View Full Version : Devaes family trademarkes Urban Homesteading
The Storyteller
2-17-11, 5:31pm
From the Can You F'ing Believe It department.
DERVAES INSTITUTE
Jules Dervaes, Presiding Officer
631 Cypress Avenue
Pasadena, CA 91103
(626) 795-8400
dervaes@dervaesinstitute.org
To Whom It May Concern:
This notice is to inform you of important matters regarding the published works and/or brand names of Jules Dervaes and Dervaes Institute. We are extremely supportive of members of our online communities; fans of our websites, writings and photographs; and others who help to spread information regarding sustainable living. However, we must also guard against the unauthorized use or exploitation of our intellectual property for commercial gain. From the beginning, our work published online and in other media has been copyrighted and trademarked. We have now secured registered trademarks for certain unique names and images. By protecting our intellectual property we are better able to ensure that our work is presented accurately and contributes to our sustainable living projects and educational initiatives.
As you may know, the Dervaes family has been practicing sustainable living in Pasadena, Calif., since 1985. Our work has been documented and shared online at www.urbanhomestead.org and other websites since 2001, receiving national and international media attention. Additionally, we produced an award-winning short documentary film about our project, called Homegrown Revolution, which has been featured at film festivals around the world and on Oprah’s 2009 Earth Day television special. Over the last 25 years, our family has created a wealth of intellectual property in the field of sustainable living. Through the Dervaes Institute, we have been committed to freely educating others about the practices and benefits of self-sufficiency.
We realize that your use of Dervaes published words and/or trademarks may have been inadvertent. We are generally able to resolve any such uses without involving our legal counsel. This would require that you update your websites and articles to properly cite our works. For example, the writings of Jules Dervaes about sustainable living are original protected works in which Dervaes owns exclusive rights. Content from the Dervaes websites, including text and photographs, are also protected works.
When using Dervaes materials, the proper way to go about it is as follows:
•Only use a small sample of our work in any single instance;
•Copy the portion used in its entirety – do not paraphrase or extract portions of images or paragraphs;
•Make it clear – by using quotation marks or different font size or color – that the Dervaes materials referenced are from another source;
•Include a prominent link or reference to the original source of the content used on a Dervaes website.
In addition, Dervaes Institute owns numerous trademarks which should be properly acknowledged if used. These protected names and images include the following registered trademarks:
•URBAN HOMESTEAD®
•URBAN HOMESTEADING®
•PATH TO FREEDOM®
•GROW THE FUTURE®
•HOMEGROWN REVOLUTION®
•FREEDOM GARDENS®
•LITTLE HOMESTEAD IN THE CITY®
•Also, THE TEN ELEMENTS OF URBAN HOMSTEADING copyright has been filed with the Library of Congress.
If your use of one of these phrases is not to specifically identify products or services from the Dervaes Institute, then it would be proper to use generic terms to replace the registered trademark you are using. For example, when discussing general homesteading or other people’s projects, they should be referred to using terms such as ‘modern homesteading,’ ‘urban sustainability projects,’ or similar descriptions.
When using a phrase listed above to refer to the work of the Dervaes Institute, proper trademark usage should include the proper trademark notice [®], use the protected phrase in all capital letters, and note in close proximity that the term is a protected trademark of Dervaes Institute.
Thank you in advance for respecting our legally protected intellectual property rights. If you have been supportive of our ten-year online work in the past, we appreciate very much your continued support.
If you have any questions regarding the use of Dervaes materials or trademarks, please contact us at (626) 795-8400. We would be glad to provide you with more details.
Regards,
Jules Dervaes
Dervaes Institute
The Storyteller
2-17-11, 9:39pm
Looks like a done deal too. How you trademark a term like this is beyond me. And note it is the words that are trademark, not their form.
This from the US Patent Office. Note bolded section:
================================================== ================================================== ======================
Thank you for your request. Here are the latest results from the TARR web server.
This page was generated by the TARR system on 2011-02-17 21:23:00 ET
Serial Number: 77574809 Assignment Information Trademark Document Retrieval
Registration Number: 3855377
Mark
(words only): URBAN HOMESTEAD
Standard Character claim: Yes
Current Status: Registered. The registration date is used to determine when post-registration maintenance documents are due.
Date of Status: 2010-10-05
Filing Date: 2008-09-19
Transformed into a National Application: No
Registration Date: 2010-10-05
Register: Principal
Law Office Assigned: LAW OFFICE 117
If you are the applicant or applicant's attorney and have questions about this file, please contact the Trademark Assistance Center at TrademarkAssistanceCenter@uspto.gov
Current Location: 650 -Publication And Issue Section
Date In Location: 2010-10-05
LAST APPLICANT(S)/OWNER(S) OF RECORD
1. Dervaes Institute
Address:
Dervaes Institute
631 Cypress Avenue
Pasadena, CA 91103
United States
Legal Entity Type: Corporation
State or Country of Incorporation: California
Check out our great Denver Urban Homesteading web site's warning message: http://www.denverurbanhomesteading.com/
Amazing that they have to devote their resources to dealing with this sh*t. Just amazing.
iris lily
2-17-11, 11:27pm
Pretty amazing they got this phrase trademarked, and only as recently as 2008 if I reading that right.
Wasn't this the phrase that someone here was insistant that we should call a forum? She wanted all of her urban homesteading topics right there under one neat and tidy urban homesteading board. I thought it was dumb and still do, it's not like there are 5,000 posts here each day and she couldn't check out the few boards that might have relevant posts.
But that poster has gone by the wayside.
Greedy pricks. Use a hyphen... Urban Home-steading. Someone should trademark that and allow it to be used freely.
info@pathtofreedom.com
If you feel like expressing your sadness over this.
The Storyteller
2-18-11, 1:05am
Pretty amazing they got this phrase trademarked, and only as recently as 2008 if I reading that right.
Date of Status: 2010-10-05
Filing Date: 2008-09-19
So, they started the process in 2008, but the registration wasn't approved until October of last year.
ApatheticNoMore
2-18-11, 1:06am
•FREEDOM GARDENS®
then we'll call them victory gardens. Well really I prefer the term freedom but am not free to use it apparently. Or we will relish in the irony and call them SLAVERY GARDENS. Or we'll call them FRENCH gardens :D (freedom fries redux and it does sound nice, doesn't it?).
•PATH TO FREEDOM®
Why do I have an odd feeling that if a search was made of literature and speeches and the like that this phrase would turn up (though not as a noun). The path to freedom ® is paved with many sacrifices etc.. It's just seem such a stock turn of phrase. I suggest we use the term path to he double l instead (as a knowing and ironic and altogether unserious way to refer to all self sufficient suburban (lets be honest, that ain't truly urban) houses. Can we still use the term: suburban homestead? It's the accurate phrase, as the term urban is really used in sociology etc., it implies inner city density, so it is inaccurate for what they are talking about (kunstler's suburbs).
I think we should all use the phrase Urban Homestead ALL THE TIME! Email it. Tweet it. Set up FB groups with it in the title. Scatter it everywhere... it's a movement and a way of life, so let's spread it around.
Ok, as an experiment, I just set up a few Gmail accounts with a city name & urbanhomestead, so here is one: pasadenaurbanhomestead@gmail.com. I think I may email them form that one to ask why they're trademarking these phrases.
It's so incredibly weird!
ApatheticNoMore
2-18-11, 1:54am
Well belief in trademarks (that most corporate of all intellectual property. I mean they are mostly used to BRAND!) doesn't tend to go together with people who hate the capitalist system so much that they live their entire lives outside it but .... >8)
I think: so they could have sought various copyleft provisions if they were merely concerned with corporatization of the terms (as if that seems likely) but I think copyleft actually requires something more significant than 2 word phrases. It requires the type of thing you'd copyright. So for two word phrases you need a trademark, like you'd use for an advertising slogan :laff:
isn't it only a problem if they actually try to take down other folks who use the words "urban homesteading"?
see their recent blog post: there are lots of everyday words that are trademarked including "honeybee," "gardener," and "bicycling."
http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/17/who-owns-these-trademarks/
i'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one ...
Bizarre, indeed. Maybe the intended launching platform for their South American property development scheme, as described in this article:
http://julesdervaes.com/2009/07/telegraph-magazine-u-k-green-giants/
Lots of other interesting background in that article, for those who care to know -- have decided that they are not my cup of tea, and I will personally seek my URBAN HOMESTEADING information from other sources in the future. Think they will sue me?
lhamo
Thanks for the link, lhamo. That was an informative article; somehow the Dervaes' name and projects have become a commodity, at least in Jules' mind. I wonder if a commodity is only one if someone is willing to buy it? Evangelism can take many forms, I guess.
The Storyteller
2-18-11, 9:37am
These people are getting trounced in the news and blogosphere. And yes, as a matter of fact, they are sending out cease and desist orders and shutting down sites all over the Internet, so they do not deserve our benefit of the doubt. Even Slow Food International is criticizing this conceited, greedy, and ill-advised move.
My favorite quote so far comes from K. Ruby Blume, founder of The Institute of Urban Homesteading (http://www.iuhoakland.com/) in Oakland, CA: "Urban homesteading is a national movement that's happening in every state. The Dervaes family are part of that movement and have done their part to popularize it. But so have many many others. I disagree with ownership of a common use term that belongs to a popular progressive movement. And as long as our projects are distinguishable, why should we not all get to popularize urban homesteading which is a wonderful lifestyle and could save the world."
Source: http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/2011/02/urban_homestead_drama.php
The Storyteller
2-18-11, 9:40am
There is now an online petition at change.org that reads as follows:
================================================== =====================================
This is a petition to the Derveas Institute to cancel the Trademarks on "Urban Homestead" and "Urban Homesteading" in good faith from the urban homestead community. Noting that Urban Homesteading was addressed in the 1976 Article on the Integral House and an article in 1980 by Mother Earth News, the group has laid false claims on the rights to the term and their actions are noted as hostile to the spirit of the community.
Boycotts on their digital properties and physical goods will commence until the trademarks are legally cancelled by the Corporation.
P.S. Feel free to copy the letter below and email it to info@urbanhomestead.org if you wish to bypass the log in.
P.S.S. Please go and support the comapnies that were harmed in this fiasco. Visit the Take Back Urban Homesteading page on FB for details.
Source: http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading
oh yeah, it became official in 2010. that IS recent.
This will so majorly work against them they've got no idea, their little ecocrunchy heads will twirl with the backlash.
Woke up thinking about this again -- amazing. In what way were they being damaged by the use of the term which, you'll note from the petition, was in use for many years? The only answer is that they feel they can make more money through ownership, even with the enormous legal bills they must have right now. And they are willing to CAUSE enormous expenses to be incurred by others in the sustainability movement as they must change names, change stationery, create new web sites & facebook presences, etc. They seem to care little about that.
No money of mine will go to anything they create or support, I'm afraid. And though I hate to say it, seeing them experience bankruptcy as a result of this self-centered action would not upset me in the least.
The Storyteller
2-18-11, 10:28am
Another avenue:
"Take Back Urban Home-steading(s)" on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Back-Urban-Home-steadings/167527713295518?sk=wall
ApatheticNoMore
2-18-11, 11:58am
Suburban homesteading like I said :). But suburbia has bad connotations to some? Yea well, so be it to the Kunstler's of the world. Suburbia is still necessary for the type of thing they are doing. And more to the point suburbia exists, the built landscape has been built a certain way, we probably have to work with that to some degree at this point. It's not that all the farmland surrounding cities *should* have been turned into suburbs so much as that it has and we can certainly make use of that as best we can. Take back the term suburbia first and then take back suburbia :)
AustinKat
2-18-11, 12:19pm
Oh, I love when the intarwebz are roused to anger. ;-) I've just spent a vastly entertaining hour reading various blog posts on this, plus the "Take Back Urban Home-steading(s)" Facebook page. I think the Dervaeses have lost whatever credibility they might have had...
This is interesting to me because it might explain why a few weeks back when I was trying to get general info on farming in the city (since I better not use their phrase), I kept getting pushed to their website. I couldn't even find info for my area which has many such operations if I used that term along with it. You would think they would want to encourage this sort of movement rather than make it difficult to find information.
Good luck enforcing that one....
http://www.uhab.org/history
I have been a follower of their blog for about a year but recently I haven’t been reading the posts. They got kind of repetitive after a while. It wasn’t until a whole bunch of updates were posted over the last couple of days, that I saw what was happening. The main thing that rubs me the wrong way is their attitude, “well if we didn’t trademark it, then some big corporation would have.” While that does sound noble, why are they closing down Facebook communities and sending cease and desist letters to a local public library? They aren’t going after the “evil corporations” but people who were probably fans and supporters.
ApatheticNoMore
2-18-11, 10:34pm
Lots of other interesting background in that article, for those who care to know -- have decided that they are not my cup of tea, and I will personally seek my URBAN HOMESTEADING information from other sources in the future.
Hehehe, yea really, if the Daveas are what UH is (the law says they are), that background is the type of stuff to send people running away from suburban homesteading as fast as their legs can carry them. Heck might not even want to recycle after digging into it (i'm kidding of course about the recycling :laff:).
I don't know anything about this Urban Homesteader group, however, I do own my own trademark. Trademarks are very expensive and time consuming to get. When anyone goes through all the trouble involved in getting one, they tend to want to protect it. I do not own a big company, but when I chose the name for my business I wanted to ensure no one else trademarked that name, thus blocking me from using it. It is not a procedure one undertakes lightly. Like anything that anyone puts a lot of time, thought and effort into, one will understandably want to protect that.
Never mind the Kleenex... pass me a tissue. Silly.
It is not a procedure one undertakes lightly. Like anything that anyone puts a lot of time, thought and effort into, one will understandably want to protect that.
The Dervaes 'church' purposely trademarked a term that was already in wide use in thousands of different settings all over this half of the world. They were fully aware of that, knew that it would cause great inconvenience, confusion, and expense to others who have been using these common words for many years, and didn't care: they did it to make money. No one cares if they trademark their own name, their own book title, but to deliberately set out to control the use of a term that has entered common usage is purely for profit, and would be like trademarking "backyard chickens." Oh no, did I just give them another idea?
As my SIL, who is a blogger in Pasadena said, "The organic sh*t has hit the fan."
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_17417055?IADID=Search-www.pasadenastarnews.com-www.pasadenastarnews.com
Trademarking the phrases Urban Homestead & Urban Homesteading is like trademarking the phrase Gentleman Farmer. It's absurd!
The Storyteller
2-19-11, 12:15pm
Here are some other terms and phrases they are trademarking, thanks to a helpful soul on another site:
1 85146331 HOMESTEADVILLE TARR LIVE
2 85146323 BARNYARDS AND BACKYARDS TARR LIVE
3 85146313 LITTLE HOMESTEAD IN THE CITY TARR LIVE
4 77574809 3855377 URBAN HOMESTEAD TARR LIVE
5 77617201 3772777 ONE TROWEL REVOLUTION TARR LIVE
6 77668872 3672759 FREE THE SEEDS TARR LIVE
7 77642237 3668885 PATH TO FREEDOM TARR LIVE
8 77617213 3642895 REJECT RESIST REVOLT TARR LIVE
9 77617199 3700192 MY OTHER SUPERMARKET IS MY GARDEN TARR LIVE
10 77617197 3721041 REVOLUTION SOLUTION TARR LIVE
11 77554457 3630230 FREEDOM GARDENS TARR LIVE
12 77347399 3649358 THE PATH TO CHANGE TARR LIVE
13 77343450 3504188 PEDDLER'S WAGON TARR LIVE
14 77326578 3574715 HOMEGROWN REVOLUTION TARR LIVE
15 77326575 3702263 THE WORLD BEGINS AT YOUR DOOR TARR LIVE
16 77326567 3559738 GROW THE FUTURE TARR LIVE
17 77326565 3633366 URBAN HOMESTEADING TARR LIVE
18 77326559 3504141 PATH TO FREEDOM TARR LIVE
Stunning, really.
Some Trademark Trivia:
"A trademark does not mean, however, that no one else can use your word, phrase, or symbol in connection with any and all goods and services. It means only that somebody else can't use a similar trademark with similar goods or services. The key criterion: trademark infringement occurs when someone else's use of a trademark would likely cause confusion about the source of goods or services." Taken from: http://www.slate.com/id/2062607/
Some trademarked phrases:
"There's an app for that" - Steve Jobs
"That's hot" - Paris Hilton
"I'm lovin' it" - McDonalds
"Ask what you can do" - Harvard University
"Let's talk" - Avon
"You're fired" - Donald Trump
"Let's get ready to rumble" - Michael Buffer
"With glowing hearts" - Vancouver Olympic organizing committee
So all that money they've saved by being frugal.....this is what they're choosing to spend it on? Fascinating.
Some of these I can absolutely support. Others, such as the one we're discussing? Just sad. It evokes the same reaction I always get when someone who started out wholehearted and soulful becomes a media whore and begins acting like one.
The key criterion: trademark infringement occurs when someone else's use of a trademark would likely cause confusion about the source of goods or services."
Therefore the Dervaes' action implies that everyone who uses the term "urban homesteading" -- some since the 1970s -- has been infringing on their business, siphoning off their profits, piggybacking on their fame, much like putting "You're Fired" and a silhouette of Donald Trump on a hat to make money from it. Anyone who knows anything about the urban homesteading movement (and the support it has thrown behind the Dervaes') knows this is ridiculous logic. Their actions are not only egotistical, but insulting and sickening.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Back-Urban-Home-steadings/167527713295518
The epicenter of online action is at this FB group page. Fascinating.
The Storyteller
2-19-11, 3:54pm
I recommend we
REJECT RESIST REVOLT
Oh, wait. Can't do that. They trademarked it.
I think what frustrates me most is they beg for donations with a 'you can be a part of this movement too' attitude. Then they turn around and spend that donated money on this trademark issue to keep 'you' out of it.
Okay, this: http://altadenahiker.blogspot.com/2011/02/homestead-of-urban-variety.html
...made me laugh a loud, braying, healing laugh. Be sure to read the comments.
Thanks, Pug, for that link...I laughed, too, and it helps some to put the whole thing into a different perspective. Oops, perhaps I meant a Different Perspective (TM).
http://cackleberryfarm1.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/giving-credit-where-it-is-due/
Be gentle, folks. It is just my opinion.
I agree with Aspen. If you go to the Little Homestead in the City site - the news section - they state they are NOT suing any Urban Homestead or Urban Homesteading bloggers. They also state the have NOT sent "stop or pay up" letters to bloggers.
FYI you cannot get a Trademark just because you want to. You have to have a reason for it (ie. a company selling a product). With the internet it seems things go viral pretty quickly without much thought to the people involved. We are all pursuing a dream and it is very sad when one group of people finally achieve that dream that so many are so quick to try to knock them down (but that's just my humble opinion).
http://cackleberryfarm1.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/giving-credit-where-it-is-due/
Be gentle, folks. It is just my opinion.
You said "...While I can understand the comments about the trade marks, there have been many personal attacks that are ugly and hurtful... "
All of the comments I read are ABOUT their --choose one--hypocracy or arrogance or selfishness or naivity or greed in staking a claim on "Urban Homesteading." So if you deem others denigrating the Devaes' judgement in doing so as a "personal attack" then so be it. That's your right, but you are wrong.
I'll try to find the blog where I saw the comment, IL, but someone was actually ragging on Jordanne's speech impediment, accent, speech pattern, whatever--they made fun of how she speaks. Pissed me off. Takes credibility away from those who are protesting the trade marks---makes me wonder what they are truly protesting.
I'll try to find the blog where I saw the comment, IL, but someone was actually ragging on Jordanne's speech impediment, accent, speech pattern, whatever--they made fun of how she speaks. Pissed me off. Takes credibility away from those who are protesting the trade marks---makes me wonder what they are truly protesting.
Then that is wrong, you are right, but that is hardly the norm of the recent comments about this family's decision.
The actions that have damaged the larger UH community are these:
Getting Facebook to pull down at two sites that depend upon FB to reach their community. These are: The Institute of Urban Homesteading in Oakland, and Denver Urban Homesteading. The Dervaes family used their trademark ownership to cut off access to these communities. They also have sent letters to authors using the phrases Urban Homestead & Urban Homesteading - letters that don't have the specific cease & desist language, yet references legal action. The chilling effect is palpable, and folks are angry that their communications, reputations, communities and businesses have been disrupted by this move.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation will be representing the publisher of one of these books by authors Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen and their publisher, regarding their book The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City. A press release will be issued tomorrow about this.
At issue is this: Urban homesteading is a way of life practiced by many thousands, and has been in practice, and well documented, for over 100 years. It is not the intellectual property of one man or one family. Their claim is wrong, and further, is insulting to all who have small businesses that depend upon their practice and use of these descriptive phrases. Mr. Dervaes claims to be the person who created Urban Homesteading, and that is nonsense. He cannot be given "proper credit" because he didn't invent this way of life, and is not the sole practitioner. He is an artist and very accomplished; that is his credit.
IMHO, it's arrogant and insulting for him to claim this ownership of UH. He built a business which is his rightful property; he did NOT build the concept or practice of Urban Homesteading, and that is not his rightful property. People trademark ideas to make money off of them. The Dervaeses claim to ownership of the concepts UH is wrong, and their move to profit off of an international movement is so counter to the entire UH movement as to be breathtaking.
The bigger issue of what is intellectual property is a part of this conversation. So too is this: how can one own a way of life, and a very popular movement? What is a part of The Commons, and what is property? Can I trademark the phrase Home Cooking? And if I do, what rights do I have to limit its use?
The response they have gotten - the huge outcries, an immense organizing effort, legal representation to challenge his actions, and the mobilizing of people on FB, in blogs, and in the print media; from every state and several countries around the world is much more than mob mentality. The response they have gotten is in direct measure to the outrage being felt. Personal attacks are the exception, and are obviously not the thrust of the message. The Dervaes family would be well advised to take heed of the huge outpouring of anger and feelings of being betrayed, and back down. They are poised to lose all their credibility and many of their customers if they choose to dig in their heels.
Representative views & news.
http://bit.ly/eRxzJN
http://bit.ly/e9A9aT
http://goo.gl/fFDai
http://tinyurl.com/4tq2g47
he did NOT build the concept or practice of Urban Homesteading
I thought invention had more to do with copyright than trademark?
I will make this my last post on this forum, so please allow me to voice my opinion on this subject. While I had never heard of this family or their business until I read this thread, I do not want to be a part of any forum that allows a "mob" mentality to continue.
The company in question is living their "American dream". They had the smarts to figure out a way to do what they enjoy doing and what they are passionate about. As any business owner, you want to protect your assets. When a business choses a name and wants customer recognition, unless they trademark that name, any other business can come along, take that name and force them to choose another name. If you were walking in their shoes, any one of you would do the exact same thing this family did to protect their business. They did NOTHING illegal.
Many say that the family has threatened legal action against others. Are you sure about this? Their website says the contrary. Is this fact or myth? Many of us receive weekly emails from our "bank" telling us there is a problem with our account and all we have to do is input our account number and password and all will be well. We KNOW that it isn't really the bank who has emailed us. Do you really KNOW that the family sent the supposed emails out?
Rather than get a lynch mob ready to hang these people who have done nothing illegal, why not use your purported anger and change the laws? If it angers you so much to allow people to trademark expressions, then change it. That is what civilized people do.
I won't be part of any group that perpetuates what accounts to school yard bullying. I hope those of you who are so angry about this issue will refocus your anger to change what you view as a problem with the trademark law.
Good luck and go in peace.
Trademarking the phrases Urban Homestead & Urban Homesteading is like trademarking the phrase Gentleman Farmer. It's absurd!
What does TARR LIVE mean?
These are incredible. I mean really, The Path to Change is probably used by social groups all over the ENglish speaking world.
I don't know that the concern is if what they did was "legal," I think the conversation is more about if it was ethical. It my experience these are two very different things.
Did they get really bad legal advice? Were they pushed by a shyster trademark lawyer into this, convincing them that with the economic downturn (and Michele O putting veggies on the roof of her big white house) their way of life was going to skyrocket in popularity?
Makes ya wonder.
But agreed, the Trademark laws are certainly to blame to allow this.
I had to pursue trademark status for something at work, something I personally though was stupid to trademark, and our company attorney was very cautious and discouraging about being abe to trademark a phrase that was essentially two common words put together. He wasn't hopeful. We ended up abandoning this plan ddue to a variety of factors.
Redfox, I did not mean to imply that everyone taking an anti-Dervaes stand on this issue was in with the mob-mentality. It is just that there are those who have gone overboard, become hateful and have made personal attacks. I know Miss Dervaes has been upset by these personal attacks and I don't blame her.
My personal opinion: I can completely see the trade marking of everything except urban homestead(ing). However, with the outrage and outcries, there has not been a chance for further, calm explanation. I wish to understand the whole thing and will not make a judgement until I have all the facts.
Redfox, I did not mean to imply that everyone taking an anti-Dervaes stand on this issue was in with the mob-mentality. It is just that there are those who have gone overboard, become hateful and have made personal attacks. I know Miss Dervaes has been upset by these personal attacks and I don't blame her.
My personal opinion: I can completely see the trade marking of everything except urban homestead(ing). However, with the outrage and outcries, there has not been a chance for further, calm explanation. I wish to understand the whole thing and will not make a judgement until I have all the facts.
No worries, Aspen. You & I agree completely that character assassination and personal attacks are just not okay! Ever. I am deeply sorry that anyone has been personally attacked, especially regarding personal traits - that's really just indecent. FYI, many of us have called that behavior out when it surfaces. I've spoken up about the questions raised about Mr. Dervaes' religious beliefs, which are out of the mainstream, emphatically reminding people that we have the right to religious freedom in this country. Personal attacks are not the norm in the writings I've seen.
My stance is this: the choice by the Dervaes family to trademark these phrases was in stark contrast to what they and the entire modern urban homesteading movement has been about, as well as what Mr. Dervaes has espoused in print and seemingly took the exact opposite action in private, then moved publicly to reinforce his privatization. Rather as if an animal rights activist began to sell for butcher the very critters he had heretofore been rescuing. Privatizing for profit a way of life in a manner that endangers others livelihoods, publications and speech is just wrong. Lots of things are legal that are wrong. And, the claim to title of the creator of the modern UH movement is simple BS. Leads me (and many others) to doubt the claimant's veracity. Mr. Dervaes is a master at his craft, and has created many fine examples that are innovative, making him talented, not the creator of an entire movement, as he claims.
Two things are resulting: the trademarks will be legally challenged according to the system in place to do so, and the marketplace of ideas and commerce are reacting, and powerfully. The results are yet to be seen regarding the legal challenges, though with the Electronic Frontier Foundation taking the lead, it is clearly going to be a high profile issue. Things are changing in intellectual property law, and this is a part of that changing landscape, in my view. The marketplace of ideas has generated a robust online presence on Facebook and in the blogging world. So it goes when the sensibilities of a group of passionate people are deeply offended, and who feel betrayed by someone they once looked up to.
I can imagine that Mr. Dervaes is pretty shocked by the outpouring of anger, sadness, sense of betrayal, and ultimately of the search for justice coming from the UH community. There are two ways to be in this world - to be right, or to be in relationship. He is clearly choosing to be right; the consequences are that he is being ousted from the UH movement he helped develop. He would be wise to regard the damage to the relationships he's built over the last decade that has happened by his actions. Again, they may be legal, but are they smart?
The marketplace of business is reacting in as yet unknown ways, except for the fact that the groups whose pages were downed have lost both revenue and precious time doing their primary jobs, while they contend with the fallout of this hijacking of The Commons, and these business owners are taking actions to remedy that. In addition, I have seen many, many former fans of the Dervaeses de-link their websites and blogs from the Dervaeses. I am assuming, though have no data, that this means a drop in business for the Dervases. It's business - market feedback.
All in all, clearly a tipping point has been reached, and action is being mobilized. As my sister (a therapist) says, the reaction one gets is the communication one made. The gauntlet of private ownership of long and dearly held concepts in the Commons was thrown down, and the larger community is standing up to the challenge.
Redfox, you have expressed yourself so well and lucidly that I had to compliment you.
I'm with you, Redfox. It would have been enough, right, just, and fair, simply to COPYRIGHT HIS PERSONAL WRITINGS, and request proper citation when such writings are quoted.
flowerseverywhere
2-21-11, 12:02pm
Bizarre, indeed. Maybe the intended launching platform for their South American property development scheme, as described in this article:
http://julesdervaes.com/2009/07/telegraph-magazine-u-k-green-giants/
Lots of other interesting background in that article, for those who care to know -- have decided that they are not my cup of tea, and I will personally seek my URBAN HOMESTEADING information from other sources in the future. Think they will sue me?
lhamo
If you haven't read this article you should. It is fascinating. A father with his three grown children living at home and working 80 hour weeks and earning about $40,000 from the website, donations and produce sales. They certainly march to the beat of a different drummer.
Did they get really bad legal advice? Were they pushed by a shyster trademark lawyer into this, convincing them that with the economic downturn (and Michele O putting veggies on the roof of her big white house) their way of life was going to skyrocket in popularity?
Entirely possible, I suppose. But there is still time for them to do the right thing (getting the yanked Facebook accounts reinstated would be a terrific sign of goodwill, if they truly did mean well and have been 'misinterpreted' as they're claiming up and down). They've shown no signs of this yet. Maybe they'll come around.
Until then, my opinion of their actions won't change. Schoolyard bully I am not. Schoolyard bodyguard? Possibly.
ApatheticNoMore
2-21-11, 1:13pm
Yea found the article scary (this comes under the heading personal attack). But to each their own.
The criticism they got mostly comes from two things: 1) enforcing what really an ex-post facto law against people who already had books and websites using the term for a long time prior. 2) perhaps the fact that *some* of the urban homesteading movement is somewhat communitarian in basic attitude (yea there are words I am avoiding here because they wouldn't add much). And so choosing a silly privatization (not even a copyright on a book or something but 2 words) rather than to share an idea and encourage your peers is just wtf.
here is the press release from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They state this situation very well.
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/02/riding-fences-urban-homestead-trademark-complaints
And the official letter stating the legal position:
http://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf
OK, maybe posting the article and the comments I did on it could be considered "personal attack", but
1) The article was posted prominently on Jules Dervaes' personal website, so it didn't seem like digging around for dirt
2) Same with their religious stuff, though since this broke much of it has been taken down.
I do think both the article and the religious background point to aspects of the Dervaes family history/dynamic that are not necessarily readily evident on their UH-focused sites, so worth taking note of. The fact that they are taking down much of the religious site material also raises questions for me. Why take it down now, when it has been out there for years? If you really believe it, why not leave it out there for all to see. Anyway, I agree that making attacks on appearances or personal quirks is underhanded, and that is not something I would consider appropriate in this context. But I do find the religious background to be relevant and worth examining. I admire them for what they have achieved in the past with their UH efforts, but question the motivation behind it and whether they are really interested in building/supporting a forward-looking, community-based movement or simply laying the groundwork for something else entirely.
lhamo
I'm with you Ihamo. I've followed this family's story for a few years. At first I was really impressed with what they've accomplished on their small property. The website that I first started viewing was informative and inspiring. But it seemed like in the last year there was a shift toward getting people to donate, pay for viewings of the documentary about them, drumming up demand for paid lectures and selling all sorts of stuff on line.
Where I think the religious aspect is relavent to the conversation about the motives behind the trademarking issues, is that everything they do is under tax exempt status. Their whole endeavor is under the name "The Dervaes Institute" which I knew was tax exempt but what I didn't know was that the Institute is actually listed in the tax exempt category of "churches" which offers the highest protection with regard to paying taxes. I don't understand how an concern that is selling high priced produce to top flight restaurants and various other items through their online shop can get away without paying sales taxes like everyone else because they've declared themselves a church. I get that their outreach workshops and lectures can be considered educational and therefore have no problem with a certain level of tax exempt status. But I think what bothers me and probably rubs others the wrong way about that and the trademarking issue is that it seems the major issue for this family has shifted to maximizing income, while they are selling the idea of making do with less.
I have no problem with them maximizing income. Ask for donations, make money through the documentary, whatever kind of passive income you want.
But don't wreck other peoples' livelihoods in the process. Don't lay claim to something that isn't YOURS to make money on (especially on the backs of others who have sent the aforementioned donations to you) That's where it crosses the line for me. Capitalism I get. This kind of damaging territorialism I can't condone.
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