Discussing Sexuality with an 11 year old daughter.

[pcooley]

A friend of ours gave our daughter a book from Gurl.com called "Deal with It." I thought it was just a good introduction to becoming an adolescent girl, but there's more information in there than she really needs at this point.

I found that out when I went to fix her iPod and her browser opened to a hard core video site. Her Google search history would make a sailor blush. (Though it appears to be a two-day burst of research on her part).

I had a long talk with her this morning on our walk to school. She assured me that she doesn't want to do it, she just wants to know about it, but she was too embarrassed to ask me or her mother. I told her that I well remembered that pre-adolescent curiousity, and that the porn magazines that were drifting around middle school was the first time I felt I had any of my real questions answered, but that now, with the internet, the film available is much more damaging and the wrong way to learn about sexuality, and without the shame attached to actually having to stand in front of someone at a cash register and purchase it, it is reaching a point where it is damaging a large number of families and society as a whole. I also told her that learning about sexuality from pornography is about like learning to eat from videos of people stabbing cattle and ripping the meat from the bone with their teeth. I let her know that she will run into a wide range of opinion about pornography as she gets older but that ultimately, I felt that it was a damaging thing and presented images that we really don't need running through our heads as we go about our day.

I don't really know however, how to answer the curiosity she has. I hope the video she did see was enough to put her off sex until well after college.

The book, which I finally flipped through, has a little bit too much information for an eleven year old. There's a frank discussion of three way sex, for example. At the same time, it's a very well balanced and responsible book, as long as you aren't a member of the religious right. (Though it is certainly covering topics outside of my realm of experience.)

I think, maybe, the book is enough -- more than enough, but she's already read it -- for right now. But I want to honor her curiosity and maintain good communications in this particular area, though it did make for an awkward father/daughter chat.

Any suggestions?

[mattj]

I'm not sure I have much advice. Just popped in to comiserate I guess. I have two boys - 10 and 12. They have discovered porn on the internet. I'm pretty happy w/ the results of how I handled it so far. I told them (well, him... the oldest son was first and shared w/ his brother and the neighbor kids). I told him, "It's normal to be interested in that stuff but I think that you know you aren't ready for that yet." The other day he came home from school and went to a website his friends told him about... it was free porn. He shut it down right away, told me about it, and laughed about how his friends "pranked" him because they said it was a free game site.

I say get the book. If the "worst" thing in there is information on a three way it's pretty tame and probably useful - I assume it talks about the emotional difficulties involved?

[pcooley]

She already has and has read the book. The burst of "reasearch" happened after she read it, (and before her iPod got water damaged -- it's been returning to life slowly). The book does talk about emotional difficulties and making wise choices. As a father, of course, I would scream -- don't do it! don't even think about it! So it's good for her to have a more moderate, less emotionally involved voice. I have parental controls on the computers. It never occurred to me to put them on the iPod, but the parental controls are activated on there now.

[mattj]

Sounds like you are taking the right steps. Hi five for good parenting!

[Mrs-M]

The best advice I have for you PC, leave all female related sex talk to your wife, and you can concentrate on sex talk with the boys. (It really is easier). :) I know! :laff:

I went through many "moments" raising my six kids and at times thought to myself- heavens, what have I got myself into, yet now that the eldest are at an age where they're learning lots of things and they know lots of things, here's hoping THEY take the younger ones under their wings and guide them.

Is there any older girls/women in your family (cousins, nieces, favourite aunts, etc)? If so, then that would be a superb avenue to take. You should see how a few of my nieces open up to me! Sometimes I'm like- "shhhh"..., grab niece(s) by arm/arms gently and sit her/them down in a quiet corner so we can talk girl talk". :laff:

[redfox]

pcooley, her peers are already talking about 3 ways, and all the other variations that would make you blush, so this is not new information, I assure you (my kids are 27, 21 & 18). Here is a great approach: take this into a medical & self care context. If she's old enough - and she is, because she's actively information seeking - she needs to get into a female pediatrician who is a good one to talk about sexual health in the way that all health is discussed. It's very important to normalize sexuality, because that's how she can learn to make safe choices. Clue the pediatrician into the questions she has, so she is prepared to bring them up.

My neighbor, who I have known since she was 4, came to me last year at age 13 to ask me what diseases she could get from doing oral sex on boys. We talked about it, and I told her about Planned Parenthood. Context: she comes from an immigrant family who are conservative Catholics. She's being raised by a single mom who has struggled to support her kids, and works at least 2 jobs - mom is never home, and her kids have all run wild. SHe is the only daughter too. Yesterday, she came to me to ask me how she could tell if she was pregnant. Now 14, she reported having drunk sex with 5 guys last month. I am CLEARLY concerned that she was sexually assaulted, and again I told her about PP. We discussed her cycles - she has no knowledge of the biology of conception & her fertility cycle - and I'm probably taking her to a clinic this week.

I share this for two reasons. One, your daughter is talking to you! That in and of itself is a huge win. Second, my sister once told me that the earlier you open up a topic with your child, the easier it is to talk about, because you can always reference the prior conversation, the door is always open. So, you can talk to a 3 year old in appropriate language about how cigarettes are bad, and keep sharing this, so that when they are, say, 10, you can use that context to start talking about other drugs.

My 14 year old neighbor clearly felt safe enough to come back to me to ask about pregnancy risks. I am going to help her and keep her confidentiality, because she is super high risk for pregnancy, STI's and being raped, if none of these have already happened. Please pray for her well-being. She has a long road ahead of her...

WHen my step-daughter, now 21, became sexually active at age 17, I whisked her away to her doctor and then to PP. I also asked a dear family friend (female) who is much closer in age to her to show her how to put a condom on a guy. When my friend said yes, I sent them both upstairs with a box of condoms & a banana. They spent about 2 hours talking about sex, and my friend made her practice until she got the hang of it. They both came downstairs grinning and giggling. When my SD turned 18, I gave her a sex-postivite sex package containing these things: a vibrator and lots of batteries, a book about how to have great sex that my younger friends recommended, some medically healthy lube, and a ton of condoms. I also have made sure she gets her contraception, and I pay for it! She is 3rd generation daughter of a teen mother, and we were determined to keep her pregnancy-free until she decided if/when have kids. So far, so good...

I applaud your parenting, and encourage you to take some risks with her in sharing information. She will let you know when it's too much. And, you're exactly the right person to coach her and model for her what a good man is - someone who is open and listens, and shows they care. That will benefit her so much.

[mattj]

Tangent... just wanted to say to Redfox that I love the Rumi quote in the sig.

"Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious." ~Rumi

[razz]

Dads can be the best teachers about sex since it will be with men that most sex experiences will occur. Dads can help set the boundaries of what is appropriate behaviour from a male provided there is free discussion with their daughters. Same thing with moms and sons.

My mother was the worst person for me to discuss anything personal as our personalities were so opposite and I was always wrong or so I was told. I could tell my dad anything by contrast and it was taken with courtesy and respect. He would think about it for a while and give me his insight. Very helpful.
Paul you are handling this very well and it will all come together over the teen years when the kids need to talk about all kinds of things.

[leslieann]

It is really okay to say what you think about teens and sex. I think it is good for a kid to hear that you think waiting to have sex (waiting until you are grown up, until you can be responsible for the outcomes, waiting until it is really right for you....whatever) is a good idea. I told my kids that I thought teens were too young to manage the feelings around being sexually active, and I suggested that they think about all sorts of things while they were making their own decisions around their sexuality and sexual expressiveness. It isn't just about preventing pregnancy and STDs, but also about preventing broken hearts, damaged self-esteem, and diminished self-respect. I know that a lot of kids think oral sex isn't sex, but honestly, if you are engaged in that behaviour and not feeling anything, then you have shut yourself down a lot, and THAT concerns me, actually, quite a bit. Sex arouses powerful emotions; you need to have a well developed sense of self to contain all of that without either spilling over or shutting down.

Talk a LOT, Paul, because she's given you the opportunity. By the way, I like your metaphor for porn. It can be hard to imagine that sex can be beautiful if your experience is porn.

Good fathering, there!

[Susan]

When I was a teen, I did not have anyone I could talk to either. My parents were definitely not going to enlighten me and the film in elementary school was just ridiculous. I went to the public library and did my own research. Then I bought a copy of "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask" and it was very helpful. I continued to research and soon, friends who could not talk to their parents were coming to me. We had many deep discussions on sex and relationships and when and why to have sex.
And yes, as I goat older, I found out that it was easier to talk to my dad than my mom. He is much less judgemental.

[Wildflower]

Paul, I think you're doing a great job with your DD. Keeping the lines of communication open and not reacting harshly to what you found on her iPod is to be commended. Not alot of Dads of daughters would have reacted so calmly....
My DDs knew all the basics of sex at 11, as far as I knew anyway. But the thought of them knowing about more explicit sex or seeing porn at that age would have made me cringe....

[Kat]

I don't have children yet (well, one in the oven) but this part of parenting definitely scares me. I think it is important for parents to openly communicate with their children about sex in ways that are age appropriate. At the same time, we have to remember that kids are getting involved in sex younger and younger all the time. It's uncomfortable to discuss, yes, but do you want your child to hear it straight from you or piece together (mis)information from locker room talk and pornography? The tricky part is not damaging future sexuality by making it dirty or shameful while at the same time encouraging kids to wait.

And I agree that a male perspective can be helpful for females. My DH was involved with our church's high school youth group for several years. We once had a night dedicated to sexuality. I and another female leader took the girls while her husband and mine took the boys. Then my husband ventured over to answer questions the girls had from a male perspective. He was pretty blunt (not in an inappropriate way, just honest and straighforward). The girls loved it. After he left, they said, "I never knew boys thought that way." The parents loved it, too--many of them came up to DH later and told him how much they appreciated his honesty and willingness to discuss those topics that are often embarrassing or uncomfortable. So in that case, it was good for the girls to hear from a guy. They don't always realize how differently they view things.

[Zzz]

Trust me. You would prefer she get exposed to this info through a book and discussions with an adult than from her schoolmates. At least then WHEN (not IF) they are discussing these matters she will have some factual information.

This is not the 80s, 70s, 60s (pick your prior decade). When my son was in middle school every topic under the sun was discussed at school. Students not only DISCUSSED but had sexual "aids" and toys on school property. Oral sex, hand jobs, and three ways are mild in comparison to some of the topics that will come up in discussions between students...

[creaker]

I think providing good information sources and being open to providing answers and feedback (even when it's embarrassing and a bit painful) are key. There's just so much accessible information, misinformation, porn out there now, I think parents are stuck in a role they didn't have to do as much preinternet - help their kids interpret and process the massive amount of information available to them in a constructive, healthy way.

"Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask" was the basis of most of my sex education - I found it hidden in my parent's room (don't ask - I was young), which was helpful to me because my parents never talked about those issues, but it would have been helpful if I could have approached them with questions.

[Gardenarian]

Check out the library, Dewey call number 612.66 for books about sexuality for girls. Also lots of good stuff on menstruation, cycles, etc.

[Anne Lee]

There's a huge difference between sexually explicit talk amongst kids and seeing internet porn. Like it or not, seeing a mediated experience normalizes and legitimizes behavior to kids whether they realize it or not.

I don't think that one incident will do much lasting damage. However, I would put filters on her computers ASAP and leave them there until you are no longer responsible for her browsing.

[bagelgirl]

I may be coming from the conservative side here, but I agree with Anne Lee. Put some controls on her electronic devices. Discussing sexuality is vastly different from letting her see porn. Also I do believe a book describing three way sex is inappropriate for an eleven year old girl.