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babr
2-11-11, 11:20am
okay i will start this support group for anyone who thinks they might benefit from the above; you will at times have to excuse my writing, spelling etc.; because i am primarely doing this with my eyes closed because using my eyes; moving them up and down side to side causes eye pain; and so i also may not be able to read extensively; and respond extensively

but this is friday and we all know what that means; the weekend; and especially this weekend for those who celebrate batentines day; i am thinking of you; this will be my first weekend without sweets and it looks like i am going to have to give up my coffee; long story; but my body is having allergic reactions; sinusitus, excema, swollen cracked lips,; i have eliminated everything but the coffee and caffeine but it looks like that will need to be set aside for a time or maybe just once in awhile

had an arguement with dh and i am not craving sweets; now i don't want to make this a habit but at least for today it will help and also we don't celebrate valentines day; we try to show our love every day

i am trying to drink alot of water as i said and eat the small meals; someone else mentioned this; it seems to help;

well for those of you who want to join great and we will just checkin when we feel up to it; i don't want to put a time frame on check-ins for myself; but if it benefits you to share each day; each hour etc. great again; whatever you need for yourself

just having others with me helps and to know that others share this serious addiciton; take care

Kris

KayLR
2-11-11, 12:26pm
I want to be in on this, but I'll have to start tomorrow. I've already blown it today. And it's only 9:25 a.m.! Maybe I'll just say NO MORE TODAY. And then say it again tomorrow.

Good luck to us all!

kib
2-11-11, 1:12pm
I just wanted to wish you luck and support and say again that this is a website with a lot of good ideas and support for help with sugar cravings. Sorry Kris, there's a lot of text, but maybe it can help someone else. It's about a lot of things including other physical reasons as well emotional and life issues, not just insulin resistance.

http://www.womentowomen.com/insulinresistance/sugarcravings.aspx

:)

Glo
2-11-11, 4:13pm
I, too, love sugar and could live on it! Weight problems have plagued me my entire life. Almost 4 weeks ago I joined weigh****chers. I've lost about 8 pounds and have had nothing sweet during that time. The first few day were really difficult; I couldn't get enough to eat and was starving. Fruit is "free" on the plan, so I filled in with that. After a few days of misery, I seemed to get over the cravings and now I'm fine. I'm sure I'll still have cravings in the future, but I'll worry about that when it happens. If I can do it, anyone can! Good luck to everyone!

Mrs-M
2-12-11, 5:09pm
Casual check-ins..., you're talking my style baby! :)

Anyhow, I'm in! So far so good, coffee, breakfast, an apple for good measure, I'm set till dinner. Wishing everyone here much success in their sugar-free venture. Thanks for the link Kib. :)

Wildflower
2-13-11, 5:31am
I am going to allow myself one sweet treat a week, but that is all - which will be a vast improvement compared to how much sugar I've been eating since the holidays....

leslieann
2-13-11, 7:42am
I'm in but already I'm thinking about exclusions. I chased down the No-S diet on Anne Lee's recommendation from the other thread and I really like it. I think it might keep me from my waffling around and obsessive thinking about dieting. Anyway, I think I am going to keep on with the no gluten no dairy no sweets and go to the three meals a day (with S-days more relaxed). This is something I think that I can sustain.

So yeah, I'm in, and I also appreciate the casual nature of the check-in.

I ate chocolate last night: tried the 70% cocoa to see if I could manage amounts better than with the less-dark chocolate and yes, I think I can, but I will limit my consumption to S-days (and limit my consumption even then).

I am playing with the gluten and dairy and watching what could be symptoms: I do notice a lot more nasal symptoms after ingesting any dairy (immediately and then also continuing with less intensity over the next 12+ hours) and this morning my fingers ache post chocolate (don't know if that is real, either). I am acutely aware of the human tendency to look for confirming "evidence" once we have decided that there really is a causal relationship, and also that my personal sample size of ONE isn't much to go on. But I am mostly interested in feeling better.

Sorry for the ramble...the short of it is, YES, I am in. And tomorrow, on Valentine's day, I am going to eat some chocolate but not binge on it.

It feels good to be connected, however loosely!, with a group!

kal
2-13-11, 8:02am
I find a link between starchy carbs & sugar, if I eat a sandwich for lunch I want sugar about 2 hours later. I also saw a suggestion somewhere that when you are craving sugar (or anything else) say the word "HALT" & ask yourself if you are Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired. Sometimes the craving is not food related. It would at least give you a minute or 2 to consider your other options like drinking a glass of water, going for a walk, having a nap etc.

Rosemary
2-13-11, 2:38pm
I've also seen the acronym HALT, but applied in this way: Never let yourself get too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired... because those things can result in overeating.

Mrs-M
2-13-11, 2:46pm
I hold hope in the nosdiet. It's something I can live with comfortably (from everything I have read so far) and approach with a sense of continuation rather than simply a short-term prospect. I believe most diets or intake reduction plans- regardless of what they pertain to, are too often setup for an "all or nothing" success/failure rate, and while programs setup that way may be fine for some, they are not fine for me. It's simply too rigid, too solidified, and too structured for my liking. I don't have a sweet intake problem per se, I simply have a desire to curb my sweet appetite.

babr
2-13-11, 3:26pm
its great to have others here join in; and it should be individual, casual, and yeah things happen and you dive right back in; but in my book you are still in the group

i will look at the link you sent me kib;

yesterday was hard especially last night; nights are awful; and in addition to the sweets i have to cut out all the stuff that has preservatives; so an extra hurdle; but my body can't take the junk anymore; if i wake up one more time in the early a.m. with sinus i will scream

this morning was the first time i had little congestion

i have cut out the coffee and now drink what the experts on the web say is okay; Nescafe; oh man is it nasty but i allow my self 3 teaspoons of sugar and thats it;

i also have trouble when i eat organic fruit because it starts that sweet craving again; but i know i need the nutrition;

and i know mine is related to emotional rather than physical; i can say halt; but then i have to add all the other emotions in with it:)it would be a really long word

when the voice in my head says just a little won't hurt; i say maybe even out loud; thanks for the suggestion but i am going try to focus or look at what is bothering me etc. for now

i know i need a sense of fullness; so when i eat; i drink 8 ounces of water before and after which is helping

i can't do the S diet because it will start into a dive in and not come out :(

anyway will read that article kib; and its just so great to have people here and others who pop in to offer suppport

will check in later; wish i could respond to everyone; but the eyes won't have it; but thinking of all of us!

JaneV2.0
2-13-11, 6:13pm
Starchy carbohydrates are quickly turned into sugar in your body, first by the amylase in saliva. For practical purposes, eating bread or potatoes equals eating table sugar.

I've seen sweet fruits described as "sugar (fructose) with a few vitamins." For the sake of stable blood glucose, it's a better deal to get those same vitamins from vegetables or non-sweet fruits like avocados or tomatoes. Berries aren't a bad choice if you're going to eat sweet fruit, especially when eaten with a source of fat (cream!) to slow sugar absorption.

Suzanne
2-13-11, 6:18pm
I feel your pain - this is an ongoing struggle for me too. I've found that I have to cut fruit to the minimum. I get my vitamins and minerals from vegetables instead. We are so heavily conditioned to see fruit as the best source that it can come as a shock to find that bell peppers have twice as much Vitamin C as oranges, and much less sugar. 100g of bell peppers give you 80 mg of Vitamin C and only 2.4g of sugars, where 100g of fresh orange will give you over 9g of sugar and only 45g of Vitamin C, for instance. I use vegetables instead of pasta and rice, boosting my nutrition while simultaneously decreasing my exposure to simple carbs - which turn to sugar in a flash once eaten.

Once your tastebuds have reconfigured, it's amazing how sweet vegetables come to taste. Baked pumpkin with cinnamon and a little butter becomes dessert! While I still hanker for cinnamon buns, especially at Ikea, pumpkin is truly delicious and much healthier.

KayLR
2-13-11, 6:57pm
Good luck to you all tomorrow, V-Day. I am going to have to be extra diligent, as folks in my workplace like to bring in goodies for staff. I gave away all 4 boxes of Girl Scout cookies I had pre-ordered to my 2 grandsons today! For me, that's huge.

Still no sugar for me since Friday a.m. I am really wanting to see how different I feel with total abstinence.

babr
2-14-11, 4:24pm
thanks for the info. guys; and great news Kay; hey even if this ends up being an experiment with us; we can always start again

a little easier last night and dh holding my hand

i did read the article you suggested kib; thanks that was good info. also

so far so good today; kept busy which helped

tommorow is my walking day which always raises my endorphins

thinking of everyone
Kris

babr
2-16-11, 2:22pm
well today is one week that I have cut out all sweets except for a total of just a teaspoon over 2 tablespoons of refined sugar for my decaf. coffee; and today i cut back one teaspoon on my coffee as it is tasting sweeter now

last night was hard as we were grocery shopping and i had to go down the candy aisle; but i made it out alive; also need to remember to keep up with the small meals throughout the day plus water; i went out for a walk and didn't eat anything and of course was famished by the time i got home; but i managed to eat healthy and enough that i was satisfied

but its tough; again the nights are hard; i am up in our bedroom by 6:30p.m. at times; just feeling too vulnerable

and i am trying to be compassionate with myself and say you know if give in its okay; i am not a bad person or someone who has no....can't think of the word; i can get back on when i want

thinking of everyone else
Kris

Suzanne
2-16-11, 9:40pm
Yes, it is hard, but it becomes easier after the first two weeks. The American Heart Association finally got off the fence and laid down firm guidelines for sugar intake: no more than 6 teaspoons a day for women and 9 for men. I think this may be the critical mass point; once below that level, one's body starts resetting itself. You're very close to that now; well done!

babr
2-17-11, 3:23pm
oh thanks so much Suzanne; and glad to know it gets easier; as it is really calling to me; but i keep having compassion for myself; afterall; that was all i ate for the first 17 years of my life; sugar

leslieann
2-17-11, 3:39pm
Ever since I said I was in, I have been "out," off the wagon, whatever metaphor you like. In other words, I decided I was going to do the No S program and haven't had a faithful day yet. But I am trying to avoid beating myself up over it. I am also trying to be off gluten and dairy and that's hard, at least for me, too. So I am trying to be a bit compassionate but not too soft. I haven't binged (can never figure out how to spell that past tense) in terms of amounts, but I have eaten a bit of chocolate every single day since I declared myself on the program. What's that about? I wonder about myself. Some resistant inner adolescent maybe? Anyway, that's where I am, and babr, congrats to you, and Susanne, thanks again for the good research base. And Jane, too. I have increased my green peppers and decreased my citrus fruits this week, in the midst of the other non-compliance.

Fortunately every day starts anew and so can I. Just have to hold off on making proclamations until I am really ready, I guess. So I am still in the camp, just not quite loaded back onto the wagon.

Leslie

JaneV2.0
2-17-11, 8:22pm
Red, orange, and yellow peppers are good sources of vitamin C, too. So is red cabbage. A cup of broccoli has 227% of the RDA (info courtesy of FitDay).

Good luck with your program--it's hard to make massive changes all at once. Maybe you should try one change at a time?

Mrs-M
2-18-11, 1:03pm
Lots of great helpful information here, thanks guys. :) Well, not to try and disrupt any milestones or victories of sorts anyone has achieved since that start of this thread, but night before last I bought a key lime cheesecake/pie and come Sunday it's all about me!!! :~) Nosdiet! It's a great thing! :)

Great to hear everyone is doing well. Extended wishes for continued success!

P.S. Kib, where are you? Have been really missing you on the forum. (Hope all is well and looking forward to your return).

TVRodriguez
2-18-11, 3:58pm
I'm on a low-sugar diet because I've been diagnosed with gestational diabetes. So for the past month and a half, I've had no refined sugar at all. I have been following my diabetes diet, which includes fruit as my mid-morning and afternoon snacks. It's a lot easier to diet this way when it's not for me but for someone else (they baby) and when I can say that it's only for a couple of months! kudos to all who are working through sugar issues!

babr
2-18-11, 4:34pm
Thank you Tv for your support and great that you are keeping up with it; it does make a difference when there could be big problems such as affecting you and your babies health

Mrs. M; well i think your doing great; you extended that key lime pie; i can eat a store bought cheese cake in one sitting

and lesliann; Good for you for not beating yourself up; and you may have a point; all parts of you have to be in; but you aren't binging either so that in itself is a big thing

anyone can be in the camp; maybe you eat slower and enjoy it more; or eat one piece less etc.

or just hang out throwing back the sugar while you watch

i remember the first time someone set this up; i wasn't ready and i am too having to take away other foods as well; its tough; i can't say it enough

i am heading into the weekend which usually is even more trying; but am going to start taking horseback riding lessons starting tommorow so that gives me something to look forward to

i shared with my dad that i had started this change; don't want to call it a diet etc. and he said well maybe occasionally you could have a cookie or a donut; and i said no thats the whole problem; i can't just have one; it just never ends

having said that i know i am not perfect and i could jump into the ice cream etc. but hopefully i can jump back out of it

thats another thing its like once it gets in my system; going back off of it; the detox part is terrible!

whether your "in" this or not; all of your input is welcome

oh and thanks Jane for the veggie info.;

Mrs-M
2-20-11, 2:53pm
TVR. So nice to see you again! I thought you were gone and lost forever.


Originally posted by Babr.
i can eat a store bought cheese cake in one sitting Oh boy... I go through stages and periods where I feel as though I could do the same, but my willpower is strong. It's funny because all day long (so far) I've been in and out of the fridge (umpteen dozens of times) to select this and select that (supper preparation for tonight), and I keep seeing that pie sitting there! It's driving me wild!!! :)

Strange thing is, lately, I don't have a sugar craving at all. I don't know where it went but I haven't been plagued by my typical sugar cravings for almost two weeks now. I'm lovin it! For the time I'm going to apply Anne Lee's "nosdiet" to my sugar program and see where things go. Maybe it's just what I need, something to help "restrain" me, curb me if you will against my preferred daily sugar fix. I blame so much of my sugar intake on my upbringing. Mom ALWAYS had homemade baked goods for us. Standard format at our house was "dinner", then "dessert". Very seldom was it just dinner. "Just dinner" nights were the result of tight months/paydays, then mom would cut back on extras, otherwise we kids banked on desserts.

Sending helpful vibes everyone's way to help you all get through your cravings. :) Talk soon.

Mrs-M
2-20-11, 5:30pm
JaneV2.0, Suzanne, Rosemary, Kib, let's talk bean salad for a minute. When I make bean salad I use two large cans of red kidney beans, two large cans of chick peas, and two smaller (regular sized) cans of cut green beans. I add chopped/diced/onion to the recipe along with red and green peppers, then add my sauce ingredients. (One cup white vinegar, a good healthy drizzle of olive oil, and 6-8 leveled table spoons of white sugar).

Now, even though the recipe is semi-sweet, is my body (cells) still going to absorb and utilize the healthy nutrients of the recipe as well as if the recipe didn't contain added sugar?

Rosemary
2-20-11, 5:57pm
Mrs M: Watch out for canned kidney beans - they often have added sugar! I don't know why, but take a look. The brands that our stores have here contain 7g sugars per serving, and sugar is listed as an ingredient. The black beans and other types of beans don't have this. SO I would suggest that if you're making bean salad, you skip adding the additional sugar to your dressing and see how it tastes. 8 tbsp = 1/2 c sugar, which is a lot for a "savory" side dish. (Now I know why I always liked my mom's 3-bean salad so much...)

Mrs-M
2-20-11, 6:11pm
Hi Rosemary. Thank you so much for getting back to me. :) I never gave sugar so much as a second thought when buying beans. Wow! You've opened my eyes wider to that one! Will definitely be having an eye out next time I buy.

I used to make the recipe using between 4-6 tbs of sugar but DH and the kids didn't like it as much, so under pressure I went to using more. (I'm such a softy in some areas). There are so many things I'd like to start eating (minus sugar), but my weakness is never finding the extra time to make up a separate serving or servings for myself beforehand. (A poor excuse I know, but it tends to be the case with me). I need to change my approach.

Gosh, I'm just so shocked over what you've said about beans containing sugar. Well, one good thing is, I like black beans, so maybe/possibly that could be a good alternative to at least the red kidney beans. Thanks again Rose!

Mrs-M
2-20-11, 6:35pm
Couldn't help myself over revisiting this thread again so soon Rosemary. I logged out after posting my last entry to you and made a beeline straight for my pantry, then rifled through every can I had. Bam! Found another can of the beans I use. (Unico brand). They contain 0g's of sugar so do look for Unico brand next time you're out and about.

Just for kicks I Googled "Primo brand", and Primo red kidney beans are shown to contain 1g of sugar. Even more interesting, Unico brand beans (red kidney) contain 6g's of fibre, while Primo brand beans (red kidney) contain 19g's. :confused:

Suzanne
2-21-11, 11:02am
Mrs. M., I'm with Rosemary on always reading labels! While I love pulses, I can't eat them - something in them gives me stupendous migraines. Depending on the beans, there may be large amounts of starch, not all of which is resistant, and starches break down very quickly to sugar, alas. However, if you personally do well with beans and don't gain weight after eating them, go ahead and enjoy them. I've found that anything high in non-resistant starch packs 3-5lb onto my body overnight - I'm not kidding. It's water retention, not body fat, and it drops off again within 24 to 48 hours of abstention. It's a very useful marker, for me anyway, of foods that are bad for my personal glycaemic index.

I know it's a hassle, but could you take out a helping of beans for yourself before adding sugar? Also, lemon juice instead of vinegar, and less of it, would mean less sugar would need to be added to cut the acid. The juice of one or two lemons should be ample for that amount of beans, and it would add vitamin C to the nutritional value!

babr
2-22-11, 6:34am
Thats great Mrs.M about not having the sugar cravings

and speaking of sugar in all our food; dh used to say he didn't crave sweets; but then poured on the ketchup/peanut butter; now he has switched to natural peanut butter; but ketchup is still with him:)

as for me whiteknuckling it all the way:help:; i know someone said it gets better; but its not the cravings as its the psychological issues; i am having such a difficult time in my life; long stories and the desire to soothe myself with sugar is over the top

plus i am going on vacation and you know to me vacation meant free eating; and now i am not looking forward to it; isn't that funny; i love to travel; but i think a big part of that was eating what i wanted

yesterday was the worst day yet on this change in life habits; i eat to live now; i don't care for the foods i eat; but i have to stick to this saliscylate free diet; spelled that wrong but who cares; anyway its been helpful; but still have difficulty; have got to keep a food journal; so i can track this stuff

this group has been so helpful for me; and i know i may fall off the wagon and when i do it will be a big binge; it always is; but i will keep on trying to talk myself away from the junk

Mrs-M
2-22-11, 1:34pm
Suzanne. Thank you so much for your contribution. I'm going to make a conscientious effort whenever I can to start segregating a few things (from the families menu) for myself a few times each week in order to rein in a few of my dietary concerns and wants. The lemon juice idea sounds delicious! I'm going to try it next time. (I love lemon juice).

Babr. Don't worry about falling off the wagon, I'll be there to help you up and get you back on your feet. :) One thing (about me) pertaining to sugar that really helps direct me towards a more successful approach and path regarding reduction, is the fear I have connected with what sugar does. It really is evil.

I was thinking about the vacation you are about to embark upon Babr, and instead of giving thought to all the treats and goodies and things while away, try giving extra thought to all the new things (goodness) that you will be exposed to. Maybe approach it in such a way so as to tell yourself- "this time I'm going to try as many good things for me as I can while I'm away", and maybe just having that sort of mindset will help curb your appetite for all things sweet. I find the psychological barrier surrounding sugar and sweets and treats (for me) is the hardest battle. Once I'm past the psychological aspect of things it's smooth sailing! :)

Rosemary and Suzanne, you are absolute angels and a true blessing to me and to threads such as these. I thank you so much.

Rosemary
2-22-11, 1:58pm
Thanks, Mrs. M. Interesting about the Canadian brands of kidney beans! I've not found any in the U.S. that don't contain sugar... it's possible the organic brands might not.

babr, I agree that it is difficult to continue with healthy eating on vacation - especially if vacation means eating out. Will it be possible for you to bring some "safe" foods along with you, or to cook your own foods while on vacation?

I read about a book that sounds interesting - I just requested it from our library. It's by Susan Albers, a psychologist, and is titled "50 Ways to Soothe Yourself without Food."

Mrs-M
2-22-11, 3:10pm
Hi Rosemary. The sugar content is strange, but how about the fibre content? Isn't THAT strange! Sort of like, "OK now, I'm going to toss a handful of red kidney beans in the corner of my garden over there and I want you beans to be low in fibre, but as for this handful of beans I'm planting over here at the front of my garden, I want you to be high in fibre"! :laff: Just doesn't make any sense to me. >8)

babr
2-23-11, 1:19pm
thanks as always everyone; I will take your suggestions with me;

wish me luck; but then again as i think about it; i am so afraid to fall off the wagon that maybe i am setting myself up; this is not a do or die situation; i think i need to relax more; go with the flow; allow the ideas for sugar to come up and just breathe and be with them; maybe they are saying hey you aren't taking care of yourself; yeah you are taking away sugar but what are you really doing for you

i will try to make a list of things that can be comforting to me; or things that take care of Me!

i will let you know what happens when i return

take care everyone

Glo
2-23-11, 8:52pm
This is Week 5 of my weight watchers journey. I'm down 12 pounds and not craving sugar. I think this has to do with my three to four servings of fruit I eat every day. I feel so much better,too.

Mrs-M
2-23-11, 9:23pm
Hi Babr. Think positive! :) Think, "I'm going to eat everything I haven't eaten before, and everything good for me". In fact you could even make that a sort of promise (pact) with yourself while you're away. Tell yourself that you are not eating anything sweet while vacationing. Then when (if) things get bad and your desire to cheat kicks in, remind yourself that when you get home will be time enough to have something sweet. A challenge all of your own if you will. :)

Glo. I'm really happy for you! Cravings are the worst. Eliminate the cravings and (at least for me) that's 99% of the battle won. :)

Rosemary
2-23-11, 9:41pm
Mrs. M, I think the fiber difference may be due to a difference in serving size between the two brands.

Mrs-M
2-23-11, 9:50pm
Hi Rosemary. :|( Is there a table or something for me to crawl under or hide behind around here anywhere? Never even gave that one a thought... Can size! :doh:

Suzanne
2-24-11, 1:48am
Hi Babr,
Could you think of it as exploring the sweetness of life rather than of food? I know that things are harder for me, craving-wise, when I feel that life is stale, flat, unprofitable, sour, or bitter!

Glo, well done!!

babr
2-25-11, 8:29am
thanks Mrs. M and Suzanne for your ongoing support and ideas; we are actually taking off in a few hours

i realize now that things are not sweet in my life; My M.S. is progressing and currently chewing slowly away at my cognitive skills; was on a patch they use for alzheimers patients and low and behold i am allergic to it>:(

i have had a difficult life and the M.S. and the relatives of it that have now entered my life have deplenished my quality of life

i also gave alot in my life personally and professionally; and the M.S. now affects my ability to give back to myself

and to add coals to the fire? not sure if that is right; but forgot what i was going to say

i have worked on my "self" psychologically and physically for as long as i can remember; have worked with therapists who use different approaches and am currently in therapy

i guess maybe i want to say i have all my life deprived myself of so much of what life has to offer and with the salicylites allergy; body/ mind problems i am tired

so without going into a long litany thats why this is such a struggle; my one friend; who was there whenever i needed it; never talked back; never expected anything; gave me whatever i wanted....

i sure appreciate everyones ideas and will put them to use on the trip; i have not fallen off the wagon.....and try to tell myself; its okay; you aren't perfect; you don't have to be; it will always be there

i don't know how long its been since i started this very low sugar; weeks; and am proud of myself for lasting this long; i think the one thing that has stopped me or things are this; once i start i won't stop; and stopping will be like starting all over again and the quote from a book; what book i am not sure; i have read so many but it says"food is incapable of making feelings go away; it can't make things better; it cannot fill up whatever emptyness is inside you"

but when you take something away; you face the problems that you were trying to cover up; and these issues for me are very difficult

but again i am trying; and today that is enough

will let you know how things go; not sure if this will expire if people don't continue posting; but i will write again when i return

thanks ever so much:thankyou:

Suzanne
2-25-11, 9:04am
My heart goes out to you, Babr. You do have more than your plate as a friend, though - you have Mrs. M, and Rosemary, and me. We're in much the same place, we understand, and it's so much easier to stay strong when you're not alone. If you have time before you leave, here's a link to how to overcome cravings:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/25/cant-beat-food-cravings-four-steps-to-help-you-kick-your-addictions.aspx

Is there anything you can do for yourself that will help you feel nurtured and loved? A special wonderful face cream, maybe? Lavender-scented shampoo? Rose essential oil to dab on your wrists? Things with wonderful smells lock into the pleasure receptors. Really good coffee?

Rosemary
2-25-11, 9:28am
Yes, dietary changes are difficult for everyone... and I personally find sugar to be one of the most difficult.
I read recently that making fists with your hands has been shown to help increase resolve in situations like this.
Getting some exercise helps me, too... I generally just don't feel like eating for a while after exercising.
Are there other things that you can do for yourself that might life your spirits?

I hope you have a great time on your vacation!

Mrs-M
2-25-11, 10:58am
Good morning Babr and Suzanne and Rosemary! :) Babr, you are such a trooper! I admire that in you so much. (Hugs). Taking this time to wish you a safe and happy holiday full of relaxation, fun, and everything for you! :)

Terri
2-27-11, 4:02am
I just saw this post today (having recently returned from vacation) and it is timely because I have set a goal of giving up sugar for all of March. By sugar I mean candy/baked goods/soft drinks/sweetened yogurt/ice cream, but not fruit, which is OK for me, and not white flour, which I don't have very often.

Basically it's because I know I've been eating it way too often, and getting a sugar hangover in the mornings, and with diabetes in my family this is just a habit which I really need to stop. I'm thinking cold turkey might be a good way to get a head start, and after all, it's only one month. Anyone else want to join me?

Mrs-M
2-27-11, 11:48am
Good morning Terri. So happy to have you aboard. :) Could you elaborate a little further Re: "sugar hangovers". I've never heard of them before. A one month sugar challenge? Sure, I'll join you! Anything to see a fellow member better herself in the way of good health and diet intake.

Mrs-M
3-4-11, 10:36pm
Babr. I know you are still away and won't see this until your return, however I hope you are having the time of your life! Just wanted to drop by to say hello and to let you know I've been thinking of you (every day) and can't wait till you're back so you can share your time away with us! :)

Suzanne
3-5-11, 4:05pm
Hi Mrs. M.,
I'm also thinking of Babr, and hoping she's having such a great time that the low-sugar diet doesn't hurt a bit! I'm hanging in on mine; increased my intake of cream and butter and lost 2" off my waist without any change in body weight!!

Mrs-M
3-5-11, 9:26pm
Hi Suzanne! Boy do I feel terrible, awful in fact. I didn't at all mean to make you feel as though I had left you out of the picture, but with Babr on vacation and all I had convinced myself that no one else would stop by to visit this thread. :(

Yay on the inches! I'm sooo happy for you!!! :) (Please tell me your secret). :) I haven't lost any inches- or weight, but I'm still adhering to my sugar-reduction plan and so far so good.

Mmmm, cream and butter! One of my weaknesses. I could (almost) give up on sugar (entirely) in order to consume more cream and butter! Isn't that terrible! Just to give you an example, when I eat pastries it's not so much about the icing or the filling with me as much as it is about the buttery richness (butter croissants)- yum!, and real whipping cream toppings!!!!! Oh my word! :D

KayLR
3-5-11, 11:03pm
I haven't checked in for a while, and just caught up. Babr, I hope your trip was refreshing and uplifting. So sorry you're having a tough time. Glad you're checking in here.

Since I've been consciously trying to back off from sugar, and eating more healthily, I have lost 5 lb. For me, this is huge. My doctor was quite pleased. Coincidentally, I forgot that I had had a blood test a while back as a baseline, then last week she ordered me another one. This is 1AC or something like that (can't remember) which measures your blood sugar over a span of three months. Well, my second one was far below the first, and now she's not worried about it anymore. She did hound me a bit to exercise more, and I know I don't do enough, but it's so crappy out til spring here, it will be a struggle for me. Gonna keep up the plan, tho.

Terri
3-6-11, 12:04am
Six days into the month and so far I am doing good with no sugar at all. The first three days I had cravings but not so much now. I did have to walk away at work on Friday when someone came around with treats for everyone, and I find that I have to be careful that I don't swap sugar for other junk food or alcohol. I'm trying to sub in veggies, fruit (but not too much) and legumes instead.

Mrs-M: "sugar hangover" is how I describe it with some of my friends, when you wake up very thirsty and with a bit of a headache after eating a lot of sugar at night. Diabetic friends can really relate to the extreme thirst part of it, and I am a little afraid that I will end up with a diabetes diagnosis if I don't get my health under control now (I'm early 30s, very overweight, and diabetes runs in both sides of the family).

Suanne and Kay - how exciting that you are seeing good results!

Mrs-M
3-6-11, 12:53am
Kay. Congratulations on the weight loss! Well done. Keep up the great work and check in again when you can. :)

Terri. So glad to hear from you. I've been patiently awaiting your return since the introduction of our one month challenge. I wanted to post a few things pertaining to it but held back on account of you not being around. (Flatly refuse to carry on a conversation with myself)! :laff: Glad to have you back.

The sugar-hangovers sound scary. Thank goodness I've never suffered from one. I do think my sugar intake pales in comparison to most peoples, even when I do go on a sugar binge.

For all those taking part in this thread I wish you continued and improved success. When times get tough and you're ready to crumble (under the stress of fighting your urges and desires and cravings), focus, and remind yourself that you are not alone in your struggles. "Step by step"- "day by day" should be everyone's adage when it comes to introducing difficult lifestyle changes such as this one. One day at a time. :) Talk soon!

Glo
3-6-11, 2:12am
Still doing well on weightwtchers; am down 18 pounds and the best part is not craving sugar!

Suzanne
3-6-11, 12:29pm
Hi Mrs. M., the only thing I'm doing differently is eating more high-quality fat; I use Kerry Gold butter (Irish brand, grassfed cows), and Horizon heavy whipping cream, which is actually heavy! Most so-called heavy creams pour like milk; the Horizon is viscous. I'm definitely not getting any more exercise, and given that my weight hasn't changed, I don't think I've reduced my calorie intake either. Nevertheless, the jeans that were hard to zip now have enough space for me to put two fingers between them and me! Carb cravings hit me very hard last week, which is always a marker for oncoming migraine, which arrived with full punch. It makes no difference to the intensity of the headache whether I carb out or not between the warning and the arrival - indeed, if I start on simple carbs, I totally pig out on them. No satiety reaction at all, and if they're crunchy, I am totally lost. A grassfed egg (always makes me giggle) fried in butter, or some grassfed beef, very nicely quenches the carb craving, which seems counterintuitive.

I'm reading "The Resilient Gardener" by Carol Deppe, and making surprised recognition noises; Deppe is caeliac, I'm merely gluten-sensitive, but we seem to have an awful lot in common! She finds that she has reasonable satiety ONLY with truly freerange eggs and grassfed meats - she puts it down to the Omega-3 levels, which are low in CAFO products and high in grassfed. Research is ongoing, but it looks as if 30-40% of humans can't make medium-chain saturated fats into long ones, and have to get them ready-made; ready-made ones are found only in the fat of animal, fish, fowl, or mammal, eating the right foods for their kinds. This is very interesting, as it seems likely that our ancestors evolved to exploit the noonday sun niche, when big predators are torpid, and exploited the big guys' kills. By the time we got to them, just about all of the meat would be gone, but the long leg bones and brain case are extremely difficult for predators to crack; clever hands holding rocks could release the very high-quality bone marrow and brain. Our brains and eyes, as well as cell membranes, are high in EPA and DHA, found in large quantities in bone marrow and brain!! The Swiss Paradox is very interesting in this light; surprisingly high levels of Omega-3s in grassfed animal products. Feeding flaxseed to cows does NOT increase the O-3 levels of their milk.

Getting back to sweets, sweet potatoes are becoming a staple; naturally sweet to a tongue undulled by sugar, high in fibre, and amazingly high in potassium. Potassium is hitting the news lately, as insufficient intake is being tied to diabetes and heart disease. Today I shall make sweet potato and cauliflower curry.

Mrs-M
3-6-11, 1:36pm
Good morning Suzanne. I love your posts!!! So thorough in knowledge and insight. You are such a blessing to people like myself. I want to apologize (to you) ahead of time, due to the fact that I will (more than likely) overlook mentioning a few things in my post simply because you've touched on so much and I lack quality reading and retaining ability.

The two finger space you've managed to work on between you and your pants is awesome! :) Keep up the victory! As far as the book you're currently reading goes, it sounds really interesting. The scientific (and factual) logistics of intake and the production of necessary fuels (nutrients) related to quantity values and how our bodies react to certain food groups and how they either produce or don't produce certain compounds and nutrients I find incredibly fascinating. Milestone strides and victories really are being made today in relation to all that by the sounds of it.

The bit on potassium is amazing. All of the little hidden secrets that equate to such immeasurable and monumental findings.

The sweet potato and cauliflower curry sounds mouthwatering delicious! Is it an easy recipe to make?

Suzanne
3-6-11, 7:33pm
Hiya,
No real recipe for the curry. I usually start off by sauteing onions, garlic, and curry powder in a little oil, with a dab of my husband's super hot hot sauce, then I add a grated carrot and stir for a few seconds. Cubed sweet potato (quite big chunks, so it won't disintegrate) go in next, with cauliflower florets. If I'm using meat, that goes in now as well. I lightly brown everything, then add tomato paste and stock - homemade for preference. I like my stock to set in a stiff jelly, so I chop bones and cook them down with a goodly splash of vinegar or lemon juice to dissolve calcium into the stock. Quantities are a bit freeform; a lot depends on what's in the fridge. I don't use salt while cooking as it's easier to add it on the plate. If I have a couple of bell peppers, they may be sliced into the curry, or served on side with a squeeze of lemon juice. It is yummy, and doesn't need rice!

I find it easier to go by nutrition than calories when deciding what to eat. 100 calories of white rice is almost no nourishment, while 100 calories of cauliflower offers a surprising amount of minerals and vitamins!

Mrs-M
3-7-11, 1:10pm
Good morning Suzanne. :) Thank you ever so kindly for the curry recipe! Such a pleasant change it will be to help mix things up. I love relaxed (to taste) recipes! It's how I normally cook, informally. Sometimes someone will ask me- "how much of such and such do you put in", and I'll say- "I don't know". 99% of all recipes I make come from the inner cavities of my cranium. :) Cooking any other way IMO would take all the fun and enjoyment out of it. I've set Wednesday up as being my trial day for this recipe. Will post again to let you know. Thanks again Suzanne.


Originally posted by Glo.
Still doing well on weightwtchers; am down 18 pounds and the best part is not craving sugar!Great stuff! Keep checking in and keep up the great work!!!

JaneV2.0
3-7-11, 10:04pm
Excellent mainstream article from the L.A. Times: http://articles.latimes.com/print/2010/dec/20/health/la-he-carbs-20101220

"Fat is not the problem," says Dr. Walter Willett, chairman of the department of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health. "If Americans could eliminate sugary beverages, potatoes, white bread, pasta, white rice and sugary snacks, we would wipe out almost all the problems we have with weight and diabetes and other metabolic diseases."

Terri
3-7-11, 11:50pm
I was reading through the latest US dietary recommendations the other day (they came up on a link on some log I was reading) and increasing potassium levels is one of the key recomendations. Reducing sugar is on there, reducing "solid fat" including butter and animal fat, reducing sodium.

Suzanne you are 100% right about the "nutrition rather than calories" which I am trying to focus on more. Not always easy when traveling for work, so I'm never in one place for long, but if I focus on the healthiest option (by which I mean highest nutritional value), it helps. Today I was really excited to find a nectarine in my fridge drawer, and my vegetables consist of three carrots and three onions. I really need to go shopping!

My no added sugar report: I used a tablespoon of bottled cranberry sauce in my oatmeal this morning. Other than that, have been doing very well.

JaneV2.0
3-8-11, 12:38am
"... Reducing sugar is on there, reducing "solid fat" including butter and animal fat, reducing sodium...."


The idea that naturally occurring fat is somehow poisonous is a canard that refuses to die. I suspect the corn and soy oil industries help keep it alive.

Mrs-M
3-8-11, 8:42am
JaneV2.0. Thanks for the link. It's encouraging reading articles like this. I gain a sense of promise and hope knowing there are alternatives and options to betterment.

Terri. The only thing I've been cheating on is using a little honey to sweeten my coffee/tea, aside from that no sugar extras. The cranberry sauce/oatmeal idea sounds delicious! I must try that.

Suzanne
3-8-11, 8:52am
I'm with you on the fat, Jane! Since decreasing (again!) my simple carb intake and increasing my good fats (cream and butter), my waistline has shrunk 2 inches. As to the health aspects, my HDL is 77, my triglycerides 46, my fasting blood sugar is 87, my over-50 colonoscopy "beautiful" according to the guy who knows. Of course, this may not be true for somebody with a different genetic makeup, but I'm certainly not alone in thriving on this diet. Carb creep is definitely always lurking for unwary moments.

Did you see the Gary Taubes interview where a reporter asked Taubes how the low-carb diet could possibly be good for children? Taubes responded that the diet can't NOT be good for children; an abundance of vegetables, a little fruit, adequate protein, high-value fats certainly trumps the gunk that kids are routinely fed in Westernized countries. I have to play cards with MIL several times a week, and she's a person who HAS to have the TV on while she's awake. The ads leave me breathless: "Give your child something that he LIKES to eat" accompanied by smiling mom and kid, and Pop Tarts or similar sugar-laden abomination...

Mrs-M
3-8-11, 9:31am
Originally posted by Suzanne.
I have to play cards with MIL several times a week, and she's a person who HAS to have the TV on while she's awake. The ads leave me breathless: "Give your child something that he LIKES to eat" accompanied by smiling mom and kid, and Pop Tarts or similar sugar-laden abomination...Touché!

Suzanne
3-9-11, 8:42am
Yikes, not meaning to be mean! I am often shocked by the idea that cold cereal is healthy simply because it contains little to no saturated fat when it can be 48% sugar...and artificially coloured and flavoured....non-alcoholic fatty liver, seen as precursor to diabetes and metabolic syndrome, is caused by sugar. High triglyceride levels, taking over from LDL as the wickedest of the blood lipids, are usually caused by, you guessed it, excessive simple carb intake. Diabetics who eat a high-fat, low-carb diet, can essentially reverse the disease. Soda is especially strongly implicated in the diseases of civilization, and that's liquid sugar, containing up to 3 days' allowance of sugar for a woman, PER CAN. Suddenly a couple of eggs for breakfast, scrambled in butter, looks very good indeed. Ooops, getting back onto my hobby horse!

Suzanne
3-9-11, 9:00am
Hobby horse in full gallop...http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EUY/is_6_10/ai_113524724/. Note that the increased intake of fats has been from industrial seed oils; America's use of butter and lard has plummeted. And - last thing for this morning! - it's excessive sugar intake (more than 6 teaspoons a day) that damages the kidneys so that proteins can no longer be properly handled, whether those proteins come from beef or from beans. Many beans are very high in simple carbohydrate, as I found to my cost; I'm hypoglycaemic, and I love legumes - bad combination. Okay, this is the last thing - protein is broken down in the stomach and absorbed in the small intestine. The stuff that ferments in the colon is - sugar, particularly sugars like raffinose, common in legumes, for which humans don't have an enzyme with which to break it down and digest it.

Suzanne
3-9-11, 9:02am
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/20/health/la-he-carbs-20101220

babr
3-9-11, 3:45pm
I am back! So glad people kept this going; i thought of everyone while i was away and well went off the wagon; but only one binge; which is good for me; then got into the sweets when i got back home!

but as of monday i am back on the wagon; i think i decided that really this was a vacation; but i didn't overdo it; i tried to limit it so that made me feel better

its the evenings still that get me; when we were back in the room; but going back on the minimal sweets has not been so bad so far

its great to hear how people are doing and also appreciate all the info. you have provided! I will try to look at the articles bit by bit so i don't hurt my eyes too much

my body has appreciated my avoidance of salicylates; i am finding that i don't have to sleep basically sitting up due to my sinuses

i had a great vacation! We have saved hard over the years; lived well below our means; and travel are big on our list!

if i can stay salicylate free for awhile i can then introduce foods to gage my reaction

anyway so far so good; oh i observed myself when eating sweets; its this love kind of relationship; the best friend in the whole wide world right by my side; i think i said this earlier

anyway thanks for keeping the train moving while i was away; i am going to have to spend some time reading all the posts because i thought it might get dropped; but this is great!

glad to be back with all of you who share my struggle and the supporters as well

Terri
3-9-11, 4:15pm
Welcome back babr!

I didn't mean to start anything on the fat question! For the record, I don't think fats are "bad". However, personally I weigh too much because I eat too much, and I believe that the "eat too much" part of the equation is way too much sugar/simple carbs but also more fats than I should be eating. When I try to watch my diet, I generally will eat less butter and oil although I won't eliminate either one and I keep eating avocadoes. I also put a strong emphasis on reducing total carb intake and choosing mostly complex carbs over simple carbs. I don't feel a need to replace carbs with fats because I believe my total intake is already high enough.

I won't argue with the kind of health stats that you're getting Suzanne! Clearly adding butter and cream in place of carbs is working for you.

Mrs-M
3-9-11, 10:16pm
Suzanne. As always, lots of great info! Such a guru you are! Thanks. :)

Babr. Welcome back! Looking forward to chatting with you over the next few days. :)

Terri. Hope all is still going well with you sugar wise. :) Maybe we can trade a few notes over the course of the next few days.

earthshepherd
3-10-11, 6:36am
I am trying to give up sugar completely for Lent, and hopefully will continue. Great to have a support group here!

Mrs-M
3-10-11, 1:59pm
Support really is so important for many. I'm one who thrives on support, just knowing others are going it with me (by my side) helps so much. Sending a well-wish your way ES!

Terri
3-10-11, 10:34pm
Mrs M - yes thank you, I am still doing well although I was in a cafe for lunch today and spent a bit of itme looking over a bunch of lovely little cakes that they had on offer. But, I held strong and did not buy any.

I suspect the craving may have been brought on by eating too much fruit the night before I find it easy to overindulge on fruit, which does have a high natural sugar content, it is something that I should maybe be careful to monitor. Does anyone have any idea if this could be correct, and if so, how to address it without cutting fruit out of my diet?

Earthshepherd, happy to hear that you are also giving up sugar for a time.

babr
3-11-11, 7:57am
sure appreciate everyone keeping the dialogue going; won't repeat my eye/dognitive problem which affects my ability to respond to the ongoing threads but will try to jump in there somewhere

as i start to write this i see that the liitle line that follows you around; don't know the official name but anyway it shakes on my side of planet earth

and thats where i am at right now; had three days where i kept to the low sugar intake then thursday was walking/bussing doing my errands and thought i would have a coffee; not on my current health eating plan with some kind of sweetner; then hard apple cider; wanted to try it and dh brought some homemade home and of course more sugar; then after therapy it was more sugar and need i say more

but today is a new day; so we are starting again; or back on the wagon; i guess i didn't fall off; maybe walked beside the wagon after making a choice to jump

in terms of diet; i don't believe i have any carbs./no bread,cereal,crackers; just whole grains; am trying to keep the fat and calories within the recommended doses; i do eat fruits and veggies; though can't eat the good veggies like spinich every day but stick them in every other day; this is as you know because of my allergy to salicylates; big word i know;

i wouldn't think fruits would be a problem; well i guess its the amounts; like a dozen bananas; i would consume alot of fruits but try to again keep it balanced with the other things

i think i consume sugar whether i am happy, sad, lonely etc.; best friends are there for you at all times right

i was proud of myself for making up a big bowl of ice cream and when it didn't taste good after a few spoonfuls just dumped it

i think we have to look at the positives; be compassionate; what do we do that is healthy; someone sent me an article basically repeating that if a friend was having a problem we would talk with them in a caring, compassionate way but not so with ourselves; so it says to write a letter to yourself about what you are going through and i guess respond as you would to a friend; will try to accomplish that today

i also use the visual of a loving mother taking me in her arms as i sob out my difficulties; when you haven't had that kind of love or you did or lost your mother; i think this works well with some people

can you tell i was a social worker for many years; one side of my brain; the feeling side a therapist told me is very intelligent; its the other side that is being chomped on by M.S.

i guess i could say that i follow the vegetarian pyramid guide; though can't be a vegg head anymore; allergic to soy; so eat turkey/egg whites instead for protein;

well a long story but thats me; may check in later if i start feeling like i am white knuckling it

group hug

JaneV2.0
3-11-11, 12:51pm
Welcome back babr!

I didn't mean to start anything on the fat question! For the record, I don't think fats are "bad". However, personally I weigh too much because I eat too much, and I believe that the "eat too much" part of the equation is way too much sugar/simple carbs but also more fats than I should be eating. When I try to watch my diet, I generally will eat less butter and oil although I won't eliminate either one and I keep eating avocadoes. I also put a strong emphasis on reducing total carb intake and choosing mostly complex carbs over simple carbs. I don't feel a need to replace carbs with fats because I believe my total intake is already high enough.

I won't argue with the kind of health stats that you're getting Suzanne! Clearly adding butter and cream in place of carbs is working for you.

I feel best and can lose weight (albeit at a glacial pace) at 60% fat, which is on the low side for dedicated low-carbers.

JaneV2.0
3-11-11, 1:11pm
...

I suspect the craving may have been brought on by eating too much fruit the night before I find it easy to overindulge on fruit, which does have a high natural sugar content, it is something that I should maybe be careful to monitor. Does anyone have any idea if this could be correct, and if so, how to address it without cutting fruit out of my diet? ...

Yes, fruit can spike insulin and cause cravings. Some fruits are worse than others in this regard--like bananas. Berries are generally considered a better choice--check glycemic index lists or the USDA values. If you choose to eat fruit, I suggest adding cheese or cream or another fat or protein to help slow absorption.

babr
3-11-11, 1:44pm
a moment of white knuckling it and decided well i am tired and tried to lay down; i feel fruit helps me when it gets bad; i mean not too much but it seems to help during the tough times

a nutritionist? i put a question mark by that as i didn't like her approach; she didn't ask me any questions just started to go into a spiel about being gluten intolerant even though i have never had problems with my digestive system unless its milk related products; but she said that eating large amounts of protein at each meal cuts out the sweet cravings

i am at home all day which isn't helpful; but do others drink lots of water; i have used this also where you drink 8oz. of water before and after a meal to help with the feeling of fullness; which is one area that i need; to feel full i mean

i forgot that once you go back on the sugar which i did you are back to the hard times of withdrawl.

i keep posting as this helps when i am struggling

JaneV2.0
3-11-11, 3:50pm
A surprising number of people are sensitive to gluten or just wheat in general, and find all kinds of symptoms disappear when they quit eating it. I tend to have achy joints, a stuffy nose, and apthous ulcers when I eat wheat. FWIW.

JaneV2.0
3-11-11, 5:45pm
And, in related news: http://www.usask.ca/research/news/read.php?id=989

"March 04, 2011 SASKATOON - Researchers at the University of Saskatchewan have discovered, after a two-year investigation, that diets high in carbohydrates are a probable mechanism for the skyrocketing rates of Type 2 diabetes.'

Suzanne
3-11-11, 7:56pm
Hi Babr,
Yes, eating fruit can definitely be problematic for sugar-sensitive people. There's a huge misconception that fruit is "natural" and therefore it has to be good for you. Well, hemlock, yew, and foxglove are all natural; so are arsenic and radioactivity, but we don't go out of our way to bring them into our lives! When I say that our common fruit is not natural, what I mean is that you will not find supersweet apples, or big juicy pineapples, or honey-sweet apricots, or large sweet bananas, in the wild; wild-type watermelons taste a lot like cucumbers. All of our fruits have been selectively bred for extra sweetness, and this process really started accelerating in the 1970s. Once genetic engineering came in, it was possible to get an apple, say, with three to five times as much sugar as its parent variety. Old cookery books, pre-1970s, always advise that strawberries and melon should be heavily sugared prior to eating; grapefruit too; fruit pies were made with a lot of sugar, and fruit salad was always served in a sugary syrup because most of the fruit going into it was naturally tart. Now we have grapefruit almost as sweet as oranges, and it's easy to get sweet apple pie without adding a single grain of sugar to the fruit! It's because sweetness is so rare in nature that animals, including humans, are so crazy about it. A truly natural fruit is something like a crab apple, which isn't all that enticing despite its extremely high vitamin C content. The only really wild fruits that are sweet enough to eat with pleasure are some of the berries, but even a sweet wild strawberry is a wimp next to its cultivated cousin. Cultivated fruits contain a lot of fructose, which is being fingered more and more often as a factor in fatty liver disease, heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease, and other diseases of civilization. Drs. Richard Johnson, Robert Lustig, and Joseph Mercola suggest that we limit our fruit intake to 3 small pieces per day, and choose those from low-fructose varieties. As Jane says, it's a good idea to eat the fruit with some good heavy cream or a spoonful of cottage cheese (Mozzarella, ricotta, mascarpone, creme fraiche, lebni are all good too), to cut the glycemic index. Choosing heirloom varieties of fruit will also help to cut the sugar spike; at first these fruits may taste sour to you, but as your taste buds reconfigure, they start tasting really good.

I once read a blog by an ex-fruitarian who said he quit cold-turkey when he worked out that he was eating a pound of sugar a day, all of it derived from fruit, and realized that that was why his teeth were rotting at such a high rate. Denise Minger, who's a raw fooder who eats a LOT of fruit along with some raw veg and small amounts of animal proteins, has posted several blogs on the dental problems associated with a high-fruit diet. Chris Masterjohn found that his healthy high-fruit vegetarian diet gave him a mouthful of cavities in just over a year, and set to work to find out why.

It's a mantra of the official health spokespeople that a good, healthy diet is based on fruit, vegetables, and whole grains, so this is now part of received wisdom. Certainly fruit provides vitamins - but often you can get far more vitamins from veggies at a cost of one-third or less the amount of sugar.

I know from my own experience just how tempting sugar is, and am frequently running after the wagon... Like Jane, I find that I do best on a high-fat (about 50% of my caloric intake), moderate protein, very low carbohydrate diet. I prefer to get my carbs from vegetables, most of them non-starchy.

Mrs-M
3-11-11, 10:46pm
A big hello to everybody!

Terri. So proud of you I am for staying strong. :) Temptations are the worst and I know in speaking for myself once temptation is present, it's all I can do to stave off the attack.

Babr. If I have to I'll tie you too that wagon Babr! :laff: All funnies aside, making a good solid conscientious effort to improve in faltering areas is the biggest step of all. I see you are doing that and I'm proud of you for that. Keep up the great work.

JaneV2.0. Your insight as to fruit intake and sugar spikes is interesting and very helpful. One fruit I find that almost seems to quash any signs of craving for me is grapefruit, so I eat a lot of them. One a day, sometimes two. P.S. Thanks for the link too.

Suzanne. Great post. I really try and feed off of so many of the things you mention and say in the way of nutrition. You really do have such a handle on it. Thanks as always.

Well, I bought two large flats of strawberries day before yesterday and I'm about to sit down to a bowl of prepared strawberries. I bought some half & half cream to go along with them (which I know probably isn't ideal), but for me this is my natural sugar treat for the day that hopefully will tie me over for a few more days.

(Big warm caring group hug)! Have a great evening everybody!

Terri
3-12-11, 7:03am
My no-sugar March took a couple of hits over the last two days, but it was just a few small things - one cookie on Friday night, and a taste each of 2 friend's ice creams today as well as two chocolate-covered strawberries. Not perfect, but still way less sugar than I would have had if I was not trying to eliminate added sugar this month, so I will call it a minor hiccup and am still committed to my goal.

Suzanne - Berries are probably what I will have most often in larger quantities. I think it's the finger food aspect of them. I do take your point about more vitamins from veggies at a lower caloric value, and about the increased sugar in modern fruits. I will have to ponder some more, but I like your heirloom varieties of fruits idea.

Mrs-M
3-12-11, 10:03am
Hi Terri. Hits and stumbles and low points and falls are all to be expected with such a challenge, just so long as one is able to get up again and dust themselves off, all is well! :)

I have a revelation to make. Last night i.e. my strawberry feast, I ate the entire bowl of berries with cream WITHOUT sugar! First time in my life I've done that and boy did I ever enjoy them!!! Willpower! :) Get this, I went to the pantry and got the sealed tub of granulated sugar out, put it on the counter, opened the lid, looked at it (the sugar) for a few seconds, put the lid back on, put the tub back in the pantry, poured the cream over, and went and sat down to enjoy! So proud I am!

babr
3-12-11, 10:30am
Yea! Mrs. M; you are such a sweetie and sure appreciate taking the time to respond to everyone; good for you on the strawberries!

Terri; great view of your hiccup; i so often beat myself up; gotta work up on the beating up issue

Suzanne; wow fasinating information; questions what do you mean by heirlooms? would yogurt suffice with a fruit for example? and i think i have to read back to your previous posts regarding insulin etc.

and thanks for your clarification on wheat; my body or what the neurology office believes the m.s. has gotten into my ? and well i have negative responses to so many foods; for example oats and rice are fine in the salicylate category but stuff me up at night which then leads to sinus

and with the veggies; the salicylate levels on veggies isn't good on the additives, salicylates, amines and glutamates diet that i am trying to follow; i do have spinich; but the other cauliflower, celery, cabbage i believe aren't high in nutrients

what i need to do is get more focused on this elimination plan; keeping a food log; and behave for 4 weeks so i can then introduce more nutritious foods; i do take a multivitamin; have whole grains; millet and my protein; turkey; yogurt; eggs

last night i had brown rice and woke up with one side of my sinuses blocked; gotta go back and stick to the millet; but the last batch from the coop had bug larvae in it; so need to get them to order a fresh batch; of course it is a source of protein:)

sure appreciate everyones support, information involvement in our little group here; as always knowing you are not alone helps

Mrs-M
3-12-11, 9:12pm
Hi Babr. Sounds like you've rebounded back from your trip and that's so good to see. One area that makes sugar-challenges additionally challenging for me is having younger children and always having sweet things around (for them). If it was just DH and myself I know I could kick it up a notch with little effort, but for now I'm not going to allow any of that to get in the way of a good thing. :) Sending everyone here a great big warm hug!

Mrs-M
3-13-11, 1:00pm
Good morning Suzanne (and good morning to everyone here)! :) Suzanne, I wanted to mention to you that I didn't have a chance to prepare your potato and cauliflower curry recipe last week, but this week it's happening! It was important for me to let you know that I didn't forget about "it" or "you", and how much I appreciated the recipe. I'll be posting a followup Re: the recipe, so do stay tuned.

Suzanne
3-13-11, 1:28pm
For those who're interested in heirloom varieties: Slow Food has a list, here: http://www.slowfoodusa.org/downloads/raft-new_england_risk.pdf, from pages 2-4. The Heirloom Orchard has a lovely website; its interest is in nursery stock of heirloom varieties: http://www.heirloomorchardist.com/the_heirloom_orchardist/recommended-sources-for-h.html

We're getting back to reading labels! Many supermarkets and produce stores simply sell "apples" or "potatoes" and price is the determining factor in food selection.

When I was in England, I was fascinated, delighted, and highly envious of the food delivery system. Even mid-range supermarkets like Sainsbury's - more or less equivalent to Safeway here - have a high degree of diversity and transparency in the food chain. One can buy, say, strawberries, which are packaged with a label that provides the variety's name, the name of the person who grew it, the county in which it was grown, and often a url for the farmer's operation! I really like this, for many reasons, especially those of provision of great variety, keeping smallscale farmers on the land, keeping heirloom varieties alive, ease of pinpointing the origin of contaminated food, and overall the personal involvement in the foodshed. I was also envious of the amount of information offered; there could well be 20 varieties of potatoes on offer, both bulk and prepackaged, with the best cooking method for that particular kind of potato!

In Croatia, there isn't a large produce section in supermarkets, both because so many people grow much of their own food, even in cities, but also because of the markets. Every town has several farmers markets open every day except Sunday. One can buy not only veggies and fruit, but also cheeses made from the milk of the owner's sheep, goats, and cows - the last are rare in Dalmatia because there is not a whole lot of good grazing land and they don't do CAFOs. The cheese maker always has a photo album, and will happily show you photos of her animals, tell you their names and ages, and tell you the qualities of a particular cheese. The taste and consistency of the cheese depend on the animal's fodder. The cheesemaker very likely cuts fodder each day to hand feed the animals. A herd of goats or sheep, for a typical cheesemaker, runs between 3 and 10 animals, and the one-cow dairy herd is common too. Again, I like the transparency, and the personal involvement, and the food itself. Many of the varieties on sale are highly local; seed stock is passed from mother to daughter (usually, but either parent may be the gardener, and pass stock to either daughter or son), so the plants are very well suited to the microclimate. Again, farms are tiny by our standards; a farm producing enough income to support the farmer could be 1/4 acre and very rarely as much as 10 acres. Arable land is scarce and expensive.

There's a lot of controversy over the Mediterranean Diet and how eating less red meat and butter and more beans is the answer. I think it's a lot more fundamental than that, because France, Italy, and Spain eat large amounts of red meat, butter, and fullfat cheese but still have better population-level health than the USA. Mediterranean peoples have far better access to healthy - in every sense - food, and are much more selective, in general, than most westerners, despite having much less income - Europe is steadfastly rejecting GMO foods despite enormous pressure from the USA, for the very simple reason that Europeans don't believe GMO foods are healthy and don't care whether they're cheap!

I'm currently working (between essays for school, homework, and working for income) on a quick-and-dirty comparison of USA longevity and the big four: heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer, meat intake, sugar intake, alcohol intake, and tobacco usage, with these same markers in Mediterranean countries (I'm using all countries with a coastline in the Med. Sea), China, India, and Japan. I still have a LOT of work to do - I'm getting the food information from the factsheets from the FAO and it's very time-consuming - after which I'll make graphs. It'll be interesting to see what trends appear. Speaking of essays, I have one due tomorrow and I haven't even started it!!

Mrs-M
3-13-11, 1:43pm
Hi again Suzanne. I enjoyed your entry very much! Thank you.

Terri
3-13-11, 5:54pm
Suzanne, how wonderful it would be to have that much information about where food comes from! Back home from May through October I can buy produce at a local farmer's market and know exactly where it comes from, but I haven't found anything similar here in Australia.

Mrs-M, good for you enjoying your strawberries and cream without sugar!

babr, keeping a food log is a good idea, especially if you are having food issues, it may help identify patterns.

I keep coming along slowly, I will say that this is much harder than any other "elimination challenge" that I have done. I gave up alcohol in February, and didn't even think about it except once or twice when I was out with friends and offered a drink and turned it down. Sugar, I think about almost every day (and sometimes more than once a day).

Suzanne
3-14-11, 8:54am
I love food...the history of agriculture, plant/animal domestication, recipe books, eating...

Yesterday I made a batch of lemon curd, ostensibly as a gift for my sister in law, as she loves it, and we had a bumper crop of lemons. Yeah? I made 2 jars, but there was an incident involving a wooden spoon, a spatula, and the almost-empty pot - and where's that wagon???

JaneV2.0
3-14-11, 12:55pm
Well there is the addictive nature of that white, powdery substance:
http://www.details.com/style-advice/the-body/201103/carbs-caffeine-food-cocaine-addiction?printable=true&currentPage=3

babr
3-14-11, 6:45pm
wow Suzanne and Jane; geeze i don't know what to say; there is so much info. here; i will attempt to read it in pieces; i am now off the wagon but holding on with a piece of rope; the last two days; not good;

i have been able to pretty much stay away from carbs./something i had to give up awhile ago due to the wheat, oats, rice allergy; but i neeed to read more on this

and the heirloom; fascinating; i wonder where i could find the heirloom foods grown in our state; will try google

i remain commited just flying high on the coffee/caffeine; so maybe i am hanging more like from a balloon; somehow dragging on the ground; seems like its putting myself down

maybe we should make this a boat and we could tie inner tubes, ski's ; :)

whatever this vehicle is or the group is i remain committed to trying as best as i can do

thanks mrs. m; i love your pictures; would be difficult with kids; i have a large child; she just is inside me; she is primarily a sugar based girl; but i am learning to love her given all that she has been through

take care
kris

Mrs-M
3-14-11, 7:12pm
Terri. When the sugar temptation grown strong, reach out, we are all here. Holding hands together and feeling the support of what we all bring to the forum just may be the ticket to allowing us all to overcome our weaknesses and capitalize on our successes no matter how big or how small. (Always there for you Terri, and everyone here)! :)

Suzanne. I love eating too and about the lemon curd, too funny!!! :laff: Shame on you! :)

JaneV2.0. Thank you for the link. I'm saving it for tonight when I can sit down (in peace and quiet) with a hot cup of tea to digest it.

Babr. You are such a sweetheart. :) I have a big kid inside me too, it doesn't come out all the time, but it does come out, sometimes when I least expect it! :laff: Maybe we need to kick this challenge up a notch, I'm thinking by making tomorrow an entirely no sugar day, no exceptions, no excuses. :~) I was thinking it might be fun to (add hawk) throw in an occasional "odd day" challenge into the mix, might inspire us to put the run on that big kid inside us! :laff: What do you all say? Sound like an idea? Do let me know. Maybe the introduction of my odd day challenge is too short in the way of notice this time around, maybe instead we can push the day ahead and make it happen say on Friday or something like that. Nothing like tightening the thumb screws one more turn!

Anyhow, as always, hugs all around, to all! Looking forward to talking to everyone again.

Suzanne
3-15-11, 3:20am
Well, well, well - cast an eye over this! Could it be that mainstream media is finally stepping up to the plate? http://www.vancouversun.com/health/weighty+issue+much+sugar+much/4418205/story.html

Just a few months ago, the American Heart Association stopped playing footsie and came out with a flat statement: no more than 6 teaspoons of sugar a day for women, and no more than 9 a day for men. It carefully avoided the thorny issue of children...yet children are particularly vulnerable, as shown by the booming increase in Type II diabetes even in very young children. Once we add up the sugar in the cereal, in the fruit-flavoured drinks, pink and brown milk, candies, cookies, other treats - it could easily be over a half-cup a day. I don't buy the idea that being active burns up the sugar; my FIL walked 10 miles a day for most of his adult life, worked up a real sweat in the garden, controlled his blood sugar with medication to the satisfaction of his doctor - and died of end-stage diabetic renal failure, having first lost his sight to diabetic retinal neuropathy.

Mrs-M
3-15-11, 9:52am
Good morning Suzanne. Great article, lots and lots of information. Speaking of all things laden with sugar nowadays, every time I'm out shopping (groceries) I'm surprised and disappointed that more (food-product wise) isn't being introduced with low-sugar and even no-sugar.

Kashi brand breakfast cereals has one whole grain puffed variety of breakfast cereal that's completely sugar-free, everything else (brand name wise) contains sugar.

Touching on pure 100% fruit juices and drinks, the sugar content of most is higher than that of carbonated soft drinks. In fact one could "cut" a majority of all 100% natural juices we see on store shelves with soda water to reduce the overall amount of sugar per serving. (Most juices are like syrup in their sweetness value).

Suzanne
3-16-11, 12:40am
It looks as if Canada is really getting worried about sugar intake! http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Check+those+labels+What+find+might+surprise/4411543/story.html

If kids are getting 34 teaspoons of sugar/day, that is way too much; there are 48 teaspoons to a cupful, so this is getting toward 3/4 cup of sugar/day - and the calories are the least part of the trouble.

Of course, there'll be screams of Nanny State! Socialist! Communist!! as soon as federal intervention is requested, but fortunately we all have the power of the intellect and the power of the purse; as soon as consumers, in droves, shun the sugar-heavy products, the manufacturers will miraculously discover a way to deliver what the market wants!

Of course, the big problem comes in with: how to brand a product that is essentially a basic food? It's easy to brand Marie Callender's apple pie - but Marie's apples will look a lot like Sara's apples and a lot like Wolfgang Puck's apples...and to cap this, the farmer gets about 12 cents out of every food dollar. I've read that a $3 box of cereal probably contains only a few cents worth of food. http://www.wellsphere.com/healthy-cooking-article/the-big-bad-industrial-food-system/1110929

babr
3-16-11, 8:33am
You go Mrs. M; I can't do the challenge except to maybe up my big kid a notchcow-hi
Suzanne i wish i had the eyes to read all the information you and Jane provide; i noticed i have a 5 pound bag of sugar; i don't cook with it except when i make dough for pizza and thats only a tablespoon; maybe less; anyway its interesting to see how much of that sugar has been used for my 8 teaspoons of sugar a day; when i am in or on the boat

i did look at the heirloom food in Michigan; so many of the varieties are extinct; i can't believe that! animals extinct;good food extinct! but they just had a meeting about local gardening plots; organic gardening around our area; dh is into organic foods and buys me apples; i have been eating these with protein; only one apple a day and bananas; just one

but last night after we went grocery shopping i had to eat my whole grains; millet and then hit the ground running up stairs to the bedroom to get away from the kitchen; when we were in the grocery store going by the frozen foods; ice cream; i had to keep breathing and keep trying to keep my eyes forward and moving as fast as i can out of there!

helllo my name is Kris and i am a sugar addict!

but this is day two where i am back to my healthy eating; going to get my exercise in walking/taking the bus to do errands; can't drive anymore do to my m.s. but it has been great because now i can do my errands while on the bus/walking; what i can carry at least

today i am off to get fabric so dh and i can make some curtains to block out the afternoon sun in the summer; dh and i worked on curtains to our patio window; quite proud of my sweetheart; we have been through alot; and are still going through alot with my body problems progressing and his job getting more and more stressful in these tough economic times; so we are finding ways to save money so he can at least retire part time; we don't count on social security being there for us;

but i am digressing;

you guys are:+1:

i love these little things; the smiley stuff; i think they are great; i don't know how to do pictures and all that; i can barely work my trac phone

take care and will check in later

babr
3-16-11, 8:36am
oh Mrs. M you are from Canada; we love Canada; go there to camp; look for wildlife etc.; we can get to Ontario in about 5 hours; i may claim political asylum there if things get any worse here

Mrs-M
3-16-11, 1:16pm
Good morning Suzanne and Babr! Nice to hear from you. Great links and info Suzanne! I love weeding my way through it all. So much in the way of new. In reading through all the interesting and informative articles and posts on this thread it's easy to see where people have slowly gone wrong (in the area of sugar). Too much packaged and already made goods. I have a neighbour who does a great job feeding her family, but absolutely everything she makes and prepares is from a package. I imagine it would all start to taste the same after a while.

Babr. I say that big kid in you needs a good old-fashioned proper spanking! :laff: Maybe that'll chase him away! :)

Here's how I feel when running on sugar. http://planetsmilies.net/tired-sleeping-smiley-4642.gif http://planetsmilies.net/tired-sleeping-smiley-4633.gif http://planetsmilies.net/tired-sleeping-smiley-4636.gif http://www.boardoo.com/free-smilies/smilies/boardoo-sleeping-smiley-2795.gif

But here's how I feel when I'm not. http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/fingerdance.gif http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/yahoo.gif http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/thanks.gif http://th358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/pigletmph/th_zrunningamok.gif

Mrs-M
3-17-11, 2:01pm
Babr. One thing I'd like to mention (be it as negative as it may sound) even though I'm not intending for it to come across that way is, you have to want to welcome and accept change in order to make change happen/work. In other words, without your deep down desire to "want to do it", it will not happen regardless of how much support you have. Change starts with you. :)

Mrs-M
3-17-11, 3:21pm
I get a little derelict in posting things (on this thread) as to my trials and tribulations in the sugar department, but I'm on such a role lately I don't have anything new to mention. I'm just rolling with it and so far I've had no setbacks. I hope all you guys can say the same and until we talk again, sending well wishes along with a sprinkling of success everyone's way!

Suzanne
3-17-11, 6:28pm
I know we're talking sugar, but to me that includes simple carbs of all origins! Here's Gary Taubes: http://hive.slate.com/hive/time-to-trim/article/its-not-about-the-calories with his take on why Michele Obama's Let's Move! campaign is unlikely to succeed in slimming down the USA's overweight children.

Not doing too badly myself since the lemon curd incident!

Mrs-M
3-17-11, 8:17pm
Hi Suzanne! You are a saviour! I'm gearing up for this evening to sit down and catch up a little reading on the forum (links, etc) with trusty cup of piping hot tea in possession (of course), and I'll be checking out this link while I'm at it. Thanks!

About the lemon curd, you needed it! :) Spoilage is good once in a while.

babr
3-18-11, 9:21am
I hear you Mrs. M; but i have been a task master all my life and want to first love myself or just say i am okay instead of i am not!

Again another tough night; its the nights; and i keep forgetting the food log; i get so caught up in the days events; geeze; didn't realize i haven't stopped for breakfast; so will go and do that; then i can start my first food log entry and maybe some thoughts when i am white knuckling it; so writing down food eaten and some narrative

have to get to some of the articles; there is so much info. and great stuff!

will try to check back in later

oh thanks mrs. m for the different characters; made my day!

Mrs-M
3-18-11, 10:43am
Good morning Babr. Well, my turn today to report a stumble off the wagon. DH arrived home with a bag of fresh butterhorns from the bakery after work yesterday and by 10 o'clock last night not only was I into them (ate one), I also had a soda with it too! (All Gregg44's fault)! He mentioned drinking soda "every morning" (in my coffee poll thread) and that did it for me. For the remainder of the day I could not get soda off my mind.

Glad you liked my smilie collection. :) No matter what kind of mood I'm in they never fail to cheer me up!

babr
3-19-11, 9:13am
had a difficult evening; grouchy which is usually the case when i am struggling with the sweets issue; dh; sweet dh took me for a stroll with the wheelchair; i have difficulty walking slowly;standing; i walk fast which still causes pain due to the m.s. but i have to have physical activity outside; i didn't want to go outside last night but dh talked me into it and it helped to some degree

he will be taking me to my lesson; i am learning natural horsemanship; i love animals; can't have them at home due to; god i hate this word allergies; and don't want to volunteer at the shelters as i couldn't bear to see the animals in such a stressed state; i am a sensitive soul; but i learned about this therapeutic riding stable which usually works with people/kids with develpmental disabilities; but they also take adults with issues; mine being M.S.; so i am learning how to bond with a horse; like the horse whisperer:) this is just my second lesson; there is so much to learn and the person who heads the program was so excited to have someone who wanted to learn the natural horsemanship that she got involved in my first lesson and flooded my brain so i had difficulty following her; plus when i got on the horse my legs weren't strong enough to help the horse to know when i wanted to go and when i wanted to stop; anyway i think it will be her assistant and i have to be more assertive and tell them slow down; one person; one thing at a time!; i try to be nice and compliant; the good person etc. one of my many issues which i am working on

well back to the sweets issue; i only had a bit of spinich and a pear peeled but one they don't recommend which then i think plugged up my sinuses so i had to get up very early this a.m. and also had swollen lips; i don't need to have collegen injected into my lips just eat something my body doesn't like; so then i got mad at this crazy body and had coffee with artificial sweetener:(

will try to stay on track despite the coffee part;

mrs. m i hear you with the soda thing; dh and i have what is called thirsty thursdays where we go out and get a drink and i had whiskey and diet coke; both no nos unless its the high end whiskey; meaning price wise

yes i love those smilies too i need to find that free site where you could get smilies

see ya later

happy spring!

Suzanne
3-19-11, 10:47am
Another interesting sign that the river of mainstream media may be changing course and taking note of the findings about fat and simple carbs, especially sugars: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbs-against-cardio

Mrs-M
3-19-11, 11:17am
Hi Babr. The natural horsemanship course sounds like fun. Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far. Sorry to hear about your allergies. You're "thirsty Thursday's" sounds like good medicine! (Maybe that's what I'm lacking lately is a little good old-fashioned medicine)! :laff: Problem is I'm not a drinker. I can tolerate wine (small amounts) and beer mixed with tomato juice (one beer), but that's it. If I have a beer I get all giddy and spinny! http://th149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/Smileys/th_drunk.gif and then http://th177.photobucket.com/albums/w206/gjcab09/smileys/th_blurry-drunk.gif

Mrs-M
3-19-11, 11:22am
Good morning Suzanne. (Rubbing hands together over link)! :) Thanks! I awoke this morning thinking- "gee, it sure would be great if a link or two popped up on the forum today so I had something to peruse tonight" and what-do-ya know, a link! Will touch base with you again in the morning Suzanne (or whenever you have a chance to stop by). Have a great Saturday night!

leslieann
3-19-11, 2:16pm
Mrs. M. Did you REALLY say beer mixed with tomato juice?

Mrs-M
3-19-11, 2:24pm
I did Leslieann. :) My husband (summer months) often has a beer cut with tomato juice. It has a fizzy bite, smoothes out the beer taste (which I don't like), and is thirst quenching! I may have 2-3 beer with him like that over the course of the summer.

babr
3-19-11, 4:31pm
Mrs. m you are too funny; i had a chance to ride and use some of the behavioral practices of natural horsemanship but the horse wasn't wanting to participate and the volunteers were spring feverish too; but i still got to ride; then promptly came home and finished a box of candy that i have had for a long time; but did it out of anger; i can't seem to get stable with this diet; i follow it and i wake up like i went off of it; dh worries about my vitamins but i can't get beyond the basic food; maybe it was the spinich which has salicylate in it; but i have to have my veggies; and white potatoes peeled in my book isn't nutrition. thanks for letting me vent.

Suzanne
3-19-11, 9:55pm
Hiya Babr, I envy you with the horsemanship! I love horses, and miss riding. Haven't had a leg over a horse for thirteen years...there's something about the way a horse finally accepts you, drops his huge head against your chest, and snorts that's peculiarly comforting.

I understand the eating out of anger, very well indeed. Did the same thing myself today, with a chocolate-dipped biscotto; now why won't a piece of cheese or a carrot do the trick??? Could it be the opioid effects of sugar? The only reason I only ate one biscotto is because there was only one. I'm seriously considering the peanut butter right now...and I suspect there may be an ancient box of cookies in the laundry...so I'M NOT GOING IN THERE!

Suzanne
3-19-11, 10:06pm
Ooopppss! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367842/Dieting-make-irritable-angry-claim-researchers.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Rosemary
3-19-11, 10:15pm
Ha! Suzanne, what a funny article. It certainly makes me irritable when I make a big dietary change.

Terri
3-20-11, 4:46am
Hi girls! I've slipped a lot and can make lots of excuses (2 jobs and just got notice that I need to move cities by the end of the month and hosting two friends from Canada). But really that doesn't help. I will be continuing to strive for moderation while my friends are here (1 more week) and then get back to the "no added sugar" challenge once they leave. I'm finding it REALLY hard to do this right now and need to cut myself a bit of a break.

Mrs-M
3-20-11, 1:57pm
Just on the cusp of a good morning to all. Sunday breakfast, cleanup, a little preparation for tonight's dinner, can't believe it's almost noon already!

I never eat (anything) out of anger, stress, etc. Eating for me is the result of hunger or craving, nothing else. After having my fall the other day (off the wagon) I've been good in the department of contentment. No desire to have sugar since.

I was thinking about the relationship between all habits (good or bad), and like all things, some people will have the natural will and strength to overcome their cravings and desires where as other will battle it. I battled quitting smoking. Everything triggered me to want a cigarette. i.e. Morning coffee, seeing someone else smoking, smelling someone else's cigarette, and so on. Thank goodness sugar doesn't have the same effect on me.

Looks like we all took a bit of a tumble this past week but we have a new week ahead of us and with that said, all the best to everyone! Tomorrow is a new day and the start of a new week! Have a great Sunday everybody.

Thanks for the link Suzanne.

Mrs-M
3-22-11, 9:49am
Just wanted to drop by to wish everyone a good morning and to see if all is going well. :) Thinking about all of you.

babr
3-22-11, 3:51pm
boy did i ever fall over the weekend; first the box of candy; then some old oreos:|(
and finished by eating a whole box of sweetened cereal

my relationship with sugar is complex; its funny but i am fine until it gets later in the day and then by the time dh comes home; there is a raving maniac or a sobbing one.

i am back on the boat; and of course going back to the sugar withdrawl; last night was horrible; i just felt emotionally miserable

i was trying to remember that i have alot on my plate with all these medical problems; dietary allergies and now i want to cut way down on the sugar; i think a part of me thinks logically that this is a good idea; why be a slave to an inanimate object; choose food over friendship, activities etc.; but another that says you know you really are putting too much pressure on yourself; try to be kind; when the tough person wants to crack the whip; the other part of me wants to just tell the first part where to go and then go get that bag of donuts

i guess i will take a more moderate approach; cut back but not go crazy; try to do some limiting and see how it feels

i will say that having stayed on the artificial free diet yesterday i was able to sleep through the night without sinus problems and that was nice

that is good mrs. m that it is hunger vs. a psychological thing; and i think what i am going through is probably similar to your quitting smoking; i used to help pregnant clients try to cut back; and iit was very hard for them and i thought it wouldd be the same for me with sweets

I agree with you Terri on giving ourselves some slack; and its really difficult when you have the stress you are describing; sorry to hear about the job situation; wow to have to move to another city by the end of the month? thinking of you

sounds like you rode earlier in your life suzanne?; they are truly fasinating creatures; i have been telling my husband who grew up with horses why his horses acted the way they did; he rode though had no knowledge of horses per se. i am getting some books and hopefully dh will help me read them; and maybe you could look into that for yourself if possible; and the article really hit the nail on the head

and i wish i did not clean the cupboard out but its done; no sugar other than dh's cereal......but i will try to stay away from it

yeah dh has real will power; he feels better when he doesn't eat; he has irritable bowel syndrome

did someone mention early on about some chocolate that was part bittersweet; maybe i could look into that for myself

anyway its nearly 4 p.m. and the evil twin has not come out of the closet yet...

everyone have a good evening

babr
3-22-11, 3:52pm
geeze i really write long notes; must be long winded lol

babr
3-23-11, 2:28pm
well it is day three of the low sugar challenge and so far i am still in the boat

i was thinking about motivations for doing this and for me i think they are

less money
better health
not having food rule my world
not putting money in the store or the manufacturers greedy hands

las night was tense; tried another cup of nescafe but found that the sugarless gum that i was chewing; have to chew gum as my meds. dry up my saliva; anyway it made the drink taste flat; but was not or tired not to be cranky and just observed my behavior; if i was starting down the road of sweetland i would try to breathe until it passed; so so far so good

and hey if i do eat something sweet i can still count the days that i didn't which i think is positive

wish me luck for tonight

Mrs-M
3-23-11, 3:29pm
Hi Babr. Congrats on your extended boat ride! :) Keep up the good work. (You don't write long posts at all). I very much enjoy reading your posts- short or long as they be, so write away! That's what it's all about, being yourself.

I'm on course and coasting comfortably right now with no obstacles in sight. P.S. By the way, I wish you and everyone here "good luck" and "strength" all the time. Just wanted you to know that! :)

Today I'm staying busy with cooking and doing a little housework, so that helps me a lot to forget about any sort of sugary treats and things I may get my mind on.

Can't wait to talk with you and everybody again!

Glo
3-23-11, 5:53pm
I'm down 22 pounds since January 17th. Its been very easy through weigh****chers on line. I'm very pleased!

babr
3-24-11, 9:02am
thanks for you kind words Mrs. M and congratulations on your coasting; i want to say i hope to be in that place but will try to be more reasonable; and thanks for the encouragement as i round day 4; i just have the worse time at night ; i guess thats when i need to post when i am really struggling

And Glo congratultions to you; 22 pounds thats greeat! I have heard that weight watchers has helped alot of people and I hope you can continue if that is your goal or remain at your current weight

I think Mrs. M you remind me that I once was at the cruising point awhile ago before i went on vacation and then went off the wagon; i think its getting to the point where if its possible; you can say that things like sweets or overeating aren't are your number #1 list of priorities

Last night I had several frustrating experiences and thats when i am at my weakest; tried to just breathe and made it but it was such a struggle and again i was in no mood to spend time with dh; luckily he has space he can call his own to go to

will see how today and tonight go

take care

Suzanne
3-24-11, 9:29am
Well done, Glo!

Congratulations, Babr! Looks like you're beginning to lift over the bumps now and should be coasting soon.

babr
3-25-11, 9:44am
thanks suzanne; i am at day 5; i may take the weekend and at least have coffee with creme; so i don't feeel that i am totally depriving myself; going to try some evening activities and see how that feels; normally i am at home curled up and hanging onto the bed so i don't run down and rummage through the cupboard looking for anything sweet lol; maybe this will help my evening difficulties

will let you know later; i know i post alot; but this helps me; have a good weekend everyone and lets try to be kind to ourselves and praise ourselves for anything we do towards our health; can you tell i am very much into being kind and gentle; as oppposed to tough! as i said i grew up with "just pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and it got me no where; but what ever works for you great; just don't beat yourself up too badly; as they say even if you stray as we all have; there is always tommorow to start fresh

earthshepherd
3-25-11, 10:52am
I am on week #3 with no sugar or refined flours. I feel much better, but am not losing weight. Harder as you get older.

Suzanne
3-25-11, 12:24pm
Well, well - perhaps the tide is really beginning to turn! http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20110324/added-sugar-may-add-to-weight-gain-in-us

Note, of course the sugar/processed food industry immediately starts screaming foul "just one study proves nothing!" while cleverly obfuscating the hard fact that this is one more study linking sugar and the rise in heart disease/obesity/diabetes.

Suzanne
3-25-11, 12:27pm
Hi Earthshepherd, yeah, it takes longer for weight to start dropping as we get older, especially for women whose hormones are changing. I put on 20 lb in 2 months when I started taking microdoses of estradiol for chronic migraine, and 18 months later I've finally dropped 10 of them. At this point, though, I'd rather wear bigger jeans than return to the skullsplitters I had when I was at ideal weight!

Suzanne
3-25-11, 12:50pm
Babr, you are so on the right track with kindness and gentleness! None of us would treat an animal the way we treat ourselves - yet we forget that our bodies are animals, and they respond much better to kindness, understanding, and humour than they do to derision, hatespeak, and smacks upside the head. I made my first real breakthrough in chronic migraine the day I said Yes to the pain. It was an incredibly powerful moment; accepting my body, accepting migraine as part of that body, not as an enemy to be nuked, accepting that I am not a failure for not being able to use psychology to over-ride biology. I cried, but they were healing tears as I forgave myself for being a migraineur, for nearly an hour, and from that day I set out to learn what I could do to help my poor faulty body to live the best, gentlest, life it can.

Mrs-M
3-25-11, 1:34pm
Originally posted by Babr.
I think Mrs. M you remind me that I once was at the cruising point awhile ago before i went on vacation and then went off the wagon; i think its getting to the point where if its possible; you can say that things like sweets or overeating aren't are your number #1 list of prioritiesDefinitely so, but I've had to work hard at it (really hard at it). Keep on truckin girl. :)

Earthshepherd and Glo, great work.

Suzanne. Thanks for the link. I never tire of you entries. You have such knowledge. Nothing like having an "in-house" specialist in this field. You are a true guru Suzanne and I appreciate it so much!

babr
3-26-11, 8:20am
I hear you earthshepard regarding the weight loss; i turned 50 this year and even though i was exercising in some fashion every day with even diet changes i kept putting the pounds on; its such a challenge

i kep hearing about the golden years or used to hear about them; well if i am getting to that point where is the golden part; not to whine; but when your body begins breaking down as it is a natural reaction; its a real challenge

wow suzanne you blew me away with your comment on saying yes to pain; i have never heard it in that fashion; i have had such anger over all the work i did trying to take care of my body and mind only to have a disease and its relatives actively eating away at my body and mind functions

i want to say that my body carried me for 40 years; and now i have to carry it; but its a struggle; i admire your take on it and will ponder your insight; and its so great that you were able to make the break through!

I have successfully completed five days of low sweets; today gave myself a break and am drinking caffeine with creamer but keeping the sweetened creamer not too sweet; hopefully that will work

last night i was sweating it out but forced myself to go to a poetry reading and armed with a piece of sugar free gum; i avoided the free food and just basked in the international poetry; it was really cool; the students from the university read poems from authors across the world; chinese,albanian,serbian,french,spanish, italian, old english,broad scots, german etc.

so though they didn't have enough money to copy the english versions you just basked in the international languages; i just closed my eyes and since i am so fascinated with other cultures; i imagined myself being in the country they spoke of; having a coffee and listening to the poems;

it was so much better than running to bed with a book on tape; but i have to push myself as i am not a real night person; but maybe i will get to like it

suzanne i will have to read the article and comment

but will rest my eyes for now

take care and enjoy your day if possible

babr
3-28-11, 11:22am
not sure what face to post; blush/sad or the oh well; this weekend and now today has become sweetened with multiple foods; i guess part of me is sad; it truly is such a struggle; and i awoke in the middle of the night with half of my sinuses blocked; what a true addiction this is; i can't imagine if it were alcohol; my mom was an alcoholic and i could see why; she had been born and bred in the city and then married this conservative man and moved to the other end of the state in a very small town with three kids 6,4, and 2. and she was always alternative; i tell her now why i think she drank; i would have had to have done the same thing; she wasn't born to be a mom and one to stay at home; now she sits in wheelchair or bed and eats all day; a good portion being sweets; and i can see why as well;

everyone says how great it would be to be at home; but this isn't my choice; i never imagined my life to be like this; and i can't volunteer due to my multiple health problems; i am not asking people to solve this for me; just venting and i guess i need to lean on my compassionate nature; use that as i would if someone i cared for was going through a rough time; i will give myself lots of tlc today

Mrs-M
3-28-11, 12:43pm
I don't know what to say Babr, but one thing that really helped me take a second look at sugar was seeing people who lost a leg to diabetes, or those who developed pancreatic cancer (terminal cancer) as result of being diabetic. Sugar in a lot of ways "is a killer", allow it run rampant and unchecked/unguided, and it will catch up with you. (It will).

I spoiled myself yesterday (in compliance with nosdiet) having two pastry treats. Now I'll be good for a while, probably a long while. As the old saying goes- "everything in moderation", and I try extra hard to live by that adage. Sometimes I find elementary reasoning to be the best teacher of all. What I mean by that is, I'll ask myself- "will these cream puffs provide me with the nutrition and dietary needs I require to stay healthy"? "What are they doing to my body"?

Bottom line Babr, "you are what you eat". You can choose to run with that and seek change, or you can simple keep on the same path you are presently on and keep making up excuse after excuse as to why you need all the sugar, but when the cookies crumble and you are faced with the prospect of having to change your entire dietary habits as a result of medical consequence/intervention i.e. diabetes, maybe then you will realize the importance of balance. I refuse to sugar-coat the realities of this topic or the dire consequences that can result over the unrestrained intake of a high sugar diet.

Suzanne
3-28-11, 3:13pm
It certainly is hard to live with a sugar/alcohol/drug sensitivity. There's sound biological reason for this, of course - some foods have sedative/opioid properties! Carbing out, for me, brings on a state of mingled almost euphoria and almost inertia. It looks as if you see that your mother was in a place where she was in a poor fit, and the same is true of you - you don't like being at home all the time, and it really irks you that your physical limitations are keeping you there. This is actually good news, because once you see the shape of the problem, it becomes easier to clearly formulate what it is you need to do, in the way that is best for you!

This is where saying Yes becomes important. It's not an immediate or easy fix for the problem, but it does centre you into yourself. There's nothing selfish about this: a dancer, for instance, has to be centred in herself if she's to interpret the piece. I realise that what I'm saying goes totally counter to mainstream thought and especially mainstream medicine. While I was in the chronic pain clinic, my psychologist put everything into military/sport terms: fight, nuke, enemy, vicious, attack, strategy, firepower, victory. Probably he meant well, but it didn't work for me! Every time I opened my eyes to another headache, I was slammed with thoughts of failure, fear of confessing, shame, guilt, self-hatred for having brought this onto myself, and the whole satanic family. The harder I tried to rewire my brain - according to his parameters - the more headaches I had and the worse I felt about myself. Yet, at the same time, this man was teaching us about the biological underpinnings of migraine - and is not himself a migraineur. I worked my tail end off at biofeedback training, breath training, food diary, pain diary - and worked just as hard at denying my inner knowledge that I was on the wrong road. Now, don't get me wrong: all of these are very valuable tools, but I was using them in an attempt to destroy something inside myself instead of using them to build myself, as a whole, up. I was thoroughly locked into the western paradigm of separating body from spirit, with the inbuilt need to subjugate and punish the body, which I saw as inferior to the spirit. Saying "yes" essentially brought me back into my body, and I could see it as very much part of me; those flawed genes that make me a chronic migraineur are as much part of me as the genes that give me good language skills.

One of the best things I did around this time was to read Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's book on death and dying. The whole cycle of denial, rage, grief, bargaining, is the same whether we're facing the death of a loved one or what we perceive as the death of part of ourselves, or indeed the living sacrifice of, say, sugar. I cried with rage when I realised how many foods are permanently out of bounds for me, even though I truly want to bring down my pain to a level where I can thrive! Even now I have spasms of violent rebellion against my dietary restrictions, and yes, I fall off the wagon and sometimes I have to hire a cab to get me back to it. These lapses are despite my full knowledge of what the damage they will wreak and the time it will take to recover.

So, I'm really thinking aloud at this point. The process becomes easier as priorities shift - from surviving a situation in which it seems impossible to bloom into creating a microclimate where thriving is possible. I was struck by an earlier post of yours where you said that for 40 years your body carried you, and now you have to carry it. Forgive me, Babr, but I think this is a negative idea that will only hurt you if you continue to harbour it. We're coming back, you see, to separation of the inferior body from the superior mind despite our being organic wholes. It's well-known medically that emotions can indeed arise in the body, not the brain, and we can use this knowledge to change our thoughts and emotions. It's just as true that our thoughts affect our bodies. If you see your body as a hindrance and a failure, essentially a prison-with-daily-torture, you are trapped.

Do you see your situation as wrong because you're having to look after yourself instead of others? Why are you worth less than anybody else? You may now be suffering because you were so busy putting on everybody else's oxygen masks for them when the plane depressurised that you never got around to putting on your own! It's called "caregiver snap." These are things that help for me: to rest before I'm tired; to say plainly that I can't take on the job/responsibility; to actively seek help before I hit the wall; to eat before I'm hungry.

I've written you - and myself - a whole huge sermon here! Feel free to ignore whatever isn't helpful!

JaneV2.0
3-29-11, 1:02am
"It's well-known medically that emotions can indeed arise in the body, not the brain..."
Neuropeptides: "molecules of emotion," co-discovered by Candace Pert. Good stuff.

babr
3-29-11, 8:48am
I don't know what to say; well first let me start out by sharing that yesterday i got a call telling me that i needed to have a cat scan on my kidneys; i have to catheterize nightly due to my m.s. and they have me get an ultrasound every year on my kidneys; which always appears to be a fatty tissue; and they woman that did the ultra sound this year; she was so young; she couldn't find one of my kidneys! i had to stand up while she scoped for it; now i have to go for a cat scan; and they will see that it is nothing; i know i appreciate that they are erring on the side of caution; but i spend half my life in medical world; and these things cost big bucks which affects my health care

i guess i am saying this is my life; i have been through alot in my life; sexual abuse; alot of trauma throughout my life; knowing i had something wrong with my body and being told by 13 neurologists that it was either in my head or i was stressed; this happens so much with females; the old hysteria crap; this went on for ten years and it began affecting my husband and he started to believe them and it almost ruined our marriage

maybe what i am trying to say is cut me some slack; when i started this group it was for support purposes; i was a social worker for many years and ran groups; i believe support works much better than tough love; at least in this situation

maybe i was wrong for starting this; maybe this isn't the right time for me; i already have a restricted diet; i guess i don't know what else to say; except that today i will be compassionate to myself; hold myself in loving arms; i have worked all my life on my issues; and my therapist says you know you don't have to work anymore; why not take a break; not go crazy but be kind to yourself

will end on that note; and ponder

take care

Suzanne
3-29-11, 10:18am
Babr, I'm sorry if my post hurt you. I really do empathise with you. I too am a survivor of sexual and physical abuse, as well as of severe emotional battery. I too went the rounds of doctors who did the hysteria thing; one said that once I had a child, my tight cervix would be stretched and I'd never have another migraine! Well, I had two children, and the headaches got worse. I've been called hypochondriac as well, despite the obvious evidence that something was badly wrong somewhere; emergency surgeries, zero thyroid function, and chronic anaemia should be a hint, you'd think, that I wasn't imagining stuff to make myself look important or as a form of escapism. Like you, I live with chronic pain; indeed, none of the experts can be sure whether I have chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia, or both! Like you, I've been working on my issues in therapy for what seems like forever - it's only a month ago that I was officially declared to be out of chronic major depression. And, again like you, I have a restricted diet. My health problems are with me for life -there's no cure for any of this, and I will always have some degree of pain and disability. Right now, I'm having a surge of exhaustion and muscular/bone pain, and I spent the first three days of spring break in bed with a screaming migraine. Did my latest indulgences have something to do with it? Very likely. I ate half a Russian teacake, made with walnuts, which I realised only when I'd already taken two large bits. Walnuts are poison to me - but I didn't stop right there! I decided that such a small amount couldn't hurt me...

I also understand the powerful need for self-protection.

Be kind to yourself, for sure. I think Mrs. M is trying to point out that sometimes kindness turns out to be cruelty, when it takes the form of more of the stuff that's hurting you.

babr
3-30-11, 9:15am
:thankyou:Suzanne your post really helped; i appreciate you sharing what you are also going through; and knowing i am not alone in having complex medical issues; i know it was a heart felt response; and i felt your compassion;

i think each one of us has areas that are really challenges in our lives;it may be exercise, it may be eating healthy, it may be in our relationships; but i know each one of has things they truly struggle with

i think mrs. m that you were making assumptions on my high sugar intake; the amount of sugar i put in my body is low by far compared with most people; do you drink coffee? that too can have its problems; I am not consuming sugar to the degree that would result in diabetes; again i think we come at it from different angles; i think tough love is good in other situations such as with children; but it doesn't work for me here; again; i grew up with that and maybe thats why i am reacting the way that i am; it didn't work for me then; in fact it was traumatic; and it doesn't work for "me" now; that doesn't mean you can't take that approach for yourself and others may agree with you

i think its a very individual situation and requires individual approaches; mine is about loving yourself; well actually learning to like yourself no matter what you might need to work on; i think of a meditation comment; each one of us is special; we just need a bit of improvement

but i am in a better frame of mine today; i think we can agree to disagree

i am looking at sugar reduction; it may be one day at a time; i think each day that i eat a bit less sugar is a great day!

I was really annoyed about having to spend 90 minutes in the radiology department and then having to wait an hour for the bus; which drops me off a mile from my home; and thats good exercise; but my husband also has to take time out of his demanding job to drive me to the appt.

i appreciate they are erring on the side of caution; but as i said; it really affects my health insurance; if they find that it was nothing i will bring up the fact that the young technician couldn't even find my left kidney and got to the point where i had to stand up; thats never been a problem; so i wonder about her abilities to do the ultrasound

and last night i had 15 jelly beans; ate them slowly; not doing anything else; just focusing on the flavor; etc.; eating mindfully; and then i put the rest away; and congratulated myself for my moderation

well i better close as my eye pain is kicking in

take care everyone

Suzanne
4-14-11, 8:22am
A long read, but very well worthwhile. Gary Taubes is a thorough, conscientious researcher, and is to be taken seriously whether writing about sugar or saturated fat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Mrs-M
4-14-11, 4:54pm
Ahhh, thanks Suzanne. This will be my evening project tonight with a piping hot cup of tea in my company.

Lainey
4-14-11, 9:46pm
A long read, but very well worthwhile. Gary Taubes is a thorough, conscientious researcher, and is to be taken seriously whether writing about sugar or saturated fat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Thanks for posting, Suzanne - very interesting.

lhamo
4-16-11, 9:12pm
Jumping in a bit late here, but I think I need to join this conversation.

I have struggled with blood sugar issues my whole life. My mom was severly hypoglycemic when pregnant with me (to the point of having hallucinations and night terrors, which is pretty dramatic and pretty rare), and though I have never been formally tested I have had all the classic symptoms most of my life. I know how bad sugar and refined carbs are for me, but it is so hard to break free of the addiction. Gary Taubes article is a wake-up call for me, though -- I probably am poisoning myself. So, going to start making a serious effort to cut back significantly on sugar and refined carbs. Step 1, just posted a thread asking for low Glycemic index/glycemic load recipes on the food and recipe thread. Step 2, drinking my second cup of coffee WITHOUT ANY SUGAR -- that is actually a big step for me and you know what, it tastes pretty good! Step 3 will be to stop drinking prepackaged instant coffee mixes at work. I think I will take my spare coffee pot to the office, or I might just switch to drinking green tea, which is better for me anyway. I usually manage to get a cup of coffee down before I leave for the bus, so probably don't need a second cup at work anyway, though I do enjoy it.

I have been thinking about starting a blog for awhile and may use this as the starting point, as much to track my progress and results as anything else. I'll post a link if/when I get started with that.

Appreciate all the support and inspiration that everyone has offered here already.

lhamo

Rosemary
4-16-11, 9:20pm
I've been conscious of sugar intake, and though I generally consume far less than the average American, it's going way down starting next week - sugar, honey, maple syrup are all off our allergy elimination diet. Brown rice syrup is allowed but I think I'll see how far I can get with nothing. Yikes.

babr
4-20-11, 8:10am
throwing in my support for those of you attempting to cut back; i was just not ready due to having denied myself so many things in life; and more medical problems and medical tests which is higher stress....but won't go into a long story

good luck; i will try to follow your path; but be kind to yourself; i feel we don't address the psychological issues behind such things as large amounts of sugar intakes

take care

JaneV2.0
4-20-11, 11:01am
I really think it's physiological. Carbohydrates--especially refined ones--raise insulin. Insulin release causes hunger. If you're lucky enough :( to have a hair-trigger pancreas, it becomes a never-ending vicious cycle. During my (way too long) vegetarian phase, I was hungry all the time. When I eat (much) lower carb, hunger isn't an issue for me.

Mrs-M
4-20-11, 12:02pm
Good morning everybody.

Ihamo. Drinking a cup of coffee without sugar is my dream! What a milestone victory that is. Way to go! I've reached a comfort zone related to digesting my coffee and tea with sweetener. On the old boards Violeta (old member) started a sugar-free challenge thread and through strong determination I was able to cut back on the amount of sugar I was using (per cup of coffee) by 2/3's. Today I use only honey to sweeten, however I still can't move past a completely sweet-free cup of...

Rosemary. Wishing you much success on your new venture! It sounds interesting and it would be great to hear from you as you progress through it. (Fingers crossed for you)!

Babr. Ready or not, I say work at it at your own comfortable pace. A little today, a little more tomorrow, and so on. "Every little bit helps" is my adage.

JaneV2.0. Carbs are a major blow to me (diet wise). I love everything high carb, pasta being at the top of the list, but slowly I'm eliminating white pasta from my diet, and, I'm adding other things into my diet to help off-set my hunger for carb-rich foods. It's a slow process but I've attached no set time-frame to this challenge. Every day is a new day!

babr
4-26-11, 3:52pm
this is true mrs. m; during the week; i have nescafe which my body will tolerate with 2 and 1/2 teaspoons of sugar; and i have just two cups a day; on the weekends i splurge and have regular coffee with the fake creamer;

Jane i think its both; i find that i am so much more depressed and irritable when i cut out the sugar; i think everyone has a comfort food; dh's is mexican; and even though he eats really healthy and doesn't have an ounce of fat on him; he treats himself to mexican on the weekends

i have been eating jelly beans to try to keep from eating the really fatty sweets; and have been able to maintain my weight and not binge on sugar; i do watch my jelly beans as well as they add up in calories

i think my primary concern is maintaining my weight; eating primarily salycilate free on the week days and nutritiously; watching my fat and calories; and also making sure i don't go too crazy on the sugar; which so far i have done well

i can't have any carbohydrates unless you count whole grains; millet; but i eat fruits and vegetables and lean protein; maybe jelly beans is a carbohydrate; (smiling)

Suzanne
4-27-11, 9:00am
There's hope yet: with more media coverage saying in so many words that sugars and refined starches are Not Good For You!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/health-nutrition/leslie-beck/cut-sugar-to-lower-triglycerides/article1999190/

Of course there's still the Avoid Saturated Fats!! line. I have to charge out of here and get to school, but I have a couple of ideas to discuss.

babr
4-27-11, 9:28am
funny how this thread continues; makes me smile; as it is an issue for many of us and Jane and Suzanne always jump in with good info.

i am going to have to get off the jelly beans; woke up with swollen lips big time; means my body has had enough; so am going to
go to my favorite sweet shopppe and order a small box of chocolates; they are very good but expensive; because of the cost and the fact that one or two is so satisfying i can make my box last a long time; i can eat this candy as they use ingredients that my salicylate body allows for butter, cocoa, sugar etc.; i know this isn't reducing my sweets but again my goal is to not overindulge but not feel that i am depriving myself; when my body limits me in so many other ways

and i know we will disagree on this; but i do not feel that i am eating just sugar all day long; as i had said earlier its yogurt,two pieces of fruit, a small portion of turkey, and my whole grains which is millet; i try to hit all 4 food groups along with the fifth which is sweets (smiling) but again portion control; will keep you posted as this thread seems to be continuing

kib
4-27-11, 10:37am
Well, chiming in very very late here. I hope everyone is coping this morning. :)

Has anyone tried really really cutting all carbs - which includes sugar and processed flour, but also potatoes and corn and fruit and whole grains and and granola and brown rice and beans and quinoa and other stuff, even the stuff we think of as healthy - just for a few days? It's said that if you can get past that three day hump, your cravings for sugar diminish significantly. I know that this is what happened for me, and it was really helpful; I likened it to getting past the physical dependence of a drug addiction. It's not that I don't enjoy sweets anymore or never indulge myself, and I have definitely reintroduced limited amounts of whole-food carbs back into my diet, but the physical cycle of needing the concentrated carbs of sugar and flour every few hours - or at least having the urgent sense of needing them - was broken by this "carb fast". This made it a lot easier to limit my intake of sugar going forward.

Going cold turkey on carbs forever is a dreary prospect. But why not give the "one week carb fast" a try - or even just three or five days if the idea of a week seems unbearably long. Breaking the craving cycle goes a long way toward being able to eat a diet low in processed carbs and sugar and actually Like it.

ETA: I just wanted to clarify that I'm not suggesting if you go without carbs for three days you will suddenly decide that a life of steak and salad is ideal and shun all starches forever more. It just seems that cutting out virtually all carbs temporarily can break the craving cycle for concentrated sugars.

Mrs-M
4-27-11, 10:46am
Good morning all.

Babr. Great to see you're on a path of comfort and contentment. Balance is everything related to success.

Suzanne. As always, great article! Thanks for it.

Mrs-M
4-27-11, 10:52am
Originally posted by Kib.
Has anyone tried really really really cutting all carbs - which includes sugar and proceeed flour, but also potatoes and corn and fruit and whole grains and brown rice and beans and quinoa and other stuff, even the stuff we think of as healthy - just for a few days?I never have but would be interested in giving it a go, but oh, I can already feel the pain of the cravings I'd for surely suffer from. My dream is to (one day) have a strictly grain, fruit, and vegetable diet (for the most part). I know whenever I hit grains and fruits and vegetables hard, I feel at the top of my game health-wise. I'm energetic, feel less tired and suffer with less "lows", and I sleep better.

kib
4-27-11, 11:25am
A long read, but very well worthwhile. Gary Taubes is a thorough, conscientious researcher, and is to be taken seriously whether writing about sugar or saturated fat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Thank you for this link. I've been meaning to read the article and "Lustig" has been on the tip of my tongue, now it's back in my brain. Personally, I'm happy with the one word answer, even if the evidence is inconclusive: Is sugar toxic? Yes. Reading that there seems to be a sensible hypothesis linking sugar and cancer in addition to all the other things it's linked to seems to me like hitting the jackpot. I'm convinced for sure now, if there's one thing I can do to reduce my disease risk, it's reducing my sugar intake. Ya, I know, crackpot lady talking to her cats, but I'm rather delighted to have an uber-simple concept to hang my battered straw hat on. :~)

JaneV2.0
4-27-11, 1:58pm
Whenever I think jelly beans, I think Reagan-jelly beans-dementia. Needless to say, I don't eat them often.
http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/04/11/more-evidence-that-insulin-plays-a-role-in-the-development-of-dementia/

Kib, I have eaten as you describe for long stretches of time. I feel best at somewhere between 50 and 75 carbohydrates; there is a theory that people with hypothyroid/adrenal issues don't respond as well to really low carbohydrate intake. Unfortunately, with sedentary habits and tortoise-like metabolism, I'm able to maintain or at best slowly dribble away the excess weight that years of carbo-loading vegetarianism left me with.

ejchase
5-4-11, 9:22pm
Hi All,

Okay, I'm joining in very late in the game. I have not read all 16 pages of posts, but I need to cut out sugar from my diet. I know some of you said dietary changes make you irritable, but for me, consuming sugar leads to depression and consequent outbursts of anger. I have successfully given up sugar for stretches of 30 days or more in the past and it always makes me feel better - more energetic, happier, and more constructive in my life, so I'm hoping I can do that again now. I've been eating a lot of sweets lately, and it really runs me down.

My goal is to be sugar-free for 30 days to start. I allow myself fruit sugar and anything else I want to eat, but no refined sugar - basically, no "sweets."

I tried to start today but failed. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll do better and really get this going.

A secondary goal of mine is to try to eat at least 4 servings of vegetables and 2 servings of fruit every day.

lhamo
5-5-11, 6:52am
I've made a little progress with this issue. First, I cut out sugar in my coffee at home. That was actually pretty easy, as we have a nice espresso machine that makes delicious, wonderfully rich coffee. I have also found a great source of really good coffee beans, grown in SW China according to fair trade principals, so I really enjoy my daily cuppa!

Work coffee was a challenge, but I tackled that this week. For a long time, I have been drinking one cup a day of these horrible 3-in-1 instant coffee packets -- the kind where they put the sugar and the creamer in with the instant coffee. It is actually kind of nasty stuff, but I was addicted to it and it was so easy. I thought about switching to green tea, but I don't really like the idea of eating my breakfast with green tea (I don't eat until I get to the office because if I had breakfast at home at 5:00 I would be wanting lunch at 10:00 am). So, when I was cleaning the kitchen cupboards this week I pulled out the coffee maker we put away when we got the espresso machine, and I took that to the office. I can make one pot that is about 3 cups, so only need to make two pots a week. I took some milk and now I am having real coffee instead of the instant wiht my breakfast. One cup only and no sugar, HFCS, or nasty fake creamer stuff!

I don't think I have had anything to eat this week with added sugar. Have had fruit, but modest amounts. A couple of glasses of wine. And I've definitely had more whole grains and fewer refined carbs this week. Feeling pretty good overall.

lhamo

Suzanne
5-5-11, 8:22am
Another factoid about sugar: it apparently only takes 2 teaspoons at any one time to kickstart a cascade of bad reactions; sugar's known to deplete vitamin C and some minerals.

http://www.lowcarbmonthly.com/general-health/the-relationship-between-sugar-and-inflammation.html

Mrs-M
5-5-11, 10:11am
JaneV2.0. Great link, thanks.

Ejchase. Glad to see you! Bumbles and stumbles are all part of the territory, don't them get you down. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. :) Looking forward to following your progress.

Ihamo. You're doing great! Keep up the great work. Sugar-free coffee, I am sooo jealous! I'm trying so, so hard to get there.

Suzanne. Great link. Thank you greatly for it.

To all, wishing everyone much success!

Mrs-M
5-6-11, 12:07am
Quickly wanted to drop-in tonight to brag a little... On the soda pop front, I'm down to one pop a week, sometimes less, and I'm drinking water with almost every meal! This is super big for me. It's been weeks now where I've been on my "little to no pop" roll, so I'm hoping the worst is behind me. Just wanted to share.

Bugeah
5-6-11, 12:18am
Great work Mrs-M!

I'm almost down to sugar-free coffee. Sometimes I can drink it black, but most of the time I have to add a little splash of flavored-creamer and I know it has tons of sugar and nasty stuff in it. I think I will start taking some soy milk with me to the office to use in place of the creamer. Vanilla kind would be even better. I stopped adding extra sugar to my coffee a few months back (I used to use quite a bit of flavored creamer AND sugar!). I really need to work on eliminating sugar from other sneaky sources now.

Mrs-M
5-6-11, 12:30am
Great work too, Bugeah! I've been nibbling away at the amount of honey I add to my coffee and tea lately in hopes I can reduce, but so far I'm at a standstill. Will keep trying although.

Bugeah
5-6-11, 12:36am
Has anyone looked into Stevia? I've heard it's supposed to be better, but I would assume that since it's a sweetener our body will probably metabolize it just like sugar.

Tiam
5-6-11, 12:47am
I have been doing good on this. Although I've gone back to using sugar rather than splenda in my tea. But less intentional sweets. I still want carbs though. Pasta, potatoes, the like. I think I'm doing better in general though.

ejchase
5-6-11, 1:41pm
Well, I made it through Day 1 of my attempt to go sugar-free for 30 days. Whew. It was hard. But what I remember from past times I've done this is that after about 3 days of no sweets, the craving for sugar subsides considerably. I've also noticed I need to stay off artificial sweeteners of all kinds because they seem to cause sweet cravings too.

Not feeling better physically yet, but I will be patient. I probably still have a lot of sugar in my system, and it's going to take a few days to "detox."

kib
5-6-11, 3:24pm
Has anyone looked into Stevia? I've heard it's supposed to be better, but I would assume that since it's a sweetener our body will probably metabolize it just like sugar.
Well, there is "stevia" the plant with slightly sweet leaves, and stevia products, which are highly processed granules and in some cases contain table sugar as well. To me stevia - the product - tastes a lot like saccharin, my tongue is much more aware of the bitterness than the sweetness. The natural leaves taste good to me and I've used them in tea. I don't think there is much carbohydrate in stevia leaves, so it's not metabolized like table sugar, but as ejchase said, there is some question about whether any sort of sweetener, even one with no calories, can trick the body somehow - possibly making you hungrier by making your body prepare to get a big dose of sugar calories that don't come.

Suzanne
5-7-11, 11:35am
Well, well, Weil!! A high-status guru has done his research, and no longer demonises saturated fat, while seeing with great clarity that it's sugars and refined starches that are the enemy!

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400919/Rethinking-Saturated-Fat.html

ejchase
5-7-11, 3:49pm
Thanks for the link, Suzanne. Very interesting.

I made it through Day 2 of my 30 days of no sugar.

I think I'm starting to feel a little better mood-wise, but that could also just be because it's the weekend and my SO is covering baby care for the afternoon so that I can go run some errands!

lhamo
5-7-11, 6:28pm
Well, well, Weil!! A high-status guru has done his research, and no longer demonises saturated fat, while seeing with great clarity that it's sugars and refined starches that are the enemy!

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400919/Rethinking-Saturated-Fat.html

Interesting. I was reading his "8 weeks to optimum health" again awhile ago and found it really dated/innacurate in a lot of the assumptions. The European study that came out this week that debunks the sodium recommendations is another serious blow to the "conventional wisdom" that is probably more mindless orthodoxty based on extrapolation from minimal evidence than anything else.

Gary Taubes posted his blood profile results on his blog, which are really interesting to see -- who would have thought that someone who eats the kind of diet he says he does would have those kind of numbers?

http://www.garytaubes.com/2011/04/before-sugar-were-talking-about-cholesterol/

YOu know, there is so much talk about how difficult it is to do good nutrition studies, etc. But in this time of high unemployment, why isn't anyone considering the possibility of using a real thorough nutrition study as part of the government stimulus -- pay a bunch of people who are out of work a decent stipend, and provide them with all their food for a year. You could have different groups who you put on different kinds of diets. Have a control group who you don't intervene with nutritionally. Do pre- and post-testing of their basic health information. See what the results are. Seems like it would tell us a lot more than these horribly convoluted studies that only look at one thing and that are often focused on the WRONG things.

lhamo

JaneV2.0
5-7-11, 10:15pm
I'm guessing the food processors and marketers who cashed in on the Food Pyramid and are making a killing (literally) on high profit grain-based products--and who provide "educational" material to nutrition students--would lobby such a study into oblivion. There's a lot of money to be made at every stage of the processed food/diet industry/ill health continuum.

Suzanne
5-9-11, 1:07am
I eat a high saturated-fat diet; not as much protein as Taubes, and more veg and fruit. My test results:
TC 229
Triglycerides 46
HDL 77
LDL 143
Ratio HDL/Total Cholesterol: 2.97; rounded up: 3. Optimum: 3.5. By that reckoning, my TC is somewhat low. Lifetime risk of cardiovascular disease: less than 3%.
Fasting glucose: 85. Smack in the healthy range. Lifetime risk of diabetes: less than 3%.
Liver function, by Alanine Transferase testing: my result: 16. Standard range: <36. Liver is doing very well indeed.
Kidney health, by Glomerular Filtration rate: my result: >60. Standard range: >60. Kidneys are in good shape.
Kidney health, by Creatinine: my result: 0.67. Standard range: <1.11. Kidneys in good shape.

It looks as if my diet is suited to my physiological type. Overall, though, saturated fat has a very bad image based on, at the least, poor data management, and at the most, fraudulent data massage by Ancel Keys. Keys had mass data for heart disease and fat consumption for 22 countries. He selected the 5 that fit the profile he'd already generated. Looking at the data for all 22, it looks like there is no correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease. Half a century of follow-up research has consistently failed to show a connection, so of course the answer is that the research has been poorly designed and if a few more studies are run we'll find that link!!

For more information on the Keys data use:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/02/cholesterol-presentation-between.html

Scroll down and look at the graph showing all of the original data. It takes a very determined researcher with a very strong preconceived idea to extract the first graph from that starry starry night image!
Dropping the flippant tone: our species has been eating saturated fat for at least 5 million years. We've been eating sugar for about 300, and we've been eating sugar in large quantities for about 50 years. Which is more likely to do us harm? And why do our bodies store fat as saturated fat if it's so evil? Why do our hearts run on fatty acids instead of glucose? Why are our brains mostly cholesterol? Human fat is very similar to lard. http://www.gnolls.org/

Glo
5-10-11, 11:00am
16 weeks on weigh****chers; down 27.3 pounds. No problems staying on course. This is a first for me. I'm very pleased.

Lainey
5-10-11, 9:08pm
That's awesome progress, Glo, in only 4 months. Congrats.

Bugeah
5-10-11, 10:10pm
Awesome job Glo!

Suzanne
5-10-11, 10:59pm
Go, Glo!! Congratulations!!

Mrs-M
5-12-11, 1:10pm
Greetings everyone! :) Thank you for the excellent links. I have truly reached my happy place with sweets. It's a milestone victory of sorts, first time in my life in fact. I drink nothing but water with lunch and supper, am down to about half a teaspoon of honey in my coffee, and am literally off all sweets entirely! Physically, I feel better, but it's the psychological effects that I notice most. Just knowing I'm doing good for my body provides one with an all-natural high!

Hope everyone else is doing great. Looking forward to chatting again soon.

ejchase
5-13-11, 12:05am
Congratulations, Mrs. M! It sounds like you've made amazing progress.

I've managed to stay off sweets for a week, and I'm feeling a lot better moodwise. I appreciate the support of everyone here - it helps a lot.

Mrs-M
5-13-11, 12:25am
Thanks Ejchase, and congratulations to you too!!! I'm so proud of you for getting to a week. At first (beginning stages), that's the hardest part about staying off of and away from sweets. (The short-term period or effect). But with each short-term period you reach and bypass, comes a reward, the reward being, it gets easier and easier as you go. That's the way it worked with me.

One thing I want to mention to you is, don't be hard on yourself if you fall off the wagon. That's your body's way of telling you that you need it, or you need something sweet, and it's OK. Run with it, and then after the temptation has worn off, get right back at it again. You can do it! :) Sooo looking forward to hearing back from you soon! Best of luck!

ejchase
5-23-11, 3:28pm
Well, I made it through 16 days of my 30 days of no sweets, then yesterday consciously decided to allow myself a "cheat." My dad was visiting from out of town and took us out to a French restaurant I love which has really amazing chocolate mousse, and I just decided that was too good an opportunity to pass up. It was definitely worth it.

Then today, I just slipped and had another sweet.

So what I'm going to do is resume my 30 days tomorrow, counting tomorrow as Day 17.

Mrs-M
5-23-11, 5:29pm
Slips and falls are the nature of the beast when it comes to sugar challenges. Take them in stride and don't allow them to win over you. Say to yourself- "they are temporary, passing, and will not break me". Anyhow, 16 days is like WOW! Good on you!!! I've had several slips, falls, and tumbles over the past week, but I'm back at it again. :) Hope you had a lovely visit and time with your dad.

ejchase
5-25-11, 12:53pm
Thanks, Mrs. M.

Made it through Day 17 yesterday. Really glad to be back on track.

Mrs-M
5-26-11, 12:01am
Yay! So happy for you and for the success you're enjoying Ejchase! Looking forward to hearing from you again, soon! :)

babr
5-29-11, 6:25am
so glad this is continuing and congrats to everyone in all their successes even if small;

Mrs-M
6-3-11, 1:43pm
Thanks Babr! :) How about you my dear? How are you making out with your "kick the sweets" quest?