View Full Version : Hurricane Sandy
Hurrican Sandy looks to be a whopper of a storm, with some branding it a sno-eastercane; part snowstorm, part nor'easter and part hurricane.
I read that the expected rainfall will cause a 500-1,000 year event in the mid Atlantic, the expected storm surge will be approximately 10 feet around Manhattan, and that snow up to 4 feet is expected in West Virginia.
All public transportation in Manhattan and public schools will be closed. Yet the NYSE will remain open. I wonder how the people who work there will be expected to show up on Monday morning, as so many take the train or subway.
Are any of you in the path of the storm? What are you doing to prepare?
Anne
Whoops, just saw there was another thread on this.
mtnlaurel
10-28-12, 3:52pm
We are prepped and anxious.
And I'm burning off nervous energy looking up Donald Trump photos (see Donald Trump thread)
Right now I'm so wound tight I just want to run around my house screaming 'Frankenstorm' at the top of my lungs.
Kids school cancelled Mon & Tues.
I heard trains stopping at 7pm tonight.
Friends from Mexico told me to day they read in Mex. news that incoming NYC flights are being cancelled and someone said that was because airlines don't want to have their equipment here during the storm.
The suspense is intense.
I'm in central jersey and getting cooler, overcast and breezy/windy. No rain yet.
catherine
10-28-12, 4:04pm
I'm also in Central Jersey:
We made sure everything is as off the floor in the basement (as much as it can be, on pallets and cinderblocks). (although if we get more than 8 inches of water in the basement, it won't matter and we'll have to move things upstairs).
We have food, and we're charging up flashlights and electronics like phones and computers.
We don't have bottled water, but we're going to start filling up bottles and buckets with water.
I hear the Raritan water basin is going to be greatly impacted. I guess we'll see pretty soon!
Friends in NYC have been posting photos on FB of the city getting ready.
Catherine I saw some photos of people storing water in ziplock bags because they couldn't find bottled water in town.
I live in Central VA and am hoping the predicted path continues north (sorry, those of you in NJ but I think there's no way you're going to avoid this.)
I don't want to lose electricity but I got a new generator after the derecho in June and so I can handle that. However, I don't want to lose a tree as they take 100-150 years to grow and I've lost 8 oaks (half of the total) in my yard since I moved into this house 10 years ago. I don't live in a flood plain or have a basement so not worried about flooding--just the trees. Just read an article that the city is now prepared with water treatment plant improvements since a disaster during Isabel 9 years ago. So not worried about gathering water.
They haven't cancelled school for use yet but we expect it sometime this evening. I don't know whether or not I'd rather go in. Don't want to spend the day peering nervously at the swaying branches...
I feel like I've wasted the day looking at the news and weather.com over and over again, waiting for the ax to fall...
Ah. Just got the call. No school tomorrow.
catherine
10-28-12, 5:08pm
Catherine I saw some photos of people storing water in ziplock bags because they couldn't find bottled water in town.
Great idea! I've got ziplock bags!
NW NJ here, with lots of giant old trees everywhere. While driving around today, I noticed how everything looked to compare it to how it will be the next few days. We're in a condo with only one external wall, so sometimes storms don't seem as bad until I go out the door on the other side. We also have a creek less than 50 yards from us and I expect that to get wider but probably won't reach us (fingers crossed).
I just hope we don't lose power; my mom and I are fine, but my dad lives and breathes television even though he's sort of zoned out in front of it most times. The weather isn't too cold so having no heat won't be a problem. Lots of ice cream in the freezer to get through if we have no electricity.
Right now it's all a bit exciting, seeing the storm develop and get closer. This excitement will end about an hour after it hits us full force--it will then turn to worry. The size of this storm boggles the mind and even if you're not in its direct path, like NJ is, most of the east coast will feel some of the effects.
I know people that store water in zip lock freezer bags and then freeze them flat, so they can be stacked up. By doing that you have water AND ice. Water frozen in empty milk jugs or something similar will last many times longer than ice cubes because the mass thaws so much slower.
It sounds like people are taking this one seriously. That is a good thing. Hang on tight if you're back east!
SteveinMN
10-28-12, 9:56pm
All public transportation in Manhattan and public schools will be closed. Yet the NYSE will remain open. I wonder how the people who work there will be expected to show up on Monday morning, as so many take the train or subway.
Articles on NYC newspaper Web sites indicate that NYSE trading will be electronic only on Monday; no one is expected to be on the floor. Common sense prevails. That day, at least.
My 85 year old curmudgeon Dad's name is Sandy. From the relative safety of Seattle, I must confess that every time I see a warning with the name Sandy in it, I picture my Dad. Many interesting family of origin moments lately!
I hope all y'all stay warm & safe. Please keep us updated. Hugs...
puglogic
10-28-12, 10:26pm
Second the motion.....stay as safe as you can, and let us know you're okay when that thing has passed!
More hugs,
Pug
Hoping everyone in her path is okay!
rosarugosa
10-29-12, 7:34am
I got notification at 6AM that my office is closed today. That was a total surprise; I fully expected that we would be working today. I am a bit relieved because getting in and out of Boston during rush hour is challenging under the best of circumstances. They were assuring us that public transportation would get us into the city with no problem, but there were no reassurances about getting home. With something like this, I don't even sweat the big-picture stuff; I get stressed from thinking about the nightmare commute.
I'm getting sick of this stupid storm already...
mtnlaurel
10-29-12, 8:50am
I got notification at 6AM that my office is closed today. That was a total surprise; I fully expected that we would be working today. I am a bit relieved because getting in and out of Boston during rush hour is challenging under the best of circumstances. They were assuring us that public transportation would get us into the city with no problem, but there were no reassurances about getting home. With something like this, I don't even sweat the big-picture stuff; I get stressed from thinking about the nightmare commute.
If you go by Huffington Post right now the headline and graphic are for real.... "WORST CASE SCENARIO" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
I feel like they just want to get as many 'non-essential' people to stay in their homes as possible, so it's fewer folks to worry about running the roads and getting into binds.
So they can focus resources on the worst spots... I think it is going to be bad.
We've become so jaded by entertainNews that it's hard to know when things really ARE for real.
All I know is that I am going to have to run a thread on the food forum for Peanut Butter ideas -- my husband and I each kept absent-mindedly buying a jar with every visit to the store over the past few days.
The food budget into Nov is shot!
catherine
10-29-12, 8:53am
Yeah, my son, who works for Rutgers, is actually on his way to work!! And the only way he can drive in New Brunswick is by showing his Rutgers staff ID to the city officials, because the whole city will be shut down in 9 minutes!!
I don't understand why he has to go to work--it's a 45 minute commute down the Jersey Turnpike from the Hoboken area for him and he drives a little Honda Fit.. but part of me says that's just him--needing to be in the thick of everything. On 9/11 we practically had to restrain him from going INTO New York.
They've cried wolf so many times recently, its hard to know what's really going to happen for sure.
But it is potentially a very scary scenario. I wonder if the subways will get flooded?
I find it completely nuts that the weather people on TV report from right on the beaches. I think at least Al Roker is tethered to something now. Seems like sooner or later, someone's going to get swept out to sea, just for a good report.
Yeah, my son, who works for Rutgers, is actually on his way to work!! And the only way he can drive in New Brunswick is by showing his Rutgers staff ID to the city officials, because the whole city will be shut down in 9 minutes!!
I don't understand why he has to go to work--it's a 45 minute commute down the Jersey Turnpike from the Hoboken area for him and he drives a little Honda Fit.. but part of me says that's just him--needing to be in the thick of everything. On 9/11 we practically had to restrain him from going INTO New York.
That's absurd! Why didn't he just call in sick or not go in?
JaneV2.0
10-29-12, 10:05am
Yeah, my son, who works for Rutgers, is actually on his way to work!! And the only way he can drive in New Brunswick is by showing his Rutgers staff ID to the city officials, because the whole city will be shut down in 9 minutes!!
I don't understand why he has to go to work--it's a 45 minute commute down the Jersey Turnpike from the Hoboken area for him and he drives a little Honda Fit.. but part of me says that's just him--needing to be in the thick of everything. On 9/11 we practically had to restrain him from going INTO New York.
Good God--he drives a Honda Fit? Has he filed a flight plan? I'm sure he'll hunker down if it gets bad, but if I were you I'd want to haul him up by an ear!
I'm in central Mass. Hubbie went to work and I'm at home with elderly MIL. Hope everything's okay for everyone. Hunkering down with potable water in big pots in tub!
rosarugosa
10-29-12, 10:22am
My DH was just watching the newscasters on the beach and saying he wished one of them would get swept out to sea - not very nice of him, I'm afraid! He said that would help get the point across that we should stay away from the ocean, which is what they keep telling us from the dock on Scituate Harbor. I don't usually watch TV, so I've really noticed the contrast in messaging. Last night I checked NOAA online and thought "no big deal" for my immediate area. Then I went into the living room where DH had TV going, and it was more like "the end of the world is upon us!!!"
I got notification at 6AM that my office is closed today. That was a total surprise; I fully expected that we would be working today. I am a bit relieved because getting in and out of Boston during rush hour is challenging under the best of circumstances. They were assuring us that public transportation would get us into the city with no problem, but there were no reassurances about getting home. With something like this, I don't even sweat the big-picture stuff; I get stressed from thinking about the nightmare commute.
They just announced MBTA is shutting down at 2PM - I hope everyone who took public finds out in time to get back home.
catherine
10-29-12, 10:32am
Good God--he drives a Honda Fit? Has he filed a flight plan?
haha, LOL, Jane!! Well, he is on his way BACK home now, passing Newark Airport, so maybe he'll get clearance from air traffic control..
herbgeek
10-29-12, 10:42am
I'm also in central Mass. The wind howling woke me up at 4am, so since I was already awake, I made some soup, cornbread and a stew. Got all the dishes in the dishwasher in case the power goes out. If the power doesn't go out, I get to slack for a couple of days because my meals are already made. :) Oh yeah, and I ground some extra coffee.
catherine
10-29-12, 10:52am
Oh yeah, and I ground some extra coffee.
Oh, noooo! I forgot about the coffee machine!! Gotta go look for my French press and/or my Italian coffee maker--
LOL about the coffee. Dh's disaster plan includes roastong and grinding coffee!!
I thought it was funny that on the news for NYC, they were listing several of the big companies who were going to be closed, and Starbucks was on there. I was thinking that was really stupid, but then realized they were probably warning people who were counting on them for their only source of caffeine. haha
Also.......A tall ship has sank off the coast. It was the ship used in Mutiny on the Bounty. fortunately, the coast guard was able to rescue 14 of the passengers.....but they think 2 might be missing.
they said they were trying to go around the hurricane. Seems to me they had plenty of warning ahead of time, to not even have attempted it.
Apparently the people piloting that ship couldn't see the NOAA map of how huge this storm is. Going around it isn't an option....maybe they were trying to outrun it? Anyway, prayers for those missing.... Lighting a new candle for everybody in harm's way today, at Starbucks or anywhere else.
I just heard from my cousin, who lives in Manhattan. His apartment is 1 block away from the mandatory evacuation zone. He's just been told they'll be shutting down power ASAP to prevent storm damage to the system.
He has: no food set aside, no water set aside, no flashlights, no plans for how to deal with this. He always eats out, he has *no* food in his apartment. He told me "well, if it gets bad, maybe I'll try and go somewhere North."
I don't think he has a clue, frankly.
He has: no food set aside, no water set aside, no flashlights, no plans for how to deal with this. He always eats out, he has *no* food in his apartment. He told me "well, if it gets bad, maybe I'll try and go somewhere North."
bae, was this the family member who was hitting you up for a huge loan a few weeks ago? (loan, grant, entitlement, whatever it was)
Scary that he's so clueless. It will be a grand adventure for him, I guess!
bae, was this the family member who was hitting you up for a huge loan a few weeks ago? (loan, grant, entitlement, whatever it was)
Indeed so :-(
mtnlaurel
10-29-12, 5:03pm
I just heard from my cousin, who lives in Manhattan. His apartment is 1 block away from the mandatory evacuation zone. He's just been told they'll be shutting down power ASAP to prevent storm damage to the system.
He has: no food set aside, no water set aside, no flashlights, no plans for how to deal with this. He always eats out, he has *no* food in his apartment. He told me "well, if it gets bad, maybe I'll try and go somewhere North."
I don't think he has a clue, frankly.
Bae here is a list of the emergency shelters set up in NYC
http://www.nyc.gov/html/misc/html/2012/hurricane_shelters.html
He can dial 311 and may get to someone for further information
http://www.nyc.gov/apps/311/
My heart goes out to your cousin (and you).
mtnlaurel
10-29-12, 5:05pm
I have been listening to storm coverage all day - local and national - and there hasn't been a SCIENTIST yet that has poo-poo'd this storm
Miss Cellane
10-29-12, 5:06pm
Here in Southern New Hampshire the wind is blowing and the rain is coming down.
The governor declared a state of emergency at 2 pm. People were asked to be off the roads by 3. My job let me out at 3; we normally leave at 4. My sister, however, had to stay until her usual quitting time of 4:30 and I am mad on her behalf at her bosses. Seriously? Yes, they provide tech support for software used all over the country, but somehow I think their customers would understand if the office is closed today and tomorrow.
I'm hoping the power doesn't go out for another hour or two. Running the dishwasher, which I forgot to do last night because I was hauling in all the porch furniture. And baking two loaves of bread and some potatoes. This close to the center of town we don't lose power often and we get it back very quickly, but the way the projected storm path curves over to New York and then around up to the tip of Maine, we could be getting rain and wind from this storm for days. I thought it would blow over in a day or two, but the new path indicates it will hang around for a while. Could get interesting.
I have been listening to storm coverage all day - local and national - and there hasn't been a SCIENTIST yet that has poo-poo'd this storm
I'm no scientist, but I am a total weather geek who talks with a lot of other weather geeks on a pretty regular basis. For what its worth most of us feel that a set up like this will only come along a couple times in a lifetime. Possibly less. There is potential for this storm to cost the insurance companies tens of billions, almost all in damage from storm surge and flooding. Everyone is obviously hoping it won't, but the way Sandy is coming ashore you couldn't design it to be much worse (unless it were a much stronger storm, of course).
He has: no food set aside, no water set aside, no flashlights, no plans for how to deal with this. He always eats out, he has *no* food in his apartment. He told me "well, if it gets bad, maybe I'll try and go somewhere North."
I don't think he has a clue, frankly.
Sadly, I think there are a lot of folks like that in the path. I also have a cousin there. He works mid-town, but lives in NJ. He was a marine and is a very practical fellow. I seriously doubt he had to do any more than put extra water in the freezer and buy a couple packs of new batteries to get his family up to 100% because he's the type that is always prepared. He was talking on Facebook about some of the people in his office that eiter just don't believe anything bad could happen or are in the same state as bae's cousin. So sad, but I suppose that is why shelters are in high demand at times like this.
catherine
10-29-12, 6:34pm
We are officially power-less. Candles on. Cooking dinner on the gas.
We are officially power-less. Candles on. Cooking dinner on the gas.
And keeping the squirrels in the wheel busy, apparently, to generate enough electricity to be on your computer!:confused:
Power just came back on here after 4 hours out. I am grateful I won't have to throw out the contents of the freezer like when that freak snowstorm arrived at this time last year. Power outages are the only time I wish I had a smart phone, so I could continue to get on line and see what's happening.
catherine
10-29-12, 9:55pm
We are officially power-less. Candles on. Cooking dinner on the gas.
And keeping the squirrels in the wheel busy, apparently, to generate enough electricity to be on your computer!:confused:
Using my iPhone!
Hello, Catherine! Hope you have a way to charge it back up (car charger?) when it runs out!
Even with being TV free, I'm still watching the coverage. Gotta love the Weather Channel that broadcasts online during really bad storms. WABC in NYC, too.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZAqYZ433TeQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZAqYZ433TeQ
The initial explosion at the Con Ed Plant, E14th and FDR.
Indeed so :-(
May he find community in this madness...
Holy crap! That looked BAD. Was there another? That said "initial"!
rosarugosa
10-30-12, 4:48am
We were lucky north of Boston. We never lost power and no real damage in my immediate area as far as I know. Full moon was shining beautifully when I got up this morning, so it must be pretty clear out.
In Central VA, so far all trees are upright and power still on. Winds have diminished dramatically but the rain continues to fall and now is mixed with snow.
Hopefully, the worst is over. I may start that fire I laid yesterday...
Catherine: Do you have your power back, yet? I was looking @ the pics of NJ online and it's not pretty. Also, that fire in Queens, NY where something like 60 houses were consumed in the conflagration and there were people who (in that evacuation zone) didn't evacuate and were stuck bc it was on a narrow spit of land and they were stuck. I hope none died there.
I was watching the news on the Today Show and they have that window behind them where people have nothing better to do that jump up and down and wave and try to see themselves on camera. I couldn't believe there were still some people there this morning....laughing, jumping up and down, waving. It was a bit incongruous, considering the destruction around them.
Using my iPhone!
Ahh...smart phone!
I just have a dumb phone.:laff:
puglogic
10-30-12, 10:37am
I am glad the damage wasn't any worse than it was.
Am I the only one, though, that has an icky feeling in the pit of her stomach that this is the shape of things to come? That this sort of coastal event is going to be more commonplace as we move deeper into our climate crisis?
At 11 am Tuesday here in Southwestern CT, I'm sitting pretty compared to an awful lot of people in the area. No power loss, and not much damage in the immediate neighborhood--a few trees down, lots of small branches and leaf debris. It's very much like the aftermath of Irene last year. Even so, the authorities are asking people to stay home today, and I plan to obey.
A few miles south down on the coast, it's much worse. The storm surge was as bad as predicted. I just saw on the news a house that literally had its entire front torn off. You could see inside, like a giant doll's house.
One thing worth commenting on: I spent much of yesterday watching the TV coverage of the storm (courtesy of the local stations that took their online firewalls down). In all that time, even with the endless talk, talk, talking of the anchors, not one word was said about global warming--in particular, the fact that this superstorm is precisely the kind of event that climate scientists have been warning will occur more often as the oceans warm. It seems to be a taboo topic. I wonder if there will be any discussion at all in the mainstream media of the role of climate change as they do post-mortems on this disaster.
I have that feeling too pug.
ApatheticNoMore
10-30-12, 12:13pm
Am I the only one, though, that has an icky feeling in the pit of her stomach that this is the shape of things to come? That this sort of coastal event is going to be more commonplace as we move deeper into our climate crisis?
Yes. Climate change, climate change, climate change. The first rule of climate change is you don't talk about climate change ... wait that makes no sense. But the entire presidential election the issue was ignored (http://www.climatesilence.org/), and then there is this storm a week before the election. Hmm, yea. Isn't it ironic, doncha think? And it was mentioned environmental issues can't be discussed in the presidential race because people don't care about the environment they only care about the economy, screaming inside, people don't care about reality maybe if they ignore it enough it will go away! The reality people "don't care about" still will do what it will with them! 350.org was out demonstrating on the east coast before the hurricane, raising the issue, good for them. Of course if you really don't want to talk about climate change, there was a really scarry article about ocean acidification recently ...
Ok, back to the storm, I'm not on the east coast of course, I'm sure it's objectively horrible, I read the accounts (though someone did tell me more people used to die in these things in the past even though they weren't as bad - so one tiny little potential point for progress) but I can't see this stuff without breaking the first rule of climate change ...
While climate change could certainly be a factor in the average size/strength of storms or the frequency of storms, this one was fairly unique because it brought together factors that occur on a regular basis in an uncommon way. I think part of the reason you don't hear much about it day to day is that there really isn't a logical way to blame climate change for any individual event. Hurricanes form in October, the season still has a month to go. Cold fronts are common in the fall. Arctic air moves south behind fall cold fronts. Nor'easters happen in the fall. There is a full moon every month. There are high tides twice a day. It's the almost bizarre way in which many of those things came together that makes this storm stand out. In that regard it really was a perfect storm, but it is impossible to determine if it would have happened or not had we never burned fossil fuels or used spray deodorant. The real study of climate change will put this one event in the model to be processed with all the other events so we can step back and look at the bigger picture to see what is really going on.
I think the jury is still out on whether these sorts of events are related to climate change. Though regardless, climate change is happening and it is going to impact all of us in many ways. I too was disappointed that this wasn't addressed in the debates or very much in the election platforms.
"For hurricanes, however, sticking to the science means it is still hard to point to an individual storm and say, yes! Climate change! A more reasoned approach is to take the full weight of our understanding about the Earth and its systems and go beyond asking if any particular event is due to global warming or natural variability. As Kevin Ternbeth of NCAR says "Nowadays, there's always an element of both."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/10/28/163812770/hurricane-csi-frankenstorm-sandy-and-climate-change
As I've said before, I'm sure there have been lots of things like this go on before man arrived on the scene. But it sure wouldn't hurt anything to error on the side of taking better care of the earth.
And when we build up communities with such high density right on the coast, the whole way around the U.S., these things are going to happen.
I like to think about what the U.S. continent was like before man showed up. How beautiful that NYC area must have been........so many trees, so many birds and other wildlife......
You can't imagine how desperately I want to post the link of Romney wanting to defund FEMA, privatizing it even, but I won't.;)
I just hope our friends, Internet and otherwise, hurry back to normalcy after this devastating storm. I've been through hurricanes before, one when I was pregnant with the eye passing right overhead. It isn't fun!
Ice was the #1 thing we needed. Then water. Then, oddly enough, charcoal, as we needed to gill everything that thawed in our freezer. Food we had, Too much food, actually. Lot's of block parties/b-b-q's those two weeks.
Alcohol was also greatly appreciated!:~)
The problem with the climate change argument is that it tends to be amongst scientists. Scientists argue like this: Scientist 1 "well, my models indicate that Sandy could be a result of climate change." Scientist 2: "that seems a little far-fetched to argue that this particular storm is the result of climate change. Did you exclude variables such as x and y? Couldn't the storm be caused by z?" Scientist 2: "yes I plan to rerun the models accounting for x and y, and also do an analysis of z. Thanks for your input. It will be interesting to see what those show" and on and on. The scientists all agree that climate change is happening, but when folks hear this who aren't used to the way science is argued, they interpret this to mean "climate change might not be happening" or "climate change didn't cause this storm". In fact, it's pretty likely that the strength and timing of the storm was related to climate change. Climate scientists just can't prove that in a way that will stand up to peer review because there are too many variables, so it's not "known science". Published science is pretty conservative in allowing new theories to come around, and you have to have a tight case for it. The problem with climate is that the scientists are working with extremely complex models, some of which change drastically by fiddling with only a couple of variables. The data that exists in full detail is short-lived on a geological scale, and data from further back is incomplete. They may know there was a drought in the SW US 12,000 years ago (or whenever) but only through tree-rings. Extrapolating the cause is a different story, and highly subject to the argumentation above.
We do know the climate is changing. The average temp has gone up over the last 150 years, and this is quantitated. Whether that is wholly responsible for something like Sandy or this year's drought (or N Europe's non-summer) is debatable, since odd weather phenomena is always occurring. My opinion is that there might be storms/droughts/extraordinarily cool summers here and there but the magnitude and frequency are probably effects of climate change.
Andrew Cuomo (governor or NY) and Chris Cristy (governor of NJ) have been saying some good things, about how they need to re-think the coast, since this type of weather destruction appears to be the new normal.
To try to put everything back the same way it was would be incredibly stupid. So I'm glad to hear what they are saying.
But the scope of this damage is so overwhelming. It just seems impossible to deal with.
Its just seems to be what can happen when you live near the ocean.
The shape of our country, geographically is the result of things like this happening eons ago......so its not like this has never happened before. But humans weren't here yet and it didn't have the same impact.
It's not just those who live near the ocean who are affected by climate change. We here in the mid-west just went through the worst drought since the dust bowl, and it hasn't 'righted' itself yet. Some, like us, are getting some rain to at least replace some of that which evaporates now, but it's a losing game (one step forward, two steps back), but some still haven't gotten any to speak of, and according to the national weather service, this drought will linger, and even deepen for a great chunk of the mid-west.
The fen in the back has all but disappeared and has shrunk to about the size of our living room. This was a 3/4 acre body of water! Shallow, yes, but covered a lot of ground and provided the water and food source for a lot of our woodland friends.
The large fish pond in the front is down at least 2 1/2 - 3 feet. It is deep so I'm not worried about losing it, but it's going to take several wet seasons to replenish it.
So, the coast is greatly affected and the mid-west is greatly affected. Where is the happy medium for living? A band circling the mid-west but avoiding the coast?
I'm sorry you haven't caught up from the drought yet Peggy. We lucked out here in central Indiana. I think we are ahead in rain now.
I think we should re-think our populating so much of our coastline......but that will never happen.
I've also noticed that when there's a drought somewhere, there's usually more hurricanes or rain somewhere else......like there's only so much water and if its used up in one area, there's not enough for other areas.
I don't know how much man's choices have caused this, or if it would happen otherwise and wouldn't mean much if humans weren't around. We keep insisting on nature conforming to our needs. Like I said, if we were smart, we wouldn't allow all that building along the coasts. But we want what we want.
The climate is warming up, the reasons can be debated all day, but the stats are there. Roughly half of all humans live within 50 miles of a coastline. I've heard that percentage is growing. If the climate continues to warm events like Sandy will probably begin to happen on an alarmingly regular basis.
SteveinMN
10-31-12, 1:05pm
I'm thinking the term "storm of the century" may be devalued to "storm of the decade". No matter why they're happening, they're happening.
Here's an interesting article from Planet Money comparing the costliest storms from 1900 to 2010.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/10/31/163960418/americas-most-expensive-storms?live=1?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20121031
Here's an interesting article from Planet Money comparing the costliest storms from 1900 to 2010.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/10/31/163960418/americas-most-expensive-storms?live=1?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20121031
It does present an interesting question - what level of infrastructure and just "stuff" can you go to before the costs of catastrophic damage to said infrastructure just become unmanageable? It's not just the level of infrastucture, it's also the level of catastrophes. What happens if 100 year storms start coming every 20 years? Or every 10? You end up having these huge infrastructures where they are no longer maintainable.
Maybe the insurance companies will stop insuring people in these areas. One devastation and I doubt people would stay around. I find it pretty weird when people have been through 1-2 hurricanes on the coast, and are rebuilding again and again.
ApatheticNoMore
10-31-12, 1:51pm
The rational action is to at least get serious about climate change mitigation. If even the money put into bailling out banks was put into climate mitigation, that would be a strategy. What have we got to lose, even if climate change was a false alarm (something I regard as extremely unlikely, and way too risky to chance), but even then we will have less pollution, might perserve marine life etc.. But no there's never any money for that, always money for a thousand attempts to prop up an unsustainable status quo. Worse climate talk nearly non-existent in the entire presidential campaign, now the presidency isn't everything, plenty of other political places to act, and where you will probably have more impact!. But I feel this "ghettoization" in so many respects of a conversation that should be mainstream is no end of damaging. This conversation should be everywhere, from the best and brightest, to the collective wisdom of the man on the street (dim bulbs like me perhaps :), but still this should be the collective conversation. I feel with all the most important issues marginalized, ie utterly shut out, (in my view) we are slowly being driven insane. All the things anyone can see are of long range import are virtually taboo. Of couse most of this is only in the U.S..
So, the coast is greatly affected and the mid-west is greatly affected. Where is the happy medium for living? A band circling the mid-west but avoiding the coast?
Definitely not the Southwest or California, it's too darn dry! Much of it is too hot also, I mean yes even temperate areas getting hot, but Phoenix and stuff, forget it, that's insane!!! And forest fires are a major problem as we have seen in Colorado, in California etc.. Commit to nowhere, be a wandering refugee against total ecosystem and climate collapse. Leave behind you nothing but dust. Keep fleeing and fleeing. I hope that someone's saved a seat for me on the last plane out.
By the way I don't feel any strong attraction to live right by the coast. I mean look sure I love the beaches and stuff, it's wonderful, I love visiting and sure the weather is great, not hotter and hotter. But I also saw the pictures of the ocean just eating up vast quantities of Japan. But life is risk I suppose.
Maybe the insurance companies will stop insuring people in these areas.
While they will probably always write a policy if the price is right, I think that general idea is spot on to what would happen first. Another angle is whether or not the federal government would continue to provide relief. There are a lot of voters in the US that don't happen to live on hurricane tracks (for example). Would those tax payers eventually get tired of funding the rebuilding for folks who insist on tempting fate and vote for a candidate who says enough is enough?
SteveinMN
10-31-12, 7:29pm
While they will probably always write a policy if the price is right, I think that general idea is spot on to what would happen first. Another angle is whether or not the federal government would continue to provide relief.
I've almost always found that people remember getting hit in the wallet. Certainly insurance companies know what their loss experience is in certain areas; you would think that they could simply stop writing policies in certain areas. Build if you want, but we won't cover it. Insurers have done that in certain areas near here which flood every spring when the rivers rise.
There are a lot of voters in the US that don't happen to live on hurricane tracks (for example). Would those tax payers eventually get tired of funding the rebuilding for folks who insist on tempting fate and vote for a candidate who says enough is enough?
But disasters can occur anywhere -- tornadoes where we live, rivers overflowing, chemical spills, wildfires. In some respects, I see taxes which fund disaster relief like insurance -- I pay it and I may gripe about the amount, but I'm happy to not have to collect on it.
On another note, I just heard from a sibling in NYC that the college she works at is closed all week - no electricity. Related to that, however, is that her scheduled paycheck from them did not arrive in her direct deposit.
I'm sure it will sort itself out, but this underscores what others have said in emergency preparedness threads about having cash on hand.
Good point, Lainey. I heard a story today while driving home about NYCers who wanted to buy stuff (like hand-crank radios or flashlights) but don't have any cash. Well, ATMs and credit card machines and the new hipster pay-with-your-phone stuff does not work without power. Ooops. I personally probably do not keep enough cash on hand but usually at least have enough to fill gas to get home if I'm away.
As for general disaster funding, well, Romney did say he'd cut FEMA and let the "states and private business" do more. I don't think that will likely happen, though if an area is repeatedly problematic maybe there will be less funding? But almost everyone is at risk of some disaster. When we were in Phx, there wasn't much except of course if the power went out there would have been big ramifications in summer. Days w/o power would be life-threatening in a big way, beyond just unpleasant. If an earthquake took out the nuke plant, this might happen but it was something like 1:26,000 chance (yes I looked this up after the Japan episode). We were prepared to evacuate in that unlikely scenario. Here in CO, my house is out of wildfire range but that puts it in tornado/hail range. Less chance than Nebraska or Kansas sure, but a big tornado took out part of a town nearby a few years back, but could easily have been ours. Never mind that even small creeks can flood mightily given the right conditions which can happen almost anywhere. So can earthquakes. The West Coast is due for "the big one" one of these days but who expected one in Wash DC? Or Maine? Somewhere I read that everywhere in the US is at moderate risk of earthquake except the Gulf Coast, which of course has a huge risk of hurricanes. So I would tend to doubt that FEMA is going away, because as soon as the political will is built up to get rid of it, you'll have some major thing go on. I'm pretty OK with FEMA, and am grateful for my community which was twice declared a fed disaster this year, for both drought and fire. Also grateful that I haven't personally had to get FEMA assistance and hope I never do. I feel for all the folks on the East Coast who were affected by the storm, certainly if they lost a home and/or business but also even if they lost some place special and memorable to them.
I know people that store water in zip lock freezer bags and then freeze them flat, so they can be stacked up. By doing that you have water AND ice. Water frozen in empty milk jugs or something similar will last many times longer than ice cubes because the mass thaws so much slower.
It sounds like people are taking this one seriously. That is a good thing. Hang on tight if you're back east!
You know, this is a pretty good tip. Use the frozen bags to fill a small cooler and drinks them as they though. One of the suprising things I saw was that if you had zero power or energy, you should plan to have at least 3 cans of food per person a day. That's in addition to any dry foods, like granola bars, dry cereal, candy bars, boxed milk etc. Eye opener. I don't USE canned food! So to have 3 cans each person for say at least 3 days. That's 27 cans of meal type foods. Like chili, soup, pasta, whatever. Whoa! That's a lot of cupboard space. And I don't even eat those foods, so the question of rotating them is interesting. It makes me really look at what I'm storing. I guess I could manage to eat chicken noodle soup, instant pudding, canned chili, occasionally! But ouch, I never eat canned chili. Disgusting! I recently bought 10 cans of progresso healthy choice soups for work lunchs, and sorry but they are TERRIBLE! I'm sure it would ge great to have them in a pinch, but I have a hard time seeing myself eating them so I could rotate them.
We have a freezer in addition to our kitchen fridge/freezer. Right now it is full thanks to the end of the gardening season and a side of beef. As it starts to empty out over the winter I will place milk jugs of water in the 'holes'. The main reason is that the frozen mass of all that ice helps the freezer run far more efficiently (less cost, less power needed, longer compressor life...greener all around). The side benefit is that we always have a stock pile of ice that after several days would becomes a store of fresh water. I use the jugs all the time to keep food in coolers cold when we go to picnics, the lake, parties, etc. After 10 or 12 hours the jugs are just barely starting to melt when a bag of ice would already be a bag of water. The water in zip lock bags idea came from some friends in Florida. They know a little about preparing for hurricanes down there.
I don't even eat those foods, so the question of rotating them is interesting. It makes me really look at what I'm storing. I guess I could manage to eat chicken noodle soup, instant pudding, canned chili, occasionally! But ouch, I never eat canned chili. Disgusting! I recently bought 10 cans of progresso healthy choice soups for work lunchs, and sorry but they are TERRIBLE! I'm sure it would ge great to have them in a pinch, but I have a hard time seeing myself eating them so I could rotate them.
You could accelerate the rotation schedule some and donate the food to a food shelf.
I suppose canning one's own food also meets the requirements and might result in offerings more palatable to you.
Ok, I'm finally back! We had power after about a day, but the phone/internet/cable has been out. Where we are every street has at least one uprooted tree, and my town's roads are strangled with downed power lines. There's no gas--the lines of cars waiting to get gas at the few stations that have it are longer than they were back in 1976 when we had gas rationing.
I've had two projects postponed. Schools have been off all week. Christie postponed Halloween.
It was really interesting not having TV/cable/phone/internet. I know that some of you guys are already living "technology-lite" but it was a bit of an adjustment for us. We couldn't watch TV to see what was happening. I'm just now getting shots of the Jersey shore, and my DH's childhood summer oasis, Breezy Point in Far Rockaway NY, which was not only flooded, but burned to the ground.
I did realize that I probably spend way too much time on the internet, so I'm going to try to moderate that.
I've already gotten a blanket email from Bill McKibben (I get emails from his 350.org). Of course he's using this to highlight the effects of climate change. It does give you something to think about.
Anyway, glad to be back! I pray for my neighbors who aren't as lucky as my family was.
I was just wondering a minute ago how you were doing. Glad you're up and running. Sorry about the loss of all the trees. Electricity and buildings can be rebuilt but it takes 150 years to build a tree.
I feel for the people who are really suffering. I live in Central Va and we just had Irene last year and have had others in the past (the worst was Isabel about a decade ago.) I know how trying it can be. It's horrible.
catherine........I'm glad you're okay! Do you live anywhere near Asbury? I have a cyber friend who lives there and she hasn't posted on her facebook recently, so I hope she's okay.
Its not Asbury Park, just Asbury.
Thanks for the update, catherine.
Another point about those who lost their homes in the fire is that their home insurance will probably cover their loss, vs. those whose homes were flooded and are probably not covered.
catherine........I'm glad you're okay! Do you live anywhere near Asbury? I have a cyber friend who lives there and she hasn't posted on her facebook recently, so I hope she's okay.
Its not Asbury Park, just Asbury.
I'm not really near Asbury--which I think is in Warren County. If so, there's higher ground there, but there are tons of people without power still, so she's probably just incommunicado, as I was this week..
Glad to hear you weathered the storm OK, Catherine!
Glad you're safe and sound catherine! Heard the forecast this morning and it sounds like another storm is in the works for Monday or Tuesday. Not a hurricane, but any cold, wet, windy weather would sure be miserable right now. Stay vigilant.
catherine........I'm glad you're okay! Do you live anywhere near Asbury? I have a cyber friend who lives there and she hasn't posted on her facebook recently, so I hope she's okay.
Its not Asbury Park, just Asbury.
Just got a message on FB from a cousin who would be a little bit east of there. He said they just updated the estimate of when he would have power again. They were saying Monday, now its next Friday. He did say that they didn't have any severe damage, just trees down. Lots and lots of trees. My cousin has a generator so can keep the phones charged, the fridge cold, etc. He also said cell reception is very spotty because any of the towers that are in areas with no power are running out of battery back up power now. The odds seem good that she is just fine, just without power and maybe without phone service.
Quick Hello. Power still out. All is fine though.
At library checking in quickly. Will catch up more later.
Prayers to all out there.
I wonder if bae has heard from his unprepared nephew (?)?
I wonder if bae has heard from his unprepared nephew (?)?
He survived, has broken windows in his apartment, no power still, and is walking 15 blocks or so to get to the more-functional part of the city for provisions and whatnot. Lucky he doesn't live too high up.
SteveinMN
11-2-12, 10:21pm
He survived, has broken windows in his apartment, no power still, and is walking 15 blocks or so to get to the more-functional part of the city for provisions and whatnot.
He's a lucky guy....
Thanks for the follow-up.
Our power finally came back on today--it went out on Mondy right after DWTS (whew!) Not much damage around here, just some downed trees. Luckily we have city water and gas, so our toilets worked and we could cook a bit. Unfortunately we lost everything in our freezer, but our stuff from the fridge stayed on the balcony and was kept cold. We had plenty of ice but after 3 days all the frozen stuff was soggy. So we lost a bit of food, which is nothing compared to a lot of people.
It was a test of Simple Living. My mom and I played gin rummy by candlelight. From 8-10pm an AM radio station from Toronto played old music from the 30s-50s, then played a radio show. We listened to Baby Snooks, Ozzie and Harriet, and War of the Worlds. I used a bucket of warm water in the shower to wash, which wasn't too bad. But my Sonicare toothbrush lost its charge after a few days!!! Horror!!
After watching hours of news and weather before the storm, I really missed seeing the aftermath. I had no idea what was going on and my sister in OR called to tell us the latest. My area of NJ was so lucky.
CathyA, Asbury isn't far from me and they probably suffered downed trees and loss of power like we did.
Yesterday I waited almost one hour for gas, and was charged about 30 cents per gallon too much, but what can you do. My cellphone service has been spotty and our landlines were out. My 3 yr. old betta fish is in an unheated tank and so far he seems OK, but I'm sure he'll appreciate warm water again. Like I do.
Betta fish need warm water? I didn't know that.
About the trees, one thing that you who went through this storm should do is examine your trees, especially the big ones hanging over your homes, that are still standing. Sometimes in storms like these, a tree will get twisted, and damaged, but not fall, immediately. But it could fall later causing damage, or even a safety hazard. Look for splits or cracks in the trunks and/or large limbs. Might save you some grief down the road.
I finally got to see news coverage of the areas hit - and WOW! Very shocking. Hope everyone here (and their extended family) fared OK and didn't lose anything.
I'm glad to hear that all of you who were in harm's way came through it okay.
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