Zen again

[Xmac]

Master Seisetsu was on a fund-raising mission for his temple when a merchant came and brought 500 yen. The master received the money, but without saying thanks. After a bit the merchant said, "500 yen is a lot of money and yet you have no words of appreciation?"
Immediately the master said, "You're the one who has done a good thing. Why must I thank you?"
With that the merchant understood what the highest good is.

I love this because it illustrates the essence of what I see as being true giving. Unprompted by notions of societal obligations, one sees another as themselves in a situation that one would willingly and easily accept the presence/presents of another and one moves with, and from that seeing. As in the story above, it seems to me that this kind of giving is all giving...and then there is the story of what is owed that comes afterwards.
After I read this, I've noticed that I don't feel that twinge when somebody doesn't thank me for holding the door for them or some other form of public giving to strangers.

[catherine]

I agree! It makes me think of some members of a church I belonged to who initiated a "Santa" drive for a needy family in town. They distributed the wish lists of the family of four in the church, got donations, wrapped them, and then completed their mission by bringing the gifts to the family's house.

Their only response when asked how it went was "They didn't even thank us." My mind went right to just what the Zen master said.. I was thinking, so you did all this to get your "Good Christian" credits? Maybe if you had beed a good Christian you wouldn't have made such a show of bringing donations to the "poor people's" house and perhaps humiliating the parents in front of the kids. Maybe you would have quietly given the parents a gift card so they parents could have the joy of providing the right gifts for their children, rather than have some strangers have the chance to pat themselves on the back for spending their time picking out the stuff.

Good story.

[SteveinMN]

"They didn't even thank us." My mind went right to just what the Zen master said.. I was thinking, so you did all this to get your "Good Christian" credits? Maybe if you had beed a good Christian you wouldn't have made such a show of bringing donations to the "poor people's" house and perhaps humiliating the parents in front of the kids. Maybe you would have quietly given the parents a gift card
Agreed.

Matthew 6:1-4


1 "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if other people read the same book I read.

[catherine]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if other people read the same book I read.

Yeah, I love how Martin Luther King Jr. once characterized most churches as "social clubs with a thin veneer of religiosity."

[puglogic]

I never expect gratitude for my actions. But I always express gratitude when someone is kind to me, and I find I do think more highly of those who have evolved to the point where they have learned how to express gratitude. Not so much for gifts of money or "stuff," the institutionalized giving machine, but of genuine giving: time, compassion, service. It may not be the zen or christian way, but when people genuinely give of themselves, I always want them to know that I SEE that's just happened, and that I recognize the rare connection that has just occurred.

But in concept, I agree with the Master. Giving is a eudonic reward in and of itself, isn't it?

[Xmac]

I never expect gratitude for my actions. But I always express gratitude when someone is kind to me, and I find I do think more highly of those who have evolved to the point where they have learned how to express gratitude. Not so much for gifts of money or "stuff," the institutionalized giving machine, but of genuine giving: time, compassion, service. It may not be the zen or christian way, but when people genuinely give of themselves, I always want them to know that I SEE that's just happened, and that I recognize the rare connection that has just occurred.

But in concept, I agree with the Master. Giving is a eudonic reward in and of itself, isn't it?

In the story above, if one assumes that the master spent the money on the temple, isn't that a genuine expression of gratitude? He could have said "thank you" and threw the money in the river because he had judgments about the merchant or where he got the money. But the merchant would go around thinking more highly of him or that the master is more evolved than one who says nothing. When really the merchant who sees the quiet one as less is (could be) the ungrateful one: he's not grateful for being able to give large sums of money to others, he's not grateful for the positive, connected feeling he got when he gave the money, he's not grateful for being seen as a giver or generous, he's not grateful for the money just being received (ever notice how often cash gifts are refused, like trying to treat someone for dinner?) he's not grateful for the opportunity to help (He's nearby so that the money can be delivered and he was somehow made aware that there was a need that he could fill at the right time. Ever wish you knew about something sooner because you wanted to help or you were too far away?). So the master could be walking around in almost continual gratitude and merchant in ungratefulness: ignorance, but how it looked or seemed would obscure the truth.

[puglogic]

Or the Master could express gratitude AND spend the money in the proper way, and at the same time the donor could not require any form of thanks whatsoever, but could be quietly pleased with being recognized as someone who's evolved far enough from Cro Magnon Man to give of himself. Which I see the best of all possible worlds.

One way is philosophical/conceptual. The other will actually spread joy and positive behaviors in the real world we live in, among real human beings at all stages of evolution.

I respect both deeply, but I live 24/7 in the latter, and so this is the path I walk.

Lovely story either way.

[Xmac]

Nothing wrong with the master expressing gratitude and he didn't.
The merchant saw why. It became significant for that reason.

When I give verbal gratitude, I do it for me because I don't know if the person believes it or not, values it or not.

When I give of myself, I've seen I can be quietly pleased/grateful with myself. If I see the other as less evolved for not speaking thanks, I experience a long list of ungratefulness.

At the core of this, I see that the master's missing words and actions are a lesson for which I can be grateful; and the master is the formerly judged "rude" one wherever he/she appears. The ungrateful or rude ones, may just be more evolved? !Splat!

[puglogic]

The ungrateful or rude ones, may just be more evolved? !Splat!

Entirely possible! :) I see your point.

I suppose we can never know another's inner motivation, only our own. To pass judgment (in any direction) is purely elective activity. I'm grateful for all daily reminders of different ways to see giving & receiving.