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Thread: The Steady-State Economy vs. "Growth"

  1. #21
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    50% of the US population call the other 50% takers and begrudge them even a dollar of assistance they don't "deserve".

    For better or worse Hell will freeze over before that attitude changes.

  2. #22
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    50% of the US population call the other 50% takers and begrudge them even a dollar of assistance they don't "deserve".

    For better or worse Hell will freeze over before that attitude changes.
    Well, when the environment collapses and the financial system collapses, and the 50% begrudgers all of a sudden need help, we'll see if they think THEY deserve it.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  3. #23
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    50% of the US population call the other 50% takers and begrudge them even a dollar of assistance they don't "deserve".

    For better or worse Hell will freeze over before that attitude changes.
    Conversely, 50% of the population call the other 50% greedy, uncaring and selfish, making it hard for them to feel good about supporting their critics.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #24
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Conversely, 50% of the population call the other 50% greedy, uncaring and selfish, making it hard for them to feel good about supporting their critics.
    Don't you think that if paradigms were formed that enabled us to see us all as one body and not a collection of parasites and hosts, we might be able to disable the labels of "greedy" and "undeserving poor"? And how might we achieve that? Perhaps by making interdependence a higher value than independence.

    Nature flourishes on the precept of interdependence. We have lost that, to our detriment.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #25
    Low Tech grunt iris lily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Conversely, 50% of the population call the other 50% greedy, uncaring and selfish, making it hard for them to feel good about supporting their critics.
    And they seem ungrateful for any support, or even fail to acknowledge that there ARE support systems.

    Trashing my gift doesn't make me want to give more.

    And now to be polite, I would like to thank Alan for his generous support in Obamacare subsidies which I am planning to use within the next couple of years.

  6. #26
    Low Tech grunt iris lily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Don't you think that if paradigms were formed that enabled us to see us all as one body and not a collection of parasites and hosts, we might be able to disable the labels of "greedy" and "undeserving poor"? And how might we achieve that? Perhaps by making interdependence a higher value than independence.

    Nature flourishes on the precept of interdependence. We have lost that, to our detriment.
    For one thing, there are plenty of examples in Nature where one organism takes over when the others surrounding that one do not keep it in check, Kudzu vine immediately comes to mind. Gooseneck loosestrife in my garden is the second thing to come to mind. The plant world doesn't just sweetly coexist with each one healthy and happy with it's neighbors, they fight for nutrient resources. Each year the plant colonies change in my garden because one plant has won out over another, thriving more than others because they "got the goods."

    Nature is always an interesting analogy in any argument, one can usually find argument to support any side.

    This thread is about the financial world. Looking at parasites (your word) from a purely financial view, how are they contributing to "interdependance?" They aren't. I'm not saying that they can't contribute to society in other ways, but financially--no.

  7. #27
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lily View Post
    And they seem ungrateful for any support, or even fail to acknowledge that there ARE support systems.

    Trashing my gift doesn't make me want to give more.

    And now to be polite, I would like to thank Alan for his generous support in Obamacare subsidies which I am planning to use within the next couple of years.
    I agree with both of you.. We have created this us vs. them system. Is it nature or nurture? Well, in nature, species cooperate and depend upon each other. We've created a system in which some squirrels enslave other squirrels to get their nuts, which they sit on and which serve no purpose other than to make the squirrels feel good that they have more nuts than other squirrels. Crazy? Well, that's the insanity we've created by ignoring natural systems.

    I'd say the status quo has brainwashed us. There are human systems that exist, have existed, or can exist that can address this exploitative monster of separation that we've created.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #28
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    I always think of my grandparents generation and how they and theirs led their lives. They were farmers/ranchers/shopkeepers who provided for their own families. They knew how to do just about anything practical or they helped each other. The little town close by had a general store, churches, post office etc. - the basics of a village. The shopkeepers did not desire to get rich or build more stores. They just wanted enough to keep their families aloft - to sustain. They pretty much lived year to year saving a bit for their old age. In nature it seems, it is the so-called invasive species that dominate but usually when the other plants are not healthy or ecologically balanced.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Don't you think that if paradigms were formed that enabled us to see us all as one body and not a collection of parasites and hosts, we might be able to disable the labels of "greedy" and "undeserving poor"? And how might we achieve that? Perhaps by making interdependence a higher value than independence.
    The problem, Catherine, is that would be perceived by the "greedy" as sharing what they think they're entitled to control with the "undeserving poor". Some would even consider a suggestion that "interdependence [should have] a higher value than independence" as "socialism" or "communism", or would apply some other appellation with nefarious undertones.

  10. #30
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Elephant in the room: population.


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