Ho Hum..........just another school shooting...............yawn.....

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yeah, I know. It's a mystery, isn't it! It's kind of like my friend who can't for the life of her understand why her kid is gaining so much weight and becoming unhealthy. She says to me...
"I just don't understand it. I put the Twinkies on the high self but he still gets them. The cookies are in the cookie jar, out of sight, but he still goes through them faster than a speeding bullet. After I go to the store, it only takes him a few days to go through 3 bags of chips, 4 boxes of ding dongs, a jumbo bag of candy bars and every box of cocoa puffs in the house! And when I bake 2 dozen cupcakes on the weekend, he eats every single one! I don't know what to do!"

That's a very simplified example. Obesity in the modern world, everywhere there is sufficient calories, is precisely such a mystery, clearly there is a calorie excess but what causes the overeating?

Clearly people get killed with guns (although occasionally with other things) but this probably also needs to be combined with a badly dysfunctional society to lead to the mass killings it does in the U.S.. But then things like chronic war-making would serve as condemnation enough of the culture even if there were no mass shootings. And then your back to: why are some societies so violent?

And I'm really not convinced there is any guarantee that people wouldn't get guns even if they were illegal (nor of course would I expect the law to be enforced equally, not if drug laws are any example). When I talked about different ways of approaching the issue though I can't say I'm strongly convinced of any video game theories as the cause, though it would be hard to argue graphic gore was *good* for people but saying it makes mass murders takes a little more than that.

[Tenngal]

Maybe it has to do with the media today, the instant attention?

[Gregg]

Maybe it has to do with the media today, the instant attention?

That certainly seems to play a part in at least some of the shootings. There are several instances of these kids leaving behind messages with themes like "I'll show them" or "now they'll notice me" or even "now I'll be famous". It just makes a tragic situation even sadder when you think about it.

[pinkytoe]

How about that our society has become extremely impulsive about everything? Remember the marshmallow experiment with kids, where some kids maintained self-control and did not eat them as instructed but others did the minute the adults left the room? Studies show that those same kids who stifled their impulsive urges did not fall prey to things like unwanted pregnancies, unfinished educations, crime etc. Little self control for lack of a better word...thinking about what the outcome might be before following through.

[ApatheticNoMore]

If it's premeditated as such killings seem to be far more often than not (whole plans in many cases), then it's not an impulse.

[creaker]

That certainly seems to play a part in at least some of the shootings. There are several instances of these kids leaving behind messages with themes like "I'll show them" or "now they'll notice me" or even "now I'll be famous". It just makes a tragic situation even sadder when you think about it.

I've heard some discussion, and actual action taken on this. Trying to push the focus onto the heroes of the event rather than 24x7 focus on the shooter. I think it's a good idea.

[peggy]

That's a very simplified example. Obesity in the modern world, everywhere there is sufficient calories, is precisely such a mystery, clearly there is a calorie excess but what causes the overeating?

Clearly people get killed with guns (although occasionally with other things) but this probably also needs to be combined with a badly dysfunctional society to lead to the mass killings it does in the U.S.. But then things like chronic war-making would serve as condemnation enough of the culture even if there were no mass shootings. And then your back to: why are some societies so violent?

And I'm really not convinced there is any guarantee that people wouldn't get guns even if they were illegal (nor of course would I expect the law to be enforced equally, not if drug laws are any example). When I talked about different ways of approaching the issue though I can't say I'm strongly convinced of any video game theories as the cause, though it would be hard to argue graphic gore was *good* for people but saying it makes mass murders takes a little more than that.

My point wasn't a total ban. Of course you can't/shouldn't ban all chips, cookies, candy, etc...It would be impossible, on many levels. And you can't/shouldn't ban guns. Again, impossible. But just as my hypothetical friend should limit easy access to the junk food, we shold try to limit easy access to guns. And yes they are 'just' a tool, but they are a tool with a sole purpose to kill. That's what the tool is designed for, and trying to make light of that, or ignore that truth altogether is irresponsible and clearly dangerous to our society. We won't be able to control easy access, or start addressing this problem until gun owners...no, gun nuts...agree to talk sensibly about the issue.
*I say gun nuts because I believe most gun owners are for good gun laws.

This kid got that gun from somewhere, and whoever he got it from, I believe should stand trial for accessory to murder. His folks, a friends parents...whoever/where ever.
But, of course, if he bought it at a gun show or through craigs list from a 'private collector', there is no way to trace this weapon back to the last 'responsible' owner.

Every gun sale should be registered. Every one. If a gun is used in a crime, that gun could then be traced back to the last 'responsible' person who owned/sold it. If that last owner sold it at a gun show, or on craigs list, and had the sale properly registered, then they would be fairly safe from prosecution. if however it comes out that this 'responsible' gun owner seems to sell a lot of guns that just seem to wind up in criminals hands, then they won't be safe from investigation/prosecution.
And yes, if the same name keeps popping up on those sales receipts/registrations as the buyer, again, worthy of investigation.
If your gun is lost or stolen, you would report that, and again you are protected from the law. However, if you seem to be 'robbed' with regularity, again, investigation.

It isn't video games, or teenage angst, or kids are so so so horrible today (those dang kids just won't keep off my lawn!). It isn't the attitude of these gosh darn kids today..what generation hasn't said kids today are selfish, greedy and don't have respect. It's guns, and the ATTITUDE towards guns.
I'm sure you went to a well armed school Alan, apparently, but MOST schools didn't sport 40 or 50 guns in the parking lot. In fact, most schools didn't HAVE a very big parking lot because kids back then didn't expect to have a car. Having a car wasn't an automatic thing. We walked or rode our bikes.

Today, with the NRAs urging, people are being conditioned to see guns not as something to respect and use cautiously, as I'm sure you were taught, but as an accessory to wear/carry everywhere...church, grocery, bar, school, where ever you want. In fact, if you listen to NRA blathering, it's actually NECESSARY to be armed at all times! Don't leave the house without packing a pistol! Going to eat at the local restaurant? Better carry a gun! And of course let's encourage red neck mouth breathers to sling an assault rifle over the shoulder and parade through the local mall, or target, or grocery store. Maybe it wouldn't have occurred to your classmates to shoot up the school, but I also bet it wouldn't occur to them that they need to be armed to buy milk. It's not the kids, it's the attitudes.

Guns have gone from a tool to hunt with, to a weapon to intimidate (guns at political rallies), to force your point of view, and intimidate (idiots armed at the mall), to whip up the lowest common denominator in ideological idiocy (Sarah Palin: "Lock and Load"), and have become the 'patriotic' badge/excuse of choice for every paranoid, Wyatt Earp wanna be who has visions of grandeur in their save-the-day scenario from a violent world that ironically they (through their own paranoia) have/are creating.
JMO

[LDAHL]

I've heard some discussion, and actual action taken on this. Trying to push the focus onto the heroes of the event rather than 24x7 focus on the shooter. I think it's a good idea.

I believe that happened after Aurora. The local officials didn't mention the shooter's name, but the media carrion-feeders couldn't resist.

It's not the kind of thing I suppose you could legislate, but I would think a healthier culture might make it a breach of acceptable standards.

[kib]

Ok. Just passing this along. I'm currently watching a documentary called "Wisconsin Death Trip". ... no no, don't bother, it's absolutely awful. It's about a supposed "bizarre" series of tragedies and apparent acts of lunacy that occurred in Black River Falls and surrounds during the years 1890 - 1900. Although I see no Bizarre Confluence, it does seem to me that most of the weird and stupid things various people here were doing weren't all that different from incidents we're currently experiencing -harsh conditions leading to religious fanaticism, shootings, mysterious illness, suicide, vandalism, drug abuse, 'depravity'. Sort of ... reassuring? We've always been nuts, or at least prone to extreme breakdown under stress?

[Gregg]

I'm sure you went to a well armed school Alan, apparently, but MOST schools didn't sport 40 or 50 guns in the parking lot. In fact, most schools didn't HAVE a very big parking lot because kids back then didn't expect to have a car. Having a car wasn't an automatic thing. We walked or rode our bikes.

I know that wasn't everyone's experience, but there are a lot of us of this certain age that grew up in rural settings where that was the case. There was a much larger percentage of the population on farms and in small (and very small) towns 40 or 50 years ago. I can't speak for everyone in that situation, but we did expect to have a car because the bus wouldn't get us to and from school for any extracurricular activities and our parents couldn't afford to take time away from the farm to be a taxi. Don't want to start an argument about it, but another part of it was that we all hunted and so always had guns in the car with us. Just the fact that the situation was more common then than now combined with the idea that I don't remember ever hearing about any incident (1979 high school grad here) is what interests me. Trying to figure out what changed in society from then to now just seems like a logical starting point.

Guns have gone from a tool to hunt with, to a weapon to intimidate (guns at political rallies), to force your point of view, and intimidate (idiots armed at the mall), to whip up the lowest common denominator in ideological idiocy (Sarah Palin: "Lock and Load"), and have become the 'patriotic' badge/excuse of choice for every paranoid, Wyatt Earp wanna be who has visions of grandeur in their save-the-day scenario from a violent world that ironically they (through their own paranoia) have/are creating.
JMO

I don't agree 100%, but I don't think you're wrong, either. As stated above, we all had guns and we all hunted when I was a kid. That's what guns were for. That and various target shooting events for sport (that were designed to make us more efficient hunters). I know a lot of people right now that own guns that have never hunted and never will hunt. I didn't know anyone like that 40 years ago. Granted that was a very small, very rural town so hardly a cross section of America, but even just as anecdotal evidence its still interesting and, I think, a valid argument.