View Full Version : Global economic collapse, anyone?
Is anyone choosing frugal living and changing their lives because they believe the economy is collapsing?
My personal economy already collapsed. And yes, there have been many changes in what I buy and how I do things as a result. Now, if I became convinced the national, or global, economy was collapsing there would be even more changes including sharply reduced reliance on the banking system.
I am concerned about the economy, especially after reading "Too Big to Fail" which freaked me out with the games executives play at our expense.
I chose frugal living more because it gives me a better life where material goods aren't that important and it gives me control to better manage my future.
SnakeBlitz33
11-8-13, 10:19pm
If the global economy collapses, I have no control over it, so I don't worry about it. What I try to do is to live every day to benefit me and my family.
I chose a more simple life so that I don't have to work so hard to buy materials and services that I don't need. I'm trying to become more self reliant and working my way towards a more rural style of living, and living debt free, mortgage free, and deliberately.
Hi SnakeBlitz, it is possible to actually prepare for economic collapse by becoming self-sufficient.
Self-sufficiency will only take you so far. I will turn 70 years old in a couple of months, have lived thoughtfully and frugally and very self-sufficiently for years. It is not enough as I have discovered. Life happens!
When DH passed away, I realized that things that are possible for two active people were too much for two aging, much less for one but with occasional support from a wonderful family, friends, neighbours and a realistic expectation of wants and needs, life can be rich and enjoyable with a very independent existence.
I have learned that I cannot save the world despite great efforts to date, but I can prepare myself mentally, emotionally and physically to manage my life wisely - no debt, pay as I go, spend with care and a budget, minimize one's footprint and enjoy being alive!
I start each morning with a gratitude for 10 blessings and close my day the same way. I was caught up in the fear of the future and preparing for the coming collapse and lost my enjoyment of the present which was a big mistake that I regret.
My personal economy already collapsed.
+1
I have learned that I cannot save the world despite great efforts to date, but I can prepare myself mentally, emotionally and physically to manage my life wisely - no debt, pay as I go, spend with care and a budget, minimize one's footprint and enjoy being alive!
I start each morning with a gratitude for 10 blessings and close my day the same way.
+1000
I was caught up in the fear of the future and preparing for the coming collapse and lost my enjoyment of the present which was a big mistake that I regret.
I have very strong feelings about this. Over the past few years, dh has become obsessed with this and related topics. It will be the end of our marriage if it continues as I can't enjoy life within that constant negative and fearful state. It really irritates me that the media promulgates this stuff because susceptible people eat it up. I believe that as individuals we have very little control over what happens in the larger sphere. We do have control over how we view the world though. Why would one want to wake up every morning being fearful of something that MIGHT happen? I will take the advice of razz and give blessings for what we do have right now and live sensibly to take care of myself now and as time passes.
I think most everyone on this thread has "prepared" to a a degree, some more than others. But it's hard to find that middle ground where you can say I've done what I can as an individual or family, and then step back and continue to enjoy life.
Where you draw that line is up to you.
ApatheticNoMore
11-9-13, 12:00pm
Economic collapse has so many different meanings, if it were going to happen in some dramatic form, keel over of a heart attack and hit the ground hard :), I think it would have happened in 2008, and what happened instead is instructive. For many ordinary people their economy did collapse (and for much of the world).
The last few years taught me my lesson as well (school of hard knocks style), I was expecting a more universal economic collapse. Instead when I lost a job, I just lost a job, and the context that took place in was that the economy was in a major recession as well, people were becoming long term unemployed, and not able to get back into their current careers, I did what I could do avoid that. So it wasn't about "economic collapse", it was about doing what I could for myself. And yes I am aware of the many life support measures that keep this current zombie economy functioning even as much as it does currently (why? when it's unsustainable environmentally anyway?).
I do think there is only a minimal amount I can do for global economic collapse with the life I actually live. I guess I have drawn my line and it mostly entails sticking with the life I actually live (I mean I'm not going to quit my job and buy farmland somewhere or something). Though it depends on what kind of "economic collapse" one is preparing for. Things getting worse in the unemployment figures and thus job conditions getting worse as well? Then I'm prepared. I'll get out with what money I can :). I think I kind of expect that anyway, the relation between me and well paid white collar work always being tenuous (no I don't have imminent retirement planned - oh how I wish - just the ability to earn less and be ok if need be is all).
I don't get the need to proclaim one can not save the world. Was one's self image before of oneself as Gandhi or Martin Luther King? Very noble if so. But mine never was. And beyond that doesn't one want to be involved in the larger world when such opportunities arise? (yes when they arise, again I'm not a born leader - possibly not a born follower, more a born loner doing my own thing).
I was caught up in the fear of the future and preparing for the coming collapse and lost my enjoyment of the present which was a big mistake that I regret.
I have very strong feelings about this. Over the past few years, dh has become obsessed with this and related topics. It will be the end of our marriage if it continues as I can't enjoy life within that constant negative and fearful state.
Seems to have taken it to a very unhealthy state of just dwelling, which I can understand for awhile, but permanently? When a better state would have been do something about it OR don't dwell on it (serenity prayer) or hey a little of both! The do something about it can be rewarding and so no I don't think it has to be miserable, I don't' think that automatically follows, but you do need to know where you draw your line etc.. If one only takes it to misery and neither action nor moving on, then that seems more psychological than anything.
I think that both the economy and the environment are indeed in a state of collapse, my watchword for living isn't really "frugal" or "simple" any more, it's SUSTAINABLE. Yeah, it's a word-of-the-week, but it summarizes what I'm looking for: choices that work and that last in a violently changing world.
I do fuss about budgets and bills, but my underlying worries are about the stability of money itself. Relying on a bank balance or a 401K plan for safety is only as good as the strength of the currency, and "we" seem hell bent on making ours worth as little as possible. So I look at my choices in terms of what I can do to create stability that's beyond money.
As I've journeyed into self sufficiency I see what Razz means, you can't do it all alone, and the older you get, the harder it is. It seems to me that a community approach to some of the problems of stability is actually safer and more do-able than trying to become entirely independent.
What I am trying to do is distance myself as far as possible from Big solutions, because these Big solutions typically wind up benefitting the very people who have caused the Big problems.
What I meant by self-sufficiency was growing your own food, and therefore not depending on stores and corporations. This way, while the economy continues to go south, and food prices keep going north, one would have their own food and not feel the impact as much. It doesn't mean being isolated if you don't want to be. Or completely paranoid. One could take active steps, and turn the fear of what is happening, into something productive and beautiful in the process. And if you don't want to be alone doing doing it, you can raise the food with your friends, family, or a community.
What I meant by self-sufficiency was growing your own food, and therefore not depending on stores and corporations.
I grow and gather a lot of my own food. I also run a commercial agricultural enterprise. While you are not depending on stores and corporations, you are still depending on Mother Earth, the Weather Gods, and half a dozen things. It is quite common to lose entire harvests several years in a row.
My conclusion is you are only going to be "self-sufficient" long-term if you expand your definition of self to include a mutually cooperative, supportive community. There's a reason we are a social species.
My conclusion is you are only going to be "self-sufficient" long-term if you expand your definition of self to include a mutually cooperative, supportive community. There's a reason we are a social species.
Yes.
I wrote previously that one could grow food with family, friends, community.
I would rather be dependent on Mother Earth, Weather Gods, and any other Gods, than on the economic system and corporations.
ApatheticNoMore
11-9-13, 2:34pm
My conclusion is you are only going to be "self-sufficient" long-term if you expand your definition of self to include a mutually cooperative, supportive community. There's a reason we are a social species.
I highly suspect those who get in trouble with the whole thing psychologically don't (don't think beyond the nuclear family I guess). So it's always either: bury one's head in sand OR fight the world alone, there's a time and place for each of those, but it's mostly a false choice (instead work and fight the world with others!). It not only has a better chance of actually ensuring survival in a crisis (though maybe not in ordinary bad times like just a job loss - then you best bet is just an emergency fund - yawn), but it's also way better for psychological well being, which perhaps is more important really, we're mortal right? It's natural. It's rewarding. It's where your darkness means to take you (among other places as well perhaps, I don't' know).
My whole county is made up of lots of small islands, located off the coast of the US mainland on the US/Canada border.
This week, a crucial undersea cable broke. Telephone service between each island was broken. Telephone service out of the county to the US mainland or anywhere else was broken. 911 service was down, along with medic-alert systems, fire alarms, weather reporting stations for the airfields, and other such things. Our island with the highest population, where our county government lives and our emergency center, was also completely cut off from the Internet. Other islands had spotty Internet availability, depending on where/who you were. And some of the islands have rough enough terrain that radio communication to those areas is difficult or impossible.
It was so bad that a state of emergency got declared yesterday morning. At that time, best guess for a general restoration of services was "weeks away". We've since lashed together some temporary solutions to get us a little functionality well ahead of that "weeks-to-months" estimate we were hearing.
I'll write up some accounts of this once the dust settles and I'm done helping, there were some fascinating lessons, it was a nice dress rehearsal for a bigger collapse event. It wasn't just a simulation - the response from some of the community has saved several lives during this event so far. Other members of the community though.... Well, I now understand a bit more about what happened during Katrina.
Bottom-line: a solid community is a good thing. But even communities you think are solid have problems...
Is anyone choosing frugal living and changing their lives because they believe the economy is collapsing?
Should we? What do you mean by "collapsing" and what evidence is there that it is occuring?
Should we? What do you mean by "collapsing" and what evidence is there that it is occuring?
No, you should not.
I grow and gather a lot of my own food. I also run a commercial agricultural enterprise. While you are not depending on stores and corporations, you are still depending on Mother Earth, the Weather Gods, and half a dozen things. It is quite common to lose entire harvests several years in a row.
My conclusion is you are only going to be "self-sufficient" long-term if you expand your definition of self to include a mutually cooperative, supportive community. There's a reason we are a social species.
+1
I think that a pleasant side-effect of simple living and minimalism is that you are more prepared for a collapse -- short or long term.
I grew up in a small town of self-proclaimed hardcore survivalists in a very rural area. They were all afraid of black helicopters and economic collapse and such.
But what I noticed was that they spent tons of money on silly gadgets, canned food they never ate, organic heirloom seeds they never planted, guns they never shot, ammo that collected dust, and off-road vehicles they drove to the grocery store or work, etc. They used credit cards like wild!
Meanwhile they pounded down processed foods, smoked, and drank and their health went to h-ll. So how prepared for the collapse was a person who was totally unhealthy, deeply in debt, and cluttered into oblivion?
Not so prepared.
I personally think that knowing how to do without many of the modern conveniences is a better form of preparing for a collapse. Can you be stoic? Can you work together with your neighbors? Do you have a handful of traditional skills (something popular in the simple living community -- think gardening, canning, sewing, etc.)?
I don't worry about a collapse because I have no control over it. That is for the power elites to decide. I am just a working man and a fisherman.
But come a collapse I think I will have beaten the rush. haha
One more thing: The negativity that comes along with dwelling on a collapse can be toxic to everyone. So if you want to "prep" be leery of this phenomenon.
Good luck to you!
I have to admit this topic was on my mind again, especially with the slowdown in China, the Greek debt crisis, now the Puerto Rico debt crisis, and the news that the main federally chartered banks like Chase, Bank of America, etc. are again under scrutiny by the fed gov't for not being as strong as they should be.
Have we reached the tipping point?
What do you mean by tipping point?
Have we reached the tipping point?
I suspect we will not know the tipping point in real time. It will only be through the lens of history that we identify the key causes.
Gardenarian
7-8-15, 12:08pm
I don't know about economic collapse, but as for global warming, we passed the tipping point in 2008.
I think it's likely that there will be some sort of 'collapse,' that we are likely already imploding. I don't think having a shotgun and 100 gallons of water will do you much good.
I have learned and practiced permaculture, worked to have a strong happy neighborhood, and have become increasingly self-sufficient - all things that are a reward in themselves.
What I find the most disheartening is the thought of all the stockpiled nuclear weapons. If there were some sort of infrastructure/governmental collapse...well I just wonder.
Ultralight
7-8-15, 12:19pm
I don't know about economic collapse, but as for global warming, we passed the tipping point in 2008.
I think it's likely that there will be some sort of 'collapse,' that we are likely already imploding. I don't think having a shotgun and 100 gallons of water will do you much good.
I have learned and practiced permaculture, worked to have a strong happy neighborhood, and have become increasingly self-sufficient - all things that are a reward in themselves.
What I find the most disheartening is the thought of all the stockpiled nuclear weapons. If there were some sort of infrastructure/governmental collapse...well I just wonder.
Good point about ecological collapse. I think that ecological collapse and economic collapse are closely related, totally intertwined.
I watched Mad Max: The Road Warrior when I was a little kid (very little). The whole concept and idea stuck with me about oil. Oil is probably the tie that binds ecological collapse and economic collapse. Either way though, not good.
Gardenarian: Can I ask why you mentioned 2008?
What I find the most disheartening is the thought of all the stockpiled nuclear weapons. If there were some sort of infrastructure/governmental collapse...well I just wonder.
Well, at least nuclear weapons have a shelf life, and require ongoing hi-tech maintenance and refurbishment.
miradoblackwarrior
7-8-15, 3:45pm
Yesterday I heard the "D" word mentioned on the radio, as pertains to Greece. Since 2008, I've scrutinized economic reports, watched and read foreign news reports, and still think we came as close to an economic depression as you can, even down to the dust bowls of the drought-stricken west. Greece, I think, is actually on the throes of depression, with 25 percent unemployment (which we brushed in 2008--just do the math), and facing greater and greater hardship. What it has taught me is that people can adapt to change in the world. Yes, maybe their salaries/pensions were cut in half. Lesson learned? Cut my own income needs in half, and bank the rest. I adapted, and thought of a different future. I have property, in an area filled with water and greenery and animals. I can sew, and I can wield a hammer if need be. I have money, tucked away in multiple crevases. And, I can learn and adapt and do what I must to manage. Long story short, the financial crisis was an educator for me. Now I don't panic, but I keep tabs on my resources, and keep my eyes wide opened. Unfortunately, too many people are not in this same place. Those whom I've talked to, who were willing to at least think about this house of cards built by unseen hands, have also put their houses in order.
I refuse to panic, but I do inventory my money, resources, and abilities. To me, these uncertain times are a good classroom in simplified living, and self-reliance.
Miradoblackwarrior:
Well said!
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-15, 4:19pm
No I don't really find it a very constructive line of thought. You can spend a long time waiting for that collapse that never comes ...
I plan to go down with the ship. Just to die ok. In anything real long term. Not to be a survivalist.
And no people can not adapt to everything, lowered income maybe, but in Greece there are people with baseball size cancer tumors (no cancer hasn't increased there or anything as far as I know, it's just not being treated) who can't get healthcare and underground doctors who try to do the best they can with expired meds etc.. Yes best at any time or place, not to get cancer, but certainly horrific in that situation. Humanitarian disaster describes some of the worst of the situation in Greece.
You right that people cannot adapt to anything. I think our species can adapt (or alter the environment) to survive many crises. I think some individuals are more adaptable than others.
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-15, 10:40pm
I guess to the extent the steps were practical adaptations to the world one actually lives in: save cash, learn things relevant to one's profession to be as hirable as possible (maybe not with 50% unemployment!) - it's one thing. But preparing for some hypothetical world that doesn't exist, learn to garden land one doesn't own, learn skills of little relevance to one's current life (and not even of income producing potential in one's current life!), for a world that may never be. Meh, burned out.
Oh I learn stuff sometimes for interest but it's of little monetary or survival use in this or any world. I have a natural connection with and love for plants but it doesn't make me a master gardener. I know practical skills but they are things like cooking my dinner (which does not a professional chef make) - it's very much for the world of the here and now.
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