View Full Version : 2WD vs 4WD
We bought a used 4Runner this Sept, a vehicle we had wanted for several years. Today we tried it out in the snow, switching between 2WD and 4WD. Obviously one cannot drive these as if it were a summer day but I definitely noticed the difference. I'm glad we got it, and looking forward to a hopefully better commute if I have a day like today to drive to work...
Remember however that it brakes like any other vehicle....
ToomuchStuff
1-5-14, 12:26am
And 4wd is not something that makes one immune to ice. (seen enough of that)
And 4wd is not something that makes one immune to ice. (seen enough of that)
Yes, I've seen too many people thinking with their SUV lately, and it leads to stupid.
And 4wd is not something that makes one immune to ice. (seen enough of that)
Yes, I've seen too many people thinking with their SUV lately, and it leads to stupid.
Better in snow but as quoted above same as any other vehicle on ice. I don't know why some people think 4WD is any better on ice. I've seen many big, 4WD vehicles in the ditch as I've putted along on an icy highway in my 2WD vehicle.
Husband had driven for 40 years in both rear and front wheel 2 wheel drive cars in Upstate NY, Alaska and lake side Ohio interstates. He uses good snow tires and has never driven off the road because of snow and ice.
4WD leads people to overdriving for the conditions. They put themselves and everyone else at danger.
Amen!!! I lived at the very top of a very steep hill in NYS for 20 years and I will never forget creeping along in my little Plymouth Acclaim on a very snowy,slick morning and this Jeep Cherokee passed me had to be going 70 and throwing a mini-blizzard in his wake,my 1 & only thought was he must really believe the commercials!
Everything I have is 4WD and I don't go anywhere when we've got ice. These curvy hilly cliff roads just aren't worth it. I love 4WD for muddy conditions and some of the steeper boat ramps.
Better in snow but as quoted above same as any other vehicle on ice. I don't know why some people think 4WD is any better on ice. I've seen many big, 4WD vehicles in the ditch as I've putted along on an icy highway in my 2WD vehicle.
4WD is superior on many forms of icy road. *If* you know how to properly make use of it. Which most people don't.
Instead they go "Oooh, I have 4WD! Let's find a ditch to run off into!".
4WD is superior on many forms of icy road. *If* you know how to properly make use of it. Which most people don't.
Instead they go "Oooh, I have 4WD! Let's find a ditch to run off into!".
I guess those who know how to properly make use of 4WD on icy roads don't live in my neck of the woods. I live in the country with plenty of hilly, curvy, icy roads before getting to paved roads that have been salted/sanded. I do know from experience that tires make a difference.
Which generation of 4runner? I've found that the ABS system on my parents' 1998 (3rd-gen) really extends the stopping distance on slippery surfaces much more than other ABS systems I've tried. I've found it much more effective to threshold brake and keep the ABS from engaging when coming to a stop.
Engaging 4wd on the 4runner definitely helps the "loose" chassis condition (the rear end likes to break loose in a turn) but it does introduce some understeer (the car doesn't turn as much as the steering angle of the front tires). Applying a little brake helps shift weight to the front end to remedy the understeer when in 4wd. Try not to apply the brake in a slippery turn in 2wd though--then you're facing that loose chassis oversteer, when the back end swings out and you have to steering-correct (a good thing to practice).
I do love the Toyotas, but trucks can be a little quirky in the handling department.
I guess those who know how to properly make use of 4WD on icy roads don't live in my neck of the woods. I live in the country with plenty of hilly, curvy, icy roads before getting to paved roads that have been salted/sanded. I do know from experience that tires make a difference.
Yeah, they don't live here, either. You'd think Minnesotans would know how to drive in snow, but many don't. It's just easier to bellyache about how long it takes the gummint to clean off the roads, I guess, than to prepare for conditions. I would say 8 times out of 10 when I see a vehicle hung up on a guardrail or in the ditch, it's an SUV, CUV, or pickup. Out of all proportion to their representation on the road.
'Course, hardly any of those are driving on winter tires. Tires do make a difference. I've yet to meet someone who actually has driven on winter tires anyplace where winter lasts for several months and decided after that that they weren't worth the effort or expense. I'm sure such people exist; just haven't met 'em yet.
I have owned a couple of Tacoma 4WDs over the years. Travelling at the same speed in identically adverse snow conditions the 4WD has better traction and control over a 2WD hands down, although the difference gets closer on ice. I would agree that SUV owners tend to get over confident, drive faster, and end up in the ditch.
ToomuchStuff
1-7-14, 6:09pm
4WD is superior on many forms of icy road. *If* you know how to properly make use of it. Which most people don't.
Instead they go "Oooh, I have 4WD! Let's find a ditch to run off into!".
Bae, you just mentioned those that I tend to see. Yes, three driving tires is better then one (when one is on an ice patch), but too many people here, think when the news says, don't go outside if you don't have to, and let the crews do their jobs, it is an invitation to go out driving in the 4wd.
I think we agree here, it is a tool, not really a toy.
too many people here, think when the news says, don't go outside if you don't have to, and let the crews do their jobs, it is an invitation to go out driving in the 4wd.
It's not helped by advertisements in which the tiny white letters "Professional driver. Closed course." are posted fleetingly on a light background. "Hey, it can do it on TV!" Or the ad in which the voiceover is a radio announcer telling people conditions are horrible and they should stay home -- while the smiling family sets out in their SUV.
We spent ~20 years in an area that averaged around 350" of snow a year and occasionally got over 500". We quickly learned how to drive in snow, what vehicles performed well in snow and how to set up those vehicles to get the most dependable use of them in snow.
For almost the entire time there I drove a 4WD GMC pick-up. No particular brand loyalty based on performance, stuck with it because the GMC dealer was a friend of ours. It is truly amazing how many drivers of big, jacked up, 4WD drive pick-ups feel absolutely bulletproof on snow and ice when, in truth, those are some of the most difficult vehicles to control unless you are very careful about setting them up correctly AND you are a good driver in those conditions. The back end of a truck like that is a squirrel just waiting for a chance to get in front of the front end. I always had very aggressive tires in the winter because we rarely had ice, only deep snow (not what you need for ice). There was always at least 4 sandbags at 60# each over the rear axle in addition to whatever tools or materials I was hauling because having enough weight in the bed is critical to keeping the truck lined up with the road. I carried tow straps and had a 15,000# cable winch mounted on the front of the truck. In two decades I got stuck twice. Once because I had to get off the road fast to avoid someone who had not put the same preventative measures into their vehicle and once because I was stupid.
Again for almost the entire time there DW drove Jeep Grand Cherokees. The quadra-track drive system on the Jeeps was far superior to anything available in almost any other SUV. Being where we were and having 3 kids driving an SUV was a no-brainer. As others have said, the right tires were critical. The Jeep was not the car we used to bust through 30" of snow on the driveway (although it probably would have done it) so we didn't need extremely aggressive tires. It was also the car we would take on family trips so we did not want to put up with high volume tire noise going down the highway when we got out of the mountains. Between the Jeep drive system and good tires no other modifications were needed for those cars. I don't remember a time when DW got stuck.
Now that we're back in the mid-west where ice is more common and a 12" snow would close the world for a few days we don't need the same kind of vehicles. We still have them just because they are still running fine and not that old, but we really don't need them. We are going to trade DW's Jeep in next spring and will probably end up with an all wheel drive Subaru. I will probably keep my truck a few more years. We bought a car for DD2 that is front wheel drive. Its a 2007 that we bought from a dealer. A set of 4 new tires was part of the negotiations. It has excellent traction on slick streets and in light snow. I drove it around in about 6" of snow a few weeks back and it did just fine. DD2 learned to drive in deep snow and pretty extreme conditions so I have full confidence in her ability. The hardest thing to teach her has been to be more aware of what the other guy is doing. I ended up telling her to just assume everyone else on the road is an idiot and she probably wouldn't be disappointed.
I ended up telling her to just assume everyone else on the road is an idiot and she probably wouldn't be disappointed.
Sadly, that is a safe assumption to make even when the roads are clean and dry. :(
San Onofre Guy
1-11-14, 1:21am
I grew up in Maine and got my license the day after the blizzard of 78, I had to back up 150 feet to get a running start after parking on the hill. I passed on that one. I have never driven 4wd. I now live in SoCal buta number of years ago at Mammoth with a 2wd mazda pickup without weight in the back I made it to main lodge without chains on snow covered road. The key was going up early with no traffic and being in the correct gear. I did pass a car with chains that slowed down. If you have room and can use the whole road and play with the speed and clutch such that you always have traction and let up a bit before losing the rear you are ok. Like everything else, 4wd is sold, not bought.
i recall from Maine hearing the 4wd folks say, "made it in thanks to 4wd", then you ask "you made it in for the past 20 years with 2wd and you never mentioned it."
4wd has it's place if you go fishing on jeep trails, deal with the mud or are in places with huge amounts of snow, but those places are few and far between.
I appreciate all the sentiments! Other than a few years in SE TX and 3 years in Phoenix, I have lived in some type of snowy country my whole life. All of that, until now, was spent driving 2WD vehicles so yes, I have some experience. I would vastly prefer to take my 1999 Sentra on my commute (~40 miles) because if there *is* a fender-bender well I can deal with it. Also I got new tires this Sept after slipping around a LOT last April when I had at least one nasty commute every week. Tires make some of the biggest difference, a fact I noticed immediately when DH had the tires rotated in the middle of April. So, snowstorm 1 and 2 I had one configuration of tires which was not fantastic but OK. Snowstorm 3, after tire rotation (the older tires were put up front)-well, I was pretty happy to get to work without whatever it's called when you slide backwards into the car behind you because your tires won't catch. Those tires also hydroplaned one time in the early summer, but I decided to drive more carefully and get new tires in the fall. Which I did, when I had an unexpected day off. Given all that, I *still* noticed a difference on snowy roads with 4WD. We got new tires on the 4Runner (2000) when we bought it, but not special snow tires since our main goal is to have a "weekend warrior" vehicle that we can take on high-clearance roads to trailheads, not necessarily in winter. In the past, I have had to get a ride or get someone (my ILs) to pick me up in a high-clearance vehicle when I would have otherwise been stuck at work during a blizzard so it's nice to know that I could now not have that problem. Storms like that are usually spaced 5-6 years apart, however. The last one that we were in was Dec 2006, after which it was at least 2 days before we could travel anywhere, and then we could only drive downhill on our street for several more days, until the plows had a chance to clear more snow. People with SUVs were able to also go uphill, which was nice for them and showed again the difference. I think/hope we are having a normal winter this year, so I hope not to have to test the whole thing, but it's nice to know I can!
ApatheticNoMore
1-26-14, 1:33am
I think 4WD vehicles are generally less fuel efficient than 2WD, I briefly considered 4WD (Subaru), but of course driving in snow was not a concern at all and gas mileage was.
Gardenarian
9-13-14, 3:59pm
Resurrecting this thread as I've been told we'll need 4WD or AWD when we move to Oregon.
There is a troublesome pass heading from California to Ashland, and everyone says we need 4WD or chains. I've never used chains, so that is scary to me.
We'll be moving in December, but making trips back and forth at least once a month till March or April. And of course we are interested in exploring our new territory in Oregon and going up north to Washington and beyond. I'm also planning on taking up skiing again.
Would you get a 4WD? DH is looking at the Subaru Forester.
I did drive for many years in Massachusetts without 4WD - and had some very scary experiences.
Chains are awful, I sometimes drive to the Alps for winter sports and putting the chains on when you hit snow and taking them off when you hit Tarmac again is a real pain. Winter tyres is the way to go! A 4wd will help you get through the snow but it wont be any better when braking in ice.
Gardenarian
9-14-14, 12:03pm
Thanks Davidwd! The chains even look scary!
In California businesses have sprung up whereby people wait near the mountain passes and charge $10 to put your chains on for you. There's a group on the other side charging $10 to take them off. Like sherpas. Very enterprising, and I'm thankful they'll be there. (I think $10 is around 6 pounds? Anyhow, well worth it.)
Ice is the scariest - I'll never forget hitting some black ice on Route 128 outside Boston - I didn't skid; the car simply floated away. All I could do was grab my friend and pray. Sometimes praying takes the form of loud shrieks and curses.
I don't know whether ice or snow is more of a problem in Oregon - I suspect it's snow, because temperatures don't fluctuate wildly (as they do in Boston, land of ice storms.)
organictex
10-6-14, 9:10pm
a subaru is the way to go...
rodeosweetheart
10-7-14, 12:01pm
Get the Subaru and check out tire rack for snow tire packages.
When we lived in NY state people used studded tires. . .
If you need chains I would try to avoid driving where and when you need them. But that's just me, amajor driving chicken. I hate mountains.
Gardenarian
10-7-14, 1:31pm
We have been advised by residents that "if you want to go anywhere in late fall or winter, you'll want 4WD." Well. that's about 1/2 the year, so we're trying to figure out what to get.
Subaru looks good, but we have a Honda Odyssey minivan. We're thinking we'll sell that and get the AWD Toyota Sienna. We usually take the van when we are going on trips, and we can just throw skis in the back (and will also accommodate dh's sousaphone and upright bass.) The AWD Sienna gets the same mileage as the Odyssey we have, too.
If you need chains I would try to avoid driving where and when you need them. But that's just me, amajor driving chicken.
I'm good with driving in just about any conditions short of a blizzard. But I don't like driving in winter because there are so many other drivers out there who fail to recognize there's anything different about the conditions out there....
We have been advised by residents that "if you want to go anywhere in late fall or winter, you'll want 4WD."
Ask the natives how many of them use winter tires and how many of them settled for whatever tires Subaru stuck on the car.
Gardenarian
10-8-14, 2:23pm
The couple we spoke with have all-weather tires (?) on their everyday car.
They say that's fine when you are just around town (Ashland doesn't accumulate snow) but you must go through mountain passes to leave the Rogue Valley, and they said they would not do that - or even drive to the nearby downhill skiing - without 4WD (which they have on another vehicle.) I don't know what kind of tires they have on their 4WD - I'll need to ask about that.
I've been unable to find a local online bulletin board or yahoo/facebook/google group to talk about general issues, like 4WD. There is one in my town, people post on everything - raccoons in the trash, lost cats, babysitters needed. I'm sure one exists...it sure would be great to find it. Our real estate agent isn't aware of one.
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