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cx3
1-9-13, 10:09am
Just have to share this. I'm 46 yrs old and for all that time I have ate meat for atleast two meals a day.I have never given this any thought.This is all I have ever known.I had heard that a plant based diet was good for me,but I just figured it was all propoganda and lies from the PETA people.
We recently got Netflix.We hadn't watched any TV shows for about 5 yrs. up to this point.Our favorite has been a show narrorated by John Goodman (can't remember the name of show).Anyway,they travel around the country looking for the top ten eateries for whatever.My wife and I were loving it.We were even dreaming of planning our vacations around visiting some of these eateries.
Here's where it gets interesting.Under Netflix documentaries was a movie called Forks over Knives.We start watching this thinking it was a documentary on great restuarants.What a shock I was in for.To my suprise it wasn't about great restuarants but about the benefits of a plant based diet. The world as I knew it was turned upside down. What an education.
We have been almost plant based for two weeks now.We still cook and bake with milk and eggs.The best part for me is that I haven't even missed the meat.I have never craved meat (I crave carbs).For 46 yrs.I have mindlessly been eating meat because I didn't know any better.
I have watched several more related documentaries to learn even more.Fat,Sick and Nearly Dead was another great film.
I'll update this on occasion to share any health benefits I encounter.This isn't a self-deprivation lose weight diet plan for me.I am just now sickened by the idea of what animal products are doing to my body.
I grew up on a hobby farm.Our animals were always treated in a humane manner.My eyes were opened to how some animals are treated in commercial operated facilities and it was rather cruel.
This vegetarian thing looks like a win-win-win (body,planet,and animals).
I don't want anyone to think I've become self-righteous over this.If you like your slab of ribs then by all means continue.I support your right to eat whatever you want.

decemberlov
1-9-13, 10:41am
I watched both these documentaries on netflix as well and very much enjoyed them both! Very eye opening indeed! Our family does eat meat still but now I try to make meat more of a side dish than the actual main part of the meal. And although we do buy organic milk I have limited the consumption especially for my little one that LOVES it. Fat, Sick & Nearly dead really has me wanting to buy a juicer but they are not cheap! I think I'll add this to my Christmas list this year :)

Nice to hear the transition has been so easy for you!

catherine
1-9-13, 10:47am
I went vegetarian when I was 46, too! (I'm now 60). What started it for me were a pile of specific small insights that wound up motivating me to back out of eating meat. One insight was the hypocrisy of outrage over animal welfare in one case (like when one cow escaped slaughter in Brooklyn and was subsequently spared the ax), but in other cases where we don't "know" the animal, it's business as usual. In other words, our empathy is very ego-related. When we let go of our ego, why can't we extend that empathy to creatures we don't have a "relationship" with? When I realized I was happy eating an anonymous cow, but horrified at the thought of eating my dog, I really felt I needed to examine my motives.

I also realized that if I'm not willing to kill the animal myself, I have no right to ask someone else to do the dirty work.

I also realized that I'm not a huge foodie, and I like a lot of different foods, so if I can spare suffering by choosing from the vast array of other nutritional sources, why not?

Like you, I also learned how bad CAFOs are. And I read Peter Singer's Animal Liberation, as well as John Robbin's Diet for a New America, which were very thought-provoking.

I have stopped calling myself a vegetarian, because I actually do eat fish, and also I just don't like labeling myself. I prefer to say that most of my food choices involve excluding meat. I also have no problem at all with the choices other people make, and there are many good reasons for eating meat. I simply choose to focus on my reasons for not eating it.

cx3
1-9-13, 11:25am
I know what you mean decemberlov.After watching Fat,Sick and Nearly Dead I wanted to purchase a juicer asap,but found the prices rather prohibitive.We found a masticating(sp) juicer on Craigslist at a good price. Craigslist is loaded with juicers.
Love the juicer. We tried a dab of ginger root this morning in our juicer.Put in way to much.
Wife and I are expanding our food options.This is all new to us.Before today,the only thing I knew about ginger was that I liked ginger snap cookies. I use to dip them in my coffee.I didn't even know ginger was a root crop.

bUU
1-9-13, 12:37pm
I was 45 when I became a vegetarian. The prevalence of CAFOs is without a doubt the most grievous offense in all this. The turning point for me was when one of our church youth came back from a witnessing trip, and attested to the horrors she saw that prompted her to become vegan. My conviction has been bolstered in recent years by books like Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer.

pinkytoe
1-9-13, 12:53pm
For all the reasons mentioned, the appeal of eating meat is waning. We have reduced meat based meals to 1-2x a week from what used to be almost every night. When we do eat meat, it is a very small portion. Our kick starter was also Forks Over Knives.
We purchased a Breville juicer (think it was $130) a while back and it has worked well. We juice up a mix of beets, celery, apple and carrot and then add that juice to blender along with greens, cucumber and a frozen banana. That way there is some fiber since the juicer removes so much of it. It has become a morning ritual when we aren't rushed and I can definitely feel the difference when we go without for a week or more.

bae
1-9-13, 1:23pm
I was sorta-kinda vegetarian for about a decade, because I found factory farming troublesome. I would still eat meat and fish I harvested myself, thus the sorta-kinda part.

Since moving to my current location 13 years ago, I've started eating more beef/lamb/goat, always sourced from people I know who raise them ethically. Often they are my daughters' or her friends' 4H projects. I also have an arrangement with a friend nearby who raises lamb and goat for me as part of her own farming.

gimmethesimplelife
1-9-13, 1:42pm
I had every intention of going vegetarian a few years ago and even did for several months but slowly drifted away from it and then when I took seasonal serving jobs that had meals and housing included there was no way to eat vegetarian on these jobs without eating the same thing day in and day out.

But one positive thing about the gun rhetoric I posted on in another thread? I might not be able to change much there but what I CAN do is to eat vegetarian and respect all forms of human and animal life. That much is in my power and control. Looks like tofu dogs tonight lol!

Interesting too as I am 46 and I am noticing on these posts that mid 40's seems to be around the age when folks here went veg. I wonder if there's any connection? Rob

bUU
1-9-13, 1:56pm
I'm not sure. My spouse was 55.

Rosemary
1-9-13, 2:27pm
I was vegetarian and nearly vegan from about ages 23-33. No dairy, but I sometimes ate salmon or eggs.
When I became pregnant, the soy milk that I had used for many years tasted bitter. I tried other brands. Same thing. Then I got all-day morning sickness, and dairy was one of the few foods that I could handle.

Now I eat small amounts of meats, usually poultry, and mostly as a component in a vegetable-heavy meal, and only a few times/week. I eat more vegetables than I did when I was a hardcore vegetarian. I buy organic/grass-fed animal products when possible, and generally omit them when not. We eat a lot of vegan meals. But a little feta or romano cheese, or some turkey in a stew, really adds a lot of flavor, and I'd rather get the flavors I'm seeking that way than in processed soy foods or excess sodium. Still not a lot of dairy in our house. None of us drinks milk, although we keep almond milk on hand for cooking and coffee.

The only label I currently apply to my eating style is mindful or conscious.

lhamo
1-9-13, 3:11pm
I was vegetarian briefly from about age 17-19. It was partly an ethical choice, but also motivated by the fact that the boarding school I was attending in the UK had pretty ugly cafeteria food, and the limited vegetarian options they had generally were more palatable (cooked in smaller batches, or just basic salads/fruit and cheese plates, etc). But you could only take those if you were on the "registered vegetarian" list.

I ended up getting severely anemic and generally pretty run down, largely my own fault because I wasn't into cooking at that point and was eating a pretty limited diet. And once I moved back to the US for college and was working/going to school, I found it harder to stick to the diet. So I went back to eating meat.

I have blood sugar issues and I need regular protein fixes, and to be honest I like meat, so I don't think I'll ever go fully vegetarian again. But I probably should reduce the amount of meat I eat. Hard when you are doing a low carb thing. I may experiment a bit more after I get my weight down more in my target range. I do like vegetables much more now than I used to. Living in China has helped with that, actually.

ApatheticNoMore
1-9-13, 3:48pm
I was vegetarian between 20-26 or so. No horror stories (except for the brief period then that I was vegan - lots of stuff seemed to be falling apart all at once then - but my lacto-ovo vegetarian years were better), but I think I was rather weak overall. It's not always a great diet for younger women (just things like iron tend to be low anyway). I don't think anyone will ever convince me fish is somehow unhealthy, but not always sustainable is probably true. Other than fish, meat I could cut down on.

Zoebird
1-9-13, 4:06pm
I was vegan ages 22-27/8, and then vegetarian from then to 34/35. I am now paleo, and my husband was always omnivorous, eating from sources similar to what bae describes -- farms we know, etc.

A lot of the vegetarian documentaries out there aren't *exactly* accurate in terms of nutritional science, so do go and get some information about nutrition from a variety of sources, and if you are eating soy, please do check out the Weston A Price Foundation's exceptional research on the topic (they have studied a wide variety of information). This is what guided DH's omnivorism, and has a great influence on us.

This is my normal day:

breakfast at 11 am to 3 pm (i start eating sometime in that window): two eggs in butter or three hardboiled eggs; juiced green drink -- new process for us -- which is dark greens, herbs like parsley and mint, and lemon with some black currants or cranberries, and a bit of manuka honey to balance any bitterness.

dinner at 7 pmish: start with some fermented veggies as the appetizer, bone broth as the beverage, and then a very large and diverse salad, meat of the day (beef, venison, fish, chicken -- sometimes offal). Sometimes finish with fruit -- either berries in coconut cream or an orange or similar.

I went from a healthy but still "standard american diet" with more processed foods that I realized to vegan -- I lost a lot of weight, healed a hormonal problem, and was training triathlons. I had a great time and learned so much as a vegan. I learned so much about food! I learned to cook, too. I learned how much I love soups (in winter, salads at dinner are replaced with soups because of the seasonality of the veg).

I also learned that I was lactose intolerant. I can handle butter/ghee in small quantities -- which is why my brekkie up there is eggs in butter OR just hard boiled eggs. I can do the butter every-other or every-third day. We buy raw cream, make butter and butter milk, then I usually clarify the butter gently (low heat).

As a vegan, though, my cholesterol got very low. I had hypocholesterolemia. I didn't realize it, but my whole family (of meat eaters) has low cholesterol. Thus, by having a diet *so* low in cholesterol (it wasn't low in fat, though), I just went too far that way. Since cholesterol is really important for a lot of processes, I opted to go back to eating eggs. After getting tired of eating 6 eggs a day, I added in butter and raw yogurt (full fat) which I could handle. Butter better than yogurt, so yogurt was once-a-week at best. It mostly caused a slight tummy ache.

So, I was then vegetarian and learned how to make frittatas and quiches and the like. Lots of things with eggs. I was never a big bean/grain eater, though DH would have me eat some every day in some form (cooked and cooled on a salad, sprouted), and I would tolerate it in soups. But, I often got gas, so my main foods were eggs, butter/yogurt and lots and lots of veggies (cooked and raw). And some fruit. And some grains (i liked ancient grains like faro, amaranth, kamut, etc). I also did some nuts and seeds, but I'm no big fan there either.

When I went paleo, I discovered that my on-going gas/bloating -- which I just thought was my way of life -- was from the grains and beans that I ate. I do well on quinoa (a seed) and so-so with rice, but everything else caused that problem. Learned that while dining with friends. :) Many of them are veg. ;)

So, like veganism, paleo has definitely taught me things about myself. Today, I don't eat dairy because of veganism, but I learned during vegetarianism that butter/ghee are ok. And I learned from paleo how grains/beans affect me.

Living here in NZ, I learned how to eat seasonally -- I was already eating locally, but price points change so dramatically with the seasons here that you are basically forced to seasonally eat. That's been an amazing process.

We started Intermittent Fasting (IF) this past year and have realy found that enlightening. DH and I eat during an 8 hr window only, 16 off, and sometimes that window is smaller (4-6 hrs in my case). DS is not fasting, of course. I do two meals in my window, DH usually does 3, and DS eats 3 meals and 2 snacks usually, though sometimes he just eats three big meals. And DS is grain-free at home, but otherwise we don't fuss about it, and he has dairy (raw yogurt twice a day, usually. it's his favorite!).

This year, we are trying to move into seafood because we can harvest kai moana for free. There are daily limits for families -- but with fishing and collecting shellfish, we might be able to do 2-3 meals a week that way (dinners). We just don't know how to prepare it. We are also taking foraging classes to identify local, wild veg and herbs to add to our diet. I have kawakawa in my back courtyard, so I'm learning how to use that for nutrition and medicine as my first foray. There's a class on kawakawa next week that I'm taking. :)

I'm always looking for ways to be healthier and more ethical in our choices. Also, it's an exciting journey of self discovery.

Minz
1-9-13, 4:13pm
CX3,
I got chills and my eyes welled a bit when I read your post! I really believe that if everyone found out what really goes on, they would change their eating habits! Good for you! I've been a vegetarian for about a decade and am working on going vegan with the goal of getting all animal products out of my life.
I have yet to watch Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead but will definitely do so soon!!
Our health, the planet and the animals all win when we take on a vegetarian/vegan diet.
The best to you on your new path in life - I'm sure you will inspire others!

catherine
1-9-13, 4:25pm
Zoebird, interesting post. I find it fascinating to hear people's food journeys. At first when I read you were on a paleo diet, it sounded like a huge leap from being vegetarian/vegan. When I think of a paleo diet I just picture cavemen sitting there with big leg of bison chowing down.

Interestingly, my DS34 just came by the house and mentioned how his live-in girlfriend, a real foodie, is now on a Paleo diet (she's also a big proponent of Weston Price). So I just looked up paleo diet, and it's not what I pictured. You get to eat veggies, and eggs, etc.! :) Also, the meat is grass-fed (at least on the site I was on), and thus the cows are probably treated more humanely than not. The only thing I thought was curious that legumes are on the "no-no" list. Not sure why???

Anyway, very insightful hearing everyone's stories about how they eat.

bae
1-9-13, 4:29pm
Anyway, very insightful hearing everyone's stories about how they eat.

I've been eating a hybrid paleo-primal diet(*) over the past year, have lost 50 pounds, and am stronger at the age of ~50 than I was at ~21.

(*) basically a codeword for all the fruits and veggies I want eaten throughout the day, meat when I feel like it, and cheese/eggs now-and-then, because I like those :-)

SteveinMN
1-9-13, 7:51pm
The only thing I thought was curious that legumes are on the "no-no" list. Not sure why???
Legumes and grains are considered cultivated crops in the Paleo diet, and, therefore, unlikely to have been available to cavepersons in any quantity. It's also a good way to get a lot of high-glycemic-index carbohydrates off the diet. I know beans don't fall into the high-glycemic category (we've been eating more of them as a carb and protein source), but, like any simple rule, there are exceptions. :)

Greg44
1-10-13, 1:28am
Vegetarian since 2000, about 95% vegan since 2011. Diet Coke is my last vice! I feel great, have lost 65 lbs and running more. For me, it has been a great choice.

goodlife
1-13-13, 9:00pm
At 42 I've had a philosophy of "if I can kill it I can eat it" for approx ten years. So I'm primarily vegetarian but will eat fish (technically a pescatarian). I commend anybody who can slaughter the meat they eat, there's an honesty in that.

Tiam
1-13-13, 10:05pm
What show was it that talked about the evolution of domesticated animals? Can't remember, Germs, guns, and steel. Anyway, it never occurred to me how many animals wouldn't even exist in their current form if they hadn't been domesticated to be used by man as food and how that changed the evolution of man also. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have ethical treatment of animals. Anyway....this conversation made me remember that. Congratulations on your conversion. I eat meat but very little.

cx3
1-18-13, 4:08pm
http://www.just-food.com/news/russia-bans-us-meat-imports-tested-for-ractopamin_id121499.aspx

Wonder why this story has not been reported by mass media? As if I had to ask.

Been vegetarian for three weeks now with no cravings and more energy. I'm not going back.

I found the above link on another site.The discussion was about food safety.Someone commented that this issue was something that both liberals and conservatives should ban together on to fix.I thought that was an excellent point.

ApatheticNoMore
1-18-13, 4:16pm
http://www.just-food.com/news/russia..._id121499.aspx

Wonder why this story has not been reported by mass media? As if I had to ask.

I doubt it meets the organic standards, so no need to give up meat, buy organic! :)

Rosemary
1-18-13, 4:23pm
Wonder why this story has not been reported by mass media?

Call me cynical, but I'd wager to guess that it has something with all the ad time purchased by large agribusiness, including the beef and pork industry.

Zoebird
1-18-13, 9:56pm
The only thing I thought was curious that legumes are on the "no-no" list. Not sure why???

Well, in a way, Steve is both right and wrong. Paleo is based on this idea that we evolved to who/what we are on certain foods, and therefore if we eat the right foods, we will be healthier. The similar idea is that you feed a zoo animal what it would eat in the wild for the animal to have optimal health.

Thus, the premise is that we evolved on paleolithic foods, not neolithic foods. Anything cultivated (grains, legumes,dairy for people who are strict) is off the menu, or unnatural for us.

The problem with this, though -- as an idea -- is that it leads to what I call "caveman reenactment" ideas/behavior. People hear "paleo" and think "cave man reenactment" as opposed to -- there might be a really good reason to NOT eat these things.

There is, of course, science. We do have some understanding of the various aspects of foods.

WAPF has a lot of good information about grains and beans (legumes) and their anti-nutrients. WAPF focuses on appropriate processing of these items in order to eat them -- decreasing the impact of the anti-nutrients, so that you can get the nutrients from it. This processing can take up to a week in some instance (ie, making bread the WAPF way is a 7-day process).

In addition, these foods are very low in nutrients. You need a lot of volume to get a decent amount of nutrients form them, which increases the calorie count that a person eats. There is a study on Seth Robert's blog (http://sethroberts.net) (Shangri-la Diet -- which, btw, I don't entirely buy, but he has a lot of great research on there) that describes how rats work on low-nutrient vs high-nutrient food sources. When rats have low-nutrient food sources, they eat more food in order to get the nutrients, increasing caloric intake and therefore weight. When rats have high-nutrient food sources, they eat less food and maintain a healthy weight.

Humans seem to follow the same process -- in fact most animals do -- so part of paleo is choosing to eat the most nutrient rich food sources in order to get the highest nutritional benefit while eating the lowest volume of food. And, by decreasing foods that can cause inflammation (dairy, grains, beans . . . other people will haev other issues such as nuts, nightshades, etc as well), we are overall increasing our body's health and efficiency.

So, the real point of 'paleo' is not to reenact caveman diets, but rather to really look at what makes the human body "the healthiest" in terms of overall health and fitness markers. Paleo often also includes movement and sleep regimes that people like to work with, in order to get more health benefits overall. It can actually run quite a gamut of behaviors beyond diet. A whole "lifestyle" so to speak (similar to veganism in that way, really).

Thus, the paleo diet eschews processed foods, sugars, grains and beans (antinutrients), dairy (for some, not all -- not everyone has a problem with dairy at the health level -- but strict paleos will be dairy free), and then for some it will also have what I call 'specialization' -- some people find nightshades or nuts to be a problem (many paleos are cautious with nuts anyway, on account of the poly unsaturated fatty acids that they carry -- or PUFAs as we call them!), others will forgo caffeine (tea/coffee).

Paleo also takes a lot of form from the "kitivan styled" high-carb versions all the way to carnivorous. Kitivans were a tribe of people who were largely vegetarian, eating seafood as an addition to their diet. On the other end of the spectrum, you have traditional inuit styled diets, from which many modern "carnivores" get their basic idea. And of course, there is everything in between.

My own process has largely been with Marks Daily Apple (http://www.marksdailyapple.com). This is the Primal Blueprint (PB). Essentially, you determine your protein needs, your carb needs (he has a scale based on what your goals are), and then the rest of your diet is fat. PB is a "low carb/high fat" diet, but "low carb" means basically that one of your other macronutrients is higher than your carb. It could be protein or fat to make it 'low carb.' other definitions are things like "less than 50% calories from carbs" equals low carb. Thus, you could be "primal" and still eat 49% calories from carbs and be "low carb" by that definition! LOL

Anyway, when I was vegan, I would eat about 2200 calories per day. Because the food was low-nutrient (being plant based), I needed more calories. This also required me to be more active. I was anyway (i like to be active).

Today, I consume about 1600 calories per day. This is all self-determined, i'm not restricting at all. I keep a record just to see how things are going, what my daily percentages are, etc. Just to check in so to speak. :) And, i'm still active. :) But, I don't have to be as-active. I'm also leaner than I was as a vegan, even with all of the working out.

In terms of overall health -- i'm very strong and healthy, fertility is *really* healthy. Sleep is good. Exercise is easy (minimal exercise leads to maximum results), and I no longer have the digestive issues that I always had growing up (lots of tummy aches after meals, lots of gas/bloating/constipation!).

I also will say that I've stopped emotional eating. I've been working with it -- method-wise -- for many years. I used to have to talk my way through it.

Since starting IF as a part of this journey, I *can't* emotionally eat. I just have no desire to at all. And, food cravings have gone away. I used to have cravings for ice cream, cookies, etc (part of the emotional eating), and now, I just am completely disinterested. It's fun sometimes, but. . . usually I just avoid it all. No need for it, no desire for it. I consider that a *massive* win for me!

I measured my waist today. According to my (lengthy) online journals. . . lol I was 5 ft 7, 128 lbs with a 27 inch waist as a vegan (aged 22-28ish). Today, I am same height, same weight, 26 inch waist -- leaner! You can see my abs now, which was never possible before. Not like a fitness model (not my taste), but you can definitely see the lines. For 36, that's not shabby.

DH and I also talked about extending our "fertility window." Before (even last year), I was only comfortable with acting on fertility up to age 40. But now, I feel confident extending it up to age 45. Looking at my charts, everything is going so well, I feel confident in my ability to have a healthy child and healthy pregnancy at a much higher age.

So, if we want to act on it, we can. We don't have any plans at the moment, though. :) Still, i think fertility is a good indicator of health.

Zoebird
1-18-13, 9:59pm
Also, didn't mean to hijack the thread on paleo. ;)

I do know paleo vegetarians -- they eat eggs, some also include dairy. So, that's entirely possible as well.

Gregg, to break the DC habit, you're going to have to bite the bullet. Expect withdrawals (just like from drugs). Get your caffeine from tea/coffee, and then get your fizzy from mineral water mixed with juice. I did a combination of unsweetened iced tea and fizzy water (slowly decreasing the juice over time) to get off of coke about 10 years ago.