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Thread: Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline!

  1. #31
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Ill tell you what.....you get Texas on board with this and Iíll consider rethinking lifestyle factors. You get China and India on board.....and I might even try it a Little myself.
    Isn't that like standing on a limb that is ready to break and you say "I'll get off the limb when the guy next to me does." Doesn't your getting of the limb save you and maybe the other clueless people still on the limb, too? I don't get the logic. My DH has similar logic. If everyone is looting, does that make it OK for you to loot?

    Someone has to be the one to lead people into the future by their example.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanne View Post
    Germany is steeply increasing investment in geothermal energy. There are other sources than wind and solar. However, thereís no escaping the need for more efficient usage. As others have already said, retrofit buildings and design new ones for passive efficiency. Rethink lifestyle factors. And letís address the automobile problem! I know 4-people families who run 5 cars- one for each person plus a family vehicle. Note, every car is an SUV, each capable of holding all 4 people plus shopping of luggage! Their argument is that they donít all follow the same schedule. I stilll donít see the need for the 5th vehicle.
    whats the problem with owning several vehicles? They wonít all be driven at the same time to the same place will they. Maybe the family SUV is equipped differently or the individual cars have everyoneís personal stuff in them.

  3. #33
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    [QUOTE]whats the problem with owning several vehicles?[/QUOTE
    Of course that's a personal choice but multiply our choices by millions...
    Most of my neighbors, friends, relatives have multiple cars - the extras sit in the driveway.
    We are learning to get by with one and it has been very freeing. Kind of like decluttering. Lots of money saved too for those of us to whom that matters.
    All of our ways of living deserve some thought as our population increases. Besides, it is fun to imagine new ways of doing things that are better for the environment.
    I always kid DH that until "the old men" let go of their old ideas, nothing will change.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I was trying to refresh my memory on an article and just googled, future of car ownership in the US. There were several recent articles in places like Forbes and the WSJ predicting giant declines in car ownership and total miles driven in the next 15 years. I've lost track of the places proposing to regulate or eliminate the sales of gas autos, but it's seemed include nations like France, China, Germany, and even California. I don't think it will be too long before attitudes about car ownership will be much different.

  5. #35
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    whats the problem with owning several vehicles? They won’t all be driven at the same time to the same place will they. Maybe the family SUV is equipped differently or the individual cars have everyone’s personal stuff in them.
    We have 6 vehicles at the moment. 3 drivers, but one of them only drives for 3 months a year. Total combined mileage for the family during the year is < 8k miles I believe.

    o Subaru Outback - main 4-person car for getting around the island/hauling the dog/bad weather
    o Mini Cooper - the normal 1-person errand vehicle. Dog not allowed
    o Dodge Hellcat, Charger - comfortable 4-door sedan for long road trips. > 700 HP, does 10 second 1/4 miles. (I hate flying....in commercial airplanes...)
    o Hummer H1 - my main rescue response vehicle, or for towing Really Big Things. Seats 4, sort of, but really best for 2, as it is so packed with equipment.
    o Porsche 911C4S - for long road trips where 4 passenger comfort/cargo capacity isn't an issue
    o BMW Z3 convertible, supercharged - it's my virtual motorcycle replacement, stupid fast, handles well, especially on little roads like ours

    I am sequestering carbon by owning these - if someone else had them, they'd drive them more, and that would be bad for the planet! Some of these vehicles are nearly 20 years old at this point.

  6. #36
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    PT: I am with you that having so many vehicles is ridiculous. WE have 2 cars and when one dies we will probably just use 1 because with Uber and living in town there is no need for more. Plus with being semi-retired we often go together. We also walk if we are going downtown.

  7. #37
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I don't mind people having a lot of cars, especially if the total mileage, like bae's, is low. What difference does it make? Collecting cars might be a big "gazingus pin" but whatever floats your boat.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to when more people are choosing alternative energy cars for their first car, second car, third car, and fourth car.

    As for me, my Prius is 10 years old and going strong. Maybe some day I'll buy a car to replace it, and I'm sure it won't be a fossil fuel vehicle. Probably electric. By then the infrastructure will be set up for them. I noticed that Newark Airport's parking deck already has bays for electric vehicles.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    If people think their auto carbon footprint is important, they have to look at life cycle from manufacture to disposal. In most cases, more cars driven the same mileage as a single car will have a bigger footprint. I have friends who travel often and buy carbon credits to offset travel, which isn't a perfect offset. It's not one thing or another, but an entire package of consumption.

    A number of strong climate change advocates don't seem to place their personal carbon foot print high on the scale of priorities. Maybe the concept is that government or regulation is the solution.

  9. #39
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    If people think their auto carbon footprint is important, they have to look at life cycle from manufacture to disposal.
    Last time I looked, the full-cycle carbon footprint of a vehicle had a large (~50% or more) portion attributable simply to the initial manufacturing costs. Which makes a certain amount of sense, if you look at what has to go on to produce all that steel/aluminum/carbon fiber.

    One concern I've had with the electric vehicles is that battery production is pretty painful on the environment.

    There's no free lunch really.

    A number of strong climate change advocates don't seem to place their personal carbon foot print high on the scale of priorities. Maybe the concept is that government or regulation is the solution.
    I've talked to some who feel the whole problem is so large and systemic that no amount of personal hairshirt-wearing will veer us from what they see as the current course. And so their efforts are best spent lobbying/working at a higher level of engagement, instead of hand-sorting their recycleables.

    Me, I don't buy carbon credits. I buy forests, and don't cut them down.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Me, I don't buy carbon credits. I buy forests, and don't cut them down.
    Probably not an option for many. Have you considered a conservation easement.

    Some of what I do on a personal scale is probably in the feel good realm and seems right, which overcomes some pain much of the pain from the horse hair effect. Most people will probably make choices based on social norms, convenience, and economics until those change, and that's a long road to hoe for entire societies.

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