is dedicated walking/cycling trails. The main trail would encompass the entire community, and would be paved for ease of use, etc. However, for the more adventurous, additional trails would finger-out from the main trail, directing people to hiking trails, lookout points, and other destinations, such as fresh water streams and lakes, where people could go for a nature swim, fish, and so on.
Another thing I'd do, is devote special days (each year) to frugal/simple things, such as, clothesline drying day, etc, to help with awareness/promoting.
To add, even though I would not be about restrictions... NO McMANSIONS ALLOWED!
Was also just thinking about "Garden Walk Day" that we have in our community, where visitors can walk and view private gardens made available to the public specially for the occasion.
Need a community garden space, some farmers markets, lots of trees (sorry IL,:devil: I love my trees for shade, birds, and beauty).
Yes, Razz... LOTS of trees! I''ll never understand the attraction of buying into a treeless subdivision! No charm... no character...
How about you, Wildflower? What is your reason behind occasionally questioning or doubting the honesty behind recycling?
Well, recently I heard about a local grocery store that was taking in shoppers used plastic sacks to recycle, until an employee let it be known that they weren't actually recycling them, but just throwing them away. Got me to thinking about other recycling services possibly being shams. :( We pay extra here for recycling, and I worry that it's not really going to where it needs to go, and possibly just being dumped in the landfill with everything else.
Need a community garden space, some farmers markets, lots of trees (sorry IL,:devil: I love my trees for shade, birds, and beauty).
Ditto to all of the above! :+1:
Would be so awesome to have a Farmers Market in walking distance!
One thing my husband's home town in SC has that I would love is horse riding paths. A lot of the properties still have stables in the back yard with easy access to the trails.
ToomuchStuff
2-9-13, 2:05pm
To add, even though I would not be about restrictions... NO McMANSIONS ALLOWED!
You want parks,trails, places for people to walk and meet, yet you don't want any homes large enough for events in bad weather,by people who can afford them? (there are people who can't afford small homes, so I am not talking about people with financial issues).
Well, recently I heard about a local grocery store that was taking in shoppers used plastic sacks to recycle, until an employee let it be known that they weren't actually recycling them, but just throwing them away. Got me to thinking about other recycling services possibly being shams. :( We pay extra here for recycling, and I worry that it's not really going to where it needs to go, and possibly just being dumped in the landfill with everything else.
Here, you pay extra for some recycling, and if you watch the trash trucks, it goes in the same truck to the same location. There has always been some recycling, from smiths who reused stuff, to metal/plastic/etc in current production items. But I believe it is all about money, not really about reusing.
Originally posted by ToomuchStuff.
You want parks,trails, places for people to walk and meet, yet you don't want any homes large enough for events in bad weather,by people who can afford them? (there are people who can't afford small homes, so I am not talking about people with financial issues).Reflecting from experience, few homeowners are willing parties to hosting and entertaining crowds... that's what community centres and public gathering places are for.
Yes, there would be an absolute building restriction in my town as to max size of house people could build. Homes would be average sized (or under), and IMO that would help send a clear message to all wannabee McMansion builders, find another neighbourhood/town to live where you can compete with other McMansion wanabees.
My town/community would be about the people, and a better way of life, not about bling and flashiness, or outdoing others. Besides, as I previously mentioned, I would have special frugal/living days reserved for promoting simple living practices, which I'm sure wouldn't go over well with McMansion owners anyhow... Clotheslines and such would tarnish their image so badly.
ToomuchStuff
2-11-13, 1:04am
Reflecting from experience, few homeowners are willing parties to hosting and entertaining crowds... that's what community centres and public gathering places are for.
Yes, there would be an absolute building restriction in my town as to max size of house people could build. Homes would be average sized (or under), and IMO that would help send a clear message to all wannabee McMansion builders, find another neighbourhood/town to live where you can compete with other McMansion wanabees.
My town/community would be about the people, and a better way of life, not about bling and flashiness, or outdoing others. Besides, as I previously mentioned, I would have special frugal/living days reserved for promoting simple living practices, which I'm sure wouldn't go over well with McMansion owners anyhow... Clotheslines and such would tarnish their image so badly.
People can surprise you. I had an interesting talk with a friend of mine, and he was reminiscing about clotheslines and lack of a/c's and such growing up. Now he wouldn't be without a/c, but there are aspects that he wouldn't mind having back, if it weren't for things like paparazzi.
I have also known some "celebrities" (others call them that, to me they are just other people I have known), who think they shouldn't be around little people such as ourselves.
Using the same brush for all, makes us the same as those who choose not to live simple lives and look down at us. I understand the viewpoint, but think it is a waste.
Originally posted by ToomuchStuff.
I understand the viewpoint, but think it is a waste.A waste? Not by a long-shot. Society has no problem with setting strict criteria related to the minimum size of home one can build in exclusive/higher-end subdivisions, so I see no problem with setting guidelines and applicable restrictions to counter.
Exclusivity, IMO, particularly from the standpoint of establishing a simple/frugal neighbourhood/town/subdivision, and leaving the merry-go-round out of it, means people interested in establishing themselves in a more comfortable, quaint, quiet, and relaxed environment, can do so, free of any criticism, and that to me is well worth every ounce of idealism related to restricting outside influences that could offset/upset the comfort level of such an establishment.
ToomuchStuff
2-12-13, 2:34am
Like I said, I understand the viewpoint, the waste point means just flipping one prejudice for the other. I would prefer getting to the point where people can let others live as they like, without all the hassle.
This is just a different form of a homeowners association in my mind, and lives are not always fixed, nor are values.
Originally posted by ToomuchStuff.
I would prefer getting to the point where people can let others live as they likeThat is a given, however, you and I both know that it doesn't work that way, not even close...
Originally posted by ToomuchStuff.
This is just a different form of a homeowners association in my mindIn many regards, yes, it is, but I still stand firm and strong behind my belief that, exclusivity, would be the prevailing factor Re: such a community. I'd much rather enjoy the successes of, as compared to a community falling victim to the excesses of.
You're describing where we live in wellington, nz. ;)
Heaven, it is, Zoebird! :)
Our neighborhood, btw, has a 480 sq ft run down cottage right next to a 1.5 million dollar "average sized large american house" (or what is a big house in NZ). So, we get along no problems. ;)
Zoebird. I'm OK with it... if you and ToomuchStuff, want to ostracize me from your blending idea, however, if DH and I had the means to afford a $1.5 million dollar home, I can tell you, under no uncertain terms or circumstances would I want to reside next to a rundown cottage, and I'm fairly certain those who have reached such success milestones in their lives, wouldn't either... As I mentioned, feel free to ostracize me.
"ostracism" is a really strong word, Mrs. M. Why did you choose it?
I honestly don't know how to respond because your values might be different than someone else's in terms of spending your $1.5mil. But, I'll explain why we would consider living next to a rundown cottage.
Part of it is that this community has never been planned. It has always been independent plots of land where people bought and build based on what they could afford and/or wanted. Plots are divided and sub divided, and people build what they can afford.
Over the years, the land is taken up, and so now people are buying existing houses on plots of land. Some of those existing houses that were built between 1890 and 1950 are mansions and some of them are workmans cottages -- and everything in between, all side-by-side. And some people renovate what they buy, and other people knock-down and build. It's based on what the buyer can afford.
The next part is "how would I spend my 1.5mil?" Well, as ever, it's up to you. But there are houses here that run between $1-4mil.
You might want to ask *why* the properties cost that much?
A. beach/waterfront land;
B. 15 minute drive from capital city;
C. great schools, low crime;
D. multiple-generations of families live in this neighborhood (ie, our landlady has 3 children, two of them have houses here. Three of her niece/nephews live in their neighborhood as well -- all with their children).
E. the housing itself.
Lets take a quick look, in particular, at E.
The biggest thing with homes in our neighborhood is land-value. Like in many US cities, the closer you live in the city the more densely populated and the more expensive the neighborhood is. It's just plain old land-value, regardless of the house itself. The same is true here.
When our house was last evaluated, it came up at $250k. But, I discovered from our landlady that it was recently re-evaluated at $600k. The house value? $10k. If she sells it, it's definitely a "knock down." That's how it's perceived.
But I look at my budget. I might be able to squeak a $600k mortgage in a few more years. *Squeak* Which means that this house will stay this way until I could afford to knock down and build.
Now lets talk about a build. It's expensive in NZ. Smaller homes made well can still cost $500k (like a 1000 sq ft home with insulation and vapor barriers and double glazed windows and so on -- i'm not even talking about nice floors and fancy kitchen counters). So say I build that house. now, I have a house worth $600k in land value and $500k in home value. That's $1.1 mil.
So, say that I want to stay here because of A-C. For my D, I have lots of friends in the neighborhood, and we enjoy the "hollywood" flavor that floats in and out (without having to deal with any actual holly-wood-ness). Perhaps it just feels like "home" for us.
But, you know, perhaps I buy this cottage and stay in it until I can afford to build. And perhaps my neighbor -- as she has on the one side of my house -- decided after 40 years of owning a property, where she raised her children and in the neighborhood where her children are raising her grandchildren, she wants to build her dream home. And perhaps my other neighbor -- also in an old cottage -- decides that she wants to knock down hers and build, too.
Who are any of us to say to the other what s/he should do with her house? her land? her build? her money?
Sure, I could take that $600k for the land value and go to a rural part of the south island and buy hundreds of acres. then take $500k and build a rural, off-grid property. I wouldn't have to 'look at' any run-down, knock down cottages. But I also wouldn't have my neighborhood, access to my city, etc.
And sure, there are other options besides. I can go to the outter suburbs and buy bigger houses on smaller properties (but larger than here). Or I could move to another city and go into a neighborhood with mansions all around. You know, I would have options.
But I might just opt to stay here -- in a neighborhood of run-down cottages as well as fancy new "mansions" (they aren't really mansions. I think a couple of them head toward the 4000 sq ft mark -- the older ones from the 1920s/30s -- most, like my landlady's house, is probably sitting in around 2400 sq ft?).
Because I like it here, and that's part of what it costs to live here, to an extent.
I mean, it was a shocker when we went and saw a place just a few doors down that was a reno'd 1928, 3-bed, one bath, 800 sq ft house running in at $750k. And that was even considered a 'knock down.' I know the family who bought it. They would knock it down, if they could afford it. But they can't, so it stays as-is. It's in good condition, though, and it's cute. . . so. Yeah.
Wildflower
2-17-13, 3:12am
There is a lake community a few miles from where I live. It's a combination of tiny little cottages, mid-size homes, and huge, very expensive homes. They all sit on plots around the lake. Beautiful scenery. Rarely does anyone sell there, and everyone seems to be ok with the variety of lifestyles and homes there. I like it. And I would love to live in one of the tiny cottages there on the lake. That would be heaven in my book. Alot of the cottages date back to the 1920's. There was never anything planned about this community. It was whoever bought their plot/piece of land could build whatever they wanted .... It works there and I liked the variety of people I have met while visiting a friend who lives there. Every home is unique too. No two alike. I like that too. They do have a community center building where everyone meets quarterly, and everyone pays lake dues to keep up the area and to have boating access. This is not a vacation home area either. People live here fulltime. Very close to the city, so convenient for commuting to work, grocery shopping, etc.
So in some respects, I'm thinking an unplanned community might be a better place to live overall. Just give me a library and a Farmers Market nearby and I would be happy. :)
I lived in a suburban neighborhood when transferred to NC. My take on the suburbs, Stepford Wives. It seemed that everyone was the same and wore the same clothes, same haircuts, same children, same activities, etc. They seemed to have very little in their lives but going to work and striving hard to fit into the exact mold given.
Give me diversity. Diversity of thought, religion, interests, income, etc. When we moved back, we moved downtown and deliberately tried to stay away from the price and income segregated neighborhoods in our city. It helps that I like a lot of people around.
ApatheticNoMore
2-17-13, 10:38am
if DH and I had the means to afford a $1.5 million dollar home, I can tell you, under no uncertain terms or circumstances would I want to reside next to a rundown cottage, and I'm fairly certain those who have reached such success milestones in their lives, wouldn't either... As I mentioned, feel free to ostracize me.
A lot closer to how it actually works yea, of course why limit consideration to 1.5 million dollar homes, that really doesn't buy all that much, why not militiple millions? And you can't you maintain the elite public schools if your have people who only have the means to buy run down cottages moving in next door, there goes the neighborhood! Really when a neighborhood is upscale it tends to get more so, and nearly every house grows into a mcmansion even if it wasn't originally. And while I have known people with mansions who shared them with the hoi polloi, it's pretty rare, they socialize in different crowds. Community centers are for the hoi polloi afterall (actually often for the poor really whom the middle class don't socialize with that much either).
There is a lake community a few miles from where I live. It's a combination of tiny little cottages, mid-size homes, and huge, very expensive homes. They all sit on plots around the lake. Beautiful scenery. Rarely does anyone sell there, and everyone seems to be ok with the variety of lifestyles and homes there. I like it. And I would love to live in one of the tiny cottages there on the lake. That would be heaven in my book. Alot of the cottages date back to the 1920's. There was never anything planned about this community. It was whoever bought their plot/piece of land could build whatever they wanted .... It works there and I liked the variety of people I have met while visiting a friend who lives there. Every home is unique too. No two alike. I like that too. They do have a community center building where everyone meets quarterly, and everyone pays lake dues to keep up the area and to have boating access. This is not a vacation home area either. People live here fulltime. Very close to the city, so convenient for commuting to work, grocery shopping, etc.
So in some respects, I'm thinking an unplanned community might be a better place to live overall. Just give me a library and a Farmers Market nearby and I would be happy. :)This is how the town I use to live in is - Big Bear Lake, Ca. Giant multi-million dollar mansions (Oscar De La Hoya - who sold his place for 2.5 mil - and Mike Tyson are just a few of the rich and famous with homes there) next to tiny one room log cabins from the 1920's next to a geodome house next to modern chalet. All tucked in a small valley around a lake surrounded by mountains together. I personally love it like that and it makes walking around the community very interesting. And of course very wealthy communities like Newport, RI or the Hamptons on Long Island often have small homes next to their vast estates since those smaller towns and communities were there long before the rich built their summer "cottages" of 20,000 sf :-)!
However, as Mrs M pointed out, there are alot of reasons to limit the size (limit bigger not smaller) of new homes or re-does in a community - including height restrictions that may block views. It often helps preserve a certain character or charm of a town or area - especially a historic area - and is common to have such building estrictions in many places. For instance, here in my hood you can't build anything taller than a 2 story house - and that was only changed recently from nothing taller than a one story house. The reason, to prevent overcrowding (vietnamese community with multi-generational living), to preserve the asetetics of the neighborhood for everyone in the community, and also fro environmental reasons. The same is done with the businesses here - nothing taller then 2 stories. No high rises or office buildings or manufacturing plants that are bigger then that.
I lived in a suburban neighborhood when transferred to NC. My take on the suburbs, Stepford Wives. It seemed that everyone was the same and wore the same clothes, same haircuts, same children, same activities, etc. They seemed to have very little in their lives but going to work and striving hard to fit into the exact mold given.
Give me diversity. Diversity of thought, religion, interests, income, etc. When we moved back, we moved downtown and deliberately tried to stay away from the price and income segregated neighborhoods in our city. It helps that I like a lot of people around.
When I think of suburbs I also envision Stepford (and cringe at the thought of it). For a more working class suburb I envision the neighborhood from the movie "Edward Scissorhands". So typical 1950's/1960's it makes me cringe even more! But in a very funny way. It felt exactly like the neighborhoods we lived in as kids, with almost the same exact stereotyplical lifestyle of lower middle or working class familiy. Give me diversity any day!!
So in some respects, I'm thinking an unplanned community might be a better place to live overall. Just give me a library and a Farmers Market nearby and I would be happy. :)
I'm working on getting a farmer's market developed for our neighborhood -- hosting it twice a week eventually is the big goal. I have a connection in the US who made one in our old town (also an unplanned community with hovels to mansions!), and so i'm getting a business plan together and starting to connect with vendors. I think if we could do twice a week, it would be awesome.
We're also working on getting our raw dairy farmer to put a drop in our neighborhood, and I was thinking that we might work on a book exchange to start out (possibly as part of the farmers market.
When I think of suburbs I also envision Stepford (and cringe at the thought of it). For a more working class suburb I envision the neighborhood from the movie "Edward Scissorhands". So typical 1950's/1960's it makes me cringe even more! But in a very funny way. It felt exactly like the neighborhoods we lived in as kids, with almost the same exact stereotyplical lifestyle of lower middle or working class familiy. Give me diversity any day!!
If there's any real conformity around here in my woodsy suburb I'm oblivious to it. Houses can be pricey, depending on proximity to the lake, but this is a solidly middle-class area. No two houses are alike, and best of all there are no HOAs, which would be high on the list of must-haves in my fantasy neighborhood. I've lived in a tiny resort town, city neighborhoods (including downtown Portland and downtown Bellevue), and a couple of suburbs, and I'm firmly in the close-in suburb camp. Mostly for the scenery, but also for low crime rates and the potential for peace and quiet. I'm perfectly happy to be far from the action.
ETA: I'm pretty sure I'm within a stone's throw of both $200K houses and a $1M ones. It works here...
In terms of building restrictions, I find it a struggle to actually have those. Height restrictions for light/views/etc I can do. But, size restrictions are a struggle for me on both ends (on the high end, as a matter of personal freedom, on the low end as a matter of personal freedom/practicality).
If I did everything that I want to do sustainability wise, it would require having a much smaller, more efficient house. Reason being that the materials and expertise and specialized systems that need to be built into it before you even get to the house . . . cost money.
I would like:
A. rainwater collection and cistern system with filtration;
B. grey water recycling;
C. grey water natural run-off (rather than piping out -- going into the earth);
D. composting toilet with methane gas processor (which will be connected to cooking and heating in the home);
E. wind power (there's this really cool roof-top coil design used in chicago that would be more efficient in our venue than a "stand alone/over to the side of the house windmill) -- and wind power over solar based on our location.
F. making sure that the build and systems work well and have some earthquake protection (and that i can learn how to repair/maintain/etc them).
From there, I'd like as many natural materials as possible -- with as little processing "chemicals" in them (like formaldehyde in kitchen cabinets). And of course, high-efficiency windows, etc -- using the denim/wool insulation, etc.
This would mean, therefore, that to build the house as eco as I would like, the majority of the money would go toward these various systems and materials, rather than going to the square footage of the house. And, it would go to the architect/interior architect/designer to make it work. As well as builders who can work in this more "carpenter" way.
This is where the difficulty around the sizing restrictions come in -- particularly with small homes. What if we could only afford a beautifully built, eco-friendly 400 sq ft? But it was efficient and could work for our family? And has all of these amenities that we want and would create for us a truly off-grid, self-sufficient house?
In many communities/neighborhoods/towns -- that's not allowed. It's too small. Some neighborhoods *will* allow you to do 800 sq ft as a minimum, but . . . that might be too expensive to build, you know?
And, then, it also begs the question -- would it be better to renovate what we have? or would that cost as much and still be as inefficient?
I have seen smaller homes here on our street that -- with a good interior architect -- would be better served than being a knock-down IMO. And some of our homes/cottages are protected here -- such as Pilot's Cottage -- which is something like 350 sq ft.
Anyway. . . :D
Well, recently I heard about a local grocery store that was taking in shoppers used plastic sacks to recycle, until an employee let it be known that they weren't actually recycling them, but just throwing them away. Got me to thinking about other recycling services possibly being shams. :( We pay extra here for recycling, and I worry that it's not really going to where it needs to go, and possibly just being dumped in the landfill with everything else.
Here a couple of grocery stores (now I think it's down to one, thought) has a huge metal box outsdie of the entrance. You put in your sacks to recycl. You take some out if you need some. I am a taker not a giver of these.
Originally posted by Spartana.
there are alot of reasons to limit the size (limit bigger not smaller) of new homes or re-does in a community - including height restrictions that may block views. It often helps preserve a certain character or charm of a town or area - especially a historic areaBingo! Allowing anything/everything, defeats the sole purpose behind having an exclusive neighbourhood/town.
A lot closer to how it actually works yea, of course why limit consideration to 1.5 million dollar homes, that really doesn't buy all that much, why not militiple millions? And you can't you maintain the elite public schools if your have people who only have the means to buy run down cottages moving in next door, there goes the neighborhood! Really when a neighborhood is upscale it tends to get more so, and nearly every house grows into a mcmansion even if it wasn't originally. And while I have known people with mansions who shared them with the hoi polloi, it's pretty rare, they socialize in different crowds. Community centers are for the hoi polloi afterall (actually often for the poor really whom the middle class don't socialize with that much either).The neighbourhood/town you describe sounds fine, too, if that is what you are interested in. Personally, I was looking to create something unique in the sense of a frugal/simple neighbourhood/town, one that exudes a quaint, warm, and welcome feel about it, not one that harvests a mucky-muck crowd that looks down the bridges of their noses at everyone lesser than.
Additionally, with a unique and original town/community (outside the box of showy homes, etc) comes unique ideas and extensions in the way of funded monies for entrepreneurial endeavors, equating to a unique opportunity to create new business related to greener choices and alternatives, which of course would mean jobs/employment/opportunity, and, the possibility of becoming a hub for, and a leader of, innovation.
If there's any real conformity around here in my woodsy suburb I'm oblivious to it. Houses can be pricey, depending on proximity to the lake, but this is a solidly middle-class area. No two houses are alike, and best of all there are no HOAs, which would be high on the list of must-haves in my fantasy neighborhood. I've lived in a tiny resort town, city neighborhoods (including downtown Portland and downtown Bellevue), and a couple of suburbs, and I'm firmly in the close-in suburb camp. Mostly for the scenery, but also for low crime rates and the potential for peace and quiet. I'm perfectly happy to be far from the action.
ETA: I'm pretty sure I'm within a stone's throw of both $200K houses and a $1M ones. It works here...
Your city may have some pretty strict zoning laws and building codes that keep the houses in your 'hood from either getting too big or too small (or allow trailers, etc..) irregardless of price. That's the case in most places even if there are no HOA. Those laws may prevent your next door neighbors from building a 5 story condo complex or giant McMansion (ala Dave Ramsey) that is just a couple of feet from your property line. Or putting in a couple of old mobile homes and outhouses.
That's the case in my very Edward Scissorhandish 1950's tract 'hood. It's one of those places where all the houses are alike - one story, 1000 sf, 2 car garage on a bit over a 1/4 acre of land. For the first 40 years of it's life, I image the 'hood stayed exactly the same. However in the last 10 years many of the homes have been razed and new giant McMansions have been built on site next to the tiny little houses. Those McMansions litterally abut the entire property line of the houses next door to it and the house behind it. They often have several apts units attached too. It completely dwarfs the smaller houses and severely invades the privacy of those people being that the McMnsions are so close (just a couple of feet from the little houses). So you can imagine what it would be like if you had one on each side of you and behind you - UGH! And the same thing is happening to all the older, and very quaint, neighborhoods with tiny Arts and Crafts bungalows from the 1920's and 1930's.
So the city - in an attempt to curb some of that type of expansion and preserve the 'hoods - has limited new house or re-habs house size to 2 two story and no more mother-in-law apts or second homes on site. But, while the houses that are built are very nice and probably do raise property values for the 'hood in general, I would go nuts if someone wanted to build something like that next to my little house. And by the same token, the city prohibits putting things like trailers, mobile homes, or manufactured homes in the 'hood that would lower the property values and possiblily be considered blight if they were not maintained. They also have codes that say you can only have a certain size driveway, must have a grass front yard, can't park your car on the grass lawn, can't have an RV parked on the street, etc... All in an effort to keep the 'hood as pleasant as possible for everyone. So while I'm like Zoebird in some ways and feel that I should be able to do whatever I want on my own property, I realize that I am living in a close-in suburban 'hood shared by many other's, and that having building codes and zoning laws, etc.. may mean my hood (and prop values) stay nice for all. Of course living in Edward Scissorhandville is not my personal idea of a great place to live but it does have a certain...er...charm that I think would be important to retain to those who own houses there.
The only time I've lived anywhere that had strict rules was when I owned a condo (and I didn't like it). Otherwise, no HOAs. Maybe they're more common in some areas of the country? If you have a rusted out car parked in your front yard (I've never seen one) and someone complains, the city will want you to put it in somewhere else. There are some rules, but not too many. One of my friends does have a few chickens over the limit... But their neighbors haven't noticed or don't mind. If you want to plant vegetables in your front yard, go for it. A house down the road from me is painted Smurf Blue (light Smurf Blue with dark Smurf Blue trim) http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/superman2.gif Seriously, everyone I know lives in nice middle-class neighborhoods with single-family zoning, no nannies, and no problems.
The only time I've lived anywhere that had strict rules was when I owned a condo (and I didn't like it). Otherwise, no HOAs. Maybe they're more common in some areas of the country? If you have a rusted out car parked in your front yard (I've never seen one) and someone complains, the city will want you to put it in somewhere else. There are some rules, but not too many. One of my friends does have a few chickens over the limit... But their neighbors haven't noticed or don't mind. If you want to plant vegetables in your front yard, go for it. A house down the road from me is painted Smurf Blue (light Smurf Blue with dark Smurf Blue trim) http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/superman2.gif Seriously, everyone I know lives in nice middle-class neighborhoods with single-family zoning, no nannies, and no problems.your 'hood sounds a lot like one I lived in in Anchorage Alaska. Lots of different types, styles and sizes of homes, but with few zoning or code laws. Everyone took a lot of pride in their places so it made it easy to live in harmony there. Doesn't seem to be the case in my area of SoCal so the city writes new ordinances to make sure homeowners don't go crazy. No HOA's but still some regulation - which undoetunately are needed nowadays. But at least we can paint our homes what ever color we want. Smurf Blue? With Lemoncello trim? Yeah that would be OK :-)!.
I have to say if I were going to design a town/neighborhood, it would be a lot like the one I'm living in--with bike and hiking trails, lots of nature, parks, proximity to thrift stores and ethnic food, a good library system, a forest or two, a lake, views, an educated population...It's not particularly walkable, and I'd like more underground utilities.
Jane, yes, i'm definitely the same. our neighborhood is great.
I have to say if I were going to design a town/neighborhood, it would be a lot like the one I'm living in--with bike and hiking trails, lots of nature, parks, proximity to thrift stores and ethnic food, a good library system, a forest or two, a lake, views, an educated population...It's not particularly walkable, and I'd like more underground utilities.And don't forget the extra bedroom for Spartana ;-)! Your area sounds so great. All the paved bike paths in Anchorage - something like 120 miles of just paved off road bike paths just in the city area that run thru beautiful greenbelts and connected a large number of city parks and the downtown area (Sweetanna and Alan know what I'm talking about) - was absolutely the best thing about living there. Of course you'd have to occasionally avoid the moose (meese?) or bears that used the city paths too. Always thrilling!
Even in the 1960s and 70s, my brother biked Anchorage all over. He even biked to the Airport as a child. (dont tell my parents). But the season is very limited. There are downsides to almost everything. We even had trails in the woods that were so heavily traveled that they were "off road bike routes". The bears and moose were not pressured by building on the hills so they rarely ever came downtown except for when food ran out in winter.
We thought buying a newer (1998) noncontributing house in a historic district would not be much of a problem. However, when we wanted to replace an energy inefficient three glass door wall on the back side of the house behind privacy walls with a 2 sized glass door with energy efficient glass, we found we had to notify over 100 people by mail and wait several months for a potential approval by a panel. This was even though their own set of plans for our house was not what was built.
In addition, the approval comes with an extra 10% fee.
We have been telling people to beware what they vote for. Note our neighbor who does live in a historic house put on an aluminum storm door on their back door without asking and unless someone reports them........
Even in the 1960s and 70s, my brother biked Anchorage all over. He even biked to the Airport as a child. (dont tell my parents). But the season is very limited. There are downsides to almost everything. We even had trails in the woods that were so heavily traveled that they were "off road bike routes". The bears and moose were not pressured by building on the hills so they rarely ever came downtown except for when food ran out in winter. Yeah the season was limited but then they would groom a lot of the paths for cross country skiing - a sport I both love and detest :-)! Nothing like being out in the frozen, icy silent bike paths skiing in the semi-gloom of mid winter! I was there in the early 1990's and it wasn't as built up then as it is now (especially towards Eagle River and also South Anchorage) so it felt like a little bit of wilderness out on the bike paths even if you were very close to the city.
After living there 25 years, I would never cross country ski without a very large gun. Those dang moose love trails and are much much bigger than me. So it always took some or most of the fun out of it for me. But everyone has their own limits. A couple of people get pretty damaged each year from such encounters.
Gardenarian
2-19-13, 5:30pm
My town has pretty much everything people have listed:
easy walkability
feels like a small town (almost rural) but near a big city
pedestrian, bike, and horse trails
minutes (walking) from boating, kayaking
mild climate
good place to garden (zone 9b - can grow almost anything)
community garden and orchard
small town center that is a few minutes walk from most homes - including library, market, weekly farmer's market, town hall
friendly - you know all your neighbors, the town council, mayor, etc.
Parks (located within a state park, and various smaller parks and playgrounds in town, including a great dog park)
Community swimming pool, tennis courts, ballfields
Volunteer opportunites (working at the state park, with local environmental groups, library, Women's Club...)
Curbside recycling
Emphasis on sustainability
Many cultural events and activities
Family and pet friendly
Very low crime rate
It is also highly diverse, in ethnicity, gender, income.
(we don't have real seasons, which bothers some people.)
Like where Zoebird lives, there are mansions next to small old cottages, but overall - very expensive. (600k - 2m+) There is a trailer park on the edge of town, and some affordable apartments, which only continue to exist because we all wanted to have affordable housing and income diversity. (otherwise it would all be developed.) Salaries are high in the area, and while real estate is expensive, once you break into the market you're pretty much set.
Silicon valley (San Jose and environs) which is nearby, has some areas that offer a lot of these amenities with somewhat lower real estate prices. San Jose is actually kind of a cool town.
Hawaii is another place that has a ton to offer, and it's not nearly as expensive to live there as many people suppose.
After living there 25 years, I would never cross country ski without a very large gun. Those dang moose love trails and are much much bigger than me. So it always took some or most of the fun out of it for me. But everyone has their own limits. A couple of people get pretty damaged each year from such encounters. I hear ya on that!! I remember having to call in to work to say I would be late because there was a moose in my driveway blocking my car. Personally I'd rather face a brown bear then a moose (with a baby) anyday. They seem to attack anything that moves! I lived r9ight off one of the bike paths close to town and even had moose there occasionally. But moose and bear aside, Anchorage has most of what I would want in "my" city design.
From the Anchorage city website:
"Connecting the community to nature and to each other!
The Anchorage Parks and Recreation Department manages 10,946 acres (223 parks) of municipal parkland including neighborhood, community, special use and natural resource parks. We also have over 250 miles of trails (135 miles paved), 110 athletic fields, 5 pools, 11 recreation centers and 82 playgrounds."
Statistical Trail Information
Paved bike trails/multi-use trails 120+ miles/195 kms
Plowed winter walkways 130 miles/216 kms
Maintained ski trails 105 miles/175+ kms
Dog mushing trails 36 miles/60 kms
Summer non-paved hiking trails 87 miles/145+ kms
Lighted ski trails 24 miles/40 kms
Ski-joring trails 66 kms
Equestrian trails 10 kms
Numerous trails connect to the Chugach State Park, a high, alpine tundra park of some 495,000 acres.
Making me want to go live there again. Oh but those long long winters :-)!
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