View Full Version : A struggle of the heart...
*THIS IS ONLY MY OWN STRUGGLE. No intention to offend ANYONE. I truly believe you are to live as you please."
What do you do when your beliefs (talking religious/spiritual) change and people won't let you be you?
I was raised Catholic and I did enjoy it for the most part but wandered away around 14-15 to explore a more spiritual side to life. I studied Buddhism, The Bible from a different point of view, Karma and life energy, etc...I then came back to the church, this time as a Born Again. I was feeling very lost and I felt happy but still not fulfilled and I would stand there thinking I am a bad person because I wasn't getting it. I walked this walk for many years but as of late, have been questioning a lot. I feel a little bit stifled and enclosed, too many rules and not enough people abiding by them. I have bounced around Churches and really have become disillusioned. I never felt right just going to Church once a week or celebrating on only a few days a year but instead believe in living a Christ-like or Spiritual life EVERYDAY. I feel very uncomfortable in any situation that is too one sided, no matter which way it bends. Trying to find that peaceful harmony. This way of thinking perplexes many I know. I do love Jesus but I also believe in karma and just trying to be a good person and spread a happy vibe. I have several people who take issue with this. They even take issue with the fact that I pray and meditate and practice yoga and a zen life. They say I am worshipping an idol and ignoring Jesus. I am really struggling with trying to reconcile this.
As y'all know, I am going through a lot right now. I am questioning everything, including my own beliefs. I don't think religion or spiritual or whatever one believes in is one size fits all. If anyone has some sage advice or has gone through, please let me know, even if you offline email me.
MamaM,
are you trying to reconcile other people's opinions with that which you seem to be already at peace?
I'm a former Roman Catholic and now I consider myself a kind of "new eyes, honorary" Catholic; a kind which 99.99% of Catholics would consider a non-Catholic. I have great respect for the teachings of Jesus and they are frequently obscured, mistranslated, misinterpreted and misunderstood. How do I know? I don't. All I know is that many seers, prophets, mystics and wisemen from spiritual traditions the world over have common themes and they can be found in the Bible (although many are not obvious). That's enough proof for me, especially since these themes resonate so strongly with me and apparently billions of other people. There are also ideas in the Bible that seemingly contradict those themes.
Language can be very slippery and one can usually find what one is looking for. There is a quote in the Bible from the book of Job (I think) in which God claims to have created evil, among other things. Now, many Biblical scholars and theologians find ways of interpreting that in a way that preserves God's beneficent status. But they don't seem to feel that 'I am the way and the light and the kingdom of God can only be had through me' (I'm sure you know the exact quote I'm referencing), needs any interpretation that is beyond it's superficial meaning. That's just as it should be because people need the safety and security of what they believe and I wouldn't try and steal it from them. I just have to look deeper.
If you're questioning everything, you believe in Karma, you don't think religion is a "one size fits all", I'd like to suggest that you are no longer a Christian in the strictest sense because one of their core tenets is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your only savior. I don't see that Jesus would have been exclusive regardless of what any scripture says, but that's just silly me.
Again for me though, it's best to just "bless" or at least acknowledge those who may be "persecuting" you. Your searching is unsettling to them and it can be very painful and scary when one's most sacred beliefs are being challenged just by being in proximatey to someone who seems to be a traitor. If they told me I'm ignoring Jesus, I might just say they're right and thank them because really, when you're meditating or learning about Zen you're not paying any attention to Jesus. But that's also true for any Christian who does anything in his life. Not ignoring Jesus is quite impossible. Even the Pope turns his attention to what he will eat, when he'll quit, when he'll go to sleep; we all are a bit self absorbed. :)
For your own inner peace I thought I'd also point out that all the crosses and statues of Jesus are false idols in that they are not him, even the word Jesus the word and Christ the title are only symbols of the divine. In some traditions there is no images of God allowed at all.
I just saw a documentary on Thomas Merton and if I were you I'd check into his writings and life. He was a Trappist monk and he is considered by many to be a modern prophet. Anyway, he was interested in other traditions of the East in addition to Christianity.
The divine in me bows to the divine in you.
Sounds to me as if you both have the makings of a Quaker.
I was raised in a Catholic family and attended Catholic school for a few years. It was never right for me. It took me many years to find my spiritual home. The UU church I attend has as its motto that they ask all to think, not all to think alike.
Spirituality is a very individual path. I agree with Xmac that there is probably something the questioners find to be threatening in your path. That doesn't mean it is wrong for you; it means that they don't understand it.
My DH has some relatives who go to an evangelical church. They think UUs are a cult. Needless to say, we don't talk religion with them. We don't agree with their way and they don't see ours, and it simply isn't worth the loss of family harmony to try to discuss it. Sometimes the river is too wide.
I think you might find http://lifestream.org and http://thegodjourney.com/ helpful.
Wayne is a good friend of mine and his teaching has helped many people who are wrestling with the types of things you described.
You can read one of his books here for free if you want to get an idea about him . . .
http://www.jakecolsen.com/contents.html
He also co-wrote / published The Shack.
- Kevin
I have been and continue to make the same type of journey that you have described. I totally agree with many of the things Xmax has stated. For me, personally, I'm finding that experiencing my own spiritual journey and that the closer I get to my own spirituality... the easier it is for me to deal with other's and their own spirituality. I'm not sure how to explain this so that it makes sense, but... I find that other's disagreeing with my spiritual journey is really okay, as maybe this disagreeing is becoming part of their own journey...???
Sorry... not explaining well. Suffice to say - your spirituality is just that - YOURS! Enjoy your journey to where ever it takes you! Blessings to you.
flowerseverywhere
3-1-13, 2:52pm
I grew up in one of the Roman Catholic Dioceses that has been rocked for years by the sex scandals. As a child it didn't really make sense to me. I personally knew some of the victims of the abuse as I worked in mental health when things really hit the fan. This shook my faith and I became involved in the Methodist church because I was not willing to let go. It was a much better fit but as time went by I began to question all religion. Who has the one god, out of the many that is the right one for you? Only you can decide. I continued to study different philosophies and religions, and even read the bible.
The end of my journey was atheism. The funny thing was once I accepted my beliefs I became a much more caring, loving, and generous person just because, not because it was expected by any theology.
As I continue to read history I am astounded by how many wars, how much greed and hate has been spread by people fighting over religion, even to this date. I continually wonder why it matters so much to people what other people believe in, as your own relationship with your God is only between you and your God. All the public display in the world means nothing if you don't follow the path of goodness regardless of your faith.
I'm irreligious, and very much enjoy living in a region where being unchurched is common and proselytizing is mostly frowned upon, so it isn't surprising that I don't understand people pushing their sectarian beliefs on others--especially forcefully. How "spiritual" is that? You'll have to either learn how to fend these individuals off or cut them loose, I suppose.
Thank you all for sharing your journeys. I appreciate it.
I am going to remove myself from "organized" religion for awhile and have a go at just focusing on my own beliefs, morals and ethics and see where that takes me. Action over pretending. :)
awakenedsoul
3-1-13, 4:28pm
I live in a very high pressure/religious area, and I totally understand what you are saying. I've had people tell me that I should go to church on Sunday. (I spend an hour or two on spiritual practice daily.) I don't talk about it to people around here, but because I'm a yoga teacher, they believe I'm going to hell. I've done a lot of reading and studying of Eastern and Native American spirituality. I guess it's changed my aura and some people find me a threat. There's a definite clash. I believe that "Truth is One, Paths are Many." I also really enjoy spending time in nature and absorbing that energy. It's incredible how controlling some people are when it comes to religion. It's like an addiction. (Pushers.) I've even considered moving to an area that is more open to alternative medicine, etc. When I lived in Santa Fe, NM, I felt very comfortable. It was a much more open minded environment.
Luckily I, like Jane, live in an area where there is not a lot of pressure to hold one set of beliefs over another. But every once in a while it becomes clear to me:
Fundamentalist Christians are sure I'm going to hell.
The Catholic faith wants me back.
Muslims think I'm an infidel, I'm sure.
Even the UU's would like it if I'd come to their church (nicely)
But really, I believe in following my own spiritual path. For one thing, I don't "worship." I can understand why it's comforting for a group to gather in a church and spend an hour or two singing/saying/praying/chanting "You're so awesome, God! You're the best!! We worship you! We owe everything to you!" (which is how all religious ceremonies feel to me - just my own strange reaction to it) But I think MY path is to act in a Christlike way, sharing love and service in a way that Jesus would find pretty cool if he and I met for coffee (or wine) somewhere, but not necessarily "worship." My place is out with the people, not in a building.
Anyway, sending you hugs to find your own way, MamaM. My spirituality is a cornerstone of my life; I wouldn't want someone in my face telling me I needed to choose theirs in order to be accepted.
"But I think MY path is to act in a Christlike way, sharing love and service in a way that Jesus would find pretty cool if he and I met for coffee (or wine) somewhere, but not necessarily "worship." My place is out with the people, not in a building."
YES!YES!YES!
My thing is I try and I fail at times, but I try to be a good person, help others (and animals) :), try to be good to the earth and environment, raise a happy and wonderful little boy and just try to do better and most of all, be happy. I think if Jesus sat down with me, I think he would be ok with how I am doing. SO how can people sit in judgement of me just because I don't sit in a pew each week or adhere to certain rules?
And can someone explain the yoga thing and hell because I don't get it? I look at yoga as being a health/stress and spiritual side and then your religion well covers your religious side. To me they are separate for the most part with some overlapping.
And can someone explain the yoga thing and hell because I don't get it? I look at yoga as being a health/stress and spiritual side and then your religion well covers your religious side. To me they are separate for the most part with some overlapping.
Oh, hey, that one's easy.
Anyone who thinks you're going to hell because you do yoga has the IQ of a bucket of hair, and needs to be removed from your life, by force if necessary, preferably yesterday, so you don't get any of that on you. Seriously, that's among the stupidest things I've ever heard, and I've heard some whoppers.
Rock on, MamaM! You're doing fine!
Ha...a bucket of hair...LOVE IT!!!
Thank you- MAMAM IS ROCKIN' ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, that made me laugh!:devil:
awakenedsoul
3-1-13, 8:18pm
The people here think it's Satanic. (Especially if you chant and meditate.) Oh well...I once rented a dance studio from a woman who told people, "awakenedsoul goes to church every Sunday." She repeated this to me. I didn't even bother to correct her. (I haven't been to church in many many years.) I did enjoy sitting in the beautiful churches in Europe when I was traveling, though. Sometimes I sing old songs from Vacation Bible School on my mountain hikes with my dogs. I just can't deal with the high pressure people.
Okay I have to share my fave buddhist writer who was just talking about this, not sure if it applies but I really like his clarity about things.
http://hardcorezen.info/yoga-is-the-new-satanism/1701
I am finding my place finallly, and I kinda made it up as I went however I felt the need for other people and I am respecting that now. It took some wrong turns to get to the people part, and I have been mentally sent to hell a few times by other people. Still your gut will tell you when you are faking it, big time.
About 10 years ago, I was really into yoga because it made my body hardcore for the military. My sister, being of her own religious thinking, used to leave me tracts on how Yoga was making me worship the devil. I just wanted a tight butt and awesome arms.
flowerseverywhere
3-2-13, 5:43pm
I was thinking about this today and one thing I want to add. When you take your own spiritual journey an important thing is to respect others spiritual journey as well. As in people will sometimes tell me they will pray for me. It would be rude if I asked them not to, because it gives them solace and comfort. I would not make plans that impacted on others observance, such as planning a family birthday party on Saturday evening if I was aware someone in the family had religious plans during that time, or serve meat on Friday or pork to someone who abstained for religious reasons. It is two way street, and I am very respectful of others religious beliefs and observances, unless of course some of these harmful terrorist types.
Oh..I am respectful unless they personally attack me. All I am asking is they respect mine.
flowerseverywhere, sounds like we see it similarly, although I endorse some of the more radical teachings of Jesus and Buddha.
The story and teachings of Jesus are significant because he taught by example to love one's enemy. His kind regard or respect was rarely conditional (if ever) on what the other did or did not do. He accepted death from the "terrorist" Romans. The Buddha taught the same. When an attempt was made on his life he did not retaliate. He said once that 'even if someone is cutting off both your arms and legs, if you harbor even one thought of ill will towards your attacker, you're no follower of mine'.
Compassion for the offender is what is possible if the offender or attacker is seen as suffering. One who doesn't see them as suffering, is suffering themselves and first might want to find compassion for their own inner turmoil. This is so easily found in our own experience: the more our suffering increases the less capacity we have for consideration of others, and the more profound and sustained that suffering becomes the more it is internalized and not easily seen by the casual observer or the experiencer themselves. And of course, the reverse is true.
This is ignorance I engage in on a daily basis (especially when I drive). It's the easiest illusion to believe: us and them. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't....won't?
flowerseverywhere
3-3-13, 2:29pm
Oh..I am respectful unless they personally attack me. All I am asking is they respect mine.
I hope you didn't think that I was being negative towards you in any way. Quite the opposite. I only wanted to express some of the mistakes I made in the past.
It is hard to make changes, and a long journey to find the right path. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Oh no!! NOT at all. : ) I completely get what you are saying. Thank you.
Sounds to me as if you both have the makings of a Quaker.
I love that you said this. I was raised Catholic and Baptist and grew up not liking the hypocrisy of organized religions with all of their hoops to jump thru and rules and such. So many people pontificating on what I had to do to be a good Christian or person, all according to THEIR beliefs.
I grew up and became Quaker. Finally a religion that made sense! Each person is respected for their own way of believing and worshiping. Each person is acknowledged to have their own inner light and no one has to have a preacher/priest/middleman telling us what God's will is for us. Each person has a unique viewpoint and perspective that is welcomed and respected and accepted. We all have something worthy to share and contribute. There are Quakers of all kinds, even Buddhist and agnostic Quakers All are welcome and none are judged. It is not for us to judge someone else's relationship with God and insist they have to believe as we do.
I despise the power struggles and judgmental ways of many religions. I hate the overly extravagant churches. The fact that the pope wears Prada shoes just galls me. I hate that they put him on some kind of pedestal when he is just a man, like everyone else.
I despise the power struggles and judgmental ways of many religions. I hate the overly extravagant churches. The fact that the pope wears Prada shoes just galls me. I hate that they put him on some kind of pedestal when he is just a man, like everyone else.
I totally hear you on the seeming inconsistencies between, say, very fancy churches and limited budgets for humanitarian projects and on the attention paid to politics rather than ministry. But if I meet someone who truly loves people and does his or her best for them, I don't care if they revere a guy wearing Prada shoes, a guy who unearthed inscribed plates in the hills, or trees and crystals. We need to allow people their paths to Truth and Love even if we don't appreciate every sight along their way. It's only when the trappings get in the way of Truth and Love that I have a problem.
Yes, this brings up some sensitive things for me as well. I am compassioned out in a sense. I am thankfully not around people who are regliously judgmental at this point in my life, however I have spent many years in places where I was treated quite badly while respecting others beliefs. And then what do you do? Keep on acting well rather than lose your temper and blow up at them, it wouldn't help anyway, but it can be draining.
Lots of metta and self care
Yes..draining..that is a good word. I alway hear "Come to service to fill you up." Yet I come away tired and cranky and annoyed.
I came to Texas because it's beautiful here. I really do fit in here except for the religious supremacy I encounter. It all starts out good and then it goes down hill. So I decided to just float along while I figure things out.
+1 to Xmac and awakenedsoul (oops-from way back on Page 1--I didn't realize there were two more pages here)
I was raised Catholic and I, too, have found a lot of spiritual support in both Christianity and Buddhism. At the nexus of all the great religions are basically the same Truths, so I don't worry too much at the quibbling over doctrine or dogma. "The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon."
While some people reject Catholicism or Christianity because of the craziness that has happened in this world in the name of religion, I tend to focus on the contributions of the saints--and I use that term loosely. As Xmac said, Thomas Merton is one, but there are thousands of enlightened people from whom we can learn--they may have taken the mantle of Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever in their lives but it doesn't matter.
As for what other people tell you, my answer is a big so what.
One of my favorite sayings is "Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does."
As for the Pope... I briefly saw a news story on some of the potential candidates for the next Pope. Personally, I would love for them to select one of the candidates (non-caucasion) from Africa or South America.
decemberlov
3-5-13, 12:53pm
MamaM I just wanted to post a link to this book for you in hopes that you find some inspiration in it.
You can read the first few pages here:
http://www.amazon.com/Going-Home-Jesus-Buddha-Brothers/dp/1573228303#reader_1573228303
My mother is a devout Christian and thought my interest in Buddhism was not a very good thing at all. After reading this book, I asked her to do so as well. It has opened her eyes to a new perspective.
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