The Five Stages of Collapse

[Ultralight]

I just started reading The Five Stages of Collapse by Orlov. Whoa!!! Just a handful of pages in and I am totally impressed.

[Williamsmith]

I've read much of Orlovs stuff. I believe you have to be willing to expose yourself to ideas that challenge your boundaries. Otherwise all you do is create your own propaganda and reinforce ideas you might not have thought completely through. I'm not saying you have to agree with or adopt anything just because it's outside the lines.....like a Russian author predicting the fall of American culture, peak oil, economic collapse and societal breakdown end of the world stuff. But you have to give him your stage for long enough to see if there is anything worthwhile there.

What he has to say about economics is his best topic, to me. For instance, our almost total reliance on strangers to provide survival needs like heat, shelter, and food. Our worship of money as the means by which survival is fulfilled. And our almost religious support of pure capitalism as the most efficient method of doing business.

I believe he underestimates the potential of the United States to adopt ways to transition each stage of the collapse. And secretly he seems to be hoping for it to happen a little sooner than later. Dmitri is still a comrade in arms floating around somewhere on international waters.

[Kestra]

I've read much of Orlovs stuff. I believe you have to be willing to expose yourself to ideas that challenge your boundaries. Otherwise all you do is create your own propaganda and reinforce ideas you might not have thought completely through. I'm not saying you have to agree with or adopt anything just because it's outside the lines.....like a Russian author predicting the fall of American culture, peak oil, economic collapse and societal breakdown end of the world stuff. But you have to give him your stage for long enough to see if there is anything worthwhile there.

What he has to say about economics is his best topic, to me. For instance, our almost total reliance on strangers to provide survival needs like heat, shelter, and food. Our worship of money as the means by which survival is fulfilled. And our almost religious support of pure capitalism as the most efficient method of doing business.

I believe he underestimates the potential of the United States to adopt ways to transition each stage of the collapse. And secretly he seems to be hoping for it to happen a little sooner than later. Dmitri is still a comrade in arms floating around somewhere on international waters.

The bolded is a big concern of mine, though I've yet to do much about it. Part of living that way for your entire life is that freeing yourself from that trap feels like a monumental undertaking and you don't even know where to start. My grandparents would have known what to do, but that knowledge gets lost so quickly.

[Ultralight]

I finished this book this morning. I can say with some confidence that it gave me a nightmare or two. But the book is written with some dark humor, so I laughed sometimes too.

Great book. Worth a read!

[rodeosweetheart]

"For instance, our almost total reliance on strangers to provide survival needs like heat, shelter, and food. "
This bolded sentence fragment struck me.

When we lived on our farm in upstate New York, it was the time in our live when we were the farthest from that. I gathered wood each day for the woodstove and apples to cook and eat and the shelter was 200 years old, paid for, ours. So were the apple trees--150 years old, I mean. I remember feeling the the house, the land, the woods--they were all taking care of me.
It was a wonderful feeling, to have my survival needs met by walking out my back door.

[Ultralight]

"For instance, our almost total reliance on strangers to provide survival needs like heat, shelter, and food. "
This bolded sentence fragment struck me.

When we lived on our farm in upstate New York, it was the time in our live when we were the farthest from that. I gathered wood each day for the woodstove and apples to cook and eat and the shelter was 200 years old, paid for, ours. So were the apple trees--150 years old, I mean. I remember feeling the the house, the land, the woods--they were all taking care of me.
It was a wonderful feeling, to have my survival needs met by walking out my back door.

Whoa! I can only imagine. Very cool.

Some friends and acquaintances of mine think I am so "wild" because I can catch fish, forage berries, butcher a duck, and grow a simple garden.

I remember foraging berries at a park forest. An upper middle class guy jogged up to me and said: "I am warning you! Those are poisonous!"
I acted sort of confused and said: "They are...?"
He said: "Yes, very poisonous."
I could tell this guy was serious and worried. So I said: "I dunno... there is only one way to find out, right?"
He goes: "Don't do it!!!"
Then I ate one.
He said" "I tried to warn you. I tried to warn you!" and then he jogged away.

But! Later some immigrants, women from Africa, walked by. They asked to try the berries. I gave them some and they trusted me and ate them. They said: "They are so sweet! Very good!"

I remarked to a friend later: "Come the zombie apocalypse, those women will eat berries. Everyone else will eat each other." Too dark?! hahaha

The truth is that I'd be in darn near the same bad fix as anyone else in a collapse, but maybe I'd last a little longer because of a handful of self-sufficiency skills and a knack for needing very little/doing without.

[Gardenarian]

Thanks for posting - I'm going to try and get the book tomorrow.

[freshstart]

Whoa! I can only imagine. Very cool.

Some friends and acquaintances of mine think I am so "wild" because I can catch fish, forage berries, butcher a duck, and grow a simple garden.

I could tell this guy was serious and worried. So I said: "I dunno... there is only one way to find out, right?"
He goes: "Don't do it!!!"
Then I ate one.
He said" "I tried to warn you. I tried to warn you!" and then he jogged away.

But! Later some immigrants, women from Africa, walked by. They asked to try the berries. I gave them some and they trusted me and ate them. They said: "They are so sweet! Very good!"

I remarked to a friend later: "Come the zombie apocalypse, those women will eat berries. Everyone else will eat each other." Too dark?! hahaha

The truth is that I'd be in darn near the same bad fix as anyone else in a collapse, but maybe I'd last a little longer because of a handful of self-sufficiency skills and a knack for needing very little/doing without.

OMG, that was funny! the people at your work sound very closed minded, maybe tell the poison berry story, get everyone laughing and a few days later, bring in a berry pie. I think you'll have leftovers, lol

[JaneV2.0]

...

What he has to say about economics is his best topic, to me. For instance, our almost total reliance on strangers to provide survival needs like heat, shelter, and food. Our worship of money as the means by which survival is fulfilled. And our almost religious support of pure capitalism as the most efficient method of doing business.

I believe he underestimates the potential of the United States to adopt ways to transition each stage of the collapse. And secretly he seems to be hoping for it to happen a little sooner than later. Dmitri is still a comrade in arms floating around somewhere on international waters.

I haven't read any Orlov and probably won't. I don't think doomsters add much to the conversation--aside from calling attention to the problem; maybe that's enough--and their lip-licking anticipation of global disasters is more than I can stomach. A lot of them do seem to discount the part technology and will can play in turning this ship around. But we had better get started...

[catherine]

I generally agree, with you, jane. Interested in the environment/permaculture as I am, I gravitate towards those books, which invariably talk doomsday. I got sick of Bill McKibben, as much as I really like him, because how many statistics about CO2 can one person take?

However, I really like Derrick Jensen, and he's another one who believes that our current system will, and must, implode--and the sooner the better in order to stop the bleeding of environmental devastation--loss of biodiversity, clean air, clean water, arable soil, etc.

It's more optimistic to believe in the current "Great Turning" as Joanna Macy calls it, or the Blessed Unrest as Paul Hawken calls it. Technology will definitely come in to play when Armageddon happens, but I would prefer to trust in the growing numbers of people who are already starting to build a new vision.

I might try Orlov's book--sounds interesting.