Funny, I find the Caddy ad to be less offensive. It's more honest- work hard so you can buy our expensive stuff. The Ford ad tries to convert a consumer purchase into a theme or lifestyle purchase the same way SUV ads do.
Funny, I find the Caddy ad to be less offensive. It's more honest- work hard so you can buy our expensive stuff. The Ford ad tries to convert a consumer purchase into a theme or lifestyle purchase the same way SUV ads do.
least motivating reason to work hard EVAH!! Plus I don't think it's honest at all, I don't think wanting more stuff has anything whatsoever to do with the lack of vacation time as policy, I think they are entirely unrelated. It's not like vacation time versus fancy cars and other stuff was ever put to a public referendum. Why things actually evolved that way. Not sure. I've heard it has to do with American unions in the first half of the 20th century only negotiating for narrow pay increases for their members rather than more vacation time for all working people like they did in other countries. I'm sure it does come down to some kind of historical accident like that (like employer provided healthcare does), rather than what people actually want. Honest I guess would be a whole documentary on labor history examining the question - but it would make a lousy car commercial! Honest would be like "yea your really getting screwed with the lack of vacation time in the u.s., you can try, but it is unlikely to be something you'll see changes for in your lifetime. It sucks, oh well, and then you die - and you probably won't die regretting you didn't spend more time in the office" Or maybe honest would be: work hard at a job you hate, so you can buy stuff you don't need, to impress people you don't like - oh and also so you can buy the necessities of life you do need, because otherwise you'll be homeless, the end.Originally Posted by Yossarian
Well if something is actually produced more sustainably, under better working conditions etc. - then sure I'd pay for it, but with the car it's purely irrational. But I like the ad and the same time would never buy a car for that reason. Like add != buy car. Which makes it ineffective advertising, yea well I quite sure I'm not the target market who would buy a car based on a commercial anyway. But I still like the ad[The Ford ad tries to convert a consumer purchase into a theme or lifestyle purchase the same way SUV ads do.
Trees don't grow on money
I disagree. By way of comparison per capita PPP is 50% higher in the US than France. Protestant work ethic, American dream, etc. There are plenty of threads in the social fabric that tie hard work to obtaining tangible goods. In my experience some people work hard to afford nice houses, cars, clothes, trips, or any number of other things.
I like the Tyler Durden quote- "Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need." It's not me. I assume it's not you. But it would be foolish to think the entire market is people like us.
I suspect men sometimes work hard to have impressive things to impress women - that I believeI disagree. By way of comparison per capita PPP is 50% higher in the US than France. Protestant work ethic, American dream, etc. There are plenty of threads in the social fabric that tie hard work to obtaining tangible goods. In my experience some people work hard to afford nice houses, cars, clothes, trips, or any number of other things.
Yea, I think what really happens is people work jobs to survive pretty much (stating the obvious here - duh - that's why people work), buying additional stuff if they can afford it often becomes compensatory because it's what there is to do.I like the Tyler Durden quote- "Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need."
I'm not sure there aren't at least as many people who would rather have more time off given how many times I have heard it expressed. Coworkers get back from a trip to Spain - "that's the life there, they have time to live, all we do in this country is work, we don't live, etc" - sure it's a tourist perspective but all wistful but resigned. Coworker working weekends, I mention "we should get comp time if we work most of the day on a weekend day", agreement that comp time would be way better than getting extra pay for overtime, way preferable, but knowing we don't make the policy, it is what it is. Different coworkers expressing "I wish I could work part-time" to me. But mostly people know that all this is "things they can not change" (at least not easily).It's not me. I assume it's not you. But it would be foolish to think the entire market is people like us.
Trees don't grow on money
By the same token I suspect many women work hard to buy things to impress men. New breasts, new lips, new face :-)!I suspect men sometimes work hard to have impressive things to impress women - that I believe
RoseFI,
not sure if this is related to how you felt differently when you were no longer a debtor and became FI, but I read an interesting article in More magazine a few months ago. It profiled a fiction writer whose book was chosen by Oprah years ago, almost instantly making her well off. She's married and has a family and was enjoying life, til her husband lost their money by investing with a financial swindler.
It appears she still has some of the money (they didn't have to decamp to a homeless shelter or anything like that), but what struck me was her sadness over the charitable endeavors she could no longer afford to support. It wasn't the "I'm a bigshot look at me" feeling, but just the real feeling of helping to make a difference with others that she enjoyed but is no longer able to do. It was an interesting outlook on that aspect of a rags-to-riches-to-somewhat rags story.
One thing I like is earning enough to buy products made more responsibly. Like ok I bought a pair of shoes recently, kind of pricey (though we're not talking status shoes or anything, but not cheap) and I did feel good they were made in the U.S. - not by slave labor in China or something (or prison labor in the U.S. I don't think), and I was again glad to have a decent income (not to have a job - because I hate that - but the money part is okay). Yea 3 shoes in as many months because I was down to wearing one pair with holes in it before - I think I can stop the shoe buying now. But anyway, I like earning enough to buy the product made by people whose job conditions I hope are not much worse than my own, which is not about being rich (because yea right), it's about being middle class. How do your like your conspicuous consumption?
Trees don't grow on money
Thanks for asking for clarification, Aroha. The phenomena that I find crazy and abhorent is NOT that of being out of debt! But rather the phenomena that the less financially vulnerable one is, the more one is insulated from consequences of one's own and others' actions, and the easier it is to solve problems by throwing money at them, rather than exercising creativity and collaboration and, in some cases, compassion and other important social skills. On the other hand, our society is increasingly one where money is the only way to solve most problems, and that means people without sufficient capital are more vulnerable to all types of risks, without the means to mitigate those risks through insurance, legal representation, warranties, etc.
Just for the record, I don't consider myself FI in the sense that Joe Dominguez used, not at all. If we lived like Joe, perhaps we would be, but we definitely do not choose to live that way. (e.g. sharing a house with ~8 other adults.) I'm more than willing to spend more money for things that are high quality and made/distributed according to my values, a la ApatheticNoMore. To me, it really is about being mindful of consequences, and balancing (or reckoning with) the personal consequences and the global consequences. For right or wrong, we actually feel obligated to spend money in that way, e.g. supporting causes and businesses that are doing good in the world or in our community, and feel that otherwise it would be hoarding, more than it would be just prudent frugality. At least currently, we're willing to participate in the economy as both workers and as consumers, to live that way, though our main emphasis/goal is being good citizens.
I don't know that I see choosing the option that you prefer if you can afford it as a moral shortcoming.
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