Should I "downsize" my old friend...?

[kally]

changed

[Ultralight]

Where drinking and gun play starts all over again.

freshstart:

Your contributions and insights in this thread have been especially helpful.

The above quote is a worrisome thing. I have thought about that too. Suppose he gets well, dries out, and goes home. His identity is totally wrapped up in being a gun nut and a hard drinkin' guy. He'd have to construct a new identity, a new social circle, a new way of life. Throw in the fact that he needs to find a new job too, or get on disability (depending on the condition of his leg and other health problems). Now that is going to be difficult -- being 36, in your hometown of 238 people and trying to find a new job or adjust to being on disability and finding a new social circle and a new identity.

[Ultralight]

There is obviously not one easy answer. Every situation takes everyone touched by it convinced they must get involved. The sticky point is are you willing to intervene if it increases your risk of becoming uncomfortable or a target for the mentally ill. It is easier to just fade away and hope nothing else happens. But is it the moral, right, responsible thing to do. I don't know.

Have no doubt. The system may fail you and him. Lots of loopholes. The mental health treatment facilities are not always effective. In my neck of the woods, if you enter voluntarily...you keep your guns. And you check out any time you want. That was always a good bargaining chip to play when trying to convince someone to put down their gun and go get help. But it also just put the genie back in the bottle temporarily.

Also if if he does get arrested, lots of defense attorneys and district attorney's like to fast track the case by having the person plead guilty to a charge that doesn't carry a firearm prohibition but requires mental health care. Later if the hospital doesn't fix the problem, they go back to messing with guns.

Had you called when the firearm was pointed at you and I responded......the gun would have been seized, charges filed and an involuntary admittance to mental health may or may not have followed. Because getting a mental health warrant is a tough standard to reach. They have to be a clear danger to themselves or another person and it has to be from a mental defect.....not just criminal behavior. The person likely would have spent some pre trial time in jail unless he could put up serious bond money and would have bond conditions to stay out of contact with victims and witnesses. It would have been a huge wake up call.

Yes, not an easy answer. Even after all attempts are made to intervene, sometimes the person freaks out, gets a gun and shoots some people close to them and then kills himself. It happens.......its life. It sucks if you are friend or family.

There are a lot of frightening scenarios. What I hope is that, once dried out, he can regain some sanity.

[Float On]

Maybe send card with talk about being kids, sorry for his problems.....No return address. if he's going along and things improve, I'd do nothing (except hide).

This is as far as I'd go.
And if he passes away from this (good likelihood) a simple card to the parents "sorry for your loss".

Now, if you later hear...he healed and changed his life and would like to apologize to anyone he ever offended. Then, you could go receive an apology and see if he really is changed. Stranger things have happened.

[Ultralight]

And if he passes away from this (good likelihood)...

Apparently he came out of the coma and is awake and talking. So who knows, maybe he is past the worst of it and is likely to survive. But people with addictions -- especially the bad ones like alcohol just never seem to be able to kick.

This has always been very frightening to me, which is why I am teetotal or sXe, or what-have-you.

But I also have the moments where I just cannot understand what is going on in the mind of an addict, like an alcoholic or a pill head. Like: "How can you let this happen?" or "Why did you even start down this path?"

[freshstart]

But I also have the moments where I just cannot understand what is going on in the mind of an addict, like an alcoholic or a pill head. Like: "How can you let this happen?" or "Why did you even start down this path?"

it's hard to understand and the only way I do is if I stick to thinking alcoholism is a disease. A disease some people can control and many who cannot. If I start thinking, why do you keep doing this? I lose the ability to be empathetic, I blame or judge them, want to yell 'you just came out of a very good rehab 2 days ago and you are drunk already?' I am able to deal with these people at work just fine, family or friends? I struggle, I get angry, especially if they have kids.

I hope his progress is very slow medically so he can stay dry quite a long time, but most hospitals can dry you out yet not have the facilities for a true rehab. So I hope he goes to rehab and really opens his eyes. It sounds like he has used quite a few of his nine lives.

I cannot imagine a town of 238, hard to have a private life there, I would imagine.

ITA with Float On.

[Ultralight]

it's hard to understand and the only way I do is if I stick to thinking alcoholism is a disease. A disease some people can control and many who cannot. If I start thinking, why do you keep doing this? I lose the ability to be empathetic, I blame or judge them, want to yell 'you just came out of a very good rehab 2 days ago and you are drunk already?' I am able to deal with these people at work just fine, family or friends? I struggle, I get angry, especially if they have kids.

I hope his progress is very slow medically so he can stay dry quite a long time, but most hospitals can dry you out yet not have the facilities for a true rehab. So I hope he goes to rehab and really opens his eyes. It sounds like he has used quite a few of his nine lives.

I cannot imagine a town of 238, hard to have a private life there, I would imagine.

ITA with Float On.

In "238town" he did not have much of a private life. Some folks kept right on drinking with him.

Other folks would judge him and come down on him for drinking. So he took to drinking alone a lot. He'd drive to a nearby town, buy a bunch of brews, and then get drunk on the way home or park on the outskirts of town and drink. People's find a mountain empty cans here and there and know it was him drinking alone. But much of his family was in denial, not drinking with him much but not calling him out much either.

[organictex]

I remember Madonna stated, after she was accused of leaving her friends behind, that
anyone worth bringing along she did. I also had to leave a good friend behind as he was
racist as well. When he asked me if I was studying "Ebonics" in college, that was the last
straw...

[Ultralight]

The old friend is making a full recovery. Now as for rehab... who knows if he will go...

[freshstart]

good for him, now you don't have to decide about sending a card with no return address on it.

this "friendship" is pointless and possibly dangerous, you can avoid him and feel no guilt. But if I was on the fence about it, not going to rehab would be the deal breaker