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This is so very sad. I'm so glad that his parents at least got him home to die.
I'm sort of curious why kids even go over there. I would never let my kids go. So sad.
Do you think there should be retribution towards North Korea? What should it be?
Kim Jong Un is quite crazy.
What a horrible nightmare and tragedy for this young man's family.
Such a waste! They killed that young man just because they could. Sanctions do not matter because he is crazy and does not care how much his own people suffer. YOu can't stop adults from doing anything but I certainly would try. If his parents were paying for his college I would have used that as a threat to not pay to keep one of my kids home.
Such a sad tragedy. Sometimes, you can't really tell 21 year olds what to do, and they will go off to experience the world. Sadly, this poor kid went to the wrong place, and I think it is a true shame that that tour company profits from endangering people in the name of adventure travel.
I don't understand his condition when he returned--how did he remain alive with no ventilator given his apparent injuries? Such a mystery; I wish they could get some answers as to what happened to him.
Sad so sad.
I just think the "Leader" is just pushing every button to see what the USA will do. This just seemed like one more notch for him.
Yes, it's hard to believe he survived as long as he did, since I think he's been in a coma for a year? The B.S. about botulism and a sleeping pill is absurd. My heart aches for his parents......thinking about him all this time over there. And seeing the initial pics of him crying and begging for forgiveness. I can't imagine that agony. Was this a college group trip sponsored by the college?
Definitely not a college tour. It was these folks, apparently:
http://www.youngpioneertours.com/
their motto: Specialising in North Korea tours, we provide “budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from”.
You'd think they would have changed that by now.
They made a statement about the death of the young man:
Statement Regarding Otto Warmbier
Date: June 20, 2017 By Young Pioneer Tours Categories: blog news Tags: North Korea No comments
http://www.youngpioneertours.com/wp-...2.14.38-PM.png
Our deepest sympathies are with Otto Warmbier and those who loved him. We had held onto hope that he might recover, and have the life that he should have had, but now those hopes are gone, and we too are reeling with the shock of a young man's life taken well before his time.
The devastating loss of Otto Warmbier's life has led us to reconsider our position on accepting American tourists. There had not been any previous detainment in North Korea that has ended with such tragic finality and we have been struggling to process the result. Now, the assessment of risk for Americans visiting North Korea has become too high.
The way his detention was handled was appalling, and a tragedy like this must never be repeated. Despite constant requests, we were denied any opportunity to meet him or anyone in contact with him in Pyongyang, only receiving assurances that he was fine. There has still been almost no information disclosed about his period in detention. Considering these facts and this tragic outcome we will no longer be organising tours for US citizens to North Korea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyA
My thoughts exactly, I would never let my kids go to North Korea.
Young people want to push the limits and this is a dangerous country.
Thanks for that link and info Tybee. It seems like the travel company was a bit too late in worrying about these things.
I think I could have scared my kids into not going there. I mean, it's been crazy for quite a while. I think I would even have had some ultimatums. But honestly, I don't think my kids would have been interested.
DS was sort of approached about helping with a film in Iran. I'm glad he was open to us saying (NO WAY!!).
The article said that they would no long offer tours to U.S. citizens. Can all sorts of other country's citizens go there, without problems? I mean I know Kim Jong Un hates the U.S. in particular, but it seems like other countries would have fears going too.
A few of my relatives visited North Korea, in September of 1950. They tell me it wasn't a very hospitable tourist destination, even back then.
I had an uncle who visited the Chosin Reservoir, but the beach was closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
A late friend/former neighbor went missing there. His parents asked a local someone in their lodge if he could find out anything, and he called his old oval office and made an inquiry.
My friend was rescued and taken to a ship while he recovered, where the initials PI sewn on his uniform.
The guys out of office, without their finger on the bombs, are better to deal with this, then the ones in, IMHO.
Hopefully, all that where's-your-white-privilege-now-frat-boy nastiness will come to an end. But in our hate-addled times, who knows?
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...s-hate-problem
Why change it, they should embrace it as part of the name. Clearly no false advertising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
The comedy argument. Comedy's job is to find a line and cross it, make people uncomfortable and reflective. Comedian's comedians, tend to leave those lines way past where anyone can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
In the end, it is rare that one can actually help someone, who doesn't want to help themselves.
I just feel for the family's pain, as I am the mother of three boys, and I can't see the comedy about someone's suffering then, when he was imprisoned and brutalized, or now, when he is dead.
Young people think they are invincible. We need to ban all travel for tourists to this country. Nothing funny about any of this crap.
There was a young woamn blathering on the MMm forums a year or so,ago about goong to North Korea. She was so into that idea, and couldnt really answer why she was docused on that country tomvisit. But I imagine it had to do with rebellion and "I know better than you" chitzpah of the youtful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I do think our state department should be up to date with advisories on where it might not be safe to travel. Beyond that, though, I'm fine with people doing what they want. But I'm also not going to feel to terribly sorry for them if they go somewhere dangerous and bad things happen. Like those kids that got captured by the Iranian government a few years ago. It's hard for me to get upset when bad things happen to someone who travels to a country that has hostile relations with the US.
Young people don't think it will happen to them so yes I still feel bad for them. If you are older and still go then probably not so much.
As far as a ban for people in the U.S. going to North Korea..........I know it ticks some people off for the government to tell them where they can't go, but it's unfair to go to such a place and then expect the government to use all it's resources to help get them back when they are treated badly, imprisoned, tortured, etc. And I'm sure the family members would certainly expect that help.
I guess I can't get beyond the horror of him coming back in a coma and dying, and I hope he was able to be at peace with his family, at least.
Me too Tybee. I get so sad just thinking about it. But.....I think it meant so much to them to have him here before he died......even a day or 2. And even though he was in a coma, surely he felt their presence. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Yes, I am thinking that is probably why he could be at peace and let go, because he was back with his family. It is so horrifying to think of what he went through.
I agree with you that it's unfair for the family to expect the government to intervene to try to get people back if they've gone somewhere like North Korea or Iran. The state department should be clear in their travel advisories that assistance won't be forthcoming in certain countries with governments known to be hostile to American citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyA
While I don't understand the appeal of a trip to North Korea, and this is a terribly sad outcome, I absolutely don't think it should be the government's role to make risk taking or stupidity illegal.
Agreed. I don't where I signed over to the Federal government the power to tell me where I can and cannot travel. And I don't see where I asked them to come rescue me if there's trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I maintain a high-risk S&R policy, through my satellite phone carrier. When I first started subscribing to this, only two countries were excluded: North Korea and Iraq. The list is longer these days: http://www.geosalliance.com/iercc/country-alerts/
My daughter carries a similar policy. Earlier this year she was heading to Turkey for an archeological expedition, but due to the situation there, and upon the advice of the State Department and her academic institution's risk management folks (who have ample resources of their own...), the research has been put off for "a while", even though the initial plan included armed guards for the team. Nobody however stepped in to forbid it.
It still irks me that I can't go to Cuba to visit, while just a few miles across the border, my Canadian neighbors can hop on cheap flights and have sun-and-fun. America....freedom....
But you can, there's a few more hoops to jump through but it's totally doable.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I hate hoops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Some people will want to do risky and possibly foolish things. Travel to despotic pestholes. Cave diving. Dining on Fugu. Majoring in English.
I don't necessarily think it is government's place to tell adults what activities they can engage in, or in most cases to bail them out. Although I do think it appropriate to consider some kind of action when our citizens are murdered or abused abroad. If only to discourage that kind of behavior in the future.
:laff:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Is that one of those risky activities where the guy says "hold my beer. Watch this!"Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Hey, I've been to the Mount Kilamanjaro of risky academic activities: I was a THEATRE major.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
As the therapist from SNL would tell you, "have you looked at yourself? You need to look at yourself. catherine, take a look at yourself." :~)Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
It seems appropriate that North Korea in some manor should be relieved of the equivalent of a pound of flesh.....since a pound is roughly 464 grams and a typical heart weighs about 300 grams more or less, that leaves about 164 leftover grams. Since the people responsible seem to have very small hearts......that should at least give us the right to a buy one get one free without a coupon. An eye for an eye and an eye so to speak. We are going to do this thing bigly.
SO what will happen today or tomorrow with the issues at hand? I am worried or concerned.
I am worried that the psychopath who is supposed to be our president will start a war.
both sides are dangerous
Absolutely! Anyone that kills their own family members is also a psychopath.
Yes. One side beats you to death for stealing a poster, and the other side tweets that you spoiled the weekend because you launched a missile. Same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BikingLady