Remodeling a basement

[fidgiegirl]

We are looking to remodel our basement. I took a stab at posting the following on the MMM forums a few days ago, but almost all the responses have been to criticize the business idea or other posters, so going to try it here with my trusty friends. :)

I would like to remodel our basement and have a vision for how we can do it so that we can make some extra $$ renting it out on AirBNB (https://www.airbnb.com/), and when not doing that, it would make a nice guest suite. It would be almost a studio apartment, but without a full kitchen. In a future with children (uncertain, but a possibility) it would be a very complete family room.

I have combed AirBNB pretty thoroughly, and in the area on this side of the river and immediately on the other side, there are very few offerings of what we would have - they are either entire homes or host's guest room & sharing the host's bathroom - not much in between. We have a separate entrance available for total privacy and are just 4 blocks from a sizable University and two other smaller ones. We're have 3 bus lines within 4 blocks, and a freeway 5 min. away. In the summer, there are rental bikes available. We have a pretty attractive neighborhood!

We don't want a full-fledged tenant, because we'd want to use the downstairs for our own purposes sometimes, and if we did well on AirBNB (consistently renting out), we'd actually make more money.

In the dream plan, we'd:
- Reroute plumbing to swap location of bathroom and laundry. This would add a shower, making a 3/4 bath in the basement (currently we have a toilet/sink down there, and not in a "guest acceptable" configuration), adding overall value to our home. It would also keep our laundry in the same room as our laundry chute AND keep it accessible for us if we had a guest without having to go through their space. We could also then lock it off to a guest, or make it available. If we left it in its current location that would not be a possibility. There are two bathroom ideas right now. The preferable one would be more rerouting, and the less preferable-but-still-acceptable one would be less.
- Rewire (dad can help with this)
- Replace studs as needed.
- Add an egress window, making a legal bedroom in the basement, also adding value to the home. I don't know if we could do AirBNB without this, either. Actually that reminds me that legal bedrooms have closets. Not sure we'd add that at this time, but it's a big room . . . it could be added later if we sold.
- Add a kitchenette - sink, micro, mini fridge (biiiiig dream there - wouldn't be a must, but would make it nice for someone staying a few days. Sharing our kitchen/living area is not going to be part of our AirBNB offering.) We could still set up fridge/micro with no sink and that would be better than restauranting for every single meal.
- Wall off utility room.
- Sheetrock or another alternative.
- Drop ceiling to cover pipes/wires.
- Install new flooring, something non-carpet
- Add radiators or another source of heat. We already have a boiler and good HVAC guy. But not sure if this can even be done. Radiators are the dream :) Would like to avoid electric heat.

I think that's all. We did a lot of the remodeling on our house and we'd be prepared to do much of this ourselves. Not sure how confident we'd be with the rerouting of the plumbing (under the floor), but we have a pretty good guy we could call on for that. The rest of it - almost all of it, maybe except installing an egress window - we could do.

So my question is, how do I go about calculating the full cost of the remodel?

And something that bothered me with our house, we did it ourselves to save money, but then that took longer, costing us lost opportunity with rent. It's kind of the same thing here. And if we stretch it out over maaaaaany months, well . . . all the more opportunity lost. What are your thoughts on that?

Also, do basements need to be insulated?

Oh my, that is a long post! Thank you my friends.

[bunnys]

How do you hear about all this stuff (airbnb?) I have never heard of this site.

That sounds like a wonderful idea. I have no clue but I do have my master bedroom w/ attached bath (that is currently not working) that I could do this with.

My concern: strangers in the house...

[Tussiemussies]

We have never refinished a basement but are going to put new flooring in ours, we investigated the internet and found that vinyl flooring is the best solution. We tool a look at it in the stores and it looks like hardwood laminate.

The other thing we have found out is that Dutch Boy offers a new paint called Refresh, which absorbs odors for the life of the paint. It may. E a good choice for a tenant's apartment?

Good luck with your endeavor, it does sound like the perfect location!

[fidgiegirl]

bunnys, I'm sure I ran across it while wasting copious amounts of time on the interwebs. :laff: That's usually how I find this stuff . . . seriously, though, take a look at the "hosts" section of their website. There are a lot of people who have a room available in the part of the home that they occupy. I was surprised at how many in my area have this as the shared arrangement. Might be a nice little supplement to a teaching income . . .

Tussies, great tip on the paint. We'll have to look into it. Luckily the basement is nice and dry so no odor, really, to speak of, at least to my little nose. LOL ok my big nose! :)

[iris lily]

I have no idea how to figure the costs of a remodel, DH does that all the time, it's his livelihood. There are calculators for that, see if you can find one on the web. It would only give you approximate costs, however. Moving plumbing and installing wiring is very site specific. Your basement is not insulated in MN? But you guys are good at DIY so you should seriously consider that.

In order to make any real money you'd have to rent often. That would lead to several problems and I'm sure you've already thought about them, but ones that come to mind are
1) unknown strangers and their potential for scary or inappropriate behavior in your home (this is not the B& B crowd )
2) their inability to pay, and how will you get them out if they cannot pay
3) zoning in your neighborhood for this activity

[cattledog]

Looking at your list, labor is really the biggest cost. I'd just do some research to see how much materials cost. I'm not sure you have to insulate a basement. You might want to look at soundproofing the ceiling or insulating with fire-resistant materials, but other than than I don't think the walls need to be insulated. Several of my friends in MN lived in uninsulated basement apartments (cinderblock walls) and they were warm and cozy in the winter and cool in the summer. The biggest expense seems to be the egress window. Be careful aobut that though. Adding another bedroom to your house may increase your property taxes. The same goes for adding another bathroom. You may want to add that in your calculations.

[SteveinMN]

A few ideas:

- Since you're thinking of hiring out some of the work, I don't think it would be unethical to ask a couple of recommended contractors to come in and give you estimates, discussing beforehand the potential of your doing some/most of the work. That would give you an educated guesstimate on some of the costs.
- There are ways to search the Web for cost estimates. There are calculators out there; I don't have any links but I did see them when I was looking at rental properties. I found it helpful to search for "how much does it cost" name of project . That helped identify possible complications in our property and provided ballpark estimates on costs for more standard work.
- For the parts you're going to do, say, figuring out how many pieces of drywall you'll need and how much mud and sandpaper you'll need based on coverage rates on the can (or previous experience), you can list it all and take a trip to the hardware store/home-improvement store of choice and add it all up. Myself, I'd start a spreadsheet with projects and subprojects and costs listed on it.
- Don't forget that buying that much stuff from LoMenard's Depot should get you a discount, even if you're not buying it all at once. Ask the store manager before you get to the register.
- IKEA has a kitchen-modeling program and, since they sell sinks and appliances and such, it can be complete except for infrastructure and labor costs. That may not help you much since you seem to be interested primarily in labor costs.
- As for the basement, is it cold when you walk in there now? If you're going to put up drywall anyway, you might want to think about stuffing batts between the studs both for the sake of insulation (more never hurts) and quiet (both for you and your guest or the kids in the family room). If you're adding a heat source, you probably don't want to lose that heat because of poor insulation.
- I would reconsider electric auxiliary heat. First, if the area is unoccupied, do you want to be heating it? With an addition to your boiler, you won't have a choice -- unless you go for a multiple-zone system, which could cost $$. Second, with electric heat, your guest can choose their comfort level, not yours. Maybe that's being too nice. But I'd spend a little more time thinking about that.

[lhamo]

I would do it. One way to get a steady stream of high-quality, low-maintainance tenants would be to let the Universities in the area know you have space available. There might be visiting lecturers, prospective grad students, or newly arrived faculty who would like this as a housing option, especially given the proximity to the campuses.

Good luck and let us know how it goes if you decide to do it!

lhamo

[miradoblackwarrior]

Hi, fidgiegirl--
I would suggest you research your zoning laws and tenant's rights in your community. I know where I live you have to have at least 2 egresses, plus a stove and running water. Things to think about! Don't get caught shorthanded legally, because any tenant has quite a few rights, and you've got to be prepared.

Susan

[Gregg]

The costs will very considerably with your material selections, how much will be DIY vs. hired, the size of your basement, any surprises you find in the walls (and there WILL be surprises), etc. The only way you can get an accurate cost estimate is to pick all your materials in advance figure out what you can realistically do yourself. At this point all any contractor can do is give you an estimate based on selections typical for your area and home type. That would at least get you a ball park figure to start off with, but would still have a chance to go way up or down. It almost always goes up so you want to be a careful as you can to get specific materials, detailed scopes of work and hard estimates for work that is hired out. Also, always check references and get a copy of the current contractor's insurance. Anyone worth hiring will provide both.

With all the colleges in your immediate area I would think renting to parents of students would be an option. You would think that crowd might carry a little less risk for inappropriate behavior and you might end up with a list of repeat customers who come back for lots of various events.

It sounds like a fun project...good luck Kelli!

[iris lily]

about the zoning laws: I just kind of threw that out there, it's probably moot in this case since I'm assuming this is intended as a non-recognized (illegal) rental.

But it's a good thing to know what the legal limits are so that you know which city ordinance with which you are non-compliant. Once you start this, the word can get around on your block that you are doing this and if it negatively impacts your neighbors, they can complain to authorities.

[jp1]

There's another website, vrbo.com (vacation rental by owner) that you should check out. It tends to be more whole houses as opposed to rooms in an occupied house, but what you're planning sounds nice enough to sell there as well.

The only other thing I'd suggest that no one else has mentioned is to check with your homeowners' insurance company/agent. I have no idea if they'll have an issue with you renting out to transient tenants like this, but you need to let them know up front and get their blessing/confirmation that this won't trigger an exclusion in the policy if you suffer a loss. It'd be truly horrible if you had a guest who accidentally set the house on fire and during the investigation your insurer learned the story and then denied the claim because of some exclusion of business activity or whatever.