Anyone thinking of eating a plant-based diet

[Ultralight]

Have no interest. Been there, done that.

Just a thought:

Why only cite studies that affirm your biases? Why not explore some that refute your biases?

[JaneV2.0]

I've explored both sides at length. As I've mentioned repeatedly, I was a vegetarian for years, and am familiar with all the vegan/vegetarian literature. I'll leave disseminating it here to others.

[awakenedsoul]

awakenedsoul - I wonder what your surgeon meant by vegetarians don't do well. Hmmmm. Do you have any idea? Curios.

Hi kally, Sorry, I didn't see this post until now. Some people experience a lot of blood loss during hip replacement surgery. My surgeon told me that if there wasn't too much blood loss, he could do the second hip right after the first. That way I would only have one hospital stay, one time under anesthesia, and one recovery period. They recycle your blood and give it back to you. (Well, my surgeon does.) Some people need a blood transfusion. Fortunately, I didn't.

Like lessisbest said, it does take a tremendous amount of protein to heal from major surgery. The muscles, tendons, and soft tissue all have to mend. I took his advice, and his fellow told me that my iron levels were very good after the surgery, higher than most people who just had one hip done. He seemed pleased.

I've kept up with eating well, and am amazed at how quickly I've healed. I had lost a lot of muscle mass in my thighs last year, and that has returned. So, I try to eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, but do have a moderate amount of meat, fish, and chicken.

I want to start making things like split pea soup again.

[Suzanne]

Personal biochemistry has to be taken into consideration when diet is considered, as shown, yet again, by this recent study: https://www.wddty.com/magazine/2016/...-all-diet.html.

Mark Sisson does a nice overview of the interaction of genetic inheritance and food: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-d...#axzz3wzmGbDlh

I was very interested by Dr. Michael Greger's Youtube presentation (vegan nutritionist and activist). Dr. Greger carried out an intensive survey of the most recent literature, in response to Jay Dinshah's death from heart attack, and found that there were only two significant differences between vegans and omnivores: vegans were at twice the risk of degenerative disorders, and experienced twice as many hip fractures. This doesn't mean that vegans can't be healthy, as he points out - they just have to work harder. There's some useful stuff in this presentation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFWstlfDRk

However, Dr. Greger makes the same mistake as other idealogues at any point on the dietary spectrum: he fails to take individual biochemistry into account. Many people simply can't convert ALA into DHA and EPA at significant rates; we can eat flaxseeds by the cupful and still have omega-3 deficiencies. There are people who need heme iron. There are people who, probably because of ancestral diets providing very high amounts of vitamin D, don't synthesize it efficiently through sunlight. Some people are allergic to fructose. Others lack sucrase. There's a sizeable number of people who can't eat nuts or legumes. Hypoglycaemics need to avoid highly starchy and sugary items, whether potatoes or grapes.

Dr. Greger is also mistaken in saying that all transfats are deadly and that they are found only in animal fats. The naturally-occurring transfats, like CLA, are actually protective against inflammation and degenerative diseases. Mushrooms contain some transfats. The deadly versions are those produced in the industrial manufacture of seed oils.

[Greg44]

I have been vegetarian since 2000. Have eaten meat only 3 times - 2 times during the first few months and once a few years ago. I try to eat a 100% plant based diet - some days I do really well, other not so good. It usually comes down to planning.

When I eat a whole food, plant based diet - I feel great, I feel clean, I am not bloated and full of energy.

I became a vegetarian due to the health issues in my family, stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, arthritis, etc. The first thing I noticed when I follow a low fat plant based diet is that my arthritis pain left my hands. I still have stiffness, but not the pain. My hands use to hurt so bad when I went to bed - had to take Advil to go to sleep.

I take only Vitamin B12, try to get as much sunshine as possible rather than take vitamin D. I rarely get sick. For me it works.

[kally]

For me it totally works, but I had to learn how to eat a whole food plant based diet. It doesn't come overnight.

[Williamsmith]

I am interested in an increased plant based diet but I am afraid a lifetime of concentrated meat, dairy and carbohydrate diet is a bad habit to break and without very dedicated and well informed guidance the solution can be a tangent that is no better then the current status quo.

My family was very adept at surviving on garden produce taught to them by Great Depression experiences but these skills have been lost or diminished by the fast food industry and proliferation of restaurants.

A shame really, all those years toiling as a child in my grandfathers garden, hoeing between the rows and hand watering tomatoes, peppers, onions.........I remember fondly now. I still have a few of his tools and I can see him sitting by the garden in the shade, hoe in hand watching over his plants like a lifeguard watches over kids at the pool. There is a satisfaction in picking vegetables or fruit from your own plants. I never found the same feeling when having to kill a rabbit or chicken to provide a meal. Just a resigned feeling of a job that had to be done.

[SteveinMN]

I am afraid a lifetime of concentrated meat, dairy and carbohydrate diet is a bad habit to break and without very dedicated and well informed guidance the solution can be a tangent that is no better then the current status quo.

Certainly science confirms that improper nutrition (animal- or plant-based) causes any number of health issues (just different ones). But it is possible to break the meat/dairy/carbs habit if it's approached a little at a time. There was a time when I thought a meal was incomplete if it did not put meat/poultry/fish front-and-center. I still probably eat more protein than I need nutritionally. But over years, I managed to both reduce the amound of animal protein I eat per portion and to convince myself that a meal does not have to have animal protein in it for me to be satisfied. Now the thought of visiting a restaurant for, say, a 24-ounce sirloin has utterly no appeal to me.

Similarly, I used to love potatoes in just about any form -- baked, chips, fries, loaded with cheese, ... Now I eat very few white potatoes in any form. Over the years I just got used to eating them less frequently. It helped that I didn't like the way I felt after binging on potatoes (and the associated oil, cheese, etc.).

But it took years of gradually reducing portion sizes from, say, half a chicken or six wings or such to a thigh or half a chicken breast or three wings. I replaced cookies and cake with snack chips before I shook them pretty much altogether. It's only in looking back at how things were that I can see how far I've progressed.

[catherine]

Certainly science confirms that improper nutrition (animal- or plant-based) causes any number of health issues (just different ones). But it is possible to break the meat/dairy/carbs habit if it's approached a little at a time. There was a time when I thought a meal was incomplete if it did not put meat/poultry/fish front-and-center. I still probably eat more protein than I need nutritionally. But over years, I managed to both reduce the amound of animal protein I eat per portion and to convince myself that a meal does not have to have animal protein in it for me to be satisfied. Now the thought of visiting a restaurant for, say, a 24-ounce sirloin has utterly no appeal to me.

Similarly, I used to love potatoes in just about any form -- baked, chips, fries, loaded with cheese, ... Now I eat very few white potatoes in any form. Over the years I just got used to eating them less frequently. It helped that I didn't like the way I felt after binging on potatoes (and the associated oil, cheese, etc.).

But it took years of gradually reducing portion sizes from, say, half a chicken or six wings or such to a thigh or half a chicken breast or three wings. I replaced cookies and cake with snack chips before I shook them pretty much altogether. It's only in looking back at how things were that I can see how far I've progressed.

I agree with the "leaning in" method of changing dietary habits, and I also believe change is possible. I went from a typical Anglo diet of meat and potatoes and loving roast beef, French dip, corned beef and cabbage more than any other food to becoming a lacto-ovo vegetarian without white-knuckling it, simply by just backing off of things a little at a time. I decided I wanted to eat less meat, so I decided to eat meat at only one meal a day. Then, I decided to always opt for the non-meat choice when it was convenient, and then, months later, I went all in.

I've given up a lot of sweets that way, and most recently, simple carbohydrates. And yes, there are things left to eat--things I really enjoy. Interestingly, your palate will help you out if you let it. I used to really hate nuts of all kinds, as well as beans. Over time, with my vegetarian diet, I suddenly found myself enjoying nuts, and I eat them for snacks all the time.

So, be patient and strategic, and remember why you are doing this.