View Full Version : Making a difference?
Two day trip observations of what is going on in the big picture of our needless waste, trash, gas and such. How this squashes my idea that I somehow can make difference in the world by my tiny bit of recycling and limiting my gas usage by biking.
We were at fault also for the waste, so not on my high horse by any means. A 16 hour round trip in the big car on I 75. The traffic was great, so I thought about all the issues related to this many cars on the freeway. Kinda pales my biking. Then the hotel. With the messages in the room about conserving water and energy. Yet at the continental breakfast which we partook in, the massive paper products going into the trash baskets. All my recycling could not compare to that one breakfast for a packed hotel on one day.
So how does one feel they are making a difference? I felt defeated and silly somehow thinking about my small contributions.
Tussiemussies
7-28-13, 7:26pm
Hi, Read your post and wanted to share that for me I think when a new trend it starts it is only a minority that work at it until the years go by more and more people become aware OR are forced into evolution. Someday it will be changed but all of us working at it now are the pioneers. Don't give up! Ever little bit you do matters. You may be influencing others without realizing it. Chris
Hi, Read your post and wanted to share that for me I think when a new trend it starts it is only a minority that work at it until the years go by more and more people become aware OR are forced into evolution. Someday it will be changed but all of us working at it now are the pioneers. Don't give up! Ever little bit you do matters. You may be influencing others without realizing it. Chris
+1
I keep thinking about that famous image of the sandpile that kept growing grain by grain of sand until one grain of sand triggered the total collapse. You never know with any kind of predictability which grain will cause the pile to collapse or, in another frame, cause the resistance to conservation to collapse.
I do my conservation efforts because I value doing so and expect that like any other grain of sand, it will enable another grain to have a greater impact.
Choosing to make no effort has the higher opportunity cost.
SteveinMN
7-28-13, 10:20pm
It took individuals watching raw film from the Vietnam War to support the idea of getting out of that war.
It took social pressure, person by person, to support smoking bans and other efforts to help people not start smoking and to stop if they start.
It has taken collective action in the form of groups like MADD and DARE to make the idea of drinking and driving at even low levels of impairment socially unacceptable.
I understand feeling like my minuscule efforts don't amount to a hill of beans relative to some of the big polluters and resource wasters out there. But, as razz pointed out, it takes changing minds one by one until a critical mass is reached. We may not see enlightenment in our lifetime. But we are doing our part.
It is frustrating, but we are making some type of difference. I know my parents have been recycling since I was a kid. It was mostly because my dad was raised on a farm, or maybe because of the recycle deposit on cans in Michigan. My dad also put a timer in the bathroom for the shower! We got 5 minutes, never figured out why people ever needed more.
So 25 years ago when I brought my bag to the grocery store, or rode my bike with my backpack I would get weird reactions. Sometimes they said they were not allowed to use my bags, they tried to put my groceries in a plastic bag inside a reusable bag, I got accused of stealing a couple times. Now every time I go to the store a good percentage of people are using their own bags, I see people all the time with reusable water bottles (in Colorado I think everyone carries water) and the bike rental program in the city is super cool to get around short distances.
Yes it is hard, I forget bags and do things I notice are not very eco friendly all the time. But rather than getting overwhelmed I have found in the many years I have been here to look for a simple solution at those times, and have compassion for yourself that you cannot do it all just right every day.
I do what I want and try to not stress over the big stuff. I share the notion of all of those little things helping, or if they do not actually help, they are not making things worse. Sort of like the parable about the guy who tossed stranded starfish back into the sea. It has always made me feel that if I ever came across a starfish, real or metaphorical, that I would toss, as well.
Zoe Girl, I also made my own cloth bags a million years ago and was told the same things, that they could not use my bags. So, I let them pack up my stuff as they wanted and then wheeled my cart out of the way and repacked everything into my bags and returned their bags to them, which were paper. The only plastic bags I remember from then were the little thin ones in the produce department.
You know, I think that I do not care so much about the big picture, the larger issues. I find them overwhelming and am satisfied to do my little stuff. Think I already said that.:~)
Hotel messages about saving energy and water annoy me because I sense they are far more about finding an easy way to save money & time for the hotel than about acting for the environment. If the hotels really cared about the environment, they would make changes in cleaning chemicals, use unbleached linens when they need to replace existing ones, print statements on less paper or offer email statements, make recycling easier for workers and customers, reduce packaged food and beverages and food waste in the buffet, and look at lighting, water, heating and air conditioning for efficiency possibilities.
It's true that there is a lot of waste happening at the hotel where you stayed, and the trip consumed a lot of fuel. But those little things we do at home do make a difference, especially in our home communities. Even with annual 1000-mile roadtrip to see family, we put fewer annual miles on our car than most people do in half that time. The garbage that we personally generate on any trips we take still wouldn't fill up our garbage can for one pickup (it usually has one 13-gallon bag in it, not full). Many people in our neighborhood have overflowing trash cans - the biggest size - each week!
Influencing others is of huge importance. I've lost track of how many people have asked me how to make their own cleaners (and I say, you don't have to make anything! Use dish soap, vinegar, and baking soda for general cleaning, disinfecting, and scrubbing, respectively!). Or how they can recycle something (plastic bags, holiday lights, electronics, etc). Or how to grow vegetables, or how to create a low-water landscape. People see what you do and absorb it every day, and even if they don't make immediate changes, those thoughts are there, circulating... and eventually inspiring change. 10 years ago it was seen as weird to bring your own bags anywhere but Whole Foods or the food coop. Now even Target gives you 5 cents per bag, and clerks everywhere tell me what a great idea it is.
Keep setting an example. And write the hotel a letter to tell them what changes you'd like to see!
I keep thinking about that famous image of the sandpile that kept growing grain by grain of sand until one grain of sand triggered the total collapse. You never know with any kind of predictability which grain will cause the pile to collapse or, in another frame, cause the resistance to conservation to collapse.
I do my conservation efforts because I value doing so and expect that like any other grain of sand, it will enable another grain to have a greater impact.
Me too.
Also though, I do what I do not because I expect to save the world, but because I have a vision for what kind of person I want to be. And I want to be one who values resources, people, and life in general -- so I'm mindful about my impact on the environment, among other things. Naturally we all wish more people cared, but on another level what others do/don't do has NO impact on what I choose to do.
Keep on doing what you're doing, ctg - you're awesome
ApatheticNoMore
7-29-13, 2:31pm
Even with annual 1000-mile roadtrip to see family, we put fewer annual miles on our car than most people do in half that time.
it's probably near 100% commuting to work, that's how people put miles on the car. I've often proposed willingness to constantly move for jobs as one of the few viable solutions to this problem - but I fall short of it myself - not all jobs are worth moving for.
treehugger
7-29-13, 2:35pm
Also though, I do what I do not because I expect to save the world, but because I have a vision for what kind of person I want to be. And I want to be one who values resources, people, and life in general -- so I'm mindful about my impact on the environment, among other things. Naturally we all wish more people cared, but on another level what others do/don't do has NO impact on what I choose to do.
This fits me exactly. This way of thinking also explains my own personal "boycotts" against companies I don't want to support. I put boycotts in quotes deliberately; I don't think me choosing not to buy from companies that test cosmetics on animals (for instance) will change the way that company does business or change the world, but spending money in line with my own values feels right to me, on a personal level. I don't need to feel like I am changing the world to do the right thing. I do the right thing so that I like what I see when I look in the mirror.
Kara
Two day trip observations of what is going on in the big picture of our needless waste, trash, gas and such. How this squashes my idea that I somehow can make difference in the world by my tiny bit of recycling and limiting my gas usage by biking....
All my recycling could not compare to that one breakfast for a packed hotel on one day.
So how does one feel they are making a difference? I felt defeated and silly somehow thinking about my small contributions.
I actually cannot imagine not recycling or using a bike or other energy efficient transportation. Recycling is easy and bicycling is fun and healthy even if it's a small contribution in the big scheme of things. I am always asking, what more can I do. I've found other things that I think might make a small contribution and take green living to a little higher level. Core to some of those things is living simply and consuming less or wisely. I think volunteering or working in certain fields takes things to a next level. In my work days there always seemed like some things that were small changes but added up, like maybe adding paper recycling collection boxes.
It's helpful for me to take a look at some of the online carbon footprint tests and evaluations to see where I rank and what things could be done to improve. They also help prioritize changes.
It always a question worth asking. I think there are some PC ecofetishisms that are mostly feel good things with no help at all. Like say for example, building an energy efficient home, but one that is over sized for practicality. It seems like the markets are full of feel good green products and ideas, but not all are good.
Some of the things I do don't always seem that significant, but I can't imagine not trying.
ApatheticNoMore
7-29-13, 3:34pm
recycling is hard, you have to clean everything first, drive your stuff to the recycle place and seperate all the plastics based on their numbering (hard is relative, it's hard compared to just dumping the trash to the dumpster immidiately outside the building mainly). Really the situation stresses me so much that now I look to buy things in glass containers I can take back to the store for reuse rather than recycle etc.. Bicycling is dangerous (oh there is no doubt in my mind of that - I know people seriously injured who do not have the type of insurance that will pay to put them back together).
I guess where I usually ask what I can do is with my money - what can I invest in that is less evil or helpful. I don't seem to have arrived at much though.
Generally speaking plastic recycling is more appropriately called down-cycling since the quality of the product is reduced with every generation. My challenge to myself the past few years is to use as little plastic as possible. I'm a long way from being a no impact man, but you have to do what you can.
I've been examining my plastic waste lately, trying to figure out how to get a handle on it. Our typical culprits for solid (not film) plastic are:
Yogurt tubs
Condiments
Oils (one of those dilemmas....organic is much cheaper in large quantities, and those almost always come in plastic)
Cheese (the crumbly kinds)
Clamshell-type that some produce comes in (strawberries, etc.)
I suppose I could try to find time in my week to make our yogurt (it's SO not hard).
Mustard and mayo are also not hard to make. Problem is they don't keep long....but I guess that would get some of the chemical preservatives out of my diet too.
I know some grocers have bulk olive oil, some even of good quality.
We could bring a reusable bag and get bulk salad when we don't have it in the garden. No idea on things like strawberries or cherry tomatoes etc.....except the farmer's market.
Makes me want to try a plastic-free week, if I can carve out the time. I can't face trying to eliminate plastic film yet -- the stuff is just insidious -- but maybe hard plastics.
I guess where I usually ask what I can do is with my money - what can I invest in that is less evil or helpful. I don't seem to have arrived at much though.
I have thought that energy efficient home upgrades makes good sense. On one hand you help reduce carbon emissions and energy consumption. On the other, you reduce utility costs. I had my utility company do an energy audit and did a few things. One was attic insulation, which I figure will have about an 8 to 10 year payback. If I decide to sell before then it might be helpful in the home value, and will also pass on a legacy of having a more efficient home. If water is an issue where you live, Xeriscaping makes a similar kind of sense.
Condiments - I have often thought about this, too. We don't use that much of a given condiment in any given week. Mustard actually would keep a long time even when homemade, I think, because it has a fair amount of vinegar in it.
One was attic insulation, which I figure will have about an 8 to 10 year payback. If I decide to sell before then it might be helpful in the home value, and will also pass on a legacy of having a more efficient home. If water is an issue where you live, Xeriscaping makes a similar kind of sense.
Rogar, did you do the work yourself, or have it done? We're looking at this too, and it seems like we have to choose between a big chunk of money OR the worst DIY task imaginable.
ApatheticNoMore
7-30-13, 2:00pm
I've been examining my plastic waste lately, trying to figure out how to get a handle on it. Our typical culprits for solid (not film) plastic are:
Yogurt tubs
I bought two yogurts in reusable ceramic containers this week, I felt very virtuous, until I discovered one was rotten (a few days after purchase - the other I ate, it seemed ok, I didn't die). Ok chalk up another one for failed experiment. They weren't sealed tightly the way plastic is so it's kind of inevitable this happened I guess .... yea bad idea.
Condiments
I buy condiments in glass. I really don't use many, mostly: mustard, pickles, hot sauce, tamari, vinegar, sometimes salsa. All glass.
Oils (one of those dilemmas....organic is much cheaper in large quantities, and those almost always come in plastic)
I guy oils in glass - I really only use olive oil (how I love that liquid gold).
Cheese (the crumbly kinds)
Now that is a problem. Cheese always comes wrapped in plastic.
Clamshell-type that some produce comes in (strawberries, etc.)
Well the berries I got at the farmer's market I plan to take back the plastic lids and wire plastic containers or at least try - we'll see if they take them - they should as it's a direct cost savings. The cardboard bottoms they came with that are stained with berries, uh I'll throw it away in the landfill :~), I don't think cardboard recycles when it's dirty.
I suppose I could try to find time in my week to make our yogurt (it's SO not hard).
The problem here is quantity. I'm only one person, I'm not a yogurt eating machine, sure I like a yogurt here and there (maybe twice a week at *most*), not everyday or anything, so making my own is bound to end up with too much I think, and I really doubt it freezes. Same plastic container problem with sour cream.
Mustard and mayo are also not hard to make. Problem is they don't keep long....but I guess that would get some of the chemical preservatives out of my diet too.
Have you tried it? I've heard mustard should keep a few months, but I haven't tried it. I can't imagine mayo keeping. Of course you could can the mustard so it will keep indefinitely but that's doing the whole canning thing, nothing I'm looking to take on for sure! I may make mustard someday though as I have a bunch of wild mustard seeds - and I either need to use htem in that or cooking.
We could bring a reusable bag and get bulk salad when we don't have it in the garden.
Actually the farmers market OR *any* store that sells unwrapped heads of lettuce (not trader joe's ok, everything is packaged), you can just put them in your cloth bag to transport home IF you have extra plastic bags or other containers to put them in the crisper. If anyone knows an ideal crisper container for this, let me know, reusing plastic produce bags is only so useful ....
Makes me want to try a plastic-free week, if I can carve out the time. I can't face trying to eliminate plastic film yet -- the stuff is just insidious -- but maybe hard plastics.
I got that "plastic free" book recommended here - yea I bought the book - and will donate if I get bored of it. It wasn't as helpful as you'd think (like some of the tips for preserving produce in the fridge wihtout plastic didn't sound like they'd preserve much of anything! Really did they even try those ideas? plus it wasn't as comprehensive a book as you'd hope - I wanted more pracitical stuff, less lecturing on the evils of plastic) but I got it because it just sounded so peaceful - no plastic - ahhh .... Mostly because like I said I am overwhelmed with recycling here. I could start leaning on homeowners to just take my recylcing as the problem is they don't pick up recycling at apartments, so it always ends up a trip, and sorting everything, getting lazy, throwing some away, piles building up in the living room, trying to recycle more than I throw away, etc. etc. Plus I really don't like plastic. It doesn't clean as easy as glass does. That's major, ease of cleaning. OK, I don't like doing dishes :~), I want to make it as easy as possible, most of my cooking stuff is glass or stainless steel but there's all the stupid plastic containers that should be cleaned if I wish to recycle them! Getting rid of plastic even for shampoo bottles and so on sounds extremely difficult but the food stuff seems mostly doable.
Plastic film I think is unnecessary if you have lids for your containers (of course I misplaced the lids and so used plastic film to cover my glass lunch containers today). Sigh ....
Increasing the attic insulation in our house from 1980s standards to modern standards made an enormous difference in our comfort level. Also, we got huge rebates from our utility company - I think it was almost free to have the work done. So check into rebates whenever you're doing energy-efficiency work!
Rogar, did you do the work yourself, or have it done? We're looking at this too, and it seems like we have to choose between a big chunk of money OR the worst DIY task imaginable.
I had the work done. It would have been a major chore for me and I'm only handy with home improvements up to a point. The insulation was Greenfiber which is 85% recycled content. A big part of the work (and expense) beyond the insulation was sealing all the air leaks between the home and attic. At the time, Xcel offered a relatively small rebate of a few hundred dollars and if I remember correctly you had to use a qualified contractor for the rebate. I imagine it is probably doable as a do-it-yourself with a little study and the ability to do some hard work, but involved more than just blowing in insulation. I am not detailed about tracking heating costs, but it made a noticeable difference in my utility bills. I used a company called GB3 Energy Solutions and they do work all along the Colorado front range. They are a very professional company and seemed quite honest. If the information would be helpful, my home is about 1400 sq ft and the cost was about $1500 after the small rebate. The rebates seem to vary from one year to the next.
Reading a book right now called The Green Boat about how to come to grips emotionally with our environmental crisis. Very insightful so far! Apparently, we humans are much more upset about this thing than we will admit since we have so little control over. We are in various states of grief and denial - just trying to cope with the knowledge.
I have thought that energy efficient home upgrades makes good sense. On one hand you help reduce carbon emissions and energy consumption. On the other, you reduce utility costs.
Conservation is the future. Humans, being what they are, aren't going to want to scale anything back so the obvious solution is to do what we do with less. In the big picture (much) more efficient commercial building codes are the real low hanging fruit, but there is no sensible argument whatsoever for not making homes as efficient as possible, too.
Reading a book right now called The Green Boat about how to come to grips emotionally with our environmental crisis. Very insightful so far! Apparently, we humans are much more upset about this thing than we will admit since we have so little control over. We are in various states of grief and denial - just trying to cope with the knowledge.
That's a really interesting concept pinkytoe. That sounds kind of like humans are in a state of mourning for the planet that we've almost killed. Is there a link in the book to the 5 stages of grief from psyc 101 (denial-anger-bargaining-depression-acceptance)? It would be a unique way to look at our dilemma. Unfortunately most of the folks I know would still be in the first stage...
SteveinMN
7-31-13, 11:00am
Conservation is the future. Humans, being what they are, aren't going to want to scale anything back so the obvious solution is to do what we do with less. In the big picture (much) more efficient commercial building codes are the real low hanging fruit, but there is no sensible argument whatsoever for not making homes as efficient as possible, too.
Sure there is, Gregg. Global warming is a hoax and there's nothing we can do about it, so why sacrifice? It won't make any difference. Besides, who wants to live in a gummint nanny state in which a greater good is pursued just to avoid more Exxon Valdezes and Deepwater Horizons and Fukushimas? And just think of the millions of home builders, contractors, pickup-truck sellers, power tool manufacturers, real estate agents, and REIT investors who will suffer because buildings will cost the teensiest bit more to construct efficiently. Gregg, why do you hate America?
:laff:
In The Green Boat book, I don't specifically recall mention of the stages of grief. I do recall reading last night that we rarely change anything substantial in our lives until we "feel the pain."
ToomuchStuff
7-31-13, 11:25am
Conservation is the future.
It is also the past. Farmers, blacksmiths, depressions, pre industrial revolution society, you tended to find as much of a use for everything you could. (even then we had waste) The ability to make things inexpensively (to the point we make them cheap), and the push for a consumer economy, was the initial change. People coming back from WWII, with money to spend, after having shortages, etc. was a factor that sped us up. While they were then figuring out how to make 'throwaway goods", EZ credit came along and was the next accelerant.
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