View Full Version : So annoyed with recycling
Today DH confirmed with a city garbage worker that our carefully sorted, stored, and bundled recycling debris is going EXACTLY TO THE SAME PLACE as the other garbage. It had been a rumor for a while, and the city worker confirmed it.
This is the latest act is a long saga of recycling stupidity.
Our household had been paying a private company to come haul away our recyclables, we did that for about ten years. That worked fine, the few people who valued this paid for it, a private entrepreneur made money, those who didn't value it didn't trouble themselves to recycle, win/win.
Then, the city decided to get into the recycling business and made it "mandatory." (That is a laugh since garbage crime is committed daily especially in the ghetto neighborhood where my flower garden is.) So the city didn't raise our taxes for garbage service, instead it tacked a fee onto the water bill and installed recycling requirements.
Now that's by the wayside since the contract the city had with the recycle expired. My guess is that not enough people were recycling. That small entrepreneur is out of business. Lose/lose.
I've been fed up with recycling (after decades) for some time now. I'd like to think that actual recycling is going on here--judging by bins out at roadside, it is--and I hope that all the extra effort is doing some good for the environment. But I have a pile of Styrofoam that has to be delivered twenty miles away, a pile of electronics that need to be schlepped ten miles in another direction, rules that change every couple of months (no shredded paper/shredded paper OK in recycle bin in clear plastic bag/shredded paper should be toted to a third party two towns away/shredded paper should be added to yard waste), neighborhood hazardous waste drop-off events that never seem to take what I need to get rid of. Really, I'm sick of the whole thing.
Those mismanaged efforts do a lot of harm. It is so disheartening to see them happen but difficult to know what to do about them or how to prevent.
That is so distressing. The city in which I live is committed to making recycling work. The hazardous waste disposal system runs drop-off days most months. The other stuff, like the old and rusted paint cans I had last year, were handled by me taking them to the processing place, where the guys there insisted on removing them from my car.
Whilst separating the recyclables from the regular trash is mandatory, there are so many places where you can take cans, paper, metal, stuff like that, and sell them. Electronics can be taken to the local Goodwill store, where they are picked up by a recycle company for free, who then give a portion of the recovered precious metals and other components back to Goodwill.
It can be an occasional pain, and I never realized how lucky we are here.
Recycling can be a difficult business in which to turn a reliable profit. Companies go out of business, companies enter the business, haulers quit unprofitable areas, they oftentimes can find someone to purchase a given commodity (like #7 plastics) and then that company decides they've had enough, or goes out of business too..... It's super super volatile. Entire batches of one commodity can be contaminated by some lazy idiot who can't take the time to read, or a company too stupid to properly/clearly keep people apprised of the changes in recycling rules. Ick. Not a business I'd like to be in.
What YOU'RE talking about, I.L., is a damned shame, well beyond spoiled people wanting it to be made easy for them, like the recycling concierge is going to come to their doorstep to take exactly what they want to get rid of today (my next door neighbors have free curbside single-stream recycling but find it tedious to put the cans in their own separate trash container -- how bourgeois!). And what your DH unearthed is a lie - and a publicly funded lie AND a misuse of public funds. Is there anything that can be done? Do you have a smarmy local secret-camera reporter celebrity type who would be willing to expose this?
Recycling can suck. I don't think it always will, when raw materials to create new things become a more valuable commodity. For now, I don't buy anything without looking at the packaging or the thing itself, and having some idea of what I'm going to do with it when it's dead or empty. We save things up that can't go into single-stream, and sometimes designate a recycling dropoff day, where we stop at all the various places (hazardous waste, the place that takes waxed milk cartons, the styrofoam place....) and then treat ourselves with lunch out for our troubles. Sometimes doing the right thing -- or sadly, what we think is the right thing -- is just a pain in the booty.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-13, 2:48am
What actually happens is piles of junk accumulate at my place, of stuff I can't get rid of, because "it needs to be recycled". Yea I'd like it made easy, because the only time I ever have to actually drive recycling all around town is weekends (maybe mornings? I definitely get home too late), and somehow on weekends there's always something I'd rather do (plus it's the time I do all the rest of my errands - like buying food for the week - yea stuff like that takes priority over recycling).
Yep, well, imho it's a fact of life that it's a hassle to have to deal with our waste. I'm busy as hell and it's just another thing to make time for, but it's important to me because of the ticking environmental timebomb that landfills are, and it's something I can do (as opposed to solving the energy problem, nuclear armaments, the corrupt financial system, etc) It doesn't take that much time when I'm organized.
I take all my recycling to a small town close to here, where they collect it in huge bins at the street department. I DO always worry that they just dump it.
Many years ago, I would carefully tie up my sheets of cardboard, and put my glass/cans/plastic in containers at the end of my lane for a local trash company that was also doing "recycling".
One day, I was out at the barn when the truck came for the recycling. It was the trash truck, not the recycling truck, and he threw it in all in with the other garbage. I was livid! I got in my car and chased him down and pulled him over. (Yes, I do occasionally turn into the Incredible Hulk when I'm rally po'd). He got out of the truck and said "What?" I said "you just threw all my recycling away!!!" He didn't even know what I was talking about. I called the company and raised hell. I never trusted them after that.
When I drive to town on trash pick-up day, it looks like everyone else throws all their stuff out. It makes me sick. But I do understand how expensive and energy-using it is for a company to recycle. Its a crazy thing when you have a culture that consumes massive amounts of stuff in massive amounts of jars/plastic/cans. its overwhelming to think about it.
But I NEVER throw anything out that can be recycled. Like you, Pug, the "hassle" is worth it to me.
I think a big part of the problem right now is that there isn't an effective means of assessing the true, long-term cost of excessive waste, and making those responsible for that waste carry the full load of that cost. If the true, longer-term cost of excessive waste was applied at the point where its non-covered use occurs, that will turn a lot of the equations around (kind of like gasoline taxes prompt people to buy Prius-es).
After some similar bumps, I think our city is on the right road. We can put all recyclables - plastic, metal, milk cartons, etc in one container. Brush is picked up separately and composted. They are doing a trial right now with a small composting bin for food scraps but so much more efficient just to put it in back yard pile. I did however notice a $6.00 monthly charge on our utility bill - small price to pay if it works.
Miss Cellane
4-12-13, 10:23am
My town seems to have a handle on recycling. I guess I'm spoiled--I hadn't realized it was so bad in other areas.
We have to buy special city trash bags. I think it's $15 for ten 15 gallon bags, and $20 for ten 30 gallon bags. Yes, it's putting more plastic bags into a landfill somewhere, I don't deny that. But when you are paying for every bit of trash you are throwing out, the free curbside recycling starts to look good.
You don't even have to buy the city recycling bin. Any plastic container under 18 gallons is allowed, so you see a lot of repurposed Rubbermaid totes and the like. Glass, metal and plastic in one bin. Paper and cardboard in another bin, or stacked next to the other recycle bin, or in a paper bag. You can buy a Bulky Waste tag at town hall for mattresses, refrigerators and the like. Because they are paying by the bag for trash, pretty nearly everyone recycles.
Everything else goes to the Recycling Center that the town runs. Electronics (the Goodwill doesn't take any), CFL bulbs, construction waste, yard waste out of season (during the season you can put it curbside), microwaves, some food waste (it gets composted), cell phones (they go to a soliders' charity), books (there's a special shed with bookshelves so you can help yourself to a few).
There's an annual hazardous waste day that takes pretty much anything.
My 30 year old kitchen clock isn't working anymore. The wood frame is going to the Recycling Center. The "works" still work, so I'm going to try and fix another clock with that. The face is cardboard and can be recycled. The only part I can't recycle is the plastic face and back--it's so old there's no recycling number on it, so they won't accept it.
iris lily
4-12-13, 11:24am
My town seems to have a handle on recycling. I guess I'm spoiled--I hadn't realized it was so bad in other areas.
We have to buy special city trash bags. I think it's $15 for ten 15 gallon bags, and $20 for ten 30 gallon bags. Yes, it's putting more plastic bags into a landfill somewhere, I don't deny that. But when you are paying for every bit of trash you are throwing out, the free curbside recycling starts to look good.
That's part of the problem with our city that everything is free. We truly have extraordinary trash service: huge dumpsters in the alleys, and all we have to do is sort 3 ways:
compostables
recycling products
everything else
And then, once a month, you can put out bulk items for free pick up (sofas, carpets, dishwashers) and it is all hauled away for free. Plus big tree limbs, stumps, etc--all gone for free, or at least part of tax based service. I should really take a photo of all of the wonderful dumpster in our alley so that you can see garbage heaven! ha ha
So I don't really mind the recent added charge to our "water" bill for garbage service since I think we had fab service for a very long time. I mind that the city put that small business man who hauled away recyclables out of business.
But most of all, I hate the yahoos who refuse to pay any attention to recycling requirements. And on this I will say: my ghetto neighbors at our garden property are pretty straightforward about their civil disobedience, they aren't gonna play recycling, and I don't expect them to play, it's part of our social contract. It's my middle class friends who cannot be bothered to recycle that raises my blood pressure. Two close friends told me they will not recycle. Two of my closest friends, so how many do you think are not doing it that I don't even know about? In the days when I used to hang out in alleys checking dumpsters, I know who bothered to break up their cardboard and put it in the right dumpster and who did not. I have an expectation that people in my neighborhood be leaders in this city rather than mimic the low lifers in nearby 'nabes.
So we will see what happens. I am hoping that our city will be successful in negotiating another recycling contract, I would imagine that's what is going on.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-13, 11:31am
So long as the city picks up trash right at residences but doesn't pick up recycling at residences it is a bias to throw things out. Of course they do pick up recycling at residences for homeowners ... And tell me why again can't recycling be at somewhere you go anyway, like the store, heck even at a big box? And of course there is the recycling you get money back for that has to be taken to yet other places apart from the usual recycling place (and shop around for the best deal? haha, I'm not that desperate). And at this point I not only have accumulated any electronic waste I personally may have accumulated but electronic waste I have rescued out of this building's apartment dumpsters because "people shouldn't just throw that away" (not the only thing I have rescued, I've rescued from the dumpster things I thought could be donated etc. etc).. Yea, I'm pretty sick of it all right.
We're so spoiled to have most of our major recycling facilities nearby right behind the grocery store! I think that's an excellent plan that really helps our recycling rate around here. I grumble about the electronics too. I wish there were more frequent pickup days for that....I think we have two per year up here, so a whole shelf in our closet is devoted to the Island of Misfit Electronics, waiting for their disposal. It IS getting better, though. A few years ago we had precisely diddly-squat around here, so this is an improvement. Small steps......
the days when I used to hang out in alleys checking dumpsters, I know who bothered to break up their cardboard and put it in the right dumpster and who did not. I have an expectation that people in my neighborhood be leaders in this city rather than mimic the low lifers in nearby 'nabes.
I love this imagery :D Hoping this gets fixed for you (and I'm jealous, by the way). It really ruins the image of recycling programs in general when stupid sh** like that happens.
In general I'm not sure recycling will be done right until we run out of raw materials to make new stuff. Then someone will get rich mining the landfills for old beer cans. Its just the good old, all American, @__$#ed up way of doing things. The simple solution (IMO) is to put a $.25 deposit on every can, bottle and box. A $6.00 deposit on a case of beer would change habits in a big hurry!
In general I'm not sure recycling will be done right until we run out of raw materials to make new stuff. Then someone will get rich mining the landfills for old beer cans. Its just the good old, all American, @__$#ed up way of doing things. The simple solution (IMO) is to put a $.25 deposit on every can, bottle and box. A $6.00 deposit on a case of beer would change habits in a big hurry!
I've long thought along those lines. I'm pretty sure there are very few aluminum cans dumped in Oregon landfills due to their deposit law. People regularly gather cans and bottles from roadsides, trash cans, and recycling bins and return them for money.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-13, 2:42pm
I no more have any pickup for electronics than I do for recycling. They do however have moving locations at local locations where you periodically can take your electronic waste (if you remember where and when). What I actually do (since I never remember where and when) is take them a few cities down to a permanent electronics recycling place (at least I know it will always be there).
So what it really is is: 1) one place to take recyclables 2) another place to take recyclables for which you can get money 3) a 3rd place to take electronic waste. All of which must be driven to. It is true that almost none of the things you can get money back for get thrown away. Because people come around and dig in the trash for them even. Oh I don't actually dig in the trash for pretty much anything, the electronic waste and so on I've "rescued" from the trash was pretty much sitting on top of the trash when I went out to take out my trash and clean, not covered with a bunch of icky stuff or anything, so I do what I have to do with it (take it to electronic waste).
For most other home goods and appliances, if they are still working but no longer needed, we can donate them to the local church fair, for resale. But they don't allow donations of electronics, so Best Buy is our best bet. I'm glad that Best Buy doesn't charge for taking electronic waste.
It seems like we pay and pay again for the privilege of recycling. I think the going rate for TVs is five dollars now. You can dispose of styrofoam peanuts without paying extra here...and then the UPS store turns around and makes a profit from their use. Most of what I dispose of is recyclable. I generally put out two smallish bags of garbage a month. So I'm paying forty dollars a month so someone else can profit from my reusable discards and for a negligible amount of actual waste. This should go in the Daily Peeve thread, clearly.
Miss Cellane
4-13-13, 9:00am
This thread has been enlightening. Since about 1989, I've had free curbside recycling, or at least curbside recycling wrapped into the garbage disposal fee. I've lived in rural Connecticut, urban Connecticut, urban Massachusetts, and now rural New Hampshire. With the exception of one apartment building, where we had separate dumpsters for trash and recycling, I've hauled most of my recycling to the curb for decades. Total of 3 cities and 5 towns that I've lived in, and they all had curbside recycling.
Now, I'll admit that rural Connecticut is probably more heavily populated than, say, rural Montana. But at some point, if you're living that far out, you are probably hauling your trash to a dump somewhere. What I don't understand is communities that already have curbside trash pickup that don't also have recycling pickup. Some places I lived, recycling was picked up only once or twice a month, while trash was weekly, but it was still done.
On a related note, Connecticut and Massachusetts both have bottle redemption programs. I cannot tell you how weird it feels here in New Hampshire to just casually toss a plastic bottle in the recycling bin. Not that I have a lot of them, but I still feel like I'm breaking the law.
Originally posted by Iris Lily.
Today DH confirmed with a city garbage worker that our carefully sorted, stored, and bundled recycling debris is going EXACTLY TO THE SAME PLACE as the other garbage. It had been a rumor for a while, and the city worker confirmed it.Yes, and not just in your area/country. Plain and simply, until such a time we nip excess packaging and wastefulness (in the bud), i.e., manufacturers plants/doorsteps, our efforts related to reducing, reusing, and recycling, will continue to be a revolving futile practice.
I take most of my recyclables directly to the recycling center, which saves me the extra cost of curbside recycling we have. It's not too much of a hassle, as I can usually let it accumulate and only go about once a month.
In general I'm not sure recycling will be done right until we run out of raw materials to make new stuff. Then someone will get rich mining the landfills for old beer cans. Its just the good old, all American, @__$#ed up way of doing things. The simple solution (IMO) is to put a $.25 deposit on every can, bottle and box. A $6.00 deposit on a case of beer would change habits in a big hurry!
The Germans seem to have a model recycling program and supposedly recycle 70% of their waste. It is an interesting concept where they place the recycling cost burden on the manufacturer rather than the consumer and called "the polluter pays principle". I'm sure the consumers have to make an effort to recycle, too.
Our state has had deposit requirements on glass and aluminum containers on the ballot a few times and it has been a mystery to me why it never passes.
iris lily
4-14-13, 10:32am
We're so spoiled to have most of our major recycling facilities nearby right behind the grocery store! I think that's an excellent plan that really helps our recycling rate around here. I grumble about the electronics too. I wish there were more frequent pickup days for that....I think we have two per year up here, so a whole shelf in our closet is devoted to the Island of Misfit Electronics, waiting for their disposal. It IS getting better, though. A few years ago we had precisely diddly-squat around here, so this is an improvement. Small steps......
That's a very practical place to have recycling containers. That was true in my mom's town in Iowa--giants recycling dumpsters out in the parking lot.
I wouldn't mind taking my recyclables to a central location as long as they took everything. I'm frustrated with having to drive here and there--miles and miles away--to "do the right thing," along with all the washing, sorting, and storing I already do with the stuff that's eligible for curbside (sic) pickup.
ApatheticNoMore
4-14-13, 12:55pm
I've often thought the real future of real recycling would be automated garbage sorting by the trash collection etc.. Where all waste just goes into "a recyling factory/machinery" and comes out sorted. I don't know, I'm far from an expert on trash sorting, but I've often seemed like it would be technically feasible, like not too difficult a problem to solve technically? Although some things it would never work for, like cardboard and paper gets ruined for future use as soon as it comes into contact with grease and food and so on. But glass, plastic, tin?
I was very impressed with recycling and preferred to buy things that were recyclable however when I learned about zero waste concept that changed things for me. Unless we make our own everything there will always be a thing to toss. The biggest challenge is where it all starts in packaging. Years ago things were triple packaged, then they cut back, but still we have to recycle it. And it goes straight to the trash. I think it's just political, "we offer recycling" but after we "take it-it goes in the trash". It kills me to see neighbors throwing out good furniture when you could donate and they will even pick it up.It's food packaging that gets me.I try to cook from scratch so less waste and packaging. Zero waste is the answer and many Japanese communities are doing just that.
You can also bring this to light at your monthly city council meeting and calling your local newspaper. Many people will be enraged when they discover their efforts going to the "trash".
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